The truth about flaking

[CornbreadFed]

The women who are bored are just using you for validation/attention, they never planned on meeting you they just wanted some guy to fawn over them maybe sext sent him nudes but never wanted to meet up This happens a lot and most guys don't know how to spot them unless they know the signs.

It's basically being pro-active rather than reactive. A lot of women's BS can be spotted earlier on, so it is up to the man to decide to play the hope strategy and hope the tunnel isn't dangerous, walk through the tunnel well prepared to fight off zubats, or just find a different path.

 

[BaronOfHair]

People dated for decades and centuries without having to re-confirm 1st and possibly 2nd dates on the day of the day.

Actually, no one "dated" prior to The 20th Century: Folks "with means" of any sort (be they aristocrats or peasants who'd hit some sort of jackpot)were either subject to arranged marriages or partook in a brief courtship with their future spouse. And we presume prehistoric man passed their women around, and often gained(and lost)these same gals via raids on "enemy" tribes

 

[SW15]

Actually, no one "dated" prior to The 20th Century:

Still, people went a good portion of the 20th Century and into the early part of the 21st Century without doing day of the first date confirmations. That's multiple decades.

I turned 16 in 1999 and began dating in my junior year of high school (the 1999-2000 school year).

I don't remember the whole confirmation text message on the day of a first date/early stage date being a common thing until smartphones and social media had become popular. I spent my first 10-12 years or so in the mating environment with this not being a major thing.

Smartphones and social media have created more flaking, ghosting, and rude behavior. It's created 2 generations of adults (Millennials and Generation Z) who act more like children/perpetual adolescents than actual adults.

Doctors offices didn't used to confirm either. Now days many bill you for a "no-show". People are pretty flakey these days and are often pre-occupied.

I think this is part of the culture change that's been happening. The flaking/ghosting thing isn't just limited to the mating environment. Medical offices are a great example of it. In employment searching/interviewing, it's very common for employers to ghost on candidates in the middle of an interview process. Some employers even complain that employees were ghosting at some point after hiring if they weren't feeling good about the job. This hasn't been happening as much in the last 18-24 months in white collar work because the labor market for white collar work has gotten much weaker.

 

[Sega Genesis]

All you are doing is sending a "we still good for tonight at xyz"

This may sound nitpicky but best to not 'ask' if the date is still on or "we still good for tonight"?

It sounds a bit insecure. I mean why wouldn't it be? Are you used to women flaking?

If so, you don't want to be conveying that message by 'asking' if a scheduled date is still on.

If the date has been scheduled (place and time), assume it's still on and if you want (but unnecessary) you can send a text before you leave saying "leaving shortly, see you soon" with a wink emoji.

But asking "we still on for tonight"? sounds a bit weak and insecure IMO.

 

[ValiantMale]

Yes, but there's no reason to punish genuinely interested women for the actions of non-interested/toxic women.



This is where discovery(pre-qualifying) comes into play. You read what she wants and act upon it. If you are obviously getting a feel of point 1 from the girl, then why would you take her out to a $400 dollar sushi dinner followed by an orchestral symphony and then drinks at a rooftop bar? Like I stated before, this is where social skills & emotional IQ 101 come into play.



If I am dealing with a girl #3, then I will set up a low investment date and damn sure confirm the date 30 minutes prior. If something better comes along or I am not feeling it then I will flake on her.

All girls are pretty much girl #3.. the first 2 are subcategories you can say. If the prospect of getting to know you is interesting/sounds fun enough, they'll show up, if not- they can care less.. For the attractive social woman, men are a dime a dozen.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Still, people went a good portion of the 20th Century and into the early part of the 21st Century without doing day of the first date confirmations. That's multiple decades.

For multiple centuries, we as a species pissed and sh-t wherever we happened to be standing or sitting at the moment, and didn't give much thought to operating in any other fashion. Today, we have a wide variety of options to choose from, some of which are:

-Just go ahead and act on our urges, without ever asking ourselves questions such as: "Might it be healthier, for both myself and the planet, to take advantage of modern sanitation?"

-Start a campaign to dismantle indoor plumbing, and return to the natural way of doing things

-Rejoice in the technological advances that have been made in sanitation, exploit them to their fullest extent

Similar is true of dating and mating. We can kvetch about how much simpler things may have been at some point in the past, and we can also put modern tech to use, text those we plan to get together with earlier in the day to confirm the appointment

As someone else on this thread stated, this stuff is only complicated, IF we choose to make it so

 

[SW15]

A) You didn’t sell yourself or the date well
Girls invest a lot more into first dates than guys do. They need a good reason to show up. Most guys mess this up in three classic ways. Trying too hard to be “mysterious” but just coming off awkward and weird. She doesn’t really know who you are and starts thinking you might be on the spectrum. Coming on too strong and salesy, basically forcing her into a date she never really wanted. Terrible planning. Bad location, vague plans, no thought about her comfort.

Due to female abundance, the threshold that men need to reach in the sales part of the date is higher than it was 15 or 20 years ago.

I don't think there's been enough talk about this idea.

The threshold that a man must clear on a first date now is higher than it used to be, especially if he is meeting women through the use of tech methods.

A first date that was good enough to earn a man a 2nd date in 2000-2006 is not good enough to earn him a 2nd date in the 2010s-2020s.

Women expect an amazing connection now immediately. If they don't sense that, they ghost or flake.

 

[CornbreadFed]

If the date has been scheduled (place and time), assume it's still on and if you want (but unnecessary) you can send a text before you leave saying "leaving shortly, see you soon" with a wink emoji.

But asking "we still on for tonight"? sounds a bit weak and insecure IMO.

So what if she doesn’t respond for like 15 minutes?

 

[Sega Genesis]

So what if she doesn’t respond for like 15 minutes?

You shouldn't be expecting a response, you're making a statement - you're leaving shortly and will see her soon.

Right?

But yes if ME and I saw your text (which I may not since I'm getting ready and not always tied to my phone), I would text back saying "me too and looking forward to meeting you"! or something like.

But since the time and place have already been set, not sure what there is to confirm?

If the date was scheduled a week prior then ideally you're chatting a bit during the week.

Not too much, just enough to keep things "alive" and building rapport before the date.

Best to be decisive, act confident and assume the date is on.

If she doesn't show/flakes, have a drink at the bar and chat up other women! And don't talk to her again.

JMO @CornbreadFed but if asking a woman IF the date is still on (after it's already been scheduled) works well for you then keep doing that.

Just saying for me it would come off a bit insecure that's all. And would throw ME off and cause me to not feel safe.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I don't think there's been enough talk about this idea.

The threshold that a man must clear on a first date now is higher than it used to be, especially if he is meeting women through the use of tech methods.

A first date that was good enough to earn a man a 2nd date in 2000-2006 is not good enough to earn him a 2nd date in the 2010s-2020s.

Women expect an amazing connection now immediately. If they don't sense that, they ghost or flake.

I’ve said it before, the purpose of the first date is just to see if you can get along, enjoy each other’s company, and if anything romantic can transpire.

The second date is where she starts looking more closely for red flags or potential liabilities. Both dates serve different purposes, and knowing that keeps you from overplaying your hand too soon.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The threshold that a man must clear on a first date now is higher than it used to be, especially if he is meeting women through the use of tech methods

Alternate view, which has kinda sorta been discussed previously https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...s-nothing-personal.283972/page-9#post-3156222



In one sense, dating and mating is easier today than it has been in a loooooooooong f-cking time. Why? Public perceptions of men are so abysmally low, that not just women, but society at large is blown away whenever they encounter a fella who doesn't look, speak, and act like either

or what's described here

between 5:56-6:40

 

[Bingo-Player]

Lot of odd takes in this thread

Women usually flake because men assume that giving them vague plans and options makes him look cool and signals he's not too bothered wether she shows or not

In contrast women are very nervous very anxious creatures , they need a lot of reassurance and familiarity before they will trust a man especially in early stages of dating

Remember for a woman the risk of Rape / Sexual Assault / Wierd Stalker behaviour is well beyond the reward of a date with a new guy.

Just as you would close any deal you have to show her that you acknowledge her concerns and adequately deal with any objections often before she has even had time to worry about them

This is part of being in a masculine frame

Also Sending vague messages like " where would you like to go " doesn't really signal to her you have any idea what your doing and further adds to the anxiety

A mate of mine is 40 and still messages women on dating apps things like " its up to you", " im easy where we go " , " I don't know that many good places "

I mean it took me until 30 to understand all of this but in honesty when you see how clueless a lot of men are with dating you realise the bar is fvcking low

 

[CornbreadFed]

Best to be decisive, act confident and assume the date is on.

If she doesn't show/flakes, have a drink at the bar and chat up other women! And don't talk to her again.

Too many time-wasting women out there for me to do this lol. I got better things to do with my time then play games with a spoiled princess lol.

 

[SW15]

Too many time-wasting women out there for me to do this lol. I got better things to do with my time then play games with a spoiled princess lol.

That venue might also not be a good venue for starting interactions. Some bars are better for hosting dates than approaching.

 

[CornbreadFed]

That venue might also not be a good venue for starting interactions. Some bars are better for hosting dates than approaching.

Most bars are set up for social circle groups to communicate with each other not single people to connect with other single people. I usually only see other couples or lonely men at the bar counter. Your best bet is having a group of bros with you and lucking up with a group of women that are open to connecting with your group.

 

[SW15]

Most bars are set up for social circle groups to communicate with each other not single people to connect with other single people.

In 2016, Forbes featured an article about how Tinder and other swipe apps were changing bar design. I think some of the trends mentioned in this article have continued in the 9 years since it was published.

How Tinder Is Changing The Urban Bar Scene

The rise in online dating may be bringing money into the nightlife industry.

www.forbes.com

Design/form can impact function. See quote below.

The scene within the bar, moreover, has changed. It used to be that packs of single women and men would enter separately, and then mingle. This still happens on weekends, but is mixed with far more autonomous male-female couples. Koinzan noticed that women are less likely to get approached at the bar nowadays, especially by younger men who are likely finding their dates online. And she said that, especially among Millennials, mobile phone use at the bar has become more common, even late at night, when people are likely still seeking matches.

I think what you are saying was even applicable in the era of Mystery and Strauss in the early 2000s.

I usually only see other couples or lonely men at the bar counter.

It depends on the time, the day, the bar, and the neighborhood within the city where the bar is located.

Your best bet is having a group of bros with you and lucking up with a group of women that are open to connecting with your group.

Nightlife venue approaching is best for males in groups approaching females in groups. That was true in the peak period of Mystery and other PUAs of the late 1990s/early 2000s and is still true today.

That was even true in the post Sexual Revolution pre-PUA era of 1970-late 1990s too.

 

[DJ Novice]

I never confirm a date once it has been arranged. I also don’t contact her until the date. If I turn up and they flake so be it.

If a woman is genuinely interested in you she will (1) suggest and arrange the date herself and/or (2) reach out on the day of the date to confirm.

Real life example:

I’ve been talking weekly to a girl I connected with on a dating app for 4 weeks. The first week I called her. The last two weeks she texted me first and I called her. In the fourth week she suggested we catch up for a dinner date and gave me the venue and time (the date is tonight).

This morning she texted me ‘Hi, see you tonight ’. And replied ‘Looking forward to it ’.

I am confident the chance of her flaking (barring a genuine emergency) is zero.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I never confirm a date once it has been arranged. I also don’t contact her until the date. If I turn up and they flake so be it.

If a woman is genuinely interested in you she will (1) suggest and arrange the date herself and/or (2) reach out on the day of the date to confirm.

I can also say if a woman is genuinely interested in you, she won't be instantly turned off by a guy simply confirming a date.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I can also say if a woman is genuinely interested in you, she won't be instantly turned off by a guy simply confirming a date.

Fair point... and there's nothing bad or wrong with confirming, in fact most women including myself appreciate when a man confirms even though it's probably not necessary if the date (place and time) has already been set.

BUT by 'asking' if the date is still on when you're scheduled to meet her in a few, is that actually confirming?

Or is it seeking reassurance that she won't flake?

That was my only point earlier.

That said, I'm being nitpicky and you're right, if she has high interest, it shouldn't matter either way.

 

[CornbreadFed]

That said, I'm being nitpicky and you're right, if she has high interest, it shouldn't matter either way.

It's all about how you convey your message and deliver it effectively tbh. If you don't want to confirm dates then I hope you are doing a great job selling yourself. My issue is when cowards hide behind these passive bvtch made tactics and try and sell it as holding masculine frame. No dude, you are just scared to talk to women lol.