A relationship it's a rental agreement

[SW15]

Isn't this your belief too @SW15 ? That relationships have a shelf life (a good shelf) of approximately 5 years?

Christie Brinkley and I have some overlap on our viewpoints on longer term relationships. I wouldn't consider our viewpoints the same.

I believe long term relationships typically have a good shelf life of approximately 5 years with a decent frame. When relationships last beyond 5 years, they are typically in a state of decay. The decayed state of that relationship is sometimes good enough to warrant continuing, but often it prolongs the inevitable.

Christie Brinkley got married 4 times in life because she was raised during the 1950s-1960s. That was the societal programming of her formative years which she didn't question until it was too late.

I am an early Millennial and my formative years were during the 1990s, when Boomer divorces were common. My parents divorced. I also did not assume marriage was automatically going to be my path. I questioned the path for good reason. I have never married.

While most 1980s born Millennials (the first half of the generation) have married by now, there's a portion of late 30s-early 40s Millennials like myself who have never married. This portion is larger than when previous generations were in their late 30s-early 40s. Millennials were not raised with the societal programming that marriage was an unquestioned part of life.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I think Christie has many regrets about her past and how she chose to handle things all of which has brought her to where she is now and why she made that statement.

She has learned from mistakes which we all should do! And also sounds like she's rethinking the "societal programming" you referenced.

I believe long term relationships typically have a good shelf life of approximately 5 years with a decent frame. When relationships last beyond 5 years, they are typically in a state of decay. The decayed state of that relationship is sometimes good enough to warrant continuing, but often it prolongs the inevitable.

^^I agree which is what I posted. Which is also why "checking in" with each other periodically (as Christie stated) isnt a bad idea for reasons stated in my post.

Millennials were not raised with the societal programming that marriage was an unquestioned part of life.

^^Also agree. Which is why I said simply live together and commit from your hearts as long as you both want and it's working. Better for kids too, if any.

I've actually always believed this but made a mistake a couple of years ago and got married. Lasted less than a year, now divorced.

On a positive note, I have learned a great deal from that mistake so it's all good!

I did not become "damaged" from it.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Especially these days, with online apps it’s never been more true.

that poses a big question for the dogmatists out there - can you swallow your pride and accept a handful of short term flings in her past if there is a bunch of other stuff that works out great in the situation?

Also of note, very rarely does one find out the body count first , it’s usually well after the attraction that one uncovers these things

Re bolded yes! As she should also accept your generic your) past, it works both ways, no?

I only say this because I know of many women who wouldn't! Once a "fukk boy" always a "fukk boy" in their eyes. Next.

Me?

There is a saying in Eastern teachings that I like and follow:

"The past is history, the future is a mystery and the present is a "gift" which is why it's called the "present."

Works both ways.

 

[Manure Spherian]

f there are kids, it's better for them too as living in a home where there is no or very little love between their parents can do a HEAP of damage emotionally and I speak from experience saying that.

Wouldn’t it be better for two people to prioritize stability for children from day one rather than “rental agreements”?

What exactly does “bored” mean here? Women have wrecked families with their boredom.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Wouldn’t it be better for two people to prioritize stability for children from day one rather than “rental agreements”?

What exactly does “bored” mean here? Women have wrecked families with their boredom.

I don't think it's necessary boredom and it's definitely NOT just the woman.

But to answer your question, yes absolutely!

However, sadly even with the best efforts, which in an ideal world should be a priority especially when there are kids, relationships and marriages sometimes break down and the love dies.

Again which is why I advocate "checking in" periodically and attempting to resolve issues versus bailing out or worse, cheating.

 

[plumber]

Primarily because there are now no consequences as there were in the past, including deadly ones.

I believe most girlfriends are meant to be stolen. Wives or women cohabitating with men and children should not.

Nearly all women are “gf’s”. So to get them, men have to steal them.

yes, but the math doesn't work. i know lots of guys that are single. there is about a 50/50 split in number of men vs women.

 

[SW15]

Which is also why "checking in" with each other periodically isnt a bad idea

This can be valuable in an LTR. When problems arise, they should be addressed. While communication is an important component of longer term relationships, it's far from the only important thing.

Both partners should have a general idea of how their relationship is going at any time.

I said simply live together and commit from your hearts as long as you both want and it's working. Better for kids too, if any.

Rollo Tomassi has had a good take on living together without marriage. This 2011 blog post became the basis for a chapter in 2013's "The Rational Male" book.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #4
NEVER under any circumstance live with a woman you aren’t married to or are not planning to marry in within 6 months.

Shacking Up

Iron Rule of Tomassi #4 NEVER under any circumstance live with a woman you aren’t married to or are not planning to marry in within 6 months. You are utterly powerless in this situation. NEVE…

therationalmale.com

I haven't lived with any of my girlfriends over the years. After reading this many years ago, I decided that wouldn't be a good idea. Prior to reading Tomassi's take, I had openness to the idea. I am glad that I never went forward with it.

I once asked a male friend who was living with a girlfriend prior to marriage about why he bothered to get married to her. He could have kept living with her for the foreseeable future. He said the reason for the marriage was a stable household for any future children.

I've actually always believed this but made a mistake a couple of years ago and got married. Lasted less than a year, now divorced.

On a positive note, I have learned a great deal from that mistake so it's all good!

I did not become "damaged" from it.

A childless divorce that lasts less than one year would have minimal impact on a woman's sexual market value (SMV). Few of the men that you would meet in the mating environment would judge you too harshly on this marriage & divorce.

 

[Manure Spherian]

i know lots of guys that are single.

That’s the problem I noticed long ago. Single men, but women jammed up in “relationships”.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I once asked a male friend who was living with a girlfriend prior to marriage about why he bothered to get married to her. He could have kept living with her for the foreseeable future. He said the reason for the marriage was a stable household for any future children.

This^^ is certainly a fair point. A stable household IS what's best for the kids.

But one could argue living together (and committed from the heart), happy and in love is far more stable than a stale marriage with no love and so much tension and turmoil. Cheating etc.

I can tell you from experience from witnessing my own parents' loveless and toxic marriage, it did NOT provide stability for me. The opposite actually.

My dad was the one who initiated the divorce.

Given the approx 5-year shelf life of relationships/marriages anyway (which you have posted about), I don't really see the point and especially in the man's case, when he has SO much to lose financially in most cases.

Not to mention the utter hassle of dealing with lawyers etc.

Curious how long ago Rollo Tomassi wrote that Rule 44? More than 10 years ago?

Given the sad state of marriages these days, I wonder if he still believes that?

Also a bit confused on your stance. Do you agree with marriage? Or don't agree?

When we were discussing Christie Brinkley, I interpreted some of your posts to mean you think it's a somewhat outdated institution, not everyone agrees with it anymore and it's not necessary.

My apologies if I misinterpreted.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I don't think it's necessary boredom and it's definitely NOT just the woman.

Certainly not. But 90 percent of divorces involving children are initiated by women.

A revealing essay I’ve recommended over and and over is “Rotating Polyandry and Its Enforcers“ by Roger Devlin. Getting someone to read these days is difficult. So I suggest people listen to a spoken version of it on YouTube.

 

[Sega Genesis]

But 90 percent of divorces involving children are initiated by women.

90%? Wow I didn't know that!

 

[SW15]

Curious how long ago Rollo Tomassi wrote that Rule 44? More than 10 years ago?

Given the sad state of marriages these days, I wonder if he still believes that?

Rollo wrote that article I linked in 2011. Marriages were in a sad state in 2011.

Rollo has long promoted the idea of men not getting married while also not living with women.

Also a bit confused on your stance. Do you agree with marriage? Or don't agree?

I think marriage can work for a small subset of people. I think it can work between people serious about practicing certain religions.

I have never married and do not foresee myself getting married at this point.

Given the approx 5-year shelf life of relationships/marriages anyway (which you have posted), I don't really see the point and especially in the man's case, when he has SO much to lose financially in most cases.

Men have a lot to lose financially in marriages. Getting a prenuptial agreement is a good step for those who want to get married. Red pill divorce attorney James Sexton recommends them.

A lot of LTRs/marriages beyond the 5 year mark are decaying and it's inertia or obligations like children and/or real estate keeping a relationship together longer than its shelf life of goodness.

I also don't think lifetime monogamy is a good model for either men or women.

I can tell you from experience from witnessing my own parents' loveless and toxic marriage, it did NOT provide stability for me. The opposite actually.

My parents' marriage did not set a good example for me. I can identify with your feelings.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Rollo has long promoted the idea of men not getting married while also not living with women.

I see, thanks for clarifying. Although isn't he himself married and has been for many years?

Is he stuck in a toxic marriage and that's why he's against?

 

[Manure Spherian]

90%? Wow I didn't know that!

Yup. Outrageous.

 

[plumber]

That’s the problem I noticed long ago. Single men, but women jammed up in “relationships”.

right, so one or the other or both is not telling the truth.

 

[SW15]

I see, thanks for clarifying. Although isn't he himself married and has been for many years?

Is he stuck in a toxic marriage and that's why he's against?

Rollo has been married for almost 30 years. There is little indication on the quality of the nearly 30 year marriage.

I think he realizes that his marriage staying together nearly 30 years is a good outcome. I think he also realizes that most men can't expect that outcome.

Rollo did write about his own marriage at his 16th anniversary in 2012.

16 Years On

On July 20th my wife and I celebrate our 16th wedding anniversary. It’s no secret to my readers that I have a very good marriage and I’m constantly asked what my ‘secret’ is…

therationalmale.com

 

[Scaramouche]

Certainly not. But 90 percent of divorces involving children are initiated by women.

A revealing essay I’ve recommended over and and over is “Rotating Polyandry and Its Enforcers“ by Roger Devlin. Getting someone to read these days is difficult. So I suggest people listen to a spoken version of it on YouTube.

Hi ManSpherian,
Thanks for that...Yes,it is a very hard read I started to skim it,but the four stages of marriage break up,are for me soo accurate to real life...a Wife who had it all with glitter sprinkled on it,turned round one day saying "Where the H... is all this going?"When pressed on what she wanted,she said "If you can't see,then there's no use talking to you,there just has to be something more!"My mistake?not pressuring her to go to work,keep 'em too busy to be dissatisfied!

 

[DJ Novice]

Desire needs insecurity, novelty and space. This is impossible to maintain over the long term in a live in relationship. Add in hedonic adaptation (which affects all relationships) and all relationships are doomed to decay over time. It’s just a matter of how long which will depend on a range of factors. I think I read somewhere that female desire actually fades more quickly than male desire.

The reason for marriage vows (which I took seriously, my wife initiated divorce) is that you agree to stay together to the bitter end despite relationship decay….publicly, before your god of choice.

Give the frequency of divorce perhaps marriage vows should be changed to something more realistic, e.g. ‘until I get bored, unhappy and/or find a younger, hotter alternative’.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Yup. Outrageous.

Not mine

 

[Manure Spherian]

https://youtu.be/T0ROw7LGj0Y?si=pqOmRBgcbTpnoK9N

Quote:

“The author is not a professional researcher in any of these fields herself. She relates that, after four years of happy marriage and shortly after her 27th birthday, she began to feel bored and unhappy for no apparent reason. She turned to a number of books and professionals, all of whom agreed that the fault lay with her husband; she adopted this now conventional view for a time herself. Fortunately—and unlike most women—she kept digging for answers. She met women, at first accidentally, who described similar experiences, and questioned them. Later she began seeking women out for lengthy interviews. She eventually interviewed men as well. It is worth noting that she managed to devote several hours a week to this research without any degree in sociology or taxpayer-funded grants. Gradually, consistent patterns began to emerge from the stories she was hearing. “By the time I stopped counting, I had interviewed 123 women and 72 men. . . . I found it fascinating that something so prevalent could be kept so secret.”

See, “bored” for no reason.