How can I stop putting the focus on women?

[BoostedArrow]

Since I've started my RP/Self-Improvement-Journey I've put a lot of effort into leveling up, meaning going to the gym, dressing better, going out and getting better at socializing, collecting experiences, learning new skills, etc.

Being honest I mostly did it bc. I knew and expected it made me more attractive to women. Like ppl say I should go to the gym for myself, but looking at the progress in the mirror always made me proud, it made me smug, especially bc. I thought it made me more attractive. Which is also my main motivator.

I know most ppl would say that I shOulD dO iT fOr mYsElf, but lets be honest; as a guy I have a lot of T, I wanna fck, therefore I work towards that, I'm fueled by a desire for sex. I can't turn that off. The animal in my body doesn't see anything wrong with that. Rollo also says that it doesn't make sense to kill your libido to become more productive (or chasing "excellence"), bc. all the great minds were fueled by their sex-drive. Would sb. like Elon Musk even care about reviving the US' space efforts if he wouldn't have some sex-desire?

I realize slowly that I'm also kinda a slave to it, I think. I mean I don't do retarded **** like simping, never have, even in my worst bluepill days. But literally everything is geared towards becoming attractive. Maybe it's an ego thing, that I want to be attractive just for the sake of it.

Would that be fine if that's the case?

Tbh. if I wouldn't pursue women, I'd play videogames, that's literally the only thing I'm interested in when the thought of women is absent. (Of course gym as well, but only on a minimum level for self-maintenance.) I've also been thinking about doing some roadtrips soon when I get my drivers license, but tbh. the thought of it making me more "interesting" to women also puts some motivation into the context again. Hell, even getting the damn license was started by exactly that motivation. Bc. guys with cars are "hawt", right?

I just can't escape it. What should I do?

I only know the extremes of working to become more attractive vs. give-up completely and go kinda like MGTOW. How do I cultivate my life, my personality, my interests without considerations for women, without boycotting those efforts entirely?

A man should have a life outside the realm of women. Women are just the cherry on top. They're a complement. But what should they complement? The word "mission" gets thrown around alot. And tbh. I cringe when I read it. Like is my critical "mission" to paint canvas? Is saving dogs from the streets crucial enough to dedicate my life towards it? To only work part-time so I can dedicate more time towards this "mission"? I just don't see it. My interests change yearly, there's not enough commitment to warrant a life-long dedication. Especially bc. there's always sb. else to **** it all up.

 

[Manure Spherian]

The word "mission" gets thrown around alot. And tbh. I cringe when I read it.

So do I.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

My word is 'passion', not mission. I even use it with women, especially the ones who do these 'job interview' interrogation types. I'm not interested in your job or your possessions, I want to hear about your passions. Mainly because people without passions are boring.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Since I've started my RP/Self-Improvement-Journey I've put a lot of effort into leveling up, meaning going to the gym, dressing better, going out and getting better at socializing, collecting experiences, learning new skills, etc.

Being honest I mostly did it bc. I knew and expected it made me more attractive to women. Like ppl say I should go to the gym for myself, but looking at the progress in the mirror always made me proud, it made me smug, especially bc. I thought it made me more attractive. Which is also my main motivator.
I know most ppl would say that I shOulD dO iT fOr mYsElf

This is the whole problem with the "self improvement" grind. It's a facade, a joke, and everyone gets it wrong. Everyone is ultimately doing self improvement for others, but they delude themselves and other people into thinking they're doing it for "themselves" which is a straight up lie - ultimately people do these things for ego (and by things, I mean typical "self improvement" activities) because they feel like they're not enough. So instead of working on their real problems (developing skills, hobbies, passions, friendships, acquiring wisdom and novel experiences) they do action faking self-help nonsense, which isn't accomplishing anything, and they're left wondering why they still feel the exact same. Just admit to yourself you ARE doing these things for women, and then the cognitive dissonance will vanish. There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to get ripped because you want to be more attractive to women. And to clarify things, I set a distinction between "being fit and healthy" which can be based on a genuine desire to feel good and live long, between working out for aesthetics/vanity, most people are doing both and it's not so black and white. But when you examine many of your goals and behaviors, much of them come from ego, and there's nothing wrong with that, that's called being human.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Nothing wrong with being motivated by women. Women make life worth living.

 

[Gamisch]

I know most ppl would say that I shOulD dO iT fOr mYsElf,

With this statement you already tackled yoir own thread. You KNOW what we will say, but as eager as you are for answers simultaneously you already take the best answer down.

Let's say it like this; if you do have a woman ,you're FORCED to do "shOulD dO iT fOr mYsElf" , because the better you perform the better you'll be able to carry other people.

You say your only hobby is videogames. So you basically wanna feck and play. There's your problem. This sound like a boring existence. I can list 50 hobbies you can take on, that would enrich your life right away.

No knock on you OP. But you gotta have a critical look at yourself.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I know most ppl would say that I shOulD dO iT fOr mYsElf,

With this statement you already tackled yoir own thread. You KNOW what we will say, but as eager as you are for answers simultaneously you already take the best answer down.

Let's say it like this; if you do have a woman ,you're FORCED to do "shOulD dO iT fOr mYsElf" , because the better you perform the better you'll be able to carry other people.

You say your only hobby is videogames. So you basically wanna feck and play. There's your problem. This sound like a boring existence. I can list 50 hobbies you can take on, that would enrich your life right away.

No knock on you OP. But you gotta have a critical look at yourself.

Being exceedingly dependent on women is not good. What if a woman leaves? Then what’s a man to do? Have a mental breakdown?

I knew a guy who would go into immediate panic mode when a “relationship” ended. Several on here have gone into panic modes.

 

[MatureDJ]

True Forced Loneliness prophet "Roller" Steve Hoca took up marathoning (he, at 5'9", was a 40 year-old sub-3 marathoner). He said it did an amazing job of tamping down his sex drive.

 

[All_Kindz_Of_Gainz]

Don't feel attacked with my responses, I was you at some point in life, I know what I'm talking about.

I've put a lot of effort into leveling up, meaning going to the gym, dressing better, going out and getting better at socializing, collecting experiences, learning new skills, etc.

Yes the good old "Dancing Monkey Attraction Improvement Program", if I do all of these, I'll have women flocking over me. This is a covert contract, it will never work. However, and a big however, if you actually do it cause you believe in your heart that you want to be a better a man, it will make you very attractive. But it will take time to take the focus away from women.

I know most ppl would say that I shOulD dO iT fOr mYsElf

You're actually doing it for you, cause if the product of being attractive gets you to sleep with women, you did it for you own happiness at that moment in life.

Tbh. if I wouldn't pursue women, I'd play videogames,

Do both, not one at the expense of the other, never be 100% focused on women, this is mistake.

How do I cultivate my life, my personality, my interests without considerations for women, without boycotting those efforts entirely?

But why would you want to eliminate women from your life? Have interesting hobbies, make friends, be a friendly person, do things you like first, things that make you happy first, then have some time for women.

My interests change yearly

So? That's not a bad things, you're allow to change interests, you don't have to settle for one thing.

I just can't escape it. What should I do?

You are like a person without food, you're starving, you can't wait to get a "hot sex sandwich", don't worry, its all part of the process.

I'll tell you a story. I once had a goal, I wanted to reach six figs income, in my town is a lot of money, I was between 70k-80k, always dreaming about it, eventually I did, after I did, I realized there was nothing special about it if my spending was more than the money I earned. After being there, another company offer me $140k, which is almost 4x the median income in my area, I rejected the offer cause it was farther from my house. Eventually, you'll realize its nothing out of the extraordinary, you'll forget about it and then is when you'll be the most successful. But the first step in really internalizing it is being hungry for women is part of the process, you're one step closer.

Save this FR, so you can read it later, and realize how you were acting at that moment in life, happens to all of us, if you don't cringe at your old FR, you're not getting better.

 

[Rainrain]

To me, the way I picture it, is like let’s say you are a contractor and you are a part time student. You go to work in the morning then you study at night. You also make dinner, walk your dog, work out, sleep, etc.

Anyways, the semester is almost over, every single of your time is spent studying for your final. You are almost done at your job site and you are cramming every single second of your life trying to get as much knowledge as possible so you get a good mark.

Fast forward a little bit. You are done your exam. You get to relax, unwind, stress is gone and you want to have some fun. Then you call your friend Becky from school and you ask her what she is doing so you can go for drinks and ****. Or you call your boys to hang out and see if there are any women around to talk.

The point of dating is to have fun, laugh, relax, unwind, and do exciting activities with women. You have to enjoy socializing with women. When you are not with them you are working building yourself, studying, etc. You are a man of value and a non-needy ass.

 

[Learning Curve]

Since I've started my RP/Self-Improvement-Journey I've put a lot of effort into leveling up, meaning going to the gym, dressing better, going out and getting better at socializing, collecting experiences, learning new skills, etc.

Being honest I mostly did it bc. I knew and expected it made me more attractive to women. Like ppl say I should go to the gym for myself, but looking at the progress in the mirror always made me proud, it made me smug, especially bc. I thought it made me more attractive. Which is also my main motivator.

I know most ppl would say that I shOulD dO iT fOr mYsElf, but lets be honest; as a guy I have a lot of T, I wanna fck, therefore I work towards that, I'm fueled by a desire for sex. I can't turn that off. The animal in my body doesn't see anything wrong with that. Rollo also says that it doesn't make sense to kill your libido to become more productive (or chasing "excellence"), bc. all the great minds were fueled by their sex-drive. Would sb. like Elon Musk even care about reviving the US' space efforts if he wouldn't have some sex-desire?

I realize slowly that I'm also kinda a slave to it, I think. I mean I don't do retarded **** like simping, never have, even in my worst bluepill days. But literally everything is geared towards becoming attractive. Maybe it's an ego thing, that I want to be attractive just for the sake of it.

Would that be fine if that's the case?

Tbh. if I wouldn't pursue women, I'd play videogames, that's literally the only thing I'm interested in when the thought of women is absent. (Of course gym as well, but only on a minimum level for self-maintenance.) I've also been thinking about doing some roadtrips soon when I get my drivers license, but tbh. the thought of it making me more "interesting" to women also puts some motivation into the context again. Hell, even getting the damn license was started by exactly that motivation. Bc. guys with cars are "hawt", right?

I just can't escape it. What should I do?

I only know the extremes of working to become more attractive vs. give-up completely and go kinda like MGTOW. How do I cultivate my life, my personality, my interests without considerations for women, without boycotting those efforts entirely?

A man should have a life outside the realm of women. Women are just the cherry on top. They're a complement. But what should they complement? The word "mission" gets thrown around alot. And tbh. I cringe when I read it. Like is my critical "mission" to paint canvas? Is saving dogs from the streets crucial enough to dedicate my life towards it? To only work part-time so I can dedicate more time towards this "mission"? I just don't see it. My interests change yearly, there's not enough commitment to warrant a life-long dedication. Especially bc. there's always sb. else to **** it all up.

Your post reminds me myself ten years ago.

Everyone is searching for the hard questions in life but nobody has an answer.

Here is the thing you should consider.

Being motivated by women to do changes in your life or to stay sharp is not bad. Who says is bad? It's not black and white. It's the same thing as being motivated by money or to make money in order to have a good routine or to have energy and satisfaction for life.

Some people get motivated by different things. The problem starts to arise when your only focus is to satisfy women through your daily actions since that will remove the focus on other areas of your life.

Split your life into this different departments:

Health, Wealth and Love. Keep them all running at high speed and have them on maintenance like the cylinders in your car.

Through your motivation for women you are actually doing this without realizing it. You work out, you take care of your self so that's health. You are also socializing and learning new skills I hope potentially to increase your income. Love will come at a later stage in your life but love can be also friends and family.

Women can be a distraction as a motivation. I don't believe that this should be your core focus going forward to satisfy them.

Being focused on your self and making every department of your life work will make women attracted anyway as a side-effect.

 

[NoBiscuits]

I just can't escape it. What should I do?

Unfortunately, our hormone levels are mis-calibrated for the postmodern world. Your peak testosterone levels would have been right on schedule with marriage and children if it were not for the last 60 years of social change. The environment has changed, but the biological signals have stayed the same. So, the closest thing young men have today is sleeping around with many women. This is where this urge is coming from, ultimately.

I have some thoughts, as I (think that I) understand your dilemma.

A hot academic topic ~110 years ago was man's relationship to nature and civilization. If it's worth agreeing with sigmund freud on anything at all, then I would reluctantly agree with his stance on this. Civilization arises from man's ability to tame both his environmen and his psychological impulses - not just tame his environment. That is, a civilized man both lives in a house and keeps himself from cheating on his spouse.

A century before this debate really took off, the Transcendentalists built houses in the woods to reconnect with nature. This was a response to the unique time when rapid changes from the industrial revolution were showing their downsides - where the line between man using machine and machine using man began getting blurred. The Transcendentalists directed themselves to be more like animals in mind and spirit, while the Modernists later moved into urban apartments to behave more like humans. The Transcendentalists became mostly irrelevant over time (And why wouldn't they? They chose to opt out of civilization, afterall). Regardless, both sides saw themselves as being "more civilized" than the other.

A side note: In early America (English colony days), there woud often be converts from the European lifestyle to the Native American lifestyle, but very few in the other direction. Maintaining yourself as a civilized man is a lot of pressure. It forces you to obey abstract principles that usually lack direct / immediate consequence if disobeyed (eg. loyalty, honor, sense of duty, honesty, etc.). It's very tempting to relax and let it all hang out like the hippies did.

Anyway, if you accept the old Modernist premise on civilization, then (generally), the Manosphere and PUA scene have been making moves towards man behaving less civilized and more animal-like. It has been encouraging men to prefer obeying basic biological impulses over higher ideals. It's not a good look, so naturally, the satisfaction of these sexual impulses developed a post-hoc justification of achieveing a higher ideal (ie. "self improvement").

As you said, the sexual impulse came first and the ideal came later to justify satisfying it.

This post is very academic-heavy, but I think you can find all the deeper answers to your dilemma by diving into any of the points or arguments mentioned. These big questions should, hopefully, kill off your cognative dissonance after you've had to sit down and really think about it.

You can disagree with the various opinions after you've went soul searching. But I think the reason you're frustrated to begin with is because instead of pursuing this kind of meaningful soul searching, you're instead focused on bioligical impulses like playing entertaining video games and being attractive to women so you can get laid.
Take a break from the low-level stuff. That's my advice. Best of luck.

 

[BoostedArrow]

Don't feel attacked with my responses, I was you at some point in life, I know what I'm talking about.

I agree with most of what you wrote. Sleeping with women is sth. I want for myself. I don't care about anyone elses thoughts. But as you said I'm also "starving". I have some success, but it's not nearly enough to warrant the efforts.
It takes a lot of efforts to be somewhat attractive, but meeting single girls in my place is difficult.

However, and a big however, if you actually do it cause you believe in your heart that you want to be a better a man, it will make you very attractive. But it will take time to take the focus away from women.

Problably I want it too much. But why should I want to become better just for the sake of it? It is a covert contract indeed. I just don't know how to get out of it.

 

[NoBiscuits]

Problably I want it too much. But why should I want to become better just for the sake of it? It is a covert contract indeed. I just don't know how to get out of it.

Can you please read what I spent 50+ minutes carefully writing a personalized response to? I've answered all these question by pulling out the taproot. If you disagree, many other users gave thoughtful responses as well. I think there's already enough advice in this thread to satisfy your initial post.

 

[Bingo-Player]

Nobody is really doing anything for themselves

When a person has a breakup they start smashing the gym and talking about "levelling up " and " being the best version of me"
Because on the surface that sounds better than " I want too make my ex partner jealous or attract a new mate "

The Human mind very very rarely wants to face its reality , its why entertainment is such a big industry

Females are unfortunately one of the biggest male motivators , so its quite natural for a man to want to everything and anything he can too attract / interact with them

The art is in not directly displaying this desire / want to the rest of the world and instead hiding it with a more acceptable " Misson "

Using the Elon example

Elon didn't become the richest man in the world for the fun of it , he did it too change the rest of the worlds perception of him because he grew up a dork

Go deeper and apply a micro and macro economics theory

Micro - you chase women making them the focus of your life......you will get some women

Marco - you change your reality and world and naturally draw women to you ....... again you will no doubt get women

Same outcome....... different journey .....different story

 

[Barrister]

Agree with the takes in here.

Here is the thing though. We are wired to want to fvck women and fvck as many of them as we can. It is natural. So I wouldn't feel bad that you are proud of how you look after you bust your ass in the gym and can't wait to use that to attract women. It would be bizarre if you didn't think about how many women you can get with the six pack and instead just said "yeah, I wanted this 6 pack for ME and no other reason." We are social creatures and we want sex. Don't over-analyze it and guilt trip yourself for it.

 

[inquisitor]

Since I've started my RP/Self-Improvement-Journey I've put a lot of effort into leveling up, meaning going to the gym, dressing better, going out and getting better at socializing, collecting experiences, learning new skills, etc.

Being honest I mostly did it bc. I knew and expected it made me more attractive to women. Like ppl say I should go to the gym for myself, but looking at the progress in the mirror always made me proud, it made me smug, especially bc. I thought it made me more attractive. Which is also my main motivator.

I know most ppl would say that I shOulD dO iT fOr mYsElf, but lets be honest; as a guy I have a lot of T, I wanna fck, therefore I work towards that, I'm fueled by a desire for sex. I can't turn that off. The animal in my body doesn't see anything wrong with that. Rollo also says that it doesn't make sense to kill your libido to become more productive (or chasing "excellence"), bc. all the great minds were fueled by their sex-drive. Would sb. like Elon Musk even care about reviving the US' space efforts if he wouldn't have some sex-desire?

I realize slowly that I'm also kinda a slave to it, I think. I mean I don't do retarded **** like simping, never have, even in my worst bluepill days. But literally everything is geared towards becoming attractive. Maybe it's an ego thing, that I want to be attractive just for the sake of it.

Would that be fine if that's the case?

Tbh. if I wouldn't pursue women, I'd play videogames, that's literally the only thing I'm interested in when the thought of women is absent. (Of course gym as well, but only on a minimum level for self-maintenance.) I've also been thinking about doing some roadtrips soon when I get my drivers license, but tbh. the thought of it making me more "interesting" to women also puts some motivation into the context again. Hell, even getting the damn license was started by exactly that motivation. Bc. guys with cars are "hawt", right?

I just can't escape it. What should I do?

I only know the extremes of working to become more attractive vs. give-up completely and go kinda like MGTOW. How do I cultivate my life, my personality, my interests without considerations for women, without boycotting those efforts entirely?

A man should have a life outside the realm of women. Women are just the cherry on top. They're a complement. But what should they complement? The word "mission" gets thrown around alot. And tbh. I cringe when I read it. Like is my critical "mission" to paint canvas? Is saving dogs from the streets crucial enough to dedicate my life towards it? To only work part-time so I can dedicate more time towards this "mission"? I just don't see it. My interests change yearly, there's not enough commitment to warrant a life-long dedication. Especially bc. there's always sb. else to **** it all up.

You are asking the wrong question.
You are also confused.

Here's your real question: Do I even care about myself? Do I even care about other people? Is this how I would want to live my life until I die?

You "improve" yourself, in expectation that you will be rewarded for your nobility. Well, don't.

Accept that if you are not getting the results you want, then you are wrong. Adjust.

 

[BoostedArrow]

Can you please read what I spent 50+ minutes carefully writing a personalized response to? I've answered all these question by pulling out the taproot. If you disagree, many other users gave thoughtful responses as well. I think there's already enough advice in this thread to satisfy your initial post.

I've read it, but I don't see the connection to my problem though. I agree that we've become less "animalistic" and got, as I usually put it, more "domesticated". Society and men especially have become domesticated. And I think we should become wild again.

Your solution for me is that I should control my impulses for sexuality, play and fun. That's not wrong, but when I do that what's the next step?

You are asking the wrong question.
You are also confused.

Here's your real question: Do I even care about myself? Do I even care about other people? Is this how I would want to live my life until I die?

You "improve" yourself, in expectation that you will be rewarded for your nobility. Well, don't.

Accept that if you are not getting the results you want, then you are wrong. Adjust.

Tbh. the main reason for my crisis rn is that the very little success I've gotten with women so far doesn't warrant the efforts. I could continue grinding and hoping I'll turn it around or I'll look for other aspects, so that my eggs aren't in one basket.

You're right also about the covert contract, but I'll work towards sth. with the intent to get sth. out of it.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

Since I've started my RP/Self-Improvement-Journey I've put a lot of effort into leveling up, meaning going to the gym, dressing better, going out and getting better at socializing, collecting experiences, learning new skills, etc.

Being honest I mostly did it bc. I knew and expected it made me more attractive to women. Like ppl say I should go to the gym for myself, but looking at the progress in the mirror always made me proud, it made me smug, especially bc. I thought it made me more attractive. Which is also my main motivator.

I know most ppl would say that I shOulD dO iT fOr mYsElf, but lets be honest; as a guy I have a lot of T, I wanna fck, therefore I work towards that, I'm fueled by a desire for sex. I can't turn that off. The animal in my body doesn't see anything wrong with that. Rollo also says that it doesn't make sense to kill your libido to become more productive (or chasing "excellence"), bc. all the great minds were fueled by their sex-drive. Would sb. like Elon Musk even care about reviving the US' space efforts if he wouldn't have some sex-desire?

I realize slowly that I'm also kinda a slave to it, I think. I mean I don't do retarded **** like simping, never have, even in my worst bluepill days. But literally everything is geared towards becoming attractive. Maybe it's an ego thing, that I want to be attractive just for the sake of it.

Would that be fine if that's the case?

Tbh. if I wouldn't pursue women, I'd play videogames, that's literally the only thing I'm interested in when the thought of women is absent. (Of course gym as well, but only on a minimum level for self-maintenance.) I've also been thinking about doing some roadtrips soon when I get my drivers license, but tbh. the thought of it making me more "interesting" to women also puts some motivation into the context again. Hell, even getting the damn license was started by exactly that motivation. Bc. guys with cars are "hawt", right?

I just can't escape it. What should I do?

I only know the extremes of working to become more attractive vs. give-up completely and go kinda like MGTOW. How do I cultivate my life, my personality, my interests without considerations for women, without boycotting those efforts entirely?

A man should have a life outside the realm of women. Women are just the cherry on top. They're a complement. But what should they complement? The word "mission" gets thrown around alot. And tbh. I cringe when I read it. Like is my critical "mission" to paint canvas? Is saving dogs from the streets crucial enough to dedicate my life towards it? To only work part-time so I can dedicate more time towards this "mission"? I just don't see it. My interests change yearly, there's not enough commitment to warrant a life-long dedication. Especially bc. there's always sb. else to **** it all up.

You can’t. Stop listening to bozos saying focus on yourself. You’re in your 20s and 30s your body is primed to fvck. Enjoy the hell out of it. The biggest regrets of dying old MALES is not taking more chances with women. Don’t let that be you

 

[inquisitor]

Tbh. the main reason for my crisis rn is that the very little success I've gotten with women so far doesn't warrant the efforts. I could continue grinding and hoping I'll turn it around or I'll look for other aspects, so that my eggs aren't in one basket.

You're right also about the covert contract, but I'll work towards sth. with the intent to get sth. out of it.

You see little success with so much effort. Therefore, the effort must be wrong, or in the wrong place. Focus on meeting more women, talking to more women, and learning from those experiences instead.

You see little success with so much effort. You then follow up that statement by thinking about grinding and hoping you'll turn it around. No, don't do that. You're setting yourself up for further pain and failure. Your efforts are already wrong, now you're thinking about doubling down? Also, even if you can try that, you know less about succeeding with women than most men on this forum. Take all advice you receive with the utmost consideration.

The other aspects you're looking for include social skills, particularly talking to women, engaging with women, laughing with women, debating with women. All this won't be enough if you don't even know what you want with a particular woman at any time.

Know what you want, so you can see the target. Now aim for it, and hit it.

Also don't complain when you see, aim, and able to hit your target, then expecting something else to happen other than such target. If you do that, then your target is wrong in the first place.