This one thing equals Frame

[Cheeky_James]

DP.

 

[Divorced w 3]

ok so you are staying you are not a leader or manager of any group at work. You are an independent contractor work from home or whatever, Soooo ..,what do you know about the mechanics of leadership again?

Have you ever been an alpha type /leader of a social group then.. or do you not have any first hand experience at all about being a leader(?)

confused.
Am I missing something?
It’s not about money bro, Bill Gates is worth zillions . Afaik he ain’t no Alpha -male.

If management’s job security is dependent on keeping me from running to a competitor and taking a multi seven figure check, thereby jumping through hoops to keep me happy - who has frame?

 

[Cheeky_James]

If management’s job security is dependent on keeping me from running to a competitor and taking a multi seven figure check, thereby jumping through hoops to keep me happy - who has frame?

nice niche u got going there at work.
Oh you have a strong frame. And some power position. But that’s not leadership you are describing. Leadership means leading other people through position, influence and persuasion and most definitely, without a shadow of a doubt Manipulation. All applied to those others to follow and stay in line.
It’s winning others, and IRL it’s ‘by hook or by crook’.

that’s how in orgs, leaders are picked out and promoted up over others. Because the leaders above can see that guy has all those qualities to lead and control others.

 

[Divorced w 3]

nice niche u got going there at work.
Oh you have a strong frame. And some power position. But that’s not leadership you are describing. Leadership means leading other people through position, influence and persuasion and most definitely, without a shadow of a doubt Manipulation. All applied to those others to follow and stay in line.
It’s winning others, and IRL it’s ‘by hook or by crook’.

that’s how in orgs, leaders are picked out and promoted up over others. Because the leaders above can see that guy has all those qualities to lead and control others.

So I’ve managed to completely prove to you that frame is entirely possible from an ethical and non manipulative perspective.

I run a team of my own making. That’s leadership, and that’s also frame.

I don’t think I have anything else I need to say here.

 

[Cheeky_James]

these are the guys who think frame is calculus. It isn't.

But it is FOR THEM, lol.

We love and believe in what we invest in. All humans are like this. CheekyJames has obviously invested a great deal into PUA theory & books etc. So his ego has a tough time understanding that he's bet on the wrong horse. Hope it works out for him.

oh yeah. I read the books, I went out, and got some pretty good repeatable results. Every other weekend for about 3 years. Big results. Nice!

later on after a break I switched to this more inside out way of ‘self improvement’ ..the inner game of change work. And got stuck there for a long long time with little results to show , a whole lotta theory circling and a lot of confusion. Until I realised this self -helpy inner game stuff is based on a fallacy of an idea. - that you can ‘install’ a new belief system /attitude/frame whatever in your brain firstly and then the behaviours will magically just flow out accordingly .

which is a very shaky idea to start with and may take .. forever afaics,

The mind isn’t stupid, it looks for results to support beliefs . Especially new radically different ones.

who is the poster boy for this kind of change ? Anyone ? IRL who is the guy who went from zero to hero I can google and see this proof of his amazing results ..? Any proof?

For any average nice guy going from zero to hero picking up women and being this “Don Juan” term everyone throws around here.. it’s gonna take a big switch out of his comfort zone into new very different behaviours. So yeah it’s kinda complicated as it’s pretty much a brave new world type situation.

 

[BPH]

who is the poster boy for this kind of change ? Anyone ? IRL who is the guy who went from zero to hero I can google and see this proof of his amazing results ..? Any proof?

I mean...you can read my journal to see how I used to be at the start, compared to where I am now.

I attribute that more to cold approach and self-improvement than frame management, but it's still a positive change - being emotionally unbothered - that you can make in yourself, so I agree with @Glassguy in that regard.

 

[Cheeky_James]

I mean...you can read my journal to see how I used to be at the start, compared to where I am now.

I attribute that more to cold approach and self-improvement than frame management, but it's still a positive change - being emotionally unbothered - that you can make in yourself, so I agree with @Glassguy in that regard.

I think you’d be more the poster boy for my perspective BPH tbh.
As you said attribute more to cold approach, and getting RESULTS from that. Ie successfully picking up and banging chicks, self improvement mainly relating to your image and looks I’d imagine.
you then are proof of what I’m saying.
Results change belief systems from the outside inward. bit by bit . Until new belief systems emerge based on the experiences and results you have gotten.

>a guy doesn’t install a belief system of “I am a top basketball player “ firstly , and then continue to not get the ball through the hoop forever. The belief won’t stick.

>believing as strong as he can in this idea of himself doesn’t ‘magically’ make him arc the ball through the air perfectly into the hoop from anywhere on the court,

> the belief system grows from his bit by bit results *backwards* into a belief , a certain point where he thinks “oh I’m a pretty good basketball player” and then “ I’m an awesome basketball plauer

this is a general rule across so many areas . It’s pretty solid logic .

that’s why guys who do affirmations in the mirror don’t change belief systems and don’t get results.
They get stuck and go cuckoo. Cos what they are pouring tons of effort into doesn’t work like that !

Hence all the students of Real Social Dynamics turned into freaks and social retards. They all had great belief systems and frames installed in their heads. But got no results.
Guys like Tyler and Julien & Co all taught inner game firstly, and look at them now.

 

[BPH]

I think you’d be more the poster boy for my perspective BPH tbh.
As you said attribute more to cold approach, and getting RESULTS from that. Ie successfully picking up and banging chicks, self improvement mainly relating to your image and looks I’d imagine.
you then are proof of what I’m saying.
Results change belief systems from the outside inward. bit by bit . Until new belief systems emerge based on the experiences and results you have gotten.

>a guy doesn’t install a belief system of “I am a top basketball player “ firstly and then continue to not get the ball through the hoop,

>The belief system doesn’t magically make him arc the ball through the air perfectly into the hoop from anywhere on the court,

> the belief system grows from his results backward into a certain point where he thinks “oh I’m a pretty good basketball player”.

this is a general rule across so many areas . It’s pretty solid logic .

that’s why guys who do affirmations in the mirror don’t change belief systems and don’t get results.
They get stuck and go cuckoo. Cos what they are pouring tons of effort into doesn’t work like that !

My belief system went something like this:

• Girls don't see me how I want them to see me
• I can't control them; I can only control myself
• Improve in the areas of my life that I have control over
• Present that improved version of myself to the women I'm interested in
• Repeat

Frame comes into play through cold approach, because I'm able to be essentially immune to rejection, and emotionally unbothered. Emotional regulation, maintaining a baseline, and not being reactive.

 

[Cheeky_James]

My belief system went something like this:

• Girls don't see me how I want them to see me
• I can't control them; I can only control myself
• Improve in the areas of my life that I have control over
• Present that improved version of myself to the women I'm interested in
• Repeat

Frame comes into play through cold approach, because I'm able to be essentially immune to rejection, and emotionally unbothered. Emotional regulation, maintaining a baseline, and not being reactive.

Ok. Pretty good.
immune to rejection , emotionally unbothered, non reaction is ok.. for a while.
but rejection accumulates on the psyche,

but do you try to Win The Frame?
Are you turning No’s into Yes’ here and there..
Do you try to flip the rejection around and smash it and get a girl to comply with your pickup frame or another frame like a’ I’m Better Than You’ Frame?

if not .. why not.
Maybe you could be more Boss. IDK.

 

[BPH]

but rejection accumulates on the psyche,

Past a certain point, not really. Time between, as in dry spells, might, but I'm way past the point of quantifying the number of approaches and number of rejections/successes.

but do you try to Win The Frame?

If you're TRYING to win the frame, you don't have frame.

Here's unironically a good example from Rick & Morty: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F0fCLw0ftV4

He's had all his toxic/negative emotions sucked out of him, so here he is, having dinner with his dream girl, who then blows him off. But because he can't experience a negative emotion, he rolls with it, meets and bangs somebody else (the girl at the end of the clip).

Or this clip from Office Space where he's been hypnotized and just doesn't care:

Are you turning No’s into Yes’ here and there..
Do you try to flip the rejection around and smash it and get a girl to comply with your pickup frame or another frame like a’ I’m Better Than You’ Frame?

This is never the goal.

The goal with seduction is to capitalize on the "yes" and "maybe", not convince an uninterested woman why she should be interested. That is inherently a bad move because you are trying to prove why you're good enough for her.

 

[BeExcellent]

So I’ve managed to completely prove to you that frame is entirely possible from an ethical and non manipulative perspective.

I run a team of my own making. That’s leadership, and that’s also frame.

I don’t think I have anything else I need to say here.

Agree. And I do same. I have people who work for me, and I have financial independence already myself. I don't need to argue with an idiot about whether or not I'm a leader, lol. I'm too busy leading my businesses already FFS.

As far as the other comments, true if a guy didn't meet my standards (starting with sexual desirability whch as I have stated is my top criteria any number of times) then I tell him I'm not interested. Period. I will not waste a man's time. That's unkind.

And I never was prowling for sexual escapades either. When you can snap your fingers and can have something (like sex) immedately available? It doesn't have much value in and of itself, but it carries tremendous risk (pregnancy/sexual infections) and its not worth the risk. And then when thirsty men constantly oogle you and have desire for you, it makes you screen that much harder....every guy wants to bed hot girls, Duh.

You think hot girls don't know this? That's why hot girls have higher standards, even for Chads. And its why PUA tactics are so silly. Hot women have radar for this stuff in spades, but men cannot relate to the kind of real abundance a hot woman has so he assumes women also have a scarcity mindset...

Um. Not the good ones.

You seriously have NO idea. And neither do nerdy PUAs.

So go bang the low value girls who don't have those standards. Your faulty assumptions are entertaining, incorrect and misleading to the reader, but entertaining nevertheless.

Go start that thread....educate us by all means.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Past a certain point, not really. Time between, as in dry spells, might, but I'm way past the point of quantifying the number of approaches and number of rejections/successes.



If you're TRYING to win the frame, you don't have frame.

Here's unironically a good example from Rick & Morty: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F0fCLw0ftV4

He's had all his toxic/negative emotions sucked out of him, so here he is, having dinner with his dream girl, who then blows him off. But because he can't experience a negative emotion, he rolls with it, meets and bangs somebody else (the girl at the end of the clip).

Or this clip from Office Space where he's been hypnotized and just doesn't care:

This is never the goal.

The goal with seduction is to capitalize on the "yes" and "maybe", not convince an uninterested woman why she should be interested. That is inherently a bad move because you are trying to prove why you're good enough for her.

well all I can say is I very much disagree.
A guy has nothing to lose by trying to win a frame battle. I mean for a short time of course.
what can happen as a result ? A No remains a No?
He may get a conversion that may surprise him, and learn something new.

I’ve had some funny pickups.ones that went on like arguments the whole pickup.. all the way to the legs opening at the end.

I’ve seen some guys who are very persistent and keep going until they win. I mean, there is the term ‘frame battles’ for a reason , it’s a key part.

 

[Cheeky_James]

As far as the other comments, true if a guy didn't meet my standards (starting with sexual desirability whch as I have stated is my top criteria any number of times) then I tell him I'm not interested. Period. I will not waste a man's time. That's unkind.

Well thanks for being honest BE.
I could tell that was the case.
So for you #1 = Looks. status, sexual desirability,
which is the hard truth of mating.

So attraction for women works very similarly to attraction for men.
Step 1 - Is he or she hot or not?

so why are you giving average men advice here?
Do you tell them firstly that no amount of advice is going to help them get with a woman like you?

That it doesn’t matter what they say or do to a woman like you it’s still gonna be a NO?

Because unfortunately the average guy cannot “Learn” to be a Pretty Boy or a SexyFaced guy,
Cannot “learn” to be Taller.
Cannot “learn “ to have mad status.

That all fhe perfect belief systems in the world , perfectly installed, won’t help him succeed or break through. :-O (shocker)
That it’s all a fallacy and a crock of sh1t?

every average guy wants an equal to or hotter women, so why are you lecturing me on behavioural aspects and approach aspects when your advice won’t change their result?

this is proof that consuming such Inner Game advice is a waste of time. It won’t make a guy get better results in a bar or club,

Very good.
this is turning into a very interesting discussion now BE. Very interesting ..indeed! lol.

 

[Divorced w 3]

My belief system went something like this:

• 
  
• Improve in the areas of my life that I have control over
• Present that improved version of myself to the women I'm interested in
• Repeat

1. Makes $40k and lives in parents basement at 31 years old.
2. 
   Admits to sexual assault in his own name and is blasted on red flag websites and in a bar and thrown out.
3. 
   Repeat.

 

[Cheeky_James]

1. Makes $40k and lives in parents basement at 31 years old.
2. 
   Admits to sexual assault in his own name and is blasted on red flag websites and in a bar and thrown out.
3. 
   Repeat.

LMAO

 

[BeExcellent]

The playboys/players who could consistently talk panties off women (wthin minutes often) had the following traits:

1. Ridiculously Charming and Likable
2. Intelligent/Witty/Great at Banter
3. Exceptional Emotional Intelligence & Calibration (READ EMOTIONAL CONTROL)
4. Complete Outcome Independence (again emotional control)

The best guy at this I know personally is tall & trim but rather average looking, average success level, not famous, but he always looked mischievious and like the cat who ate the canary.....he would talk girls into blowing him or doing him in the parking lot or the loo, go back inside & do it again. Total "Thrill of the Hunt" dude. He was ridiculous. Had girls all over trying to lock him down.

I introduced him to his wife, who is hot, blonde, tall, thin, holds a PhD and speaks 8 languages. She's also 20 years younger. He hung up his player card for her & never looked back. They are very happy & two of my favorite people!

Notice that looks are nowhere on the list, but emotional control most assuredly is.

Those traits were authentic too, not an act.

 

[Cheeky_James]

The playboys/players who could consistently talk panties off women (wthin minutes often) had the following traits:

1. Ridiculously Charming and Likable
2. Intelligent/Witty/Great at Banter
3. Exceptional Emotional Intelligence & Calibration (READ EMOTIONAL CONTROL)
4. Complete Outcome Independence (again emotional control)

The best guy at this I know personally is tall & trim but rather average looking, average success level, not famous, but he always looked mischievious and like the cat who ate the canary.....he would talk girls into blowing him or doing him in the parking lot or the loo, go back inside & do it again. Total "Thrill of the Hunt" dude. He was ridiculous. Had girls all over trying to lock him down.

I introduced him to his wife, who is hot, blonde, tall, thin, holds a PhD and speaks 8 languages. She's also 20 years younger. He hung up his player card for her & never looked back. They are very happy & two of my favorite people!

Notice that looks are nowhere on the list, but emotional control most assuredly is.

mate, you are backtracking and already hung yourself in the last post when you said “ sexual desirability was step#1 criteria” for you.
It’s a Yes or No based on whether you find them ‘good looking’. LOL.

and you conviently left out Step 0 in your above summary of all playboys/players you’ve known.

step 0 - Good Looking/CuteFaced/SexyFaced/Tall + confirmed or perceived Status (ie club owner etc)

aka ‘Chad Type Guy’

step2 =the halo effect of step 0. And the guys experience

as I well know is true and so do you . So stop BSing.

I’ve rolled with players.
Coincidentally enough they all just so happened to be , what women described as ‘extemely cute’ and head turners for women.

Mad coincidence that one hey.
I’m glad you put emotional control way down that list and have come over the The Dark Side (my side) and agree it doesn’t ‘EQUAL Frame.and that’s it.’

 

[Divorced w 3]

The playboys/players who could consistently talk panties off women (wthin minutes often) had the following traits:

1. Ridiculously Charming and Likable
2. Intelligent/Witty/Great at Banter
3. Exceptional Emotional Intelligence & Calibration (READ EMOTIONAL CONTROL)
4. Complete Outcome Independence (again emotional control)

The best guy at this I know personally is tall & trim but rather average looking, average success level, not famous, but he always looked mischievious and like the cat who ate the canary.....he would talk girls into blowing him or doing him in the parking lot or the loo, go back inside & do it again. Total "Thrill of the Hunt" dude. He was ridiculous. Had girls all over trying to lock him down.

I introduced him to his wife, who is hot, blonde, tall, thin, holds a PhD and speaks 8 languages. She's also 20 years younger. He hung up his player card for her & never looked back. They are very happy & two of my favorite people!

Notice that looks are nowhere on the list, but emotional control most assuredly is.

Those traits were authentic too, not an act.

Sounds like your buddy understood Mode One well.

 

[BeExcellent]

For @Cheeky_James look. Do men have to be in touch with reality? Of course.

Of course every man would jump at the chance to be involved with Sydney Sweeny, before that Jessica Alba, before that Jennifer Lopez or Angelina Jolie, before that Cindy Crawford or Naomi Campbell or Claudia Sciffer, way before that Marilyn Monroe or Bridget Bardot and all the Playboy bunnies or Victoria's Secret or Sports Illustrated swimsuit models, right?

But that is not reality now is it? And what if they happen to be intolerable people?

There are women just as beautiful, but not famous, around. Wherever those women are, they will have essentially unlimited options. I'd say I've always had tremendous options (not unlimited but close, for sake of discussion).

And I know average looking people too.

As far as attractiveness maximize the things you can control (self improve)

1. Weight
2. Clothing/Shoes/Style
2. Grooming
4. Physical Fitness

By improving the above things within a man's control you can improve your physical presentation, which improves your first impression, which increases your positive interactions with women.

It also will help a man feel better about himself by having or developing the self discipline required to get results. That means better self confidence, which obviously helps with adjusting of mindset.

I will be happy to discuss further with you on your own thread.

Also. Stop conflating what my friends & social contacts and people I know do & what works for them with what attracts me and my rather specific criteria.

They are not the same thing. Not even remotely. You are so excited in "Gotcha" mode that you are failing reading comprehension.

Create a thread & lets discuss.

 

[Cheeky_James]

For @Cheeky_James look. Do men have to be in touch with reality? Of course.

Of course every man would jump at the chance to be involved with Sydney Sweeny, before that Jessica Alba, before that Jennifer Lopez or Angelina Jolie, before that Cindy Crawford or Naomi Campbell or Claudia Sciffer, way before that Marilyn Monroe or Bridget Bardot and all the Playboy bunnies or Victoria's Secret or Sports Illustrated swimsuit models, right?

But that is not reality now is it? And what if they happen to be intolerable people?

There are women just as beautiful, but not famous, around. Wherever those women are, they will have essentially unlimited options. I'd say I've always had tremendous options (not unlimited but close, for sake of discussion).

And I know average looking people too.

As far as attractiveness maximize the things you can control (self improve)

1. Weight
2. Clothing/Shoes/Style
2. Grooming
4. Physical Fitness

By improving the above things within a man's control you can improve your physical presentation, which improves your first impression, which increases your positive interactions with women.

It also will help a man feel better about himself by having or developing the self discipline required to get results. That means better self confidence, which obviously helps with adjusting of mindset.

I will be happy to discuss further with you on your own thread.

but we are discussing it SO well already on THIS thread BE we ‘re way into it now.

re 1-4.
1-4 is looksmaxxing which is fundamental yep.

But in approaches and interactions* a guy will get results the fastest by this step 1 of his interactions.

1. work the sh1t out of his ability to project Dominance. alpha qualities , leader vibe/Boss vibe. Which means great frame control skills.

cos that’s really really Key in sexual selection for women. Work the absolute sh1t out of that.
And it’s gonna be a very uncomfortable experience to begin with.
it’s not gonna look (or feel) pretty for the average Nice Guy.
But it’s the big switch to flip to get results and repeatability.