Why improving your looks is ineffective in the long run

[Hamurabimbi]

Here is the looks conflict that confuses the shyte out of a lot of guys:

1. Women want a guy who cares about his looks.

2. Women also want a guy who DGAF about his looks and just owns it.

It is a double message for sure.

TLDR: “Make sure you meet her looks standard, and make sure you simultaneously DGAF whether you meet it or not because that is ‘confidence’ lol.”

This.
I was working at a client location. One of the girls that worked there came up to me and said: ‘You probably don’t care what people think about you. But, you’re really good looking.’

 

[Hamurabimbi]

How did it go

Lasted a few months.
As one of my friends observed: ‘You’re like a cup of warm milk and she’s a shot of Jager.’

 

[CornbreadFed]

Lasted a few months.
As one of my friends observed: ‘You’re like a cup of warm milk and she’s a shot of Jager.’

sounds about right lol

 

[BaronOfHair]

Here is the looks conflict that confuses the shyte out of a lot of guys:

1. Women want a guy who cares about his looks.

2. Women also want a guy who DGAF about his looks and just owns it.

It is a double message for sure.

TLDR: “Make sure you meet her looks standard, and make sure you simultaneously DGAF whether you meet it or not because that is ‘confidence’ lol.”

Ultimately, a man is conscientious about his appearance for HIMSELF, first and foremost, NOT for women. One's morale and self-concept go to sh-t, when he's bedraggled and street urchurin-esque

 

[Gamisch]

Most guys get a girl(s). Most guys will figure out why they got a girl(s). It behooves them to capitalize on that. For some. It may be Looks. If so, focusing on nurturing, cultivating & exploiting that advantage makes sense and it isn’t insecurity.

Here is the looks conflict that confuses the shyte out of a lot of guys:

1. Women want a guy who cares about his looks.

2. Women also want a guy who DGAF about his looks and just owns it.

It is a double message for sure.

TLDR: “Make sure you meet her looks standard, and make sure you simultaneously DGAF whether you meet it or not because that is ‘confidence’ lol.”

That's my point thank you, I had some b4ain fog coming up with an answer.

Women want you to look good ( to them) while you simultaneously make it seem like you don't care. Remember the classis song lyric" I never met a man has a mirror in pocket ".

A lot to unpack when it's about this topic. My geuss is that women know that men who carry too much about their own looks are either - sus, players, insecure, ect. But perhaps more importantly: people( both men and women) instinctively know that for a MAN his looks aren't the most important aspect. All throughout huminaty great carpenter or fisherman has always been more valuable to yhe local society than a pretty man...

 

[Mike32ct]

That's my point thank you, I had some b4ain fog coming up with an answer.

Women want you to look good ( to them) while you simultaneously make it seem like you don't care. Remember the classis song lyric" I never met a man has a mirror in pocket ".

A lot to unpack when it's about this topic. My geuss is that women know that men who carry too much about their own looks are either - sus, players, insecure, ect. But perhaps more importantly: people( both men and women) instinctively know that for a MAN his looks aren't the most important aspect. All throughout huminaty great carpenter or fisherman has always been more valuable to yhe local society than a pretty man...

That helps a lot. Thanks.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

That's my point thank you, I had some b4ain fog coming up with an answer.

Women want you to look good ( to them) while you simultaneously make it seem like you don't care. Remember the classis song lyric" I never met a man has a mirror in pocket ".

A lot to unpack when it's about this topic. My geuss is that women know that men who carry too much about their own looks are either - sus, players, insecure, ect. But perhaps more importantly: people( both men and women) instinctively know that for a MAN his looks aren't the most important aspect. All throughout huminaty great carpenter or fisherman has always been more valuable to yhe local society than a pretty man...

Interesting that the Bible, written thousands of years ago, notes that this or that man was handsome.

‘Youths in whom was no defect, who were good-looking, showing intelligence in every branch of wisdom’
Dan 1:4

‘ Now in all Israel was no one as handsome as Absalom,
2 Sam 14:25

‘ How handsome you are, my beloved,
And so pleasant!’

SoS 1:16

This isn’t to say being handsome was an end-all, be-all. But, even the Ancients, who likely had a much harder life the we today, Noted, positively, how good looking a man was. So smitten were they by looks, God had to warn them not to be swayed by a man’s looks. See King Saul.

 

[Cheeky_James]

This theory is so ridiculous.

The number 1 thing hot women look for in men is looks. OP is saying don’t do that, he INSULTS the reader, and says work on personality.

Yes men, for single mothers, for overweight women, for ugly women, for menopausal women, work on personality.

Yeah.. I think more specifically the number one thing Hot women look for is actually Dominance or Alpha qualities.
But that correlates with Looks & Status and also usually Money /Recources.
Height in men = Dominant Genes.
Facial symmetry and bone structure also. DG.
As with a super fit ripped body.
So yeah Looks firstly basically as it signals dominance straight off…but then there are tall good looking guys that are also Beta in behaviour.

I don’t believe a short guy can get in with tall chicks .. unless he is a super dominant alpha short king,
Ie He’s a Boss. And even then only a much smaller % of tall women would go for him.

I have known a couple shorter guys than me that did very well with chicks but all cute faced and super masculine/alpha very ballsy types. One such player friend of mine was amazing the stuff he did with chicks. But yeah he had a very cute /handsome face.

So yeah Looks rule tbh.
There is a guy I’m following on YT named Casey Zander who does great videos re women and womens true nature re dating and pickup, he sells courses. He has it all figured out, but the guy looks like Ryan Goslings twin brother . Only is more buff with bigger arms than Gosling. LOL. It’s funny reading comments on his videos . Guys seem to miss the elusive obvious of how good looking CZ actually is. And hence how easy it is for him to get the chicks in the first place.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Afaik It’s a double edged sword for women re the **** boys /gymbros/Chads they will go to them for sex, no doubts. But they know he won’t commit and is a waste of time beyond scratching their itch. That is true. They will usually **** those guys for a while or a string of them in their earlier years and then move on. Keeping that on the DL between them and their girlfriends.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Interesting that the Bible, written thousands of years ago, notes that this or that man was handsome.

‘Youths in whom was no defect, who were good-looking, showing intelligence in every branch of wisdom’
Dan 1:4

‘ Now in all Israel was no one as handsome as Absalom,
2 Sam 14:25

‘ How handsome you are, my beloved,
And so pleasant!’

SoS 1:16

This isn’t to say being handsome was an end-all, be-all. But, even the Ancients, who likely had a much harder life the we today, Noted, positively, how good looking a man was. So smitten were they by looks, God had to warn them not to be swayed by a man’s looks. See King Saul.

Yeah, large segments of The Manosphere have long perpetuated their own version of

, something that's been a serious malfunction within what we today call The Woke Left, since it originated during The late 1960s

Most of us, regardless of gender, can't be supermodels(Syd Sweeney herself isn't a "classic beauty" in the mold of Grace Kelly, and at 5'3, her chances of walking runways in Milan or NYC during fashion week are weaker than Chalamet's chances of passing himself off as the next Robert Mitchum anytime soon), great... That's also no excuse for not working with and accentuated what The Almighty graced us with

 

[Cheeky_James]

Yeah, large segments of The Manosphere have long perpetuated their own version of

, something that's been a serious malfunction within what we today call The Woke Left, since it originated during The late 1960s

Most of us, regardless of gender, can't be supermodels(Syd Sweeney herself isn't a "classic beauty" in the mold of Grace Kelly, and at 5'3, her chances of walking runways in Milan or NYC during fashion week are weaker than Chalamet's chances of passing himself off as the next Robert Mitchum anytime soon), great... That's also no excuse for not working with and accentuated what The Almighty graced us with

Re your last sentence absolutely.
That’s what we all ought to be doing…
But .. let’s not kid ourselves too much about how far that’ll get us . There’s still leagues and tiers when it comes to women. especially the super hot ones IRL ,comparable to Sweeney for example. She’s got the best rack & body in Hollywood arguably. Those girls get a rediculous amount of attention from tall , good looking high status males , so that being a given, the only way for a dude to stand out vs all the competition for a chick like that would be extreme uniqueness and success and achievement with that in some dimension. (Status)
To me as a guess it could feasibly be ‘intelligence’ and going with that ‘Wit.’ That hes ultra confident and verball dominant and could out -talk the other guys. But obvs he’s still have to be a fairly sexy guy. I’m trying to think of examples of this in the Hollywood crowd.. but can’t think of many tbh.

Russell brand and Liev Scribner come to mind as known for intelligence. both Tall guys though and also handsome.

Jack Nicholson definitely, he’s got that mega sexy smile tho, (unique)
Dudes in rock bands probably and other areas of the arts. Usually tall too but.

Actually is there anyone in Hollywood that’s a known seducer and is short ?? Can’t think of anyone .

 

[Cheeky_James]

I just googled that and got the AI generated list
This is in line what I mentioned earlier about shorter guys I’ve known IRL having great success with chicks but also being ‘cute faced’ (and also having a rapier Wit)

Google search : known seducers in hollywood that are short guys


AI Overview
While there is no definitive list of "seducers," many shorter actors have cultivated strong public images and have been known for their romantic or charismatic roles, including Al Pacino (5'7"), Tom Cruise (5'7"), Rami Malek(5'7"), James McAvoy (5'7"), Dave Franco (5'7"), Tom Holland (5'8"), Robert Downey Jr. (5'8"), Mark Ruffalo (5'8"), and Zac Efron (5'8")..

Not of these guys are seducers IRL afaik.
Downey Jr definitely and Efron too ( pretty boys)

 

[Cheeky_James]

Good news , there’s a few uglies on this list

The Top Seducers of All Time

The death of Hugh Hefner in 2017, got us pondering over the meaning and implications of his departure. Is it the end of an era? The end of the golden Playboy era. Perhaps even the end of the archetype of the great seducer? Who these days will dare wander around accompanied by a harem of three...

truetribe.paris

Looks like Casanova was the Frank Abagnale Jr of his day. And Serge Gainsbourg too another interesting one.

I think it comes down to this - if you are not tall and good looking, you better be very very very good with your tongue. Like .. a poet level good or stand up comedian level rapier wit with the ability to roast everyone. Like Harland Williams or Jeffry Ross. Jeffry Ross is savage . A short ugly guy. Not sure how he does with the ladies. Probably pretty good I’d bet. He’d win them over with his tongue.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Actually is there anyone in Hollywood that’s a known seducer and is short ??

David Spade, for starters. J..Nicholson is reportedly 5'7. And I agree that looks aren't everything: Never implies that they were

 

[Cheeky_James]

David Spade, for starters. J..Nicholson is reportedly 5'7. And I agree that looks aren't everything: Never implies that they were

yes and this goes in line with my last post above and previous post. If a guy is short , he better have a Rapier Wit(like Spade) or something unique to compensate and differentiate himself from the competition.

Spade is verbally dominant, put him in a room with a bunch of guys he’ll probably roast them all.

Jack N has a very unique sexy devilish smile for example . And is known to be one of the most sexual and charismatic seducers.

I’ve studied this Wit thing a lot.
Other stand up comics that have it are Norm MacDonald (one of the GOATs), Jeff Ross. And Harland Williams (1000%) among others such as Russell Brand. Williams especially is one of my favourites . He’s savage and quick as lightning. It’s a very attractive thing to women that as it’s intelligence and social dominance.

Pickup gurus who have it are Brent Smith (But also Tall and very good looking)
Rick H (short but super ****y) and a few others.
Mystery I suppose although it was all rehearsed ( also Tall and handsome).

it’s the #1 trait across the board to my understanding. Ultra confidence I suppose it’s also called.

I reread the OP and get what he’s saying more now . For me for example I have to just get my fashion and style sorted atm . Probably binning my whole wardrobe and after that is social dominance in the field with women I must cultivate (imo) so yeah gym-maxing not so much. I just need to be toned up and slim and I’ll do well.

 

[BaronOfHair]

yes and this goes in line with my last post above and previous post. If a guy is short , he better have a Rapier Wit(like Spade) or something unique to compensate and differentiate himself from the competition.

Spade is verbally dominant, put him in a room with a bunch of guys he’ll probably roast them all.

Jack N has a very unique sexy devilish smile for example . And is known to be one of the most sexual and charismatic seducers.

I’ve studied this Wit thing a lot.
Other stand up comics that have it are Norm MacDonald (one of the GOATs), Jeff Ross. And Harland Williams (1000%) among others such as Russell Brand. Williams especially is one of my favourites . He’s savage and quick as lightning. It’s a very attractive thing to women that as it’s intelligence and social dominance.

Pickup gurus who have it are Brent Smith (But also Tall and very good looking)
Rick H (short but super ****y) and a few others.
Mystery I suppose although it was all rehearsed ( also Tall and handsome).

it’s the #1 trait across the board to my understanding. Ultra confidence I suppose it’s also called.

I reread the OP and get what he’s saying more now . For me for example I have to just get my fashion and style sorted atm . Probably binning my whole wardrobe and after that is social dominance in the field with women I must cultivate (imo) so yeah gym-maxing not so much. I just need to be toned up and slim and I’ll do well.

Reminiscent of a conversation had here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/the-velocity-of-chad.284364/

Even handsome guys and beautiful women have physical flaws, and ultimately have to demonstrate that they're something more than yet another flavor of the week

For every Brando, Olyphant, Fassbender, Elba, Theo James, Val Kilmer, James Mason(PBUH the latter two)etc who turn out to have shi-loads of talent to go with their physical charms, there are billions more Casper Van Diens, Andrew Keegans, Tom Wellings, and whoever played the male kids on 7th Heaven. I.E. Abercrombie and Fitch looking fellas, who faded five minutes after they appeared

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Reminiscent of a conversation had here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/the-velocity-of-chad.284364/

Even handsome guys and beautiful women have physical flaws, and ultimately have to demonstrate that they're something more than yet another flavor of the week

People aren’t actively testing other people. Most people are caught up in their own lives. Good looking people get a halo. Partly because looking at an attractive person gives one a dopamine spike. People want to assume the best about attractive people. The only time an attractive person might get negative feedback is if said person were viewed as poaching on someone’s girl/guy.

 

[BaronOfHair]

People aren’t actively testing other people

We don't often CONSCIOUSLY test one another. Big difference

 

[SW15]

TLDR: Looksmaxing can help but it is not the most effective way to become more attractive. Yes, you should go to the gym and take care of your appearance but that is only the beginning.

The real problem for many men is broken confidence and an unattractive personality. You cannot fix that with muscles or a new haircut. For some, the answer is not another workout plan but therapy, moving to a new city, focusing on women that find your type attractive instead of trying to become this magical skeleton key, or making a big change in life.

This is not a simple issue like a cold or infection. It is more like latent tuberculosis. It stays inside you, slowly harming you over time. If you ignore it, it will keep consuming you from within.

Attraction and seduction is the combination of looks, money, status, and personality. I have promoted the idea that looks is the most important of those variables.

When a man improves his looks, he becomes less likely to get initially rejected and less likely to have sexless date interactions. In the short term, a looks improvement will help a man have better initial interactions.

Personality aspects become more relevant later in interactions. In the longer run, looks alone won't make as much of a difference, but it can help in the earlier stages of the mating dance.

 

[tksniper]

I think it's important not to confuse the trees from the forest. Looks is the trees. Attraction is the forest. You might be good looking but not her type. However your good looks could make you popular. And human beings have a greater fear of lost than a desire for gain. This is why marketing works and people spend billions on consumer items.

Your looks could make you popular and incidentally create jealousy and scarcity, which raises your status in her eyes. You getting attention from other women could pull on her heart strings. Is every pop star a 10/10? No. Some pop stars are average looking. But they have million dollar marketing teams that make sure they keep their status in the stratosphere. Look at Ed Shereen. He looks like a nerd.

It's all about status. Your looks can help elevate your status through social proof. Put a good looking guy in a room with a woman and there is no guarantee he will get laid. But surround him with more women where some are attracted to him, and he will become popular and high status to the woman who wouldn't originally choose him.