This place has gone to shyt

[BaronOfHair]

I would say the current generation of women dont really inspire men to be don juans anymore

A man does all the things that make a fella attractive for HIMSELF, first and foremost, not for women. They're just a byproduct of building and maintaining a vibrant existence. Folks like Neil F. Scott were making this observation, as far back as The 80s

 

[Gamisch]

A man does all the things that make a fella attractive for HIMSELF, first and foremost, not for women. They're just a byproduct of building and maintaining a vibrant existence. Folks like Neil F. Scott were making this observation, as far back as The 80s

This is my kinda language.

Not only are women a byproduct, they are also a reflection of what kinda man you are.

People in the west are used to cruise through life. For a brief period we managed to control women but nowadays it's simply masks off.

Being a MODERN Don Juan means being a complete man, 360. All areas need to be covered. Hence why most dudes can't compete

 

[BaronOfHair]

People in the west are used to cruise through life

Beyond that: From the mid 1960s-forward, a handful of celebrities here in The Post-Industrial West hitting jackpot in their 2nd decade of life cursed us with the delusion that "making it" when one only a few years out of their teens is not only normal, but a reasonable expectation to have of ALL men

Such modalities of thought were alien to our ancestors though... To men in the earlier portion of The 20th Century and all points before, that getting one's needs and desires met(snagging cooter included)required exerting a fair amount of concentrated effort was self-explanatory


I'll agree with The OP 1/8th of the way: We do currently have a surplus of young males who are in anguish over not having "made it"(despite the fact that they're barely out of diapers)than was the case even in The 2000s. And sadly, large sections of The Manosphere have provided them with an ideology which AFFIRMS their dysfunctional thinking, rather than actually enlightening them to the facts of life:

"Damned straight, you haven't achieved much yet, and ya know what? Neither have 99% of guys in your age bracket either. Unless you're a textbook nepo baby or a real-life equivalent to Thugnificent*, you've gotta learn how sh-t operates, plus put in time and sweat in order to reap the fruits of your labor, just as all men who preceded you have done. You have no reasonable expection of enjoying riches, when you're still woefully ignorant, and haven't yet put much effort into anything, aside from perhaps f-c-ing Fortnite"



*And even Thugnificent went broke before age 30, ended up having to learn the ropes"

 

[Gamisch]

Beyond that: From the mid 1960s-forward, a handful of celebrities here in The Post-Industrial West hitting jackpot in their 2nd decade of life cursed us with the delusion that "making it" when one only a few years out of their teens is not only normal, but a reasonable expectation to have of ALL men

Such modalities of thought were alien to our ancestors though... To men in the earlier portion of The 20th Century and all points before, that getting one's needs and desires met(snagging cooter included)required exerting a fair amount of concentrated effort was self-explanatory


I'll agree with The OP 1/8th of the way: We do currently have a surplus of young males who are in anguish over not having "made it"(despite the fact that they're barely out of diapers)than was the case even in The 2000s. And sadly, large sections of The Manosphere have provided them with an ideology which AFFIRMS their dysfunctional thinking, rather than actually enlightening them to the facts of life:

"Damned straight, you haven't achieved much yet, and ya know what? Neither have 99% of guys in your age bracket either. Unless you're a textbook nepo baby or a real-life equivalent to Thugnificent*, you've gotta learn how sh-t operates, plus put in time and sweat in order to reap the fruits of your labor, just as all men who preceded you have done. You have no reasonable expection of enjoying riches, when you're still woefully ignorant, and haven't yet put much effort into anything, aside from perhaps f-c-ing Fortnite"



*And even Thugnificent went broke before age 30, ended up having to learn the ropes"

If this place gone to shyte, it's only logical because western society gone to shyte. It's just a reflection on a niche site. I'd expect deep convos bout game and phycology regarding male/ female dynamics but I accepted that such a place doesn't exist. Yet sosauve is the only place that allows " masculinity " without too much interference.

Thousands of videos from man saying," they don't wanna work fulltime and grind because women yadiya ".

I can never understand how a mere image in the mind/ fantasy can control a man so much. Yet I see it all around me every damn day via close ones.

Most men are willing to destroy themselves over these delusional ideas . To a point where it perhaps make sense that we as humans are prone to dying young through war, risk ect. If ( certain) men live long enough they'll destroy themselves voluntary.

The secret isn't secret anymore. But the solution is EXTREMELY demanding also..most men are frontline soldiers but no generals..

 

[BaronOfHair]

Fingz had a spinoff forum for a while, next level game. I was a mod. He got in a relationship and pulled the plug on the site in about 2009. That may have been the peak, or a little before.

This goes to one possible explanation as to why discussion around "men's issues" has become increasingly confused and contradictory... What's said here

10:34-10:42 is just as true of most of The Manosphere on YT, X, and the like... And those venues are where entirely too many young guys get most their information these days

End result is that we now have a nation overflowing with fellas who excel at repeating their favorite content creator's gospel ad nauseum, rarely interrogating the dogma they've embraced for accuracy, much less having anyone call them out, with words to the effect of:

"OK... Having accumulated all this alleged knowledge, in what ways are you putting it into practice, and has it enhanced your existence in some tangible ways? If the answer to the latter is "Yes", provide specifics"

 

[BaronOfHair]

If this place gone to shyte, it's only logical because western society gone to shyte

History has been rhyming once again

https://reason.com/1994/07/01/man-troubles/ , even if not necessarily repeating
Quote: "Similar contradictions can be observed within the men's movement. Many masculists seem to be saying simultaneously that the works of men have been a boon for humanity and should be admired and that the roles which enabled and sometimes pushed men to do those things were oppressive and bleak. Although Warren Farrell writes that the socialization of both sexes should combine the best of the "male" and "female" heritage, the overall sense one gets from The Myth of Male Power is that being expected to strive is a dismal fate ("Men are not human beings, they are human doings") and that to admire a man for his achievements is as sexist as it is to admire a woman for her large breasts

Thus, although masculism challenges the politically correct view of women as an oppressed class, it often shares some key elements of P.C.: the "politics of identity," which eclipse the notion of a universal human condition; an antipathy to such Western values as rationality, competitiveness, and individual achievement; the tendency to view human experience as shaped primarily by restrictive social forces rather than individual will and action"


It's not a fluke that that article was written in '94, during the height of what many have referred to as The First Great Age Of Political Corretness

https://the-realignment.simplecast.com/episodes/187-greg-lukianoff-the-second-great-age-of-political-correctness-9_O_m4VW

We're still in The 2nd GAOPC today, with much of Red Pill Thought being little more than Wokeness in reverse. And I can't help but suspect that this 2nd Great Age is going to drag out longer than the first, on account of the world we now inhabit being tricked out with infinitely more media than existed in the years between '86-'95

 

[Divorced w 3]

this bit needs to be stickied, posterised, shouted from the rooftops:


When you find yourself a fine woman who moves in tandem with her man, supporting him in what he does, and retains her own femininity, it's like finding a goddam unicorn

I think this rant-thread and the state of affairs is trying to basically say is this - society went way over to the side of essentially feminist chaos, social media chaos, red pill philosophy chaos, just dogmatic nonsense all over - and its places like this- pragmatic thinking, normal mediums, healthy faceless debate based on merit, attracting people and continuing to provide time tested principles in dating and in life

 

[BaronOfHair]

This is my kinda language.

Not only are women a byproduct, they are also a reflection of what kinda man you are.

People in the west are used to cruise through life. For a brief period we managed to control women but nowadays it's simply masks off.

Being a MODERN Don Juan means being a complete man, 360. All areas need to be covered. Hence why most dudes can't compete

Goes to what some call the principal of Obliquity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obliquity_(book) Often enough, the best attributes of life are side effects of achieving what, at first glance, appear to be "normie" goals

One example: Our increasingly long lives didn't arise from the pursuit of eternal life, but from societies becoming rich. This, by extension, gave us the resources to create technology that-for the most part anyway
-sturdied our health, healed and drastically reduced ills which previously dropped 90% of our ancestors before age 30

 

[BaronOfHair]

Name one reputable red pill icon out here making cold approaches and showing receipts right now?

The Rational Male- Hours long streams about theory

Alpha Male Strategies- Theory

Fresh and Fit- Hours long streams about Theory

Rich Cooper- Theory

Hamza- Theory

CoachGregAdams- Hours long streams about Theory

For sometime now, Damon Albarn's observation on The Grunge Aesthetic("If you tell a whole nation it’s dysfunctional, it becomes dysfunctional. Tell someone they’re depressed often enough, and they are. But the idea of wallowing in self pity is ridiculous. That's something to grow out of by age 8 or so")has been no less true of much of The Manosphere:

Spend over a decade peddling the message "Your life isn't just occasionally frustrating and disappointing, at least in your own estimation, but a neverending parade of persecution"... That creates a nation full of men who excel at listing all the aspects of modernity they find displeasing, yet are woefully incapable of articulating what they desire

 

[BillyPilgrim]

For sometime now, Damon Albarn's observation on The Grunge Aesthetic("If you tell a whole nation it’s dysfunctional, it becomes dysfunctional. Tell someone they’re depressed often enough, and they are. But the idea of wallowing in self pity is ridiculous. That's something to grow out of by age 8 or so")has been no less true of much of The Manosphere:

Those are wise but tone-deaf words. Albarn never dealt with the American Boomer generation over there in the UK. Grunge was popular for a reason the Brits can't well understand. Oasis was the same as Blur in that respect.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Those are wise but tone-deaf words. Albarn never dealt with the American Boomer generation over there in the UK

We all ultimately choose to create the stories we tell ourselves, and the degree to which we mistake them for Holy Writ. The existence of Boomers isn't especially relevant to any of that

 

[Divorced w 3]

For sometime now, Damon Albarn's observation on The Grunge Aesthetic("If you tell a whole nation it’s dysfunctional, it becomes dysfunctional. Tell someone they’re depressed often enough, and they are. But the idea of wallowing in self pity is ridiculous. That's something to grow out of by age 8 or so")has been no less true of much of The Manosphere:

Spend over a decade peddling the message "Your life isn't just occasionally frustrating and disappointing, at least in your own estimation, but a neverending parade of persecution"... That creates a nation full of men who excel at listing all the aspects of modernity they find displeasing, yet are woefully incapable of articulating what they desire

So in other words, the Manosphere has done an excellent job creating an entire audience, feedback loop (let’s call it what normal people say, which is a massive circle jerk) and recurring revenue stream for themselves. That’s what many here, including me, have been trying to say for years.

I want to be clear: male philosophy should be studied and understood, adopted into one’s core and used in their toolkit, but it is supposed to set one free, not become bondage.

 

[BaronOfHair]

So in other words, the Manosphere has done an excellent job creating an entire audience, feedback loop (let’s call it what normal people say, which is a massive circle jerk) and recurring revenue stream for themselves. That’s what many here, including me, have been trying to say for years.

My contention, for sometime now, has been that much of The Manosphere/Red Pill Thought fills the void left by church attendance and "traditional" religion, yeah. The revenue stream you speak of is essentially the donation plate being passed around the pew, at the end of a sermon


"Red Pill" just means "That reaffirms what our scripture dictates", "Blue Pill" is a stand-in term for words like "heresy" and "blasphemy", "Purple Pill" really just means "You've become too independent and heterodox: The Ayatollahs Of Red Pill Theology over on YT are displeased by your lack of deference"


"I want to be clear: male philosophy should be studied and understood, adopted into one’s core and used in their toolkit, but it is supposed to set one free, not become bondage"

I'd add that philosophy itself has no gender: The author of any given philosophy does, and that inevitably influence their perspective. Whether or not it sets one free or becomes a form of bandage is matter of how the reader or listener or reader interprets and applies it

 

[Gamisch]

Nobody is stopping you from making a field report.

I don't get the appeal about the field reports. I geuss it's a " sosauve cultural " thing. But tbh game is about SO much more than just approaching. Matter a fact, approaching is basic level 1. By the way, OLD has COMPLETELY changed the importance of CO. I know men touching 30 that never approached yet they have kids cohabiting a of that.

To maintain a relationship situation with a woman is (imo) much more interesting.

The whining about field reports is lame. It always comes down to a story about a woman that liked member yxz. Once a woman likes you it doesn't matter what you do or how you do it. Just THAT you fecking do it.How often will you hear about a man completely changing a situation due to " tricks and game"?

I'd expected to have high level conversation about the philosophy behind game. But most members here are way too superficial for that.

- approaching
-game
- self esteem/confidence
- ioi and gro what types of women
- to want a ltr or not
- how to ltr
- why you shouldn't ltr
- weaknesses in men
-cultural dynamics
- changes in technology

Just to name a few.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I don't get the appeal about the field reports. I geuss it's a " sosauve cultural " thing. But tbh game is about SO much more than just approaching. Matter a fact, approaching is basic level 1. By the way, OLD has COMPLETELY changed the importance of CO. I know men touching 30 that never approached yet they have kids cohabiting a of that.

To maintain a relationship situation with a woman is (imo) much more interesting.

I see them as basically words of affirmation for men. I do think it is kind of a cope because I cannot understand how you are a king at cold approaching women and fvcking them without a first date, but you are over here struggling with novice level women shvt lol. In addition, I rarely see men cold approaching outside, so where is it happening?

 

[SW15]

I rarely see men cold approaching outside, so where is it happening?

The most common place for approaching is in bars. Non-bar approaching is uncommon but I have seen others do it. I also regularly non-bar approach when I need to meet women.

Running/walking clubs are very fashionable at the moment as an in-person method to meeting people.

Co-ed sports leagues had a moment 10+ years ago, but those were somewhat flawed in putting people together.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I don't get the appeal about the field reports. I geuss it's a " sosauve cultural " thing. But tbh game is about SO much more than just approaching. Matter a fact, approaching is basic level 1. By the way, OLD has COMPLETELY changed the importance of CO. I know men touching 30 that never approached yet they have kids cohabiting a of that.

To maintain a relationship situation with a woman is (imo) much more interesting.

The whining about field reports is lame. It always comes down to a story about a woman that liked member yxz. Once a woman likes you it doesn't matter what you do or how you do it. Just THAT you fecking do it.How often will you hear about a man completely changing a situation due to " tricks and game"?

I'd expected to have high level conversation about the philosophy behind game. But most members here are way too superficial for that.

- approaching
-game
- self esteem/confidence
- ioi and gro what types of women
- to want a ltr or not
- how to ltr
- why you shouldn't ltr
- weaknesses in men
-cultural dynamics
- changes in technology

Just to name a few.

The devil is in the details and a good field report should allow for a full view of what went right and what could have gone better. This includes either a recap of the language involved or if possible, a copy of the written exchange.

Speaking just for myself, my field reports always involved the approach, the twists and turns that would have possibly lead to losing the close, and then how it went during and post close.

If a field report follows those steps, it should be helpful to men.

 

[characternote]

I used to write lots of FR's but to be honest, over the years after analysing my own interactions (as well as reading others FR, gaming with guys, and watching infields etc) it just started to seem a bit pointless in that, the thing that leads too a 'successful' interaction is basically never your 'game' or your verbals. It's just her attraction level. Just as you see even with 'pro' infields, you can usually tell whether it will be a success or when it definitely WON'T be a success within seconds! (they can pull a girl using base level social skills and verbals every other guy would use evne if he's never heard of game, and they can open a girl who is not remotely interested on 'hi', and he uses his whole toolbox of PUA lines and tricks only to delay the rejection)

And with a rejection, your write an FR and then all these 'experts' give you stupid reasons (using hindsight bias) as to why the interaction failed ('it was that opener!', 'it was that question after your opener! too boring', 'it was that cold read. It was weird' etc etc). Even if the exact same verbal 'worked' (or appeared to work) on other girls that week

I'm someone who used to encourage field reports and have written hundreds, but yeah, over time I kinda decided that it just encourages armchair PUA's to give ppl bad advice and have them chasing their tails

cold approach is a game of how attractive she thinks you look and luck, basically. Took me 70+ lays to realise though, maybe lol

 

[CornbreadFed]

I used to write lots of FR's but to be honest, over the years after analysing my own interactions (as well as reading others FR, gaming with guys, and watching infields etc) it just started to seem a bit pointless in that, the thing that leads too a 'successful' interaction is basically never your 'game' or your verbals. It's just her attraction level. Just as you see even with 'pro' infields, you can usually tell whether it will be a success or when it definitely WON'T be a success within seconds! (they can pull a girl using base level social skills and verbals every other guy would use evne if he's never heard of game, and they can open a girl who is not remotely interested on 'hi', and he uses his whole toolbox of PUA lines and tricks only to delay the rejection)

And with a rejection, your write an FR and then all these 'experts' give you stupid reasons (using hindsight bias) as to why the interaction failed ('it was that opener!', 'it was that question after your opener! too boring', 'it was that cold read. It was weird' etc etc). Even if the exact same verbal 'worked' (or appeared to work) on other girls that week

I'm someone who used to encourage field reports and have written hundreds, but yeah, over time I kinda decided that it just encourages armchair PUA's to give ppl bad advice and have them chasing their tails

cold approach is a game of how attractive she thinks you look and luck, basically. Took me 70+ lays to realise though, maybe lol

Exactly!!

 

[BillyPilgrim]

We all ultimately choose to create the stories we tell ourselves, and the degree to which we mistake them for Holy Writ. The existence of Boomers isn't especially relevant to any of that

The UK and US are different countries. Allow me to mount my high horse and suggest you learn some simple geography. The are indeed relevant to the discussion of cultural differences of that time.

Sanctimony has its place but this ain't it.