Why does the manosphere care so much about abortion

[EyeBRollin]

It's not a duck.

Dodge. Why do you think society should mandate out of wedlock births?

 

[zekko]

Dodge. Why do you think society should mandate out of wedlock births?

It's not a dodge, you've asked that repeatedly. I said before, people should take responsibility. But they don't, so even wedlock isn't practical in our selfish society. Why do you think killing unborn children is such a great response? There's no ideal outcome in this, because of people's selfish behaviors. You're concerned about Covid killing the elderly and those in poor health, why no concern for the defenseless unborn?

A fetus is alive, and it is human, so I would say that is human life. Just because it is dependent on its mother for survival doesn't make it less so. Our society is a giant killing machine, on a mass scale.

 

[Georgepithyou]

It makes no sense to me. Men don’t carry children so why the fvck should we care?

So your okay with women murdering babies just because you aren't the ones carrying them? That's extremely self centred. Don't you have any morals?

 

[EyeBRollin]

So your okay with women murdering babies just because you aren't the ones carrying them?

This question has a false premise. Abortion is not murder.

That's extremely self centred. Don't you have any morals?

Don’t you care about babies born out of wedlock?

 

[EyeBRollin]

It's not a dodge, you've asked that repeatedly. I said before, people should take responsibility.

That is not a solution. You want abortion banned. What is your solution to the out of wedlock children that will be forced into society?

 

[TheProspect]

The fundamental premise of the abortion argument, whether you’re for or against it, pretty much boils down to at which point you believe an accumulation of cells becomes a human being.

Another important element of the abortion argument is whether you believe the right to life supersedes the right to make reproductive decisions affecting one’s body, or vice versa. Your belief on this is largely influenced by the point in which you consider an accumulation of cells a human being.

Thirdly, one must determine any differences in value and worth of life after birth versus potential life upon conception before birth.

Arguments thereafter those 3 points of abortion, for or against it, that revolve around shaping women’s behaviour or mitigating the economic well-being of the mother, child, and society, are irrelevant and secondary at best, in my opinion. Arguments that involve rape-related pregnancy, or pregnancy that threatens the life of the mother are exceptional circumstances, and cannot be effective as a universal argument for either side.

If one can detach from their argument and give charity & good faith to the other side, they’ll see that there is no easy answer. One thing most of us on both sides would probably agree on is that at least reducing the abortion rate would be a good thing.

At the end of the day, no matter what views we have on abortion, it's interesting to point out that we are able to have those views and those experiences that shaped them by virtue of our mother not aborting us, regardless of any circumstances or “rights” that may have “justified” her in doing so.

 

[EyeBRollin]

The fundamental premise of the abortion argument, whether you’re for or against it, pretty much boils down to at which point you believe an accumulation of cells becomes a human being.

Have to push on this as the premise is a mischaracterization. No one is “for” abortion. The pro-choice argument accepts that people are going to fvck no matter what and there will always be unplanned pregnancies. Banning abortion does not stop abortions from happening nor does it cause people to have safer sex. As for the abortion is murder camp, this has been litigated (and lost) in court in every Western country.

 

[TheProspect]

No one is “for” abortion.

It should be obvious no sane person has an abortion (nor encourages one) just for kicks, nor did I imply that.

Banning abortion does not stop abortions from happening nor does it cause people to have safer sex. As for the abortion is murder camp, this has been litigated (and lost) in court in every Western country.

I think most people in the "pro-life" camp want to legally ban abortion more-so for ethical reasons, not practical ones. They believe an embryo is a human life and has the right to live, and to abort it is taking away the life of a human. Banning anything in general is largely ineffective.

 

[zekko]

What is your solution to the out of wedlock children that will be forced into society?

As I said, my objection is on moral grounds. Is killing all these unborn children more convenient for people, and society. Probably so. Doesn't make it right. Over 33% of children in the US are born out of wedlock now, and I imagine that number is rising. I don't see why dealing with these children should be any different. But I don't expect to ever see abortion made illegal in my lifetime, so it's not really a big concern of mine. I believe in self responsibility. If a person has a child, they should take care of it. Some have limited means, and there will always be poverty, but our society does have safety nets. They're not luxurious, nor should they be, but they're there.

Banning abortion does not stop abortions from happening nor does it cause people to have safer sex.

I heard someone talking about this the other day. That one argument in favor of abortion is that it will happen anyway. He was saying that's a pretty lousy argument. Because everything that is illegal happens anyway. Murder is illegal, but it happens all too often. Does that mean we should legalize it?

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Abortion is not murder. That is a faulty premise. Secondly, how does it benefit society to mandate out of wedlock child birth?

By 5 or 6 months if they are born they'll survive. At two weeks it has all human organs and appendages.

If its not murder then they should have someone punch them in stomach and pass the baby into the toilet.

 

[metalwater]

By 5 or 6 months if they are born they'll survive. At two weeks it has all human organs and appendages.

If its not murder then they should have someone punch them in stomach and pass the baby into the toilet.

some places in the world do exactly that. the massage therapist has special training on how to do the punch in the right place. when it fails the baby is born with terrible facial defects.

 

[metalwater]

That is not a solution. You want abortion banned. What is your solution to the out of wedlock children that will be forced into society?

seriously, one of the ways this was dealt with in history is to ban out of wedlock sex. with very harsh punishment for breaking that law. probably the punishment has to be to the woman... as she is the gate.

 

[EyeBRollin]

seriously, one of the ways this was dealt with in history is to ban out of wedlock sex. with very harsh punishment for breaking that law. probably the punishment has to be to the woman... as she is the gate.

I’m against government having such a role in its citizens bedroom. At least this is a solution answer though.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Why just not get pregnant in the first place? Versus killing babies?

 

[metalwater]

I’m against government having such a role in its citizens bedroom. At least this is a solution answer though.

Not the government, the family clan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan. Just like on other topics the elders look after the younger until they are mature enough to do it themself and also to guide and protect. The result, of course, is younger marriages again. Sex is the initial driving force to create a new family. By removing the requirement for marriage before sex and loyalty to the same we break the foundations of much of the cultures we actually like.

Perhaps I have it wrong, is the main cause of abortion young committed/married couples using it as family planning, or is it single and uncommitted women and those committed that are unfaithful?

I would suggest that abortion directly fuels the independence of women. Now do independent women really support the family model that we like? I suggest no.. Feminism and independence support women spinning plates. Abortion supports that end.

Not just a rant against women.. men are equally to blame as they have something to do with every pregnancy.

 

[zekko]

As for the abortion is murder camp, this has been litigated (and lost) in court in every Western country.

That's true, but that's from a legal standpoint. Courts in the West all push the feminist agenda, and abortion is a big part of that. A good deal of this forum has been about how courts favor women.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

So if we go around hitting pregnant women in the belly with a baseball bat and her baby dies we didn't commit a murder?

 

[metalwater]

Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes an embryo or fetus in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."[1]

 

[EyeBRollin]

So if we go around hitting pregnant women in the belly with a baseball bat and her baby dies we didn't commit a murder?

No. For one it’s not a baby. But you’ll be brought up on enough other charges.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Why just not get pregnant in the first place? Versus killing babies?

Yup. This is the point all of you are missing. The manosphere is typically against abortion because it further destroys the already nonexistent self-agency of women. They simply become more irresponsible because of it, and men are the fall guys as usual. If we don’t pay for it in the direct via child support payments for 18 years, then we’ll deal with it indirectly when we’re trying to prevent the collapse of civilization due to the decline in population growth (and thus, the population as a whole) thanks to women’s standards being blown out of proportion since they confuse being desired as a woman/wife with being fu¢kable.

Once society reaches that point, there’s no going back. It’s called the Low Fertility Trap Hypothesis, and is further supported by the Mouse Universe experiments. RIP humanity.