Why The Pandemic was the fatal blow to the average man

[Bingo-Player]

The internet and hyper connectivity allows the masses far greater exposure to trends and narratives in society

We had a 5 year period between around 2018 and 2023 where women basically had every ace in the deck when it came to dating , APP use during the pandemic went into overdrive and men around the world were falling over themselves to try and get laid

This lead to an absolute explosion in viral social media content calling out both sexes for poor behaviours

Men having no game / charm and being too desperate

Women having unrealistic standards generally spawned by far too much male attention

Its very easy for both genders to get sucked into these narratives and radicalised against the opposite often becoming hostile in the process

The issue is for men most women aren't going to make the first move so a man has to put his balls on the line to make the approach but where as women in past generations could gracefully deal with unwanted approaches

Modern women are not so capable and often end up either being rude or completely unresponsive

With that being said from what I have seen in IRL modern men are severely lacking the emotional / social skills needed to interact and connect with a modern woman

It is a mess but I think if you have any experience with women in real life you can quickly become very popular with them.

 

[BaronOfHair]

With that being said from what I have seen in IRL modern men are severely lacking the emotional / social skills needed to interact and connect with a modern woman

David DeAngelo and his predecessors observed that problems with the ladies are really just symptomatic of difficulties being social more generally. All that's changed today? We've got far more methods of retreating from reality than TV and AOL Chatrooms than was the case when all those fellas were writing

 

[SW15]

David DeAngelo and his predecessors observed that problems with the ladies are really just symptomatic of difficulties being social more generally. All that's changed today? We've got far more methods of retreating from reality than TV and AOL Chatrooms than was the case when all those fellas were writing

I was reading David DeAngelo in the early to mid 2000s when I was in college. He made good points. "Attraction Isn't a Choice" was his most famous statement about female attraction towards males. It was about connecting emotionally with women.

Technology was already beginning to negatively affect social skills when I was in college. People were sending instant messages as the precursor to texting on cellular phones.

In thinking about the early to mid 2000s mating scene, the lack of dating apps and less acceptance of dating websites changed the mating environment. During that time, I was in a mating scene bubble on a college campus. In order to meet people in that era, I had essentially no choice but to do things in real life.

For the last 15 years or so, it has been far more common to start interactions using technology than starting them in real life. I think that's been a negative for average tier men.

 

[BaronOfHair]

For the last 15 years or so, it has been far more common to start interactions using technology than starting them in real life. I think that's been a negative for average tier men.

Great news here being that no one's pressing a loaded Sig Sauer to our skulls, then forcing us to do what you describe, upon pain of death. We can choose to interact with one another out in reality more than we do via technology

 

[Manure Spherian]

So now, the cream rises to the top, but the problem is massively amplified.

I thought “the bar is slow these days, all ya gotta do is show up!”

 

[Divorced w 3]

Having separated from my marriage in early 2022, I can only speak to that situation, as a then 37 year old man with three children, but I can say, in the times I was operating in the dating market attentively, the apps always resulted in sex (not that i was a massive user, and i got catfished once and out of complete sympathy i hung with her for a bit - and she tried to hook up again on a diff app lol!), and once i got my short-term game down (openers, flirt, get the number), i had no issue there either, i was very successful, and my early posts here show that too (chat posts and photos, pikers).

i will also tell you this guys, i was fighting a really expensive, nasty divorce and funds were limited, so keep that in mind too - i'm talking like, not buying women drinks at the bar, straight to the house for sex on the app, eating eggs for breakfast lunch and dinner for most of the meals for a year, so don't chalk it up to spending a lot of money.

i was running 10 hard 50 yard sprints a day, pushups and situps, and i went to the bar / out in jeans and a backwards hat, nothing exciting, i was in great shape, 6’4, 34 -36 inch waist, somewhat balding on back of head, and i had excellent social/situational awareness/attitude, but it's certainly not rocket science. I always went out socially with a wing, the same one, my good friend from childhood. We played off amazing together. Oh and I wasn’t drinking!

so speaking just from that angle, i think men are in a really good spot, i mean look, if a guy in my position can get women that were all younger, typically but not always 5-10 years younger, fit and attractive - there is no excuse whatsoever for guys younger than me to be flailing out

moral of the story I got almost all this tact from this website, which served as a huge refresher and got me up to speed super quick

 

[MatureDJ]

Real-life social spots are full of women
Bars, gyms, and clubs are mostly filled with women now, and they are pretty receptive to being approached. Some women are getting aggressive about it. A jogger literally asked me out while I was walking my dog yesterday. The demand for stable, decent men is obviously high right now.

I had totally given up on American women, but next time I'm back, I'll to check out the scene.

I had only had a chick do day-game on me, when I was filling up my tank after a day of skiing when I was living in a certain man-camp type of big city; I was totally not expecting it, but she seemed to be a little off in the face, so I had concluded that she must have been a tranny.

 

[MatureDJ]

... in the times I was operating in the dating market attentively, the apps always resulted in sex ...

... i'm talking like, not buying women drinks at the bar, straight to the house for sex on the app, eating eggs for breakfast lunch and dinner for most of the meals for a year, so don't chalk it up to spending a lot of money.

i was ... 6’4

To paraphrase Yoda, "this is why you succeed".

 

[MatureDJ]

During the 2000s-2010s, the dinner date in a restaurant in the early stages seemed to fade a little bit. However, there were still (and still are today in the 2020s) plenty of beta males who will offer a woman a dinner date in a restaurant as a first date. These betas will even offer women from swipe apps these dinner dates.

I had been locked out of dating childless American women by the mid-90s , but up until then, I would always take a chick out to dinner to a casual, local place (think of an authentic Red Lobster, Chili's, etc.), and not spend any more than about $35 for dinner & drinks (prices for the times). There was only one time when the chick wasn't really interested in me; OK, there was a chick from my elementary school who also wasn't interested, but I had always considered her hot , and it was worth it to scratch that itch (at the time, she was looking to become a stewardess on USA-France flights, so I am sure I would have had the sheet mogged out of me, not unlike our friend Raphael).

 

[Divorced w 3]

To paraphrase Yoda, "this is why you succeed".

That’s all you gathered from that? This website did far more for me than my height did.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I had been locked out of dating childless American women by the mid-90s ...

Given that

-Your mating life and Joe Rogan's comedy career began stagnating at roughly the same time

-Each has gone nowhere but further down the sh-t-er, over the course of all these decades

Have you considered starting a podcast, MDJ? Not even kidding here: With such a record, chances are high that you'll end up extremely popular

 

[SW15]

I had been locked out of dating childless American women by the mid-90s , but up until then, I would always take a chick out to dinner to a casual, local place (think of an authentic Red Lobster, Chili's, etc.), and not spend any more than about $35 for dinner & drinks (prices for the times).

I don't think dinner dates in the late 1980s/early 1990s were as bad as 2000-present but I can't be sure since I never dated in that time period.

I did some dinner date in restaurant first dates prior to turning 21 and in my 20s. By the time that I was doing them, it wasn't a good idea.

In thinking back on my dinner dates prior to turning 21, I can excuse those because I wasn't eligible to go to bars yet. However, I should have been more creative even then with date planning.

I think your dinner date costs were reasonable for that time period. Tom Leykis created the $40 date rule in the late 1990s, meaning to keep date costs below $40. With inflation, Leykis' date cost rule would be around $70-$75 now.

I bet you had a lot of failed $35 first dates in those days. Those failed dates add up in terms of costs. That's like having a $60 failed date now. I wouldn't recommend that.

 

[MatureDJ]

I don't think dinner dates in the late 1980s/early 1990s were as bad as 2000-present but I can't be sure since I never dated in that time period.

I did some dinner date in restaurant first dates prior to turning 21 and in my 20s. By the time that I was doing them, it wasn't a good idea.

In thinking back on my dinner dates prior to turning 21, I can excuse those because I wasn't eligible to go to bars yet. However, I should have been more creative even then with date planning.

I think your dinner date costs were reasonable for that time period. Tom Leykis created the $40 date rule in the late 1990s, meaning to keep date costs below $40. With inflation, Leykis' date cost rule would be around $70-$75 now.

I bet you had a lot of failed $35 first dates in those days. Those failed dates add up in terms of costs. That's like having a $60 failed date now. I wouldn't recommend that.

I didn't have the money to wine & dine until I had a real job at age 22, LOL.

If by "failed dates", you mean our romance didn't go anywhere, including even a 2nd or 3rd date, then yes - but I don't think that during that time I encountered any "serial daters" (I did later on when I later started PassportBroMaxxing, but except for 2 obnoxious dates, it wasn't bad). I would only take a gal out to eat if we had had a good initial meeting (i.e., not a "blind date"), so it wasn't like I was into racking up phone numbers. And it didn't bother me since I liked to eat out, and it was easily affordable on my engineer's salary.

 

[MatureDJ]

That’s all you gathered from that? This website did far more for me than my height did.

OK, alter-Neo taking the Blue Pill ...

 

[SW15]

If by "failed dates", you mean our romance didn't go anywhere, including even a 2nd or 3rd date, then yes -

That's exactly what I meant by failed dates. No sex, no extended relationship.

Even though you were arranging dates off of real life approaches as compared to electronic methods or newspaper personal ads, you were not judging your prospects well because you weren't turning your first dates into 2nd and 3rd dates and relationships. Additionally, you were not getting first date sex.

The goal of a first date is to get to sex. The goal is either to get to sex on that date or some future date in the interaction.

I would only take a gal out to eat if we had had a good initial meeting (i.e., not a "blind date"), so it wasn't like I was into racking up phone numbers

You were arranging dates off of real life approaches. This was the pre-internet/very early internet era, so dating websites weren't really around at that time. There were personal ads in newspapers back then but that was more niche. Blind dates in the pre-internet era were a bad idea.

It is never a good idea to get a phone number without setting a date. Over time, too many men have been too focused on getting phone numbers. Even in the landline era of telephones, getting a phone number without a date set wasn't that good of an idea. It's been an even less good idea with pre-smartphone cellular phones and then later smartphones.

I didn't have the money to wine & dine until I had a real job at age 22, LOL.

I had dinner dates when I was in undergraduate. I wouldn't call it "wine-ing and dining". My first date not long into freshman year was a dinner date at a non-chain restaurant near campus. Later in college, I remember some regrettable chain restaurant dinners.

 

[BaronOfHair]

That's exactly what I meant by failed dates. No sex, no extended relationship.

If he were to start walking outside his front door and being social out in the wild more often, instead of posting all these "It's over for (Insert choice of Cel)" threads, that would be anything but "failure"

 

[SW15]

If he were to start walking outside his front door and being social out in the wild more often

He's early Generation X (mid-1960s birth) and he has spent a lot of time on the internet. Among people near his age, that hasn't been common behavior over time. That sort of behavior wasn't common until Millennials (starting with early to mid 1980s births) and later Generation Z.

He can claim that he was social in the wild back in the 1980s and 1990s before high speed internet was common and later mobile internet access via smartphones was common. Those were somewhat different mating environments. His below average height wasn't appealing to Gen X women in the 1980s-1990s. Millennials and Gen Z have gotten even more fussy with height than Gen X women.

Given that he is 15-20 years older than earlier Millennials, he would never have been appealing to earlier Millennials in the USA mating market.

 

[Bigpapa]

Given that he is 15-20 years older than earlier Millennials, he would never have been appealing to earlier Millennials in the USA mating market.

The reality is that most women are not appealing to most guys, unless you have extremely low standards

The reality that it is as a tough place to be being an unattractive woman as it is to be an unattractive guy

 

[SW15]

I'd say what did the most damage to men during the pandemic was the combination of OnlyFans and social media. Any moderately attractive woman with a social media following can now make an OnlyFans where she posts as much, or as little, as she'd like, and suddenly she's a millionaire.

Now she's wealthier than 95% of the men she encounters in real life, and her DMs are flooded with celebrities, athletes, and wealthy randoms offering to fly her out and bring her to lavish dinners and parties. Why would she ever bother doing something so pedestrian as going out to meet somebody in a bar or club? She's too busy trying to decide which rich dude's yacht would make for the best photo op.

While OnlyFans existed prior to the pandemic, it exploded in popularity during the pandemic.

A small percentage of women make good money using OnlyFans. The majority of women using OnlyFans do not make that much money on the platform.

Women can easily get high numbers of followers on social media platforms. I will set aside LinkedIn for a moment but there are women using their looks to get high follower counts on LinkedIn while sprinkling in business advice. I think it's more relevant to discuss Instagram and TikTok followings as those are more related to personal lives. Most women have more followers on social media than most men and that's true even if they only lightly use their bodies to attract men on social media.

On Instagram, it's not that difficult for a woman to get 1,000 - 3,000 followers. That's not enough to make money. 10,000 + followers is where monetization is more possible, but even that isn't a full time job yet. I've seen women go full time as an influencer with 20,000 - 30,000 Instagram followers. I think better money is available with 100,000 + followers, but that level is difficult to achieve.

It doesn't take that high of a follower count on Instagram for women to get some top tier men in their DMs. I think it is happening to women with at least 5,000 followers, but might even happen below that point.

If a woman's social media following is big enough, I think there is less motivation for her to randomly go out to bars to try to meet men in her city.

 

[Divorced w 3]

The reality is that most women are not appealing to most guys, unless you have extremely low standards

The reality that it is as a tough place to be being an unattractive woman as it is to be an unattractive guy

There’s truth to this imo