Why improving your looks is ineffective in the long run

[Vanderdonck]

I don't see why you have to choose to fix one or the other. Improve every way you can, for you. Go to the gym, eat right, but also work on your charm and confidence. Work hard at your career and level up your earnings. Have hobbies. There is no reason to focus on just one at the expense of others. Improve everywhere and approach women while you're at it. If you wait until you're ripped, rich, or bulletproof you could wait a long time.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I mean it could be a regional thing but gymbros and Fboys (who look good) are cleaning up where I live. They have their choice of the prettiest girls. I live in the same state where they shoot "Love is Blind Season 8" and you notice one of the characters named Dave was the biggest douchbag and had the nice girl chasing him the whole season even though he didn't want her. This is the reality where I live.

The one in Minnesota? Are you watching the current Love Island season too haha? Madison is in it, and she is so fine but with some skinny dweeb

With Dave, yes he is a fvck boy, but he hides it better and he knows how to play with emotions. Gymcels do not hide what they are and have zero emotional manipulation game. Your goal is to be the wolf in sheep's clothing not the sheep in wolf's clothing.

 

[zekko]

With Dave, yes he is a fvck boy, but he hides it better and he knows how to play with emotions. Gymcels do not hide what they are and have zero emotional manipulation game. Your goal is to be the wolf in sheep's clothing not the sheep in wolf's clothing.

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you here, and I certainly think there is more than one way to skin a cat.

It just interests me because in classic PUA theory, guys were always trying to send the message that they were the fvck boy, because in their minds the fvck boy is the alpha guy, and that women don't want the beta, they want the alpha guy. I've heard this theory before, where they try to hide what they are and disguise themselves as the sheep. But if they women don't find the sheep attractive in the first place, and really want the wolf, why pretend to be a sheep? This is all purely theoretical discussion, by the way.

 

[CornbreadFed]

It just interests me because in classic PUA theory, guys were always trying to send the message that they were the fvck boy, because in their minds the fvck boy is the alpha guy, and that women don't want the beta, they want the alpha guy. I've heard this theory before, where they try to hide what they are and disguise themselves as the sheep. But if they women don't find the sheep attractive in the first place, and really want the wolf, why pretend to be a sheep? This is all purely theoretical discussion, by the way.

Back then, being a fvck boy was considered unique and set yourself apart from average men. In today's world, every drop faded Joe Smith and broccoli headed Jose Sanchez are trying to imitate a fvck boy because of the internet. Most guys are just frauds and women have caught on to it, so you do not want obviously come off as a fvck boy anymore. Is Dave a fvck boy, yes, but there are traits that disguise him and set himself apart from the masses of fraudulent wannabe fvck boys.

 

[jhonny9546]

@CornbreadFed This is something I was discussing here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/share-something-that-helped-your-life.284512/unread

Women value the most emotionally and socially resilient men. They often place confidence, status, and presence above physical looks.

This is not an objective thing.
This is a subjective thing for a woman, since every woman concept of "emotional resilient" is different.
One woman might prefer a calm man, while another one the angry one.

But as man, we must have some qualities that, an objective level, put us on another level.
A man is not a guy. A man it's a man

Most men don’t have the baseline facial good looks to get to 8.

I don't know what an 8 is, but they tell me I look like Sean O'Pry!
That said, I'm 165cm tall, and I see that women are put off by that, but things change when they get to know me, or when they spend time with me, they realize that my face is above average.
This doesn't mean I'm the complete man at all, I'm on the journey like any of you. Always learning

nothing overcomes if the man is not in tune. he can look like a god, and fail. there is a vibe and sub channel that radiates, most women can read that fast. if the man is in tune, it can work well. if the man is lost, all bets are off.

This is subjective to any woman.
But we might also want to see video example that shows this in action

 

[zekko]

Back then, being a fvck boy was considered unique and set yourself apart from average men. In today's world, every drop faded Joe Smith and broccoli headed Jose Sanchez are trying to imitate a fvck boy because of the internet. Most guys are just frauds and women have caught on to it, so you do not want obviously come off as a fvck boy anymore. Is Dave a fvck boy, yes, but there are traits that disguise him and set himself apart from the masses of fraudulent wannabe fvck boys.

Interesting take. You're saying it isn't so much about being a sheep or a wolf as it is about standing out. I've always thought it was important to be natural, and true to yourself, whatever type you are. In PUA speak, they called that being authentic and congruent.

 

[MatureDJ]

Most men cannot become a 7 or 8.

It was OVER before it even started for Can'tAscendTo7Cels.

 

[BaronOfHair]

In Nashville, most guys walk around looking like some kind of Iron Man Pickleball King version of Riley Green. But they are usually with busted looking girls who look hungover and worn out, like they had a rough night...

The real problem for many men is broken confidence and an unattractive personality

Residing in an oversized rendition of Bumf-c- like NVille does a man fewer favors than Wahabism does for The Near East

 

[Manure Spherian]

Most men cannot become a 7 or 8.

Correct. One cannot change one's face, height, or physical structure.

I still consider lookism to be drastically overplayed. Women overlook good-looking men for high-status and criminal men.

one must have a SEVERE mental illness or personality disorder.

I consider myself a 7 and was better looking as a teenager and guy in his early 20's. I was an incel until 20 because I had awful self esteem and poor life skills. When I corrected those issues, I was no longer an incel.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Correct. One cannot change one's face, height, or physical structure.

I still consider lookism to be drastically overplayed. Women overlook good-looking men for high-status and criminal men.


I consider myself a 7 and was better looking as a teenager and guy in his early 20's. I was an incel until 20 because I had awful self esteem and poor life skills. When I corrected those issues, I was no longer an incel.

Meeting the minimum looks threshold is more important than trying to looksmax to a chad. .

 

[Sega Genesis]

Women overlook good-looking men for high-status and criminal men.

^^^Or men who simply give them 'tingles'; in femalespeak the 'feelz'!

C'mon guys women are all about feelings and emotions, if a man can stir those he'a IN!

At least initially.

A man does not have to be a Chad OR 6'+ to do this.

It's a chemistry! Guys don't lie lol you feel it too I know you do! Which is why you sometimes choose to stay with the cray cray.

Maybe for different reasons than women do but that chemistry has got to be there.

Am I wrong?

 

[Manure Spherian]

^^^Or men who simply give them 'tingles'; in femalespeak the 'feelz.'

C'mon guys women are all about feelings and emotions, if a man can stir those he'a IN!

At least initially.

A man does not have to be a Chad OR over 6' to do this.

It's a chemistry! Guys don't lie lol you feel it too I know you do! Which is why you sometimes choose to stay with the cray cray.

Maybe for different reasons than women do but that mutual chemistry has got to be there.

Am I wrong?

I went to Hershey Park last week with my family and saw loads of pot bellied men with women.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I went to Hershey Park last week with my family and saw loads of pot bellied men with women.

Attractive women?

Physical attraction is important to me along with the chemistry/feelz (beyond the physical) so a pot belly wouldn't do it for ME, but whatever floats their particular boats!

 

[Hal9000]

Most men cannot become a 7 or 8.

Yeah a guys gonna have to be at least 6ft for a woman to rate him that him so that eliminates probably 80% of men right there before you even get into all the other things that can prevent many men from ever achieving that kind of rating. Overall I'd say if theres one thing most men can do to better their chances with women its to improve their appearance. Even if they only move from a 4 to a 6 thats gonna help them down the road. And for the maybe 20% who can legitimately be considered a 7 or better by most women being among that top tier will pay off for sure. Doesn't mean you won't need a personality, money, etc to keep them around but a man's appearance is very important if he wants to improve his chances.

 

[ValiantMale]

If you're not in the league already, you probably weren't meant to make the cut.. Enjoying the fruits of beautiful women and endless casual sex is not for everyone and I think men need to stop chasing the wrong things. All that stuff should be a byproduct of you just living and working hard and focusing on other areas of life.

There's a reason why the average guy only lasts abotu 5 minutes in bed.. why many men are growera and not showers, etc..

I think people fight the wrong battles-- and dont realize women are way too nice -- because if they wanted, they can all just go on Tinder and pick and choose who to have se.x with and forget the majority of men completely.. an dsome women do. But many women simply dont value sex the same as men do.. and some men don't understand that andspend 90% of their time thinking about getting laid more instead of working on other important things in life.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Attractive women?

Some yes, some no. Many attractive women have dumpy-bodied men. I was one of a handful of gym bodies there (I’m a former bodybuilder).

Enjoying the fruits of beautiful women and endless casual sex is not for everyone and I think men need to stop chasing the wrong things.

I’ve several times suggested that ordinary men can get ordinary women (so-called “mids” or “5s” and “6s” and move on with life.

If a man is a 5, he can go for a 5 and live happily ever after. I’ve been criticized for such suggestion.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Yeah a guys gonna have to be at least 6ft for a woman to rate him that him so that eliminates probably 80% of men right there before you even get into all the other things that can prevent many men from ever achieving that kind of rating. Overall I'd say if theres one thing most men can do to better their chances with women its to improve their appearance. Even if they only move from a 4 to a 6 thats gonna help them down the road. And for the maybe 20% who can legitimately be considered a 7 or better by most women being among that top tier will pay off for sure. Doesn't mean you won't need a personality, money, etc to keep them around but a man's appearance is very important if he wants to improve his chances.

You don’t have to be 6’.

 

[CornbreadFed]

is a 6 or 7 like a Chad to yall or something?

 

[Mike32ct]

is a 6 or 7 like a Chad to yall or something?

It’s subjective, but I think it’s something like this:

sub5 - cel tier

5 - low tier normie (LTN)

6 - mid tier normie (MTN)

7 - high tier normie (HTN)

~7.5 - 7.9 - Chadlite

8 or higher - Chad

 

[BackInTheGame78]

There are many factors involved and trying to say one "doesn't matter" is not only wrong, it borders on absurd.

They all matter to some degree or another and looks is the one that gets your foot in the door.

You can have all the other ones, but if you are standing outside the club waiting in line while the dude with looks walks right in thru the VIP entrance, it doesn't do much good.

Essentially looks are what will give you the audition, the others are what will land you the role.

Doesn't do much good to have "leading role" potential if you can't even get an audition to show it.