Michael Sartain: Approaching Strangers is Dead

[SW15]

Is approaching strangers in real life dead?

It always was. As I’ve said repeatedly on here. I don’t know one couple formed from it.

I know at least 3 currently married couples formed off of a bar approach. Two of these bar approaches occurred over 10 years ago. The third one is close to 10 years ago at this point. The third one is the couple covered with significant detail most recently in this post.....

Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere! Life When Your Blue Pill Social Circle Starts Having Babies

There is much resentment in seduction forums and the Manosphere of ordinary dudes with women. I have noticed this as well, I'm glad you brought it up, especially with "average" or "ugly" guys who are with hot/pretty women that they met in a social circle or through High school/College. in...

www.sosuave.net

If the typical man wants a girlfriend, his best course of action is community building/social circle game. However, community building/social circle game is very slow. That involves showing up to the same type of community events week after week and building relationships with people. If someone needs to build community from scratch, it might take years before a community is built. That might mean years without sex until a man can get the correct social infrastructure in place to get the social introductions necessary for an extended sexual relationship. It might never happen despite best efforts.

That’s also why I’ve routinely said this stuff needs to be set early! I mean VERY early.

I agree with the idea that it needs to be set early.

The men that I have seen play social circle game the best were men who spent all of the K-12 years in the same city. They were at least mid-tier in these years. They weren't social outcasts. More like neurotypical beta males with agreeable personalities. If they went to college, they went to a nearby regional college within a 2-4 hour drive of where they grew up. After college, they returned to the same area where they spent their K-12 years. These are men who have deep roots in a particular geography.

In the USA, the big Sun Belt cities are more likely to have transplanted adults from other cities, though the type I described in the paragraph above does exist in these cities. It's less common. It's more common to encounter deeply rooted adults in Northeast and Midwest USA cities.

I have moved between Sun Belt cities as a post-college adult. In these cities, I have noticed that the female online daters were mostly nomadic adults with multiple past relocations and weak social circles. It's likely the male online daters fit that description too. A lot of the people dependent on the bar scene were nomadic, transplanted adults without deep roots in the city.

I've spent a lot of time in London and Birmingham the UKs second city. I find it rare to see men cold-approaching women, i dont do it myself. Maybe cold-approach is more of an American thing.

That's not true. The London Daygame Model emerged from men approaching women on the streets of London.

London and other European cities have better infrastructure for street approaching than a lot of car-centric USA cities.

Street approaching is only one form of cold approaching. There are cold approach options in indoor venues (malls, supermarkets, etc) and other outdoor venues.

When I was younger it was normal for young men to 'holler' at girls, but I am not seeing young men with the confidence to do it anymore. I think in general females dont really appreciate it. I would in general agree with the sentiment of the youtuber SW15 said, that cold approach could be dead totally, lets not forget many years ago the PUA scene was full of men with laycounts mostly from cold-approach, now thats all dead. Community building is the way to go imo but as mentioned its long and difficult.

Cold apprach would require a high level of Game nowadays, as this generation of women doesnt care about some guy hollering at her like that.

Gen Z (1997-2012 births) is the current crop of 20 somethings. They have more stunted social skills as a result of growing up after the 2000s when a lot of social skill reducing technologies got popular (social media platforms, more advanced cell phones). The Millennial generation (1981-1996 births) was either in their late teens or early 20s when social skill reducing technologies emerged. Millennials did not have good social skills either. There are plenty of 35-40 year old Millennials in the world with weak social skills. I have told the story of my 2001-02 freshman year of college school year dorm and the over reliance on AOL Instant Messenger then. AOL Instant Messenger was the precursor to cellular phone text messaging. Elder Millennials were big into that in the early 2000s.

There are now 2 adult generations who are more accustomed to social contact behind electronic screens. That's affected the mating scene for approaching strangers in real life.

 

[Manure Spherian]

If cold approaching is out, then what would you do?

If I were a single man in his 40s (I’m not) I’d initiate conversation with women giving me IOIs. I’d also use the gym, dating apps, work, and events of interest.

 

[SW15]

the gym

That's a common place for stranger approaches. Mark Cuban met his now wife at a gym. He was already rich when he did his gym approach there.

The general gym floor and fitness classes at a gym are different approach venues. General gym floor is more difficult due to earbuds/headphones.

dating apps

Sartain says these are dead for all but the top tier guys. Sartain isn't the only person to say this.

work

Sexual harassment culture (started in the 1990s) has reduced direct approaching at workplaces.

Feminist HR associates and managers have made this very difficult.

That said, there are options with work.

Building positive relationships with female co-workers could lead to social circle introductions.

It could be an option to approach women in other companies in the same building in common areas of a building. This tends to be more effective in larger buildings (10+ stories) due to more foot traffic. With more remote/hybrid work in the last few years, these opportunities are dwindling. Increased unemployment means fewer people in office buildings too.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

Actually brings us back around to a conversation we're having here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...a-dating-coach-for-money.284238/#post-3161008

There may be a market for "no frills" dating/mens coaches who steadfastly refuse to bulls-it their clients with transparently fraudulent glamour or bu-ka-e them with all sorts of Manosphere gibberish

Zherka is one of them though he is so unhinged.

There always is a market for that. J went out with one of these dudes and his gf kept hitting on me. Social media can't take away ones lack of masculinity.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

I've spent a lot of time in London and Birmingham the UKs second city. I find it rare to see men cold-approaching women, i dont do it myself. Maybe cold-approach is more of an American thing. When I was younger it was normal for young men to 'holler' at girls, but I am not seeing young men with the confidence to do it anymore. I think in general females dont really appreciate it. I would in general agree with the sentiment of the youtuber SW15 said, that cold approach could be dead totally, lets not forget many years ago the PUA scene was full of men with laycounts mostly from cold-approach, now thats all dead. Community building is the way to go imo but as mentioned its long and difficult.

Cold apprach would require a high level of Game nowadays, as this generation of women doesnt care about some guy hollering at her like that.

Cold approach isn't "hollering". It's called being a man. This is how men are supposed to meet women lol approaching them first. First it shows a sign of courage and going against the norm which so few people do which is attractive in itself.

 

[Mike32ct]

Sartain also preaches about having a large social circle of attractive female friends. Then “friendzone” all of them and let women come on to you.

While I support having women friends, the vast majority of guys (myself included) will not be able to show up at a bar (or other venue) with multiple Staceys like he does.

 

[SW15]

Sartain also preaches about having a large social circle of attractive female friends. Then “friendzone” all of them and let women come on to you.

While I support having women friends, the vast majority of guys (myself included) will not be able to show up at a bar (or other venue) with multiple Staceys like he does.

A good portion of men don't get anything out of their friendship or acquaintanceship interactions with women.

I have numerous male friends/acquaintances around my home city. They've had girlfriends/wives. None of their girlfriends/wives ever provided me with an introduction. Most of them weren't capable of providing me with introductions or didn't prioritize me for introductions. None of them showed up to bars with me as wings. One has shown disdain for me through her behavior on a couple of occasions despite me not seeing her in person since 2018 and having minimal interaction with her prior to then.

None of my female co-workers ever introduced me to their contacts.

 

[Manure Spherian]

The general gym floor and fitness classes at a gym are different approach venues. General gym floor is more difficult due to earbuds/headphones.

I would do this by conversing with gym people generally, men and women, not by cold approaching a woman while exercising.

Sartain says these are dead for all but the top tier guys. Sartain isn't the only person to say this.

Two cousins married from them. Another is dating a guy from one. Two of my friends met their second wives with them. My brother in law also met his wife from one.

It could be an option to approach women in other companies in the same building in common areas of a building. This tends to be more effective in larger buildings (10+ stories) due to more foot traffic. With more remote/hybrid work in the last few years, these opportunities are dwindling. Increased unemployment means fewer people in office buildings too.

Again, I would do this by fitting in generally and if there was clear evidence a woman liked me.

As with the gym, this stuff at work wouldn’t be done in some abrupt, clumsy manner for women I hardly know. Bottom line: women like socially adroit men, men who fit in and don’t randomly ask them out with no previous acquaintance.

 

[Mike32ct]

A good portion of men don't get anything out of their friendship or acquaintanceship interactions with women.

I have numerous male friends/acquaintances around my home city. They've had girlfriends/wives. None of their girlfriends/wives ever provided me with an introduction. Most of them weren't capable of providing me with introductions or didn't prioritize me for introductions. None of them showed up to bars with me as wings. One has shown disdain for me through her behavior on a couple of occasions despite me not seeing her in person since 2018 and having minimal interaction with her prior to then.

None of my female co-workers ever introduced me to their contacts.

Yeah, I totally understand the above. I’ve never had a female friend fix me up or even introduce me to somebody. I stopped expecting that years ago.

I only bother with women friends mostly because they are more eager to hang out.

Mature guys are quite difficult to make plans with. They’ll talk about it, but it’s not easy to pin down firm plans with male buddies after a certain age.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

Yeah, I totally understand the above. I’ve never had a female friend fix me up or even introduce me to somebody. I stopped expecting that years ago.

I only bother with women friends mostly because they are more eager to hang out.

Mature guys are quite difficult to make plans with. They’ll talk about it, but it’s not easy to pin down firm plans with male buddies after a certain age.

Female friends are also only good if your good in bed and good with girls.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

Bro why is Rollo so ****ing angry all the time

 

[Manure Spherian]

Bro why is Rollo so ****ing angry all the time

I’ve asked this EXACT question numerous times on here and elsewhere. The guy seems to have a petulant personality disorder.

Same goes for Richard Cooper, FitX (whatever the rest of the name is), Anthony Lifestyle, Casey Zander, and so on, all perma-angry, neurotic, bltching and moaning madmen. They have the traits of homosexuals though they aren’t them.

 

[Manure Spherian]

While I support having women friends, the vast majority of guys (myself included) will not be able to show up at a bar (or other venue) with multiple Staceys like he does.

Hence this sh-t should be nailed down early, before 25 preferably, and if a man hasn’t nailed down a social circle by this age, good luck! Then it’s up to just finally meeting individual, unattached women. I’ve said it before, status mongering young women are OWNED by their cliques and seldom stray for anyone not in them, not even for good looking outsiders. Sometimes they just “date” around with all male insiders. Hence in the video one said she “dated his friend”. They’ll gladly date “his friend” than someone not yet known.

 

[SW15]

Mature guys are quite difficult to make plans with. They’ll talk about it, but it’s not easy to pin down firm plans with male buddies after a certain age.

Every one of the married men I'm about to describe are 35+ at this point. They are mature men by definition.

The biggest problem that I find with mature men is the influence of their wives. Their wives don't want them hanging out with unmarried men, unless it's a dual couple get together with an unmarried man and his long term girlfriend.

In general, married mature men have their wives tie them down to household chores and spending time with the children. This seems like more of a factor with middle class + White males than other segments of the mature man population.

I don't like to ask many of my married man friends for individualized social outings because they won't commit to it. While the married men with young children are most problematic with this, I've even had trouble making plans with my childless married man friends.

I’ve never had a female friend fix me up or even introduce me to somebody. I stopped expecting that years ago.

That should be a core benefit of interactions with females. A lack of introductions is a major failing on their part.

I have no female friends at this point. The wives of my male friends/acquaintances are still out there and still not providing introductions. I have some former co-worker female acquaintances too. They are married women and likely not capable of introductions, so they are providing introductions either.

This is why I am a stranger approacher when needing to meet new women. I have also been an app swiper in the past. I've sent a few DMs too, though DMs were never a major part of my efforts.

I only bother with women friends mostly because they are more eager to hang out.

As someone with zero female friends, I cannot relate. I have acquaintances and I might occasionally see one of them.

Hence this **** should be nailed down early, before 25 preferably, and if a man hasn’t nailed down a social circle by this age, good luck!

My childhood and early adulthood relocations made this an impossibility for me. I moved to my current city in my late 20s with zero social connections. While I made friends in my late 20s/early 30s as a newbie to the city, I never created a true social circle. I haven't been a social outcast during my 10+ years in the current city.

Then it’s up to just finally meeting individual, unattached women. I’ve said it before, status mongering young women are OWNED by their cliques and seldom stray for anyone not in them, not even for good looking outsiders.

I live in a Sun Belt USA city which has a lot of nomadic adult transplants. Social circles are here are weaker.

Because social circles tend to be weaker, people aren't closed off here. Stranger approaches are usually at least cordial and there isn't any hostility to outsiders, unlike some other areas of the USA. The rootless nature of a lot of transplanted adults leads to a lot of app-based dating, which puts men in a more difficult position. The better play is to approach strangers and join in on whatever in-person events that you can attend.

The weak social circles do contribute to the city's pretentious reputation. Because a lot of people are meeting strangers, there are no consequences for bad behavior. When there's no attachment, women can be as superficial as they please.

Good looking outsiders are known to do well on apps here. To a lesser extent, that's true in bars as well, though bar approaching culture has declined here (like everywhere in the Western world) in recent years.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Every one of the married men I'm about to describe are 35+ at this point. They are mature men by definition.

The biggest problem that I find with mature men is the influence of their wives. Their wives don't want them hanging out with unmarried men, unless it's a dual couple get together with an unmarried man and his long term girlfriend.

In general, married mature men have their wives tie them down to household chores and spending time with the children. This seems like more of a factor with middle class + White males than other segments of the mature man population.

I don't like to ask many of my married man friends for individualized social outings because they won't commit to it. While the married men with young children are most problematic with this, I've even had trouble making plans with my childless married man friends.



That should be a core benefit of interactions with females. A lack of introductions is a major failing on their part.

I have no female friends at this point. The wives of my male friends/acquaintances are still out there and still not providing introductions. I have some former co-worker female acquaintances too. They are married women and likely not capable of introductions, so they are providing introductions either.

This is why I am a stranger approacher when needing to meet new women. I have also been an app swiper in the past. I've sent a few DMs too, though DMs were never a major part of my efforts.



As someone with zero female friends, I cannot relate. I have acquaintances and I might occasionally see one of them.



My childhood and early adulthood relocations made this an impossibility for me. I moved to my current city in my late 20s with zero social connections. While I made friends in my late 20s/early 30s as a newbie to the city, I never created a true social circle. I haven't been a social outcast during my 10+ years in the current city.



I live in a Sun Belt USA city which has a lot of nomadic adult transplants. Social circles are here are weaker.

Because social circles tend to be weaker, people aren't closed off here. Stranger approaches are usually at least cordial and there isn't any hostility to outsiders, unlike some other areas of the USA. The rootless nature of a lot of transplanted adults leads to a lot of app-based dating, which puts men in a more difficult position. The better play is to approach strangers and join in on whatever in-person events that you can attend.

The weak social circles do contribute to the city's pretentious reputation. Because a lot of people are meeting strangers, there are no consequences for bad behavior. When there's no attachment, women can be as superficial as they please.

Good looking outsiders are known to do well on apps here. To a lesser extent, that's true in bars as well, though bar approaching culture has declined here (like everywhere in the Western world) in recent years.

I see we’ve had different experiences. In the 90s and 2000s, in Queens, the most socially connected women were owned.

 

[kavi]

Cold approach isn't "hollering". It's called being a man. This is how men are supposed to meet women lol approaching them first. First it shows a sign of courage and going against the norm which so few people do which is attractive in itself.

IMO its difficult to have 'high-quality high impact' interactions with females as cold approaching. Cold approach can work out sometimes but, and this is why i dont do it, i have had much more higher impact interactions in social environments than cold approaching, the difference for me is massive. I suppose it depends on skillset. With cold approach things are quite 'simple' ie you will generally have a quick 5 minute 'cookie cutter' convo and then try to get the number. Some girls maybe into it but imo mos girls i think these days are not really into it but ofcourse some will be. I think its rare a 'quality, middle class type girl' will be into it. Atleast thats how it looks over here. Maybe its diffrent in different countries.

Cold approach seems to have died since apps came out. But now even apps are losing female and male users. lets look at the major societal trends.

Meeting women in bars and clubs - was big now dead
Cold approach - was big now pretty dead
Apps - Got big now going dead

IMO its mostly dead on all fronts hence for me I now looking for opportunities to develop social circles and community/friend groups bcos I think that could be the next big thing, sort of like meetup but different.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

IMO its difficult to have 'high-quality high impact' interactions with females as cold approaching. Cold approach can work out sometimes but, and this is why i dont do it, i have had much more higher impact interactions in social environments than cold approaching, the difference for me is massive. I suppose it depends on skillset. With cold approach things are quite 'simple' ie you will generally have a quick 5 minute 'cookie cutter' convo and then try to get the number. Some girls maybe into it but imo mos girls i think these days are not really into it but ofcourse some will be. I think its rare a 'quality, middle class type girl' will be into it. Atleast thats how it looks over here. Maybe its diffrent in different countries.

Cold approach seems to have died since apps came out. But now even apps are losing female and male users. lets look at the major societal trends.

Meeting women in bars and clubs - was big now dead
Cold approach - was big now pretty dead
Apps - Got big now going dead

IMO its mostly dead on all fronts hence for me I now looking for opportunities to develop social circles and community/friend groups bcos I think that could be the next big thing, sort of like meetup but different.

Listen, anything can work if your the right dude. No offense but to me this sounds like a workout program working for some people and not for others. Truth is most people are pussies and aren't very direct. Having some very very direct approaches I know first hand that it works if your strong enough. They literally have no choice but to accept a truly masculine man just as how a super feminine woman being in front of you with a incredible body radiating femininity will make your **** hard. It's the same with women

 

[Clockwerk50]

I’ve actually been saying this for a while now: the best method of pulling younger women is through social circles and power dynamics (e.g., teacher, guardian, manager, mentor, coach).

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

I’ve actually been saying this for a while now: the best method of pulling younger women is through social circles and power dynamics (e.g., teacher, guardian, manager, mentor, coach).

It works. No one's denying that. But eventually the truth of who you are comes through eventually. I've seen this dynamic play out till the dude becomes playdough for the woman. She was attracted to his frame and he needs to maintain that. The problem with social circle and getting girls through authority is these dudes don't know WHY the girls like them and once they get them they ease off the gas.

 

[kavi]

Listen, anything can work if your the right dude. No offense but to me this sounds like a workout program working for some people and not for others. Truth is most people are pussies and aren't very direct. Having some very very direct approaches I know first hand that it works if your strong enough. They literally have no choice but to accept a truly masculine man just as how a super feminine woman being in front of you with a incredible body radiating femininity will make your **** hard. It's the same with women

lols ok im gonna let you have this one for your no nonense approach as i kinda like the attitude even tho i have a more nuanced idea...