Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

By 2030, 45% of American women will be single & childless

Bigpapa

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This definitely exists, and probably something you see a lot on the internet, but I think amongst the general population of young men this is relatively uncommon and not that norm. I think this particular issue is way more common with women than men, where their expectations are quite lofty and they constantly complain about their being "no good men". The thing is, the current dating culture allows them to get this way because they can still find validation and attention from men.



Again, I think is an issue you see way more with women than men. Using your obese example, women are not only told it's ok to be fat but to embrace it lol. I don't really see things like this where men should embrace body positivity when they look horrendous lol, there's a double standard haha.



I actually made a post about this on here not that long ago. A lot of guys that get into lifting honestly become obsessed with bench press numbers and getting as big as possible and literally become overweight and even obese, I see it a lot. Most of these guys and those that get into hardcore bodybuilding legitimately are functionally obese. Regardless of their body fat percentage, a lot of these guys would struggle with something like doing a rock wall climb, going for a hike or any sort of physical activity you could think of that normal fit people can do.

Not that long ago at one of the gyms I was going to I was having a conversation with a bro there and he mentioned how he wanted to bulk up to 300 pounds lol, to put this into perspective he was in his early to mid 30s and 6' tall. I asked him why and he mentioned something about wanting to bench press a lot of weight. I then made a comment about how at his age he should be careful with that because he could be putting himself at risk for high blood pressure or even a heart attack in his 40s lol. I don't think he took that comment very well because he acts like a douche to me when I see him lol.

As for the comments about what women find attractive. When it comes to your physique women aren't really as picky as some think. Most women are legitimately turned off by both the excessively lean look and the roided up, over muscled look. They like guys that have fit bodies, healthy body fat percentages, etc. Some guys are naturally more gifted with say proportional physiques, or where they have a small waist and broad shoulders, etc. However, if you are somewhere between a legitimate 10-20% bf and athletically built you are in great shape, though I'd say peak for aesthetics would be 10-15% bf. Most guys honestly struggle to maintain 10% bf, but even at under 15% you'll have a trim stomach and some degree of ab definition. If you were to take Brad Pitt and gave him a physique that is broader and with more muscle but say 15-17% bf, women would still find him attractive. It really doesn't make much of a difference.

At my height and frame, I consider myself a big guy and around 230ish right now, though not that long ago was around 240. If I was at 220 I'd have practically nothing left in regards to BF, and at 240+ I started getting a bit too high in body fa. Where I'm at I find is a perfect medium.



Not sure about this comment, if you are referring to t shirts that is. I'm 6'4" and I wear large shirts and I find they are the perfect fit and are typically tight(er) on my arms, chest and shoulders but very loose on my stomach. Jeans I go for a 36"x36-34"" but need a bigger pant because of my legs and glutes, meanwhile I'll have several inches of space around my stomach/hips if I were to pull the jeans away. 34s would be too damn tight for my legs and butt.
Yea, women are pickier than men and makes total sense to be so. It always was the case

That is why in the vast majority of cases you see guys dating at their own level or 1-2 points down

So if you are a 4 or a 5, you will mostly bang 2s and 3s ( sometime 4s and if your game is tight then at your level or if you are lucky 1 point above )

The only way to bang better quality is to improve your smv score and learn to at least be normal from a socialization standpoint

A good proportion of your smv is looks, but even looks can be improved here and there and get 1-2 points above if you really want to do it

Other things that improve your smv drastically is living a cool life. You can score 1-2 points from this too if done properly

You can get also extra 1-2 points if you are not boring like the vast majority of guys, basically being a good conversationalist

The truth is that even if you are ugly, with a lot of effort you can improve your smv with at least 2 points and have access to better girls

At the end of the day is a matter of will power
 
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sangheilios

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Yea, women are pickier than men and makes total sense to be so. It always was the case

That is why in the vast majority of cases you see guys dating at their own level or 1-2 points down

So if you are a 4 or a 5, you will mostly bang 2s and 3s ( sometime 4s and if your game is tight then at your level or if you are lucky 1 point above )

The only way to bang better quality is to improve your smv score and learn to at least be normal from a socialization standpoint
I think the biggest issue is that women are much pickier than what you would have saw historically, it's to the point where a decent number of men are legitimately struggling to get anything or are totally left out all together. This is due to overabundance, or at least the perception of it, due to social media, dating apps, etc. Why would Jenny go for Lars who is 6' tall, moderately fit and decently attractive when she thinks she can land Dolph who is 6'4", well above average in fitness and decently attractive? It's a weird and endless cycle that also leads to women far too readily nexting men that should be acceptable to her. You add this with the fact that a decent percentage of women are chasing unavailable men, effectively taking themselves out of the market, you have even fewer women available that men are chasing after, thus making them pickier and more selective.

With your example of 4/5 dating 2/3, you basically have average men going for well below average women. So let's quantify these numbers. 1= bottom 10%, 2=20%, 9=90% etc. You literally are going to have about 30% of men going for 10% of women lol, as that's all that is available to them AT BEST. I also think it can be difficult to directly quantify this, as women have a variety of types they go for. An above average black man may struggle with white women for instance simply because many don't date them lol.

I'm in my 30s now, but as a white male that 6'4", 230 and fit I see that I'm taller and in better shape than the majority of men at any gym, let alone compared to the general public. I consider myself above average but even I've found I've had issues with the dating market. I could go for some chubby woman or worse, but I don't because we'd have literally nothing in common lol AND I'm not attracted to them. However, I've tried forcing myself to go for women like this and it still didn't amount to much. If I have issues with this, I can't imagine what it's like for a legitimately average guy, let alone one that is below average lol.
 

Bigpapa

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I think the biggest issue is that women are much pickier than what you would have saw historically, it's to the point where a decent number of men are legitimately struggling to get anything or are totally left out all together. This is due to overabundance, or at least the perception of it, due to social media, dating apps, etc. Why would Jenny go for Lars who is 6' tall, moderately fit and decently attractive when she thinks she can land Dolph who is 6'4", well above average in fitness and decently attractive? It's a weird and endless cycle that also leads to women far too readily nexting men that should be acceptable to her. You add this with the fact that a decent percentage of women are chasing unavailable men, effectively taking themselves out of the market, you have even fewer women available that men are chasing after, thus making them pickier and more selective.

With your example of 4/5 dating 2/3, you basically have average men going for well below average women. So let's quantify these numbers. 1= bottom 10%, 2=20%, 9=90% etc. You literally are going to have about 30% of men going for 10% of women lol, as that's all that is available to them AT BEST.

I'm in my 30s now, but as a white male that 6'4", 230 and fit I see that I'm taller and in better shape than the majority of men at any gym, let alone compared to the general public. I consider myself above average but even I've found I've had issues with the dating market. I could go for some chubby woman or worse, but I don't because we'd have literally nothing in common lol AND I'm not attracted to them. However, I've tried forcing myself to go for women like this and it still didn't amount to much. If I have issues with this, I can't imagine what it's like for a legitimately average guy, let alone one that is below average lol.
Dude, women do not view this like you

For them is more like a minimum threshold that you have to pass

Sure, a guy that is drastically better than you can out compete you, but usually it is not the case, because if she would have access to way better guys than you the minimum threshold will go up too

If you are a boring guy, like the vast majority of guys, she will not go with things forward because for sure there 1-2 guys who maybe in smv are at your level but they are way better conversationalists than you are

You mentioned in previous posts that you have some issues from a socializing point of view, for sure those things that you do not fix are dragging you down and not brad Pitt in his prime banging your prospects

In the multitude of options that women have, women will not waste time with a guy that they know from the get go that he has no chance

Would you talk with fatties if you have a decent amount of prospects that are way better looking than the fatties. Very likely no, unless you have mental problems. Women are the same
 

sangheilios

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Dude, women do not view this like you

For them is more like a minimum threshold that you have to pass

Sure, a guy that is drastically better than you can out compete you, but usually it is not the case, because if she would have access to way better guys than you the minimum threshold will go up too

If you are a boring guy, like the vast majority of guys, she will not go with things forward because for sure there 1-2 guys who maybe in smv are at your level but they are way better conversationalists than you are

You mentioned in previous posts that you have some issues from a socializing point of view, for sure those things that you do not fix are dragging you down and not brad Pitt in his prime banging your prospects

In the multitude of options that women have, women will not waste time with a guy that they know from the get go that he has no chance

Would you talk with fatties if you have a decent amount of prospects that are way better looking than the fatties. Very likely no, unless you have mental problems. Women are the same
I wasn't really using myself as an example.

I agree with some of your parts on here. We also haven't even brought up personal compatibility.

Maybe her type is 6'+ and blonde and muscular, but she meets a guy like this and she doesn't understand his humor or maybe he has some quirk that bothers her lol. Maybe you fit her basic standards but you don't have any real shared interests or hobbies for instance.

The modern dating market is much more difficult compared to what you saw in the past. Not sure how old you are, but you can find people that were boomers or older and listen to them describe how they found their spouses. Very often all it took was something as simple as a smile and hi lol, next thing you know they are married and have children. Today, many women have really crazy expectations where it's supposed to go story book perfect or where the guy needs to have a bunch of points checked off on her list. This isn't a dig at you specifically, but I think a lot of people on this forum severely underestimate the commonality and severity of what I'm discussing here.
 

SW15

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many women have really crazy expectations where it's supposed to go story book perfect or where the guy needs to have a bunch of points checked off on her list. I think a lot of people on this forum severely underestimate the commonality and severity of what I'm discussing here.
Agree. I talk about how women need to have "all the feelz" right away due to their abundance.

I think the biggest issue is that women are much pickier than what you would have saw historically, it's to the point where a decent number of men are legitimately struggling to get anything or are totally left out all together. This is due to overabundance, or at least the perception of it, due to social media, dating apps, etc. Why would Jenny go for Lars who is 6' tall, moderately fit and decently attractive when she thinks she can land Dolph who is 6'4", well above average in fitness and decently attractive? It's a weird and endless cycle that also leads to women far too readily nexting men that should be acceptable to her. You add this with the fact that a decent percentage of women are chasing unavailable men, effectively taking themselves out of the market, you have even fewer women available that men are chasing after, thus making them pickier and more selective.
Correct. Women have never been as fussy historically as they are today.

I'm in my 30s now, but as a white male that 6'4", 230 and fit I see that I'm taller and in better shape than the majority of men at any gym, let alone compared to the general public. I consider myself above average but even I've found I've had issues with the dating market. I could go for some chubby woman or worse, but I don't because we'd have literally nothing in common lol AND I'm not attracted to them. However, I've tried forcing myself to go for women like this and it still didn't amount to much. If I have issues with this, I can't imagine what it's like for a legitimately average guy, let alone one that is below average lol.
White, 6'4", and 230 lbs with a muscular frame is a Chad type physique. You have had the potential to be the top seducer on the SoSuave forum based on those stats. Yet you've told many stories about struggling in the dating market with women who are close to your looks level in a variety of different places in life, both bar and non-bar venues.

There's no reason for a fit guy to go for an overweight woman.
 

sangheilios

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Agree. I talk about how women need to have "all the feelz" right away due to their abundance.



Correct. Women have never been as fussy historically as they are today.



White, 6'4", and 230 lbs with a muscular frame is a Chad type physique. You have had the potential to be the top seducer on the SoSuave forum based on those stats. Yet you've told many stories about struggling in the dating market with women who are close to your looks level in a variety of different places in life, both bar and non-bar venues.

There's no reason for a fit guy to go for an overweight woman.
Honestly, it's not even really because of the appearance of an overweight woman but more so due to a lack of commonality. I like to go hiking and doing physical active hobbies, it's very likely a fat girl does NOT enjoy those lol. I like to eat good and take care of myself, it's like a fat girl does NOT have the same lifestyle lol. I'm not even really sure what a typical lifestyle or hobbies or interests for an average fat girl look like lol.
 

SW15

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I'm not even really sure what a typical lifestyle or hobbies or interests for an average fat girl look like lol.
Watching video and eating

I like to go hiking and doing physical active hobbies, it's very likely a fat girl does NOT enjoy those lol. I like to eat good and take care of myself, it's like a fat girl does NOT have the same lifestyle lol.
Fat females would not tend to enjoy most physically active hobbies. Good luck taking a fat woman on a moderate or strenuous hike.
 

Bigpapa

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I wasn't really using myself as an example.

I agree with some of your parts on here. We also haven't even brought up personal compatibility.

Maybe her type is 6'+ and blonde and muscular, but she meets a guy like this and she doesn't understand his humor or maybe he has some quirk that bothers her lol. Maybe you fit her basic standards but you don't have any real shared interests or hobbies for instance.

The modern dating market is much more difficult compared to what you saw in the past. Not sure how old you are, but you can find people that were boomers or older and listen to them describe how they found their spouses. Very often all it took was something as simple as a smile and hi lol, next thing you know they are married and have children. Today, many women have really crazy expectations where it's supposed to go story book perfect or where the guy needs to have a bunch of points checked off on her list. This isn't a dig at you specifically, but I think a lot of people on this forum severely underestimate the commonality and severity of what I'm discussing here.
I will be 34 soon

Guess what, most of my relationships started like you described with a smile and a hello

It comes back like @The Duke mentioned, if you are a loser you can not expect a woman that is not a loser to find you a good match

Most women these days are in the corporate environment, they want a guy that is also there or close to that

That is why most of the times lawyer women marry lawyer men or someone that they do business with

Or doctor women marrying other doctor men

Actresses marrying actors

Sure if you are really exceptional she can make an exception for you as long as you are good in whatever you are doing

Etc
 

sangheilios

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I will be 34 soon

Guess what, most of my relationships started like you described with a smile and a hello

It comes back like @The Duke mentioned, if you are a loser you can not expect a woman that is not a loser to find you a good match

Most women these days are in the corporate environment, they want a guy that is also there or close to that

That is why most of the times lawyer women marry lawyer men or someone that they do business with

Or doctor women marrying other doctor men

Actresses marrying actors

Sure if you are really exceptional she can make an exception for you as long as you are good in whatever you are doing

Etc
Bro, I agree with this but the dating market is way more competitive now than ever. Hell, even in our lifetime since we would have been teens we can see a huge shift towards this. Tons of stats out there that are showing substantial portions of young men are sexless. Women are far pickier and demand more than what you would have saw with older generations of women lol. I've repeated this a million times on here.

The thing is, many women aren't really all that exceptional but they believe they are and therefore think they are too good for men roughly on their level. This is something you'll see a lot with career women especially.
 

sangheilios

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Watching video and eating



Fat females would not tend to enjoy most physically active hobbies. Good luck taking a fat woman on a moderate or strenuous hike.
Do women even really have hobbies or interests typically or is that considered unusual?
 

Fortune_favors_the_bold

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Zero sympathy for that demographics (women aged 28-40), they are basically the leading voting block that dragged western society to the sh1t hole it's heading wheter we talk about economics, culture, justice or else.

Regarding the forum related point of view, they offer no scarsity or scarsity related value given that women in their 30s are available to any decent men willing to commit...they are way far away in terms of value from fresh and brand new girls in their 20s with limited baggage and damages.

They are generally a pain in the ass to deal with, they have the princess mindset of the previous generation with all the mental bugs of the following one.
 

Bigpapa

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The thing is, many women aren't really all that exceptional but they believe they are and therefore think they are too good for men roughly on their level. This is something you'll see a lot with career women especially.
Yes and that is why a good proportion of these women are single, and occasionally having sex with some guy above their league that ghosts them after

But even these women after a while will become desperate enough and settle with a guy at their level :)

I see this all the time, girls that were picky and ending up with some boring average guy

Girls after 28 start to look like sh1t, by the time they are 32 they do not even resemble to how they looked in their early 20s

Now, it is fair that the guys get them towards the expiration date? Nope but this is how life is :)

Young and qualitative p8ssy is in high demand and you fight not only with the guys her age but also guys who are maybe even 10-15 years senior her age
 
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sangheilios

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Yes and that is why a good proportion of these women are single, and occasionally having sex with some guy above their league that ghosts them after

But even these women after a while will become desperate enough and settle with a guy at their level :)

I see this all the time, girls that were picky and ending up with some boring average guy
Yeah, I think I said on this thread earlier that there's something wrong with a woman if she still can't find a man given how readily they give out their attention and interest.
 

SW15

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Do women even really have hobbies or interests typically or is that considered unusual?
Most sports tend to be sausage fests, even the female friendly ones. Fitness class formats tend to be more female than male.
 

itouchyou

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The goal of the deep state is to diminish the traditional family as well as population. They want more people dependent on government but there’s too many people to make that viable. Why do you think marriage rates are declining rapidly? Birth rates are following. If you don’t think the government is manipulating the dating market you’re sadly mistaken.
Can you explain why they are allowing millions of illegal immigrants into the country who breed like rabbits if your depopulation theory is true? I'm not looking for how they help the economy or how they want to gain more democrat voters but specifically if they really wanted to diminish the population why would they support these freeloaders.

The deep state is not stupid, the entire world's population can fit in the size of Texas or something similar. The reason they want declining marriage rates is for political and control reasons, it has nothing to do with depopulation. Latinos, Indians, and other races are offsetting any and all population loss from wealthy white and other anglo races which is what they desire because the former are more easily controlled.

Also how are they manipulating the dating market? Are they controlling online dating algorithms? The only thing they can consciously be doing in media is pushing interracial marriages.

They want declining populations of free thinking hard to control citizens. Not low IQ poor weak people.
 

itouchyou

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Also it's comical how many older women here in NYC have dogs. They literally talk to them and treat them like children. Nearly always career women who are perpetually going out on dates.
 

SW15

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it's comical how many older women here in NYC have dogs. They literally talk to them and treat them like children. Nearly always career women who are perpetually going out on dates.
Millennial women started to change dog ownership in the 2000s. These older women you talk about now are likely early Millennials in their late 30s/early 40s who were leading the dog ownership revolution in the 2000s.

Prior to the Millennials reaching adulthood in the 2000s, dog ownership was typically a thing done by people who were already married and living in a single family house. The Millennials changed all that and it was a revolution led by Millennial women. Millennial women didn't want to wait until they were married to start getting pets, especially dogs. Millennial women were the first large generation of single women to own pets before marriage.

A lot of the aging Millennial women now in their late 30s/early 40s are on their second generation of pets. Yes, these are often career women.
 

sangheilios

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Can you explain why they are allowing millions of illegal immigrants into the country who breed like rabbits if your depopulation theory is true? I'm not looking for how they help the economy or how they want to gain more democrat voters but specifically if they really wanted to diminish the population why would they support these freeloaders.

The deep state is not stupid, the entire world's population can fit in the size of Texas or something similar. The reason they want declining marriage rates is for political and control reasons, it has nothing to do with depopulation. Latinos, Indians, and other races are offsetting any and all population loss from wealthy white and other anglo races which is what they desire because the former are more easily controlled.

Also how are they manipulating the dating market? Are they controlling online dating algorithms? The only thing they can consciously be doing in media is pushing interracial marriages.

They want declining populations of free thinking hard to control citizens. Not low IQ poor weak people.
I've had a lot of conversations pertaining to this topic and much of the ideas are controversial. I also believe that what you are mentioning about these other races being more easily controlled has a ton of merit. There are a lot of cultural elements to this but also financial, white people in America are overwhelmingly more likely to be in the middle class or higher.

Another theory that makes sense to me is to mass import people for cheap labor. A lot of these people from the 3rd world are willing to take on work that the average American would not do, and they'll also do this for peanuts lol. You could literally pay these people the federal minimum wage and they'll work in places with horrendous conditions and/or very high work demands. Some good examples would be certain types of agricultural work, slaughter houses, etc.

I don't think the whole democrat voter thing really has any merit unless they basically could just use them to mass print mail in ballots, like what happened in 2020. Most of these people can't even read and have no real concept of anything going on, they'd be too busy trying to make ends meet instead of concerning themselves about voting.

A theory that I personally have is that the left has this idea that there needs to be more diversity, inclusivity, etc. The mass importation of non white individuals from the 3rd world is one means of forcing these beliefs.
 
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MatureDJ

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I'm in my 30s now, but as a white male that 6'4", 230 and fit I see that I'm taller and in better shape than the majority of men at any gym, let alone compared to the general public. I consider myself above average but even I've found I've had issues with the dating market. I could go for some chubby woman or worse, but I don't because we'd have literally nothing in common lol AND I'm not attracted to them. However, I've tried forcing myself to go for women like this and it still didn't amount to much. If I have issues with this, I can't imagine what it's like for a legitimately average guy, let alone one that is below average lol.
It's OVER - that's what's it's like. :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

MatureDJ

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Millennial women started to change dog ownership in the 2000s. These older women you talk about now are likely early Millennials in their late 30s/early 40s who were leading the dog ownership revolution in the 2000s.

Prior to the Millennials reaching adulthood in the 2000s, dog ownership was typically a thing done by people who were already married and living in a single family house. The Millennials changed all that and it was a revolution led by Millennial women. Millennial women didn't want to wait until they were married to start getting pets, especially dogs. Millennial women were the first large generation of single women to own pets before marriage.

A lot of the aging Millennial women now in their late 30s/early 40s are on their second generation of pets. Yes, these are often career women.
 
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