Do you think a man has to be quite wealthy to pull off marrying a tradwife?

[Manure Spherian]

, not just a union between two individuals

The rich and certain demographics don’t practice clown marriage (romantic model, tingles, fuzzy wuzzies, two individuals playing house).

 

[BeExcellent]

@pipeman84 let me assure you they are going to be fine. The female body is best suited to bearing children in young adulthood. The body is physically more resilient and pregnancy/childbirth are sometimes very tough. A youthful body and energy copes with this better than an older woman.

My son takes his responsibility as the man, the leader of the household and marriage, fatherhood, and provider very seriously. He also takes being Catholic very seriously. He wants a "herd" of kids, they plan for her to homeschool them, and this is what has always been the plan. The Catholic faith frowns on birth control and encourages procreation. Having a stay at home wife/mother is a luxury of sorts in this day & age. He knows that, he values that and he faciliates that. He is quite emotionally mature for his age and so is she.

In college he saw friends enjoying the party lifestyle and in fact a close friend of his died from a fentanyl overdose after going home with a stripper and taking whatever she gave him. That really was tragic and confirmed for him that he is making the right choices.

He will be fine. While in college he was regional sales leader at his job (which he held down in addition to school, ROTC and LTR), even though he worked part time. He is smart and ambitious but also listens to informed advice.

They will be Ok.

 

[SW15]

BE's example to rush to have a child.

We now have women delaying this unduly.

@BeExcellent herself didn't rush to have a child either. She had her first child around 33-34. Let's also remember that this happened in the early 2000s before Millennial women were postponing childbirth in large numbers. Generation X women had children earlier in life than Millennial women have.

I agree with @Manure Spherian about women delaying childbirth. It was a gradual process through the Boomers and Generation X. When the Gen Y/Millennial women came of age, they delayed childbirth even more than their recent predecessor generation who had access to hormonal birth control.

Now, it's uncommon to see a woman who has a bachelor's degree have a baby before her 30th birthday. So many Millennial women are having their first child between 33-38.

Women historically had children young, before we turned many of them into spoiled brats. Not even long ago a woman in her early 20s had three or four children, a husband, and a home. And they didn’t drop dead from all that and not having the chance to have endless fun and thrills.

Women historically had children young. This was even a thing for most of the 20th Century too.

It wasn't until the last 50-65 years where we've started to notice delays in women having their first child.

The Millennials (1981-1996 births) have been the first large generation to more commonly start having their first child after age 30.

 

[BeExcellent]

I delayed kids because I didn't marry until I was 31. And I was pregnant when we celebrated our first anniversary. I never went back on birth control and had 2 more (my youngest I had at 39) and each pregnancy was physically more taxing than the one before. And I was then and have remained in great shape. I had my tubes tied as part of my 3rd C section precisely to avoid being pregnant in my 40s.

Pregnancy can be really tough. I was fortunate and had easy uncomplicated pregnancies (and worked FT and travelled until 34 weeks with each one)....my DIL has had terrific morning sickness and had trouble gaining weight with the daily sickness. She is finally doing better but she is due in 8 weeks now too. Hopefully she will make enough milk & be able to nurse. I was able to do that without issue but not every woman is.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I really do not get why the red pill obsesses over stuff that benefits them? Delaying child birth and remaining unmarried longer benefits them because they are certainly not in one of these traditional girls line of sight. I come from an area where if you aren’t married by 24-25 then you are pretty much ****ed with leftover women most men do not want. In order to lock these prime women down, you have to be in her social circle not at home watching 3 hours red pill streams and going to clubs every weekend.

 

[pipeman84]

@pipeman84 let me assure you they are going to be fine. The female body is best suited to bearing children in young adulthood. The body is physically more resilient and pregnancy/childbirth are sometimes very tough. A youthful body and energy copes with this better than an older woman.

My son takes his responsibility as the man, the leader of the household and marriage, fatherhood, and provider very seriously. He also takes being Catholic very seriously. He wants a "herd" of kids, they plan for her to homeschool them, and this is what has always been the plan. The Catholic faith frowns on birth control and encourages procreation. Having a stay at home wife/mother is a luxury of sorts in this day & age. He knows that, he values that and he faciliates that. He is quite emotionally mature for his age and so is she.

In college he saw friends enjoying the party lifestyle and in fact a close friend of his died from a fentanyl overdose after going home with a stripper and taking whatever she gave him. That really was tragic and confirmed for him that he is making the right choices.

He will be fine. While in college he was regional sales leader at his job (which he held down in addition to school, ROTC and LTR), even though he worked part time. He is smart and ambitious but also listens to informed advice.

They will be Ok.

Your assurance is nothing but wishful/positive thinking and not based in facts.
Let me address the points you made:
1. as she's 21, waiting a few years to consolidate their relationship would have had a negligible negative (more so in statistical than real terms) effect on her physical capacity to get pregnant/give birth but a huge, actual effect on her mental and emotional capacity to handle the challenges of pregnancy/birth and raising a kid
2. re Catholic faith, it approves natural family planing, so it's a non argument here
3. the friends living and dying from party lifestyle have no bearing on this case as I wasn't arguing the point that he chose to be a family man.
4. you're reinforcing the argument he's a good provider/money mule, which I wasn't contending at all.
Sounds to me like you're presenting an archaic model of tradwife where the guy is basically an ATM and the woman a baby machine.

my DIL has had terrific morning sickness and had trouble gaining weight with the daily sickness.

That's EXACTLY what a newly married 21 yrs old guy full of testosterone and who abstained from sex until marriage needs. #sarcasm

 

[BeExcellent]

Your assurance is nothing but wishful/positive thinking and not based in facts.
Let me address the points you made:
1. as she's 21, waiting a few years to consolidate their relationship would have had a negligible negative (more so in statistical than real terms) effect on her physical capacity to get pregnant/give birth but a huge, actual effect on her mental and emotional capacity to handle the challenges of pregnancy/birth and raising a kid
2. re Catholic faith, it approves natural family planing, so it's a non argument here
3. the friends living and dying from party lifestyle have no bearing on this case as I wasn't arguing the point that he chose to be a family man.
4. you're reinforcing the argument he's a good provider/money mule, which I wasn't contending at all.
Sounds to me like you're presenting an archaic model of tradwife where the guy is basically an ATM and the woman a baby machine.


That's EXACTLY what a newly married 21 yrs old guy full of testosterone and who abstained from sex until marriage needs. #sarcasm

You can ridicule the values my son and DIL have all you like. My son knows the red pill. He knows I am here. He knows the success of his relationship rests on his ability to lead. He has deeply internalized this precisely because he watched his dad fail in that way; and his mother leave after a while as a direct result.

I'd argue he's seen RP truths up close & personal.

Ridicule them all you like. It does not change their choices or reality. You are still struggling with women. My son is not. And my son knows he could find another woman if it ever came to that. But it is unlikely given that she adores him & is bonded with him and her goal in life is to be the best wife & mother she can for him.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I really do not get why the red pill obsesses over stuff that benefits them?

Worrying about decisions that were never ours to make(women have always found ways to terminate pregnancies they weren't eager to carry), and that we have little control over, is an unsung perk of modern life

 

[BaronOfHair]

@pipeman84 let me assure you they are going to be fine. The female body is best suited to bearing children in young adulthood. The body is physically more resilient and pregnancy/childbirth are sometimes very tough. A youthful body and energy copes with this better than an older woman.

My son takes his responsibility as the man, the leader of the household and marriage, fatherhood, and provider very seriously. He also takes being Catholic very seriously. He wants a "herd" of kids, they plan for her to homeschool them, and this is what has always been the plan. The Catholic faith frowns on birth control and encourages procreation. Having a stay at home wife/mother is a luxury of sorts in this day & age. He knows that, he values that and he faciliates that. He is quite emotionally mature for his age and so is she.

In college he saw friends enjoying the party lifestyle and in fact a close friend of his died from a fentanyl overdose after going home with a stripper and taking whatever she gave him. That really was tragic and confirmed for him that he is making the right choices.

He will be fine. While in college he was regional sales leader at his job (which he held down in addition to school, ROTC and LTR), even though he worked part time. He is smart and ambitious but also listens to informed advice.

They will be Ok.

I, for one, salute their efforts and wish them eternal joy, BE. I just can't shake the suspicion that, for most red-blooded heterosexual men today, going the trad route at the beginning of their 2nd decade of life is less viable than trying to persuade their first employer(right of university)to guarantee them 20 years of work + A lavish retirement package at the end of that 20 years

Your son's player friends may be envious now, but if the majority of them were to try their own hand at marriage and fatherhood right now, how many of these same fellas will still be content when 30 roles around? I submit very few

 

[SW15]

Delaying child birth and remaining unmarried longer benefits them because they are certainly not in one of these traditional girls line of sight.

In general, a small % of men (80th-90th percentile +) have benefitted from this. Higher tier guys have been enjoying having shorter term sex with women beyond age 25 who have delayed childbirth and remained unmarried.

The typical mid-tier beta male has not benefitted much from this.

The mid-tier beta male has often been relegated to being the man she settles for later in life after getting piped down by many top tier or is a man who gets continually ignored as women keep chasing sex from top tier men into their 30s and even 40s now.

I come from an area where if you aren’t married by 24-25 then you are pretty much ****ed with leftover women most men do not want.

Mid-tier males often have to decide between taking on some leftover woman who has been piped down by numerous top tier men or not having any partner or any access to sex.

In order to lock these prime women down, you have to be in her social circle not at home watching 3 hours red pill streams and going to clubs every weekend.

Social circle is the best option for the mid-tier man in that scenario. The top tier men on looks or money aren't going to need to worry about this as much. A top tier guy can lock down a prime woman without a social circle.

 

[RickTheToad]

Something that I have been noticing is that these gals don't marry the guy that's struggling bringing home the bacon.

What if he's a vegetarian?

 

[SW15]

The rich and certain demographics don’t practice clown marriage (romantic model, tingles, fuzzy wuzzies, two individuals playing house).

How do the rich and these certain demographics practice marriage?

In reading this thread below, I think my social connections in my current city were practicing clown marriage to an extent. These friends were raised middle class and above.

The romantic model was used. I think there's been some level of "playing house" among my social connections. The females might have experiences tingles and fuzzy wuzzies more but males can also have those sorts of feelings.

I asked my closest friend once why he bothered to get married to his now wife. They had already been living together when he proposed marriage. They could have kept living together for the foreseeable future if they'd wanted to continue the relationship.

His answer intrigued me for 2 reasons.

1. I think he omitted the possibility that his then girlfriend and now wife was pushing for a ring (likely in playing house).
2. His answer was that they got married for the purposes of creating a home for future children they would have. Since he answered that question, they had children and it was one of the pregnancies mentioned in "Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere". The whole thing was a facade and playing house.

His wife has not been a tradwife. After giving birth, she returned to her job in about 3 months. She only did one "tradwife" thing in taking his last name when they marry. Most women in the United States are still doing that. Few women retain a maiden name after marriage.

Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere! Life When Your Blue Pill Social Circle Starts Having Babies

Yesterday, I was on my Instagram and saw a pregnancy announcement from an acquaintance's wife in my social circle. I don't particularly like her. I find it annoying to be around her the 1-2 times a year I ever randomly see her in person. Right now, there are 3 women from my local area social...

www.sosuave.net

I delayed kids because I didn't marry until I was 31.

In the year 2000, you would have been approximately 5 years older than the median first time bride.

I was pregnant when we celebrated our first anniversary.

Due to the later in life marriage, it was understandable why you got pregnant so soon after the wedding day.

Some couples marrying younger will take a little bit more time with that.

I never went back on birth control and had 2 more (my youngest I had at 39) and each pregnancy was physically more taxing than the one before. And I was then and have remained in great shape. I had my tubes tied as part of my 3rd C section precisely to avoid being pregnant in my 40s.

The topic of birth control after the first birth has come up for my friends/acquaintances. One had a detailed conversation with me about this last year.

It's not surprising that 3 pregnancies in one 30s were incrementally more taxing.

Pregnancy can be really tough. I was fortunate and had easy uncomplicated pregnancies (and worked FT and travelled until 34 weeks with each one)

You were fortunate that despite physical taxation that the pregnancies were uncomplicated. I've observed some complications in the pregnancies of the wives of my male friends/acquaintances. There have been some premie births.

Your son's player friends may be envious now, but if the majority of them were to try their own hand at marriage and fatherhood right now, how many of these same fellas will still be content when 30 roles around? I submit very few

Divorce has a way of making a man shift his ideology more towards the red pill or even the black pill.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The typical mid-tier beta male has not benefitted much from this.

Goes to a conversation being had here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/3-reasons-why-the-average-man-is-struggling-today.284046/ "Mid Tier" folks(their gender, skin color, ethnicity, creed, or sexual orientation is irrelevant)don't benefit much from ANY opportunities they find before them, be said opportunities great, mild, or minute

Ex. "Sinners" wouldn't be doing gang busters at the(domestic)box office, if Director Ryan Coogler and star M.B. Jordan(who doesn't really boast exceptional range as an actor)had gotten caught up in the booze and dope-adled party side of Hollywood, instead of working hard to establish themselves with flicks like Fruitvale Station, Creed, and Black Panther

Hell, the film's leading lady-Hailee Steinfeld-would probably be consigned to Syfy channel flicks by now, had she gone the way of Tara Reid and Lindsay Lohan(I.E. Done what APPEARS to be easy... Let herself go, all the way down the sh-t-er) rather than keeping fit/perhaps even undergoing cosmetic surgery(I.E. Put time and effort into herself), so that she looks like this https://frankiesbikinis.com/pages/h...nr6J0tiLfKWRHr0yzz9ZAeAMG617P-HGVNv2sce8bxpwF

 

[Solomon]

How do the rich and these certain demographics practice marriage?

Answer below

Yep. Even today, the further one goes up the socioeconmic ladder, the more common it is to find folks who view marriage as exactly what it is: An investment. Hell, 1%ers and those close to this status STILL approach marriage as a joining of two houses, not just a union between two individuals

To be honest it makes sense to an extent. Imagine someone who grew up as a top 1% all their life they most likely went to private schools, have had a life of comfort and luxury etc. Even if they were to meet some "Regular folk" the differences on how they were raised, values, etc would be very different.

I remember an old mentor/friend telling me that to a rich person, 90K in their savings is "broke" but 86% of Americans don't even have 20K in their savings. I remember thinking people who spend $300-$500 on first dates where lame and simps. However, what is $500 to a guy making $30 million annually? Once you have seen this in person or hung around those types, you realize that the guy spending that type of money is not worried about if he has enough money to pay rent. It be like a guy making 50K a year spending $10 on a date. Now I'm not saying to spend $500 on a first date, Im merely using this analogy to paint a picture for folks who may not grasp this concept.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Divorce has a way of making a man shift his ideology more towards the red pill or even the black pill.

We needn't even go that far. On average, how many modern day heterosexual men who are in good-excellent physical health(I.E. Their urge to nail everything with a heartbeat is pervasive)yet who married and began fathering kids in their early 20s will be content to confine themselves to one vagina by time the age of say, 28 rolls around?

When it comes to men who achieve significant financial success, begin moving up the social ladder, and thus find themselves surrounded by an abundance of fresh women... Well, the idea that such men will settle for their mousy high school sweetheart at home, and not take up with one of the many hot blooded sex goddesses they've come into contact with is more far-fetched than fever dreams of The White Sox going to The World Series anytime soon

Again, I salute those who can Go Trad at the beginning of their 2nd decades of life and make such unions work. They're an inspiration to us all. I also find it nigh impossible to believe that most really young men in particular will be A-OK with such a lifestyle

 

[BeExcellent]

The funny thing @SW15 is that I wasn't "trying" to get pregnant at all. I did get off birth control and once I did we took a laise faire attitude toward kids. If we had them, we had them. If we had more, we had more. We typically were sexually active at least once a day for the entirety of the relationship so frankly its kinda surprising we didn't have more than 3, lol.

 

[BeExcellent]

We needn't even go that far. On average, how many modern day heterosexual men who are in good-excellent physical health(I.E. Their urge to nail everything with a heartbeat is pervasive)yet who married and began fathering kids in their early 20s will be content to confine themselves to one vagina by time the age of say, 28 rolls around?

When it comes to men who achieve significant financial success, begin moving up the social ladder, and thus find themselves surrounded by an abundance of fresh women... Well, the idea that such men will settle for their mousy high school sweetheart at home, and not take up with one of the many hot blooded sex goddesses they've come into contact with is more far-fetched than fever dreams of The White Sox going to The World Series anytime soon

Again, I salute those who can Go Trad at the beginning of their 2nd decades of life and make such unions work. They're an inspiration to us all. I also find it nigh impossible to believe that most really young men in particular will be A-OK with such a lifestyle

Well my son will tell you that is determined by your character. Sure there are hot Jezebels everywhere but are they kind, feminine, submissive, modest, great bakers, great cooks, virgins, and nurturing mothers as well?

Hell no.

So it depends on what you value as a man and your emotional maturity. My son is an extremely fit, handsome, red blooded man. Emphasis on MAN. He is not ruled by his penis or the need for sexual conquest. My son assigns greater value to family and the establishment of his own family than he does to sex itself. Therefore a woman who only offers sex cannot compete with his wife. She is pretty, and she is also all those other things. And he gets sex on tap with the woman he loves too.

So the hoes are not going to outcompete that for him.

Character is most important. That is why.

 

[BaronOfHair]

To be honest it makes sense to an extent. Imagine someone who grew up as a top 1% all their life they most likely went to private schools, have had a life of comfort and luxury etc. Even if they were to meet some "Regular folk" the differences on how they were raised, values, etc would be very different

Yep. In any event, it's cagey for ALL of us to recognize that we're a brand, and that those whom we associate with will either increase our brand's strength, not advance it much at all, or denigrate most egregiously. Nowhere is this more true than whom we marry

 

[SW15]

how many modern day heterosexual men who are in good-excellent physical health(I.E. Their urge to nail everything with a heartbeat is pervasive)yet who married and began fathering kids in their early 20s will be content to confine themselves to one vagina by time the age of say, 28 rolls around?

I was not one of those guys in my early 20s. I wanted many different vaginas in my early 20s. At age 28, I still wanted many different vaginas.

I wasn't seeking a tradwife scenario at 28 either. At 28, that would have been near the end of the time when I would have been young enough to attract a young 20s woman who could have been a tradwife.

Emphasis on MAN. He is not ruled by his penis or the need for sexual conquest.

I have been ruled by my penis. It was worse when I was younger than it has been since age 35 or so.

The funny thing @SW15 is that I wasn't "trying" to get pregnant at all. I did get off birth control and once I did we took a laise faire attitude toward kids. If we had them, we had them. If we had more, we had more.

One of my friends took that laissez faire attitude towards having children when he got married. I mention this particular friend in this post when I was excluded from attending his wedding at the last minute in 2023. His fiancée didn't want me there.

Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere! Life When Your Blue Pill Social Circle Starts Having Babies

I attended a recent social circle gathering with both friends and acquaintances. These are the men who have been half of the equation of all of these recent pregnancies/births that have been detailed in this thread. It is rare to get the majority of this main group together. This social circle...

www.sosuave.net

Anyway, on the honeymoon, he got her pregnant. They didn't think it would be so easy to conceive she was 35 at the time. There had also been some infertility in our social circle with couples pursuing IVF.

We typically were sexually active at least once a day for the entirety of the relationship so frankly its kinda surprising we didn't have more than 3, lol.

This intrigues me. A lot of relationships fall apart due to a lack of sexual frequency. Even while that marriage was falling apart, the sexual frequency was common. Women usually do not have sex while they are losing attraction for their man and pondering a divorce filing.

Having 3 seems about right for that interaction. The sexual frequency was high but the participants were 30s/early 40s with decreased fertility.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Well my son will tell you that is determined by your character. Sure there are hot Jezebels everywhere but are they kind, feminine, submissive, modest, great bakers, great cooks, virgins, and nurturing mothers as well?

Hell no

Chances are high you'll write what I'm about to say off as a byproduct of my generally somber disposition. And I concede, there may be a grain of truth within such an assessment, NEVERTHELESS:

Even men of character are still flesh and blood mortals, and mortals in their 20s aren't renowned for their herculean feats of impulse control, ESPECIALLY when the chance to engage in Emmanuele-level hijinks in the boudoir are standing just a few feet away, at business trip to Las Vegas or Hong Kong. Virginity ceases to be a draw, once a fella becomes woke to the delights an adroit siren can deliver, via her tongue, hands, and butthole. Insofar as all that other stuff goes: When a man has risen even moderately high up the ladder, he can hire someone else(professional level) to do the cooking and baking, bring in a nanny for at least 70% of the childrearing, and find modesty overrated, once he's seen his "upgrade" lounge around the pool in a microbikini for all of one afternoon

Sounds a bit callous, when articulated as such, nonetheless I submit that for MOST men(And I'm completely sincere, when I say I hope your son is the exception to the rule, BE), this isn't THAT far from the truth. ESPECIALLY men who achieve some level of prosperity. That so many once-penniless guys leave the women who were with them during those lean years for more glamorous gals isn't just a fluke, nor is it the result of men just being insatiable sex fiends

The girl we thought was the best thing since sliced bread when we were in 1st grade back in Omaha, then married at 19, is often unfit for the lives we're embarking on in Manhattan and/or Westwood