High Conflict People

[oldmanofthesea]

Great article here on high-conflict people.

4 Red Flags of a High-Conflict Partner

Personality awareness can help people spot signs of future difficulties.

www.psychologytoday.com

High conflict people (HCPs) tend to have four primary characteristics: 1) Preoccupation with blaming others; 2) all-or-nothing thinking and solutions; 3) unmanaged or intense emotions; and 4) extreme behavior and/or threats. This is not a diagnosis, but rather a description of conflict behavior. However, those with high conflict personality patterns often have personality disorders, which is a diagnosis. This means that they have an enduring pattern of dysfunctional interpersonal behavior.

The personality disorders prone to high conflict behavior are the Cluster B personalities: narcissistic, borderline, antisocial, histrionic; and paranoid from Cluster A. However, many people (perhaps half) with these disorders do not have a high conflict personality pattern because they are not preoccupied with blaming other specific people. They just can’t see their own part in the problems they have and therefore don’t try to change.

I just got out of a relationship with one of these people. My ex wife also fits into this category too.

I'm posting this here to share these four red flags that you should look out for. I will say one thing that makes it difficult to eject from relationships with these women is that in my experience, nearly all women portray these characteristics to SOME degree. So one has to wonder just where to draw the line while not disqualifying literally every single woman on the planet. I've taken the approach of simply drawing my own boundaries based solely on what I'm willing to deal with, while understanding all women are emotional creatures so there will always be some emotions I have to deal with.

 

[bat soup]

Great article here on high-conflict people.

4 Red Flags of a High-Conflict Partner

Personality awareness can help people spot signs of future difficulties.

www.psychologytoday.com

High conflict people (HCPs) tend to have four primary characteristics: 1) Preoccupation with blaming others; 2) all-or-nothing thinking and solutions; 3) unmanaged or intense emotions; and 4) extreme behavior and/or threats. This is not a diagnosis, but rather a description of conflict behavior. However, those with high conflict personality patterns often have personality disorders, which is a diagnosis. This means that they have an enduring pattern of dysfunctional interpersonal behavior.

The personality disorders prone to high conflict behavior are the Cluster B personalities: narcissistic, borderline, antisocial, histrionic; and paranoid from Cluster A. However, many people (perhaps half) with these disorders do not have a high conflict personality pattern because they are not preoccupied with blaming other specific people. They just can’t see their own part in the problems they have and therefore don’t try to change.

I just got out of a relationship with one of these people. My ex wife also fits into this category too.

I'm posting this here to share these four red flags that you should look out for. I will say one thing that makes it difficult to eject from relationships with these women is that in my experience, nearly all women portray these characteristics to SOME degree. So one has to wonder just where to draw the line while not disqualifying literally every single woman on the planet. I've taken the approach of simply drawing my own boundaries based solely on what I'm willing to deal with, while understanding all women are emotional creatures so there will always be some emotions I have to deal with.

In general, losers always blame others for their problems.

If you meet someone that tells you that their problems are someone else's fault, steer clear

 

[oldmanofthesea]

In general, losers always blame others for their problems.

If you meet someone that tells you that their problems are someone else's fault, steer clear

I agree completely. When someone is always judging other people, complaining about other people and things and situations - friends, co-workers, bosses, whatever, it's a huge red flag. These people will turn to targeting those CLOSEST to them, so if you get into an intimate relationship with them, you will become the target of all their anger and unhappiness. Most often it starts out the opposite - they view you as the answer to all their problems and so things seem so wonderful and incredible with them, like you found the one! But you start hearing them complain about other people, and as their comfort level with you increases, so do the complaints, and before you know it, you then become the target of their complaints.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I agree completely. When someone is always judging other people, complaining about other people and things and situations - friends, co-workers, bosses, whatever, it's a huge red flag. These people will turn to targeting those CLOSEST to them, so if you get into an intimate relationship with them, you will become the target of all their anger and unhappiness. Most often it starts out the opposite - they view you as the answer to all their problems and so things seem so wonderful and incredible with them, like you found the one! But you start hearing them complain about other people, and as their comfort level with you increases, so do the complaints, and before you know it, you then become the target of their complaints.

Crabs in a barrel

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Dude this is more leftist ideologue propaganda. Lol jeezus where is there no conflict in nature?
You guys listen.... its about what you tolerate or don't. There is shytty azz behavior out here ....its just the way it is.
As a man pick and choose when....like at your employer....but don't have it in your own home.
I can't stomach these writers that write this garbage.
Conflict starts when you wake up in the morning...

You are right, the sword or spear are a part of every culture, however, the idea being discussed here is in relation to a woman who we are sharing space with and that really isn't a place for conflict, but communication.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Dude you can't communicate verbally with a girl. Not directly... Get that idea out of your head. She is gas lighting you everyday. And you are her.
The only time you are direct with a women is when you give them a direct command. As in being serious with her.

You got a deadline or wont be able to make it to do such and such or pickuo such and such...you tell her to do it etc etc...if needed. Some do this naturally.
All the other times should be fun and light hearted fcking around.

If she is being the emotional one and is spilling something shut up at those times and just listen. Say nothing

Your preaching to the choir bud

Ubiquity: The 7% rule

In 1971, Albert Mehrabian published a book Silent Messages, in which he discussed his research on non-verbal communication. He concluded that prospects based their assessments of credibility on factors other than the words the salesperson spoke---the prospects studied assigned 55 percent of...

ubiquity.acm.org

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Gtfo out of here with that lol

You should read it

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Ok Choir do this... spend 3 days with your girlfriend or wife. Communicate with her but DONT LOOK AT HER FACE. Acknowledge but don't look choir. See what happens... lol choir you think huh

I sense frustration.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

I'm the happiest motherfcker you will meet today. Don't believe me just try it.

The man who communicates more with women with his mouth is the man who doesn't understand women.

Is that why you are defensive, because you understand women?

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Dude this is more leftist ideologue propaganda. Lol jeezus where is there no conflict in nature?
You guys listen.... its about what you tolerate or don't. There is shytty azz behavior out here ....its just the way it is.
As a man pick and choose when....like at your employer....but don't have it in your own home.
I can't stomach these writers that write this garbage.
Conflict starts when you wake up in the morning...

What about the article has so turned you off, exactly? The author isn't saying all conflict is bad, or that ANY amount of it is bad. He is identifying a specific pattern that some people with personality disorders have, so that you can be aware of the signs before they become a direct problem to you, so you don't waste time on them.

In my case, I set firm boundaries with this woman and those boundaries ultimately led me to dump her. However, had I paid more attention to the signs early on (signs which did not cause conflict between her and I because she was talking about other people), I could have saved myself some time by ejecting sooner.

So what exactly has the author said that you disagree with?

 

[logicallefty]

I think articles like this have some value on this forum, especially for younger people. There are two areas of study that every man should learn about by early 20s; psychology and law. I have said this here on SS before, more than once. I am not saying become a psychology professional or lawyer. I am saying take some time and learn a few things about these two subjects at a young age and you will use it all your life. My only regret is not doing this advice myself before my mid 30s. If I had, a few things in my life at later years would have went way better.

 

[Barrister]

What about the article has so turned you off, exactly? The author isn't saying all conflict is bad, or that ANY amount of it is bad. He is identifying a specific pattern that some people with personality disorders have, so that you can be aware of the signs before they become a direct problem to you, so you don't waste time on them.

In my case, I set firm boundaries with this woman and those boundaries ultimately led me to dump her. However, had I paid more attention to the signs early on (signs which did not cause conflict between her and I because she was talking about other people), I could have saved myself some time by ejecting sooner.

So what exactly has the author said that you disagree with?

I am going through this very thing right now. Recently broke up. But Wish I would’ve ejected much sooner. Boundaries were being crossed and I let them for the sake of “getting along” and not appearing too controlling. But in reality there were things that I should have made much clearer and firmer from the start.

And now it’s harder to move on even from a toxic relationship once you’ve been in it so long. Even when you know ejecting was the right move.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

I am going through this very thing right now. Recently broke up. But Wish I would’ve ejected much sooner. Boundaries were being crossed and I let them for the sake of “getting along” and not appearing too controlling. But in reality there were things that I should have made much clearer and firmer from the start.

And now it’s harder to move on even from a toxic relationship once you’ve been in it so long. Even when you know ejecting was the right move.

Boundaries must be set early and preferably not in response, means having the foresight to see the problems.

The thing is, I think most women want to just run with the Honeymoon Phase where a guy doesn't feel comfortable setting boundaries and when he does, she just moves on to a guy without boundaries.

Setting boundaries is almost a deal breaker at times, but it is what it is.

 

[Dash Riprock]

After decades in the dating game, relationship success of any type boils down to two main areas:

-(Verbal) Communication Skills
-Symbiotic Problem Solving

And they are strongly linked.

After you get to know a woman a bit, take a deeper look at her historical patterns of each regarding relationships with former husband/boyfriend, co-workers, friends, and people in general.

A leopard (usually) doesn't change its spots. People can change however, but it takes incredible humility and effort which 99% of the population just doesn't possess.

Successful people--and losers--both leave footprints. It's up to you and no one else to determine whose to follow.

Good luck.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I am going through this very thing right now. Recently broke up. But Wish I would’ve ejected much sooner. Boundaries were being crossed and I let them for the sake of “getting along” and not appearing too controlling. But in reality there were things that I should have made much clearer and firmer from the start.

And now it’s harder to move on even from a toxic relationship once you’ve been in it so long. Even when you know ejecting was the right move.

Sorry to hear it brother. How long were you together? What boundaries was she crossing early-on?

As I have been applying red pill principles these last four years, I can look back and say with confidence and pride that I did a fantastic job setting boundaries with the girl I just broke up with. We dated for a year. But as I sit here now and reflect back and wonder what lessons I have learned, I think a lot of men beat themselves up over not seeing certain things when those things may only be clear with the advantage of hindsight. In the case of the girl I dated, the red flags were:

1) Preoccupation with blaming others;
She was quite judgmental of other people. This didn't impact me initially, but it began to once she started judging my friends. Her goal was to try to separate me from them and isolate me, and she started that effort by slowly bringing up criticisms of my friends. She was very clever about this though - instead of just outright criticizing them, she would come up with a reason why she was a victim of my friends - that they were treating her poorly and making her feel bad. This was harder for me to deal with because there was SOME truth to it..... not much, just a kernel, but because the kernel was there, it isn't something I could just dismiss. In her case, it wasn't that they were treating her poorly, it was more that they weren't reaching out to her 1:1 and trying to establish direct friendships with her. In the first year of dating someone, I don't really expect my friends to communicate 1:1 with my GF when I'm not around. There is too much risk there - what if we don't work out? Then there are implications. But my friends were always nice to her in-person. This friend thing ended up being the nail in the coffin when she finally gave me an ultimatum that I either keep my friends, or I keep her, but I couldn't keep both. That made it very easy for me. Prior to the ultimatum, I dealt with her constant comments about how many text messages I would get from my friends, or how many times I would hang out with them, or judgements about how many precautions we were or were not taking for COVID, etc.

She also had a lot of complaints about people she worked with. Some she loved, some she hated. But it seemed like she strongly disliked people more than she liked people. Again, didn't cause an issue for me but was a red flag.

2) all-or-nothing thinking and solutions;

See above - I either love you or I hate you. It's either me or your friends. She also demanded I block all my exes on social media (of course I did not comply).

3) unmanaged or intense emotions;

So all women have these.... the issue is being realistic with how much you can deal with vs the very nature of women. If you set the bar high enough, literally no women will qualify for you. This girl was so triggered by hearing literally anything about my exes, that it could cause panic attacks, multi-day anger spells, and she would bring it up all the time. Explosive anger. The biggest red flag I chose to ignore here is that 3 months in, she found out through open and honest conversation that I was casually dating a girl at the same time I was dating her during the first month when we weren't exclusive. When she found out she had a complete melt-down, cried for hours, couldn't sleep all night, and really never got past it. Yet over the course of our relationship I found out she was talking to THREE dudes at that point in time too, yet there were always reasons why it was "different" for her.

She was also extremely jealous of my platonic female friends - specifically the attractive ones. She really wanted to isolate me from them and was always suggesting that they were just waiting for their opportunity to tear me away from her.

I didn't budge on any of these things, but I also didn't cut her loose like I should have after seeing this behavior. A part of why I probably didn't was that I took her behavior to mean extremely high interest in me, which was a mistake - it really had nothing to do with me and everything to do with her own insecurity and jealousy.

4) extreme behavior and/or threats

In her case, the extreme behavior manifested itself as in #3 above which was being highly reactive to things that didn't call for it.

After you get to know a woman a bit, take a deeper look at her historical patterns of each regarding relationships with former husband/boyfriend, co-workers, friends, and people in general.

I agree and do try to do this but I have realized that many women lie straight through their teeth about their relationships with current and past people. And they can be extremely convincing with their lies because many unhealthy women truly believe in their minds, that things went down a certain way. The girl I just dumped told me she had never been dumped before and she was always the one to have ended all her past relationships. Yet I dumped her, and she is nuts..... I bet you she tells her next BF that she ended things with me, and I bet you she really believes that too.

 

[samspade]

I am going through this very thing right now. Recently broke up. But Wish I would’ve ejected much sooner. Boundaries were being crossed and I let them for the sake of “getting along” and not appearing too controlling. But in reality there were things that I should have made much clearer and firmer from the start.

And now it’s harder to move on even from a toxic relationship once you’ve been in it so long. Even when you know ejecting was the right move.

Went through a relationship like this. I saw you are posting in the NC thread too so kudos to you for doing your best. One thing I learned was with a chick like this, if you establish a strong boundary she'll soften up quickly and make "amends" to keep you around. You've REALLY got to be willing to walk away, sometimes that's easier said than done when she seems sincere. Then the whole cycle repeats itself, but it gets worse every time. The fog of relationship war.

For my ex it was always someone else's fault. Not just for major problems, but she went out of her way to complain to waiters, store clerks, etc., etc. Always seeking restitution instead of just saving the time and energy to forget it. Everything was an injustice. And if she could get you tangled up in her little world of anger, all the better. She'd do it with me, her mom, her coworkers, whatever. I'd start anticipating fights mentally before they happen. Now that's a mindfukk.

However for me it was easy to move on because I'd been breaking up with her for years, lol. I was never so happy to block someone. But that was me. Hang in there. If it's any consolation, mine reached out to me on LinkedIn and I totally ignored her miserable a$$, knowing she probably took it out on whatever sorry sap she was dating by then.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

One thing I learned was with a chick like this, if you establish a strong boundary she'll soften up quickly and make "amends" to keep you around. You've REALLY got to be willing to walk away, sometimes that's easier said than done when she seems sincere. Then the whole cycle repeats itself, but it gets worse every time. The fog of relationship war.

This is so spot-on. The girl I just dumped was the first girl I can REALLY look back on and say I established and enforced boundaries nearly flawlessly. And it worked...... and just like you said, she would soften up and make amends to keep me around. However, in her case, she wouldn't do this quickly. In nearly each case of boundary violation, I would first verbally communicate the boundary and stand my ground, which she would then push back on 100% of the time and try to argue non-stop until she got her way. When I wouldn't argue, my only tool then would be to employ silence and distance, which I did and it worked great but she absolutely HATED it because it rendered her manipulation tactics useless. You can't argue with a person who isn't talking to you. This would cause her to come around and apologize eventually. If she kept trying to argue, I'd tell her I'm not changing my mind, I've heard everything she has to say, and if she keeps up the fight, I'm going to walk away from the relationship because it isn't what I want. In this case, she would always come back and apologize and say she would change, etc, but then she would never implement that changes and it would be right back to where we began. She really did seem sincere in her promises though. And yes, exactly as you say, the cycle gets worse each time. She even started targeting my employing silence and distance, in order to try to guilt/shame me for using that tool so I wouldn't continue using it, but I held firm on that too. I explained that if she violates my boundaries and I communicate it to her but she persists, the only two things I have left are to take space or end the relationship, and I'm not going to give up either of those options.

I gave her a handful of chances. She blew it. So it's done.

 

[Romanemp22]

Also very stupid or low IQ persons are highly conflict ones.
The more person is mindful the less you want or get into conflict situations.

But ofcourse there are larger scale behind that, mommy or daddy issues, craving for attention. Sad persons really.

 

[Barrister]

Sorry to hear it brother. How long were you together? What boundaries was she crossing early-on?

As I have been applying red pill principles these last four years, I can look back and say with confidence and pride that I did a fantastic job setting boundaries with the girl I just broke up with. We dated for a year. But as I sit here now and reflect back and wonder what lessons I have learned, I think a lot of men beat themselves up over not seeing certain things when those things may only be clear with the advantage of hindsight. In the case of the girl I dated, the red flags were:

1) Preoccupation with blaming others;
She was quite judgmental of other people. This didn't impact me initially, but it began to once she started judging my friends. Her goal was to try to separate me from them and isolate me, and she started that effort by slowly bringing up criticisms of my friends. She was very clever about this though - instead of just outright criticizing them, she would come up with a reason why she was a victim of my friends - that they were treating her poorly and making her feel bad. This was harder for me to deal with because there was SOME truth to it..... not much, just a kernel, but because the kernel was there, it isn't something I could just dismiss. In her case, it wasn't that they were treating her poorly, it was more that they weren't reaching out to her 1:1 and trying to establish direct friendships with her. In the first year of dating someone, I don't really expect my friends to communicate 1:1 with my GF when I'm not around. There is too much risk there - what if we don't work out? Then there are implications. But my friends were always nice to her in-person. This friend thing ended up being the nail in the coffin when she finally gave me an ultimatum that I either keep my friends, or I keep her, but I couldn't keep both. That made it very easy for me. Prior to the ultimatum, I dealt with her constant comments about how many text messages I would get from my friends, or how many times I would hang out with them, or judgements about how many precautions we were or were not taking for COVID, etc.

She also had a lot of complaints about people she worked with. Some she loved, some she hated. But it seemed like she strongly disliked people more than she liked people. Again, didn't cause an issue for me but was a red flag.

2) all-or-nothing thinking and solutions;

See above - I either love you or I hate you. It's either me or your friends. She also demanded I block all my exes on social media (of course I did not comply).

3) unmanaged or intense emotions;

So all women have these.... the issue is being realistic with how much you can deal with vs the very nature of women. If you set the bar high enough, literally no women will qualify for you. This girl was so triggered by hearing literally anything about my exes, that it could cause panic attacks, multi-day anger spells, and she would bring it up all the time. Explosive anger. The biggest red flag I chose to ignore here is that 3 months in, she found out through open and honest conversation that I was casually dating a girl at the same time I was dating her during the first month when we weren't exclusive. When she found out she had a complete melt-down, cried for hours, couldn't sleep all night, and really never got past it. Yet over the course of our relationship I found out she was talking to THREE dudes at that point in time too, yet there were always reasons why it was "different" for her.

She was also extremely jealous of my platonic female friends - specifically the attractive ones. She really wanted to isolate me from them and was always suggesting that they were just waiting for their opportunity to tear me away from her.

I didn't budge on any of these things, but I also didn't cut her loose like I should have after seeing this behavior. A part of why I probably didn't was that I took her behavior to mean extremely high interest in me, which was a mistake - it really had nothing to do with me and everything to do with her own insecurity and jealousy.

4) extreme behavior and/or threats

In her case, the extreme behavior manifested itself as in #3 above which was being highly reactive to things that didn't call for it.



I agree and do try to do this but I have realized that many women lie straight through their teeth about their relationships with current and past people. And they can be extremely convincing with their lies because many unhealthy women truly believe in their minds, that things went down a certain way. The girl I just dumped told me she had never been dumped before and she was always the one to have ended all her past relationships. Yet I dumped her, and she is nuts..... I bet you she tells her next BF that she ended things with me, and I bet you she really believes that too.

Boundaries she was crossing were as follows (I will model it after yours):

1. Lack of Relationship with my Daughter

I had made this point clear from the beginning that I wanted her to have a positive relationship with my daughter. I didn't expect her to be mommy or anything, but I wanted her to be someone my daughter could look up to. I also told her that I would like her to spend time with us when she had the chance, not that I expected her to ALWAYS be with us, but to make an effort to come over and be with us. Neither of these things occurred over the course of 2.5 years. Instead, she made excuses that she "tried" but that it was "up to me to always schedule something specifically with her" because I can't just tell her the door is open and to come over whenever. I still don't understand her reasoning on this point except I think it was a combination of not taking responsibility/gaslighting that she used to try to get around it. I should point out I have 50/50 custody with my ex-wife, and essentially I think my ex-GF just saw this as an opportunity to be quasi-single when I had my daughter and go out and drink with her friends or do her own thing.

2. Had no "off" switch for work or drama in her relationships/very bad boundaries with people

I told her repeatedly that she needed to just chill out throughout our relationship. It's like she had no ability to ever completely relax. She was either going at 100 mph or she would just be passed out on the couch (with me sitting there wondering why we were even together in the same place). She also let people get her to do things that they had no business asking for, but in turn she would request equally odd/inappropriate things of people as well. Generally, this would be men she would request this from and they would essentially always agree because I am sure on some level they hoped to get in bed with her eventually (orbiters). She also had a twin sister who she would become verbally abusive and condescending towards for essentially no reason when she would speak to her. The entire thing got exhausting -- I would get home and want to relax after work and she would bombard me with bullsh1t for another 2-3 hours.

3. Had an inappropriate relationship with an older male "friend"

Let me be clear that I don't think physical cheating ever occurred. But around a year and a half ago she started to have this guy "help" her network around the city and meet people. It was clear the guy mostly just wanted to get in her pants. However, despite me telling her this outright that that is what he wanted she told me he was "happily married" and it was insulting that I would ever suggest something inappropriate would occur. Again, more gaslighting. This is where I should have been much more forceful about her ending it. Within the last couple of months of the relationship, I checked her phone a couple of different times and looked at their conversations. He was sending her kissing emojis with the message "I mean that completely platonically of course" and was telling her he would "be up late if she wanted to text later." Me seeing this was essentially what put me over the edge and made me finally decide to just end it. However, I should have nipped it in the bud.

To go along with "2" above, she had this type of relationship with a number of her orbiters. She basked in the attention it got her.

4. She was ALWAYS right in an argument and would always want to lecture (almost could not stop talking -- like literally)

When we argued, she would go at a mile a minute and would launch into lecturing form about why I was wrong (which was literally about every time I tried to discuss an issue with her). It was 100% gaslighting and talking in circles. It made making progress with her on any issue almost impossible.

There were other problems of course -- but those were the major boundaries that were consistently being crossed. I can say I definitely mismanaged #3 pretty badly because I did not want to appear insecure. In reality I should have set a strong boundary to cut it off with this guy or that I would simply walk. I also should have used S & D much more. At the end I was mostly arguing with her and she would become almost manic when she would argue with me.

 

[Barrister]

Went through a relationship like this. I saw you are posting in the NC thread too so kudos to you for doing your best. One thing I learned was with a chick like this, if you establish a strong boundary she'll soften up quickly and make "amends" to keep you around. You've REALLY got to be willing to walk away, sometimes that's easier said than done when she seems sincere. Then the whole cycle repeats itself, but it gets worse every time. The fog of relationship war.

For my ex it was always someone else's fault. Not just for major problems, but she went out of her way to complain to waiters, store clerks, etc., etc. Always seeking restitution instead of just saving the time and energy to forget it. Everything was an injustice. And if she could get you tangled up in her little world of anger, all the better. She'd do it with me, her mom, her coworkers, whatever. I'd start anticipating fights mentally before they happen. Now that's a mindfukk.

However for me it was easy to move on because I'd been breaking up with her for years, lol. I was never so happy to block someone. But that was me. Hang in there. If it's any consolation, mine reached out to me on LinkedIn and I totally ignored her miserable a$$, knowing she probably took it out on whatever sorry sap she was dating by then.

Yes - as I just posted above, my ex was always right as well. She was also always an expert on literally everything. To be fair, she is intelligent. But the constant lecturing about why everyone else didn't know what they were doing and she knew better got old over the course of 2.5 years. Sh1t got so draining to listen to.

I appreciate your words on hanging in there.