Don’t know what to do

[flowtheory]

Perhaps that is how you see yourself. To me, that is not at all conveyed in what you share here.

What specifically have you said or done that would convey, you are not a pushover but a man who stands his ground, to her?

I’ve told her I won’t tolerate her going on one on ones, also told her I will walk in a few circumstances, told her if she’s going to say certain things that it’s unnaveptabke and I won’t be berated. Many times.

Don’t forget, these are partial stories of what I share here. And its sully only the questionable actions she does that are put forth. So while it’s easy to say NEXT, it’s also assuming all that she does is disrespect me. But that’s not the full extent.

 

[flowtheory]

I appreciate that you want to see things from her perspective and be understanding. I do. Being understanding does not mean you have to sacrifice yourself in the process. The concern I have is that you are sacrificing your own perspective and self-respect, by being excessively flexible/understanding, when her words/actions are disrespectful of you.

I’m not sacrificing my own self respect. I did that once in the past. Never again. I am being a good self with her and being understanding but if things arise which are not ideal, I do speak my mind about them, and that’s rooted in self respect.

I wouldn’t let her do anything that makes me dislike her or come at the cost of my own self. For real.

 

[guru1000]

I already dealt with Flow in this thread, but for others reading: I've never had a girl attempt this on me, even when I was young and naive. That's because it was always intuitive that transgressions (much less than than Flow's) were grounds to dismiss and I had no issue dismissing for any type of conscious disrespect. So I would dismiss and they would chase to redress. But most often, they wouldn't try as the unspoken boundaries of my character (and thus what I would tolerate) were superimposed in my demeanor.

My style today is not very different, just more nuanced in consideration of the full context.

I believe that is what distinguishes the natural, that is, a superior level of respect and value for oneself demonstrated through behavioral nuances, which speaks the unspoken. Boundaries delineated in your persona.

Honor thyself > Honoring others, is the cardinal distinction which would solve 90% of issues on this forum.

 

[flowtheory]

I am not suggesting you have to NEXT to her. Most men would. I get that is not you. A woman that is treating you as she does, with disrespect, should not be granted exclusivity with you. Yes, even if she is sexing you frequently and paying for dinners. She deserves to be downgraded at least. She should have to re-earn exclusive status. Respect of you, in her actions and words, should be absolute bare minimum, for her to earn exclusive status with you.

Since the conversation about her going on these one on ones, things have felt and become much better. I don’t believe she has a lack of respect for me. As she has told me how much I mean to her and that she does respect me. I believe she is really insecure with her and I from her own issues and baggage and is trying to navigate that as best as she can. And all the while she has been honest about things. Can fault really be pointed if she’s being transparent about not fully knowing?

With everything good she has shown me through actions and words, a couple insecure moments shouldn’t burn that all things to the ground.

But like I said, I SEE all the flags. I HEAR everything here people are saying and deeply appreciate it and will continue to better myself.
However I will give it another month and see what happens and if it progresses to a better place, and if it does not, then I will pull the plug. My self respect is still intact and she does know where I stand in many aspects. And I think that’s fair to sometimes give people the benefit of the doubt rather than jump to conclusions based out of fear and in hopes that there’s some woman out there who has no hangups or issues.

 

[sazc]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I’ve gained some insight from them.

I told her how it made me feel and she was quite receptive. I don’t feel she is on her way out at all.

She often talks about the future together and even invited me to Croatia for August. And always wants to spend weekends together. We have sex 4-5 times each weekend. She’s affectionate, often splits bills or picks up the tabs. Thoughtful. There’s many many good signs. Often asks for plans and wants my weekends. Last night she suggested I meet her friends.
Told me she really cares about me and it scares the heck out of her because she’s never had a truly supportive relationship.

In terms of the coffee dates.. one guy is another lawyer who she’s known for four years who she said she probably won’t see again. and the other was a wreck who just broke up with his gf and they talked about that the whole time. She has been very transparent about it all and even her doubts about her and I.

Yes there have been a few flags. But I don’t know if she’s been used to dating someone who is an actually good person before and she is scared. Her words.

During our talk about her weird dates she even said “during the dates I guess I realized that it’s good to know I’ll be okay and still wanted if it didn’t work out between us”. So yes, maybe it was a date and she was shopping, but she’s doing it because she’s scared.

She stated she would never ever cheat on me and I believe her. But given all her actions put together I can tell she feels heavily for me but is scared. And that part where she’s acting from scarcity or fear is still living. However it is only 2 months in..

I will go for another month and see what new circumstances present themselves.

I have met her at a weird time in her life given she was still in to her ex when we first met, however that quickly subsided. And now all at once she has been getting attention, and given that I’m quite full on it probably scares her a bit, so she’s simply trying to make a decision of what’s best for her.

At the end, if she was on her way out, we wouldn’t be having so much sex, or she wouldn’t be picking up full $100 dinners/drinks, planning dates, suggesting I meet her friends, inviting me to her hometown, or wishing to sleep over two nights in a row.

Open to having all this challenged.

you know what @flowtheory IMO, and this is only my opinion, first thing I would do is ask my man if he's cool with me meeting my ex'es. If my main said "sure" I would make it very clear while we were having coffee that, out of respect for my man, this was the one and only time we would be connecting.

If she's so into you, she should be focused on you and your life, problems, etc. Not being an emotional tampon for someone else. Being together is about being there for your significant other - not being there for rando ex that you havent spoken with in forever and a day.

She's admitted that she isnt making the healthiest of choices because she is scared BUT is she restraining herself from making future bad choices?

Im just sayin

Keep vigilant

 

[sazc]

Since the conversation about her going on these one on ones, things have felt and become much better. I don’t believe she has a lack of respect for me. As she has told me how much I mean to her and that she does respect me. I believe she is really insecure with her and I from her own issues and baggage and is trying to navigate that as best as she can. And all the while she has been honest about things. Can fault really be pointed if she’s being transparent about not fully knowing?

With everything good she has shown me through actions and words, a couple insecure moments shouldn’t burn that all things to the ground.

But like I said, I SEE all the flags. I HEAR everything here people are saying and deeply appreciate it and will continue to better myself.
However I will give it another month and see what happens and if it progresses to a better place, and if it does not, then I will pull the plug. My self respect is still intact and she does know where I stand in many aspects. And I think that’s fair to sometimes give people the benefit of the doubt rather than jump to conclusions based out of fear and in hopes that there’s some woman out there who has no hangups or issues.

so you guys are now on the upswing of the sine wave.

She complains about your dik, you fall into the trough of the sine wave, you talk about it and you are back to the crest. now she is "afraid and making dates, back to the trough...then you talk and you are back to the crest.

sinusoidal

drama

nope

 

[flowtheory]

you know what @flowtheory IMO, and this is only my opinion, first thing I would do is ask my man if he's cool with me meeting my ex'es. If my main said "sure" I would make it very clear while we were having coffee that, out of respect for my man, this was the one and only time we would be connecting.

If she's so into you, she should be focused on you and your life, problems, etc. Not being an emotional tampon for someone else. Being together is about being there for your significant other - not being there for rando ex that you havent spoken with in forever and a day.

She's admitted that she isnt making the healthiest of choices because she is scared BUT is she restraining herself from making future bad choices?

Im just sayin

Keep vigilant

He isn’t an ex. On the second time out she said she wasn’t interested in him. They contired to be friends for a bit. Phone calls, one other hangout. Then he dissappeared. He’s now come back and he’s distraught about his ex breaking up with him. And trying to get her back. She’s made it abundantly clear that she isn’t interested in dating or pursuing anyone but me.

I don’t know if she’s restraining. I don’t know if she believes she can or deserves a healthy happy relationship.

I know her last relationship was very up and down. And she even said last night she hasn’t ever had a supportive intimate relationship and she believes for the first time that’s possible with us.

She is a bit damaged carrying her baggage. But I don’t believe she’s so far gone. She is understanding and does care.

And me hanging out with my ex (whom I’ve been solid friends with for 2 years) makes her on edge. And she’s also not used to her boyfriends getting so much attention from women. She’s trying to navigate this her best too. And maybe she’s going about it in an insecure fashion or to show me she has value too. Just going abou things in a not so tactful way.

 

[flowtheory]

You talk about how honest and forthcoming she is. Look at what she said to you, in her honesty. She SPECIFICALLY added in, "at present." That is a big distinction. She simply could have said, I don't want to date anyone else (but you). She didn't say that!! She communicated that she doesn't want to date anyone, other that you, "right now." Why did she feel the need to add that in? It is a big distinction. It's not something a woman says to a man she is excited to be exclusive with. It's not something a woman says to a man she envisions a future with. She is telling you that she very well may want to date others at some point, and enough so that she wants you to be aware of that right now. Don't play unaware. Pay attention. She is being honest. She is laying it all out. I think you continue to accommodate her, in order to squeeze "her potential," through your rose-colored glasses, hoping for a solid LTR with her someday.

She’s said it in the past in person too. She’s said that because she doesn’t want to assume we will always be together.

She’s also talked about us being together until we’re old at Times too. So I believe she goes back and forth in her head. But like she’s told me too.. she’s not 100 percent sold. And I don’t blame her for that. The difference is she’s just putting that honesty out there, rather than withholding it like most would with their doubts.

 

[sazc]

@flowtheory I ask, again, is this really the way you think you deserve to be treated in a relationship?

Man, the time I struggled with how to tell a dude I was in an LTR that his condoms were too big.....the time I struggled for months trying to craft my communication when my man struggled with being a 2 pump chump.

My point is, I kept silent because I wanted to make sure what I said was going to not injure the relationship.

She's got verbal diarrhea and doesnt care if what she says hurts, and you're making excuses for her.... wow

 

[flowtheory]

@flowtheory If there were ten or even twenty women outside your door right now, who wanted to seriously date you, would you still be hanging on to this one?

Yes, probably. I already have more options around each corner. There’s a lot of redeeming qualities and actions she does.

 

[flowtheory]

@flowtheory I ask, again, is this really the way you think you deserve to be treated in a relationship?

Man, the time I struggled with how to tell a dude I was in an LTR that his condoms were too big.....the time I struggled for months trying to craft my communication when my man struggled with being a 2 pump chump.

My point is, I kept silent because I wanted to make sure what I said was going to not injure the relationship.

She's got verbal diarrhea and doesnt care if what she says hurts, and you're making excuses for her.... wow

Her stance is that she would rather tell me the pure honest truth no matter what, so we can get past it and she can be real. And honestly, it makes me trust her more, even if it is sharp. Because it’s truthful. So if she gives me a compliment, I know it’s for real rather than just boosting my ego. I know I can always believe her.

We made a pact at the start to never lie to one another. No one has lied yet. Difficult? Yes. Real? Very.
How many women can be so purely honest?

So do I think I derserve to be treated this way? Yes I think I deserve the truth, no matter what. And if it maybe takes a bit of sh!tyy weather to get the purest form of someone then I would be willing to gamble that and stake it.

 

[flowtheory]

A person could set ALL the boundaries and have ALL the woman’s respect, date for two years and STILL lose the woman in the end due to cheating or a form of betrayal. I really don’t know if there’s a 100 percent way in relationships to stay safely guarded.

I know she would NEVER cheat and we have similar values, so that counts for something.

 

[sazc]

Her stance is that she would rather tell me the pure honest truth no matter what, so we can get past it and she can be real. And honestly, it makes me trust her more, even if it is sharp. Because it’s truthful. So if she gives me a compliment, I know it’s for real rather than just boosting my ego. I know I can always believe her.

We made a pact at the start to never lie to one another. No one has lied yet. Difficult? Yes. Real? Very.
How many women can be so purely honest?

So do I think I derserve to be treated this way? Yes I think I deserve the truth, no matter what. And if it maybe takes a bit of sh!tyy weather to get the purest form of someone then I would be willing to gamble that and stake it.

Honest communication involves empathy for the target. That is lacking here.

Empathy involves ASKING the other person how they feel about it and taking that into consideration when deciding what to do. All she is attempting to do is not hide her behavior (for the most part). What she lacks is the ability to care about your feelings.

 

[lamath]

Honor thyself > Honoring others.

This is what you should follow Flow,

A good mindset to have imo is If someone you are dating is not treating you well your attraction level should diminished.Does not matter if intentional or unintentional.
Someone who could apply this without any bias would never stay in a bad relationship.

 

[SoSuave666]

This is a fantastically entertaining thread. Can't wait to see how it ends! Oh wait...

I've seen this movie a million times. Don't look good for ya, OP.

 

[flowtheory]

If a woman had no respect for me and viewed me as some little puppy, there wouldn’t be so much investment coming from her as there is right now. Sex, dates, plans, etc. So that argument doesn’t totally hold up.

I think she went out with these two guys to ensure she still has options if it falls apart between her and I. It’s insecurity. That’s disrespectful, yes, in a part, I think she’s not intentionally doing it, but it’s also a facade of security for her to ease in to something which requires great investment. It’s coming from fear, rather than disrespect. Because anytime I assert to walk, or go silent, she freaks and panics and drops all the crap.

She perhaps hopes she would never cheat. She may intend to never cheat. What happens moment to moment, or somewhere in the future, can contradict all the best intentions one has ever held. LOTS of people thought they would never ever be one to cheat, until the moment came and they went with it. Don't be telling yourself that you KNOW she NEVER would cheat. You can say she does not intend to or expect to. That is as honest as it gets, IMHO.

I know I would NEVER EVER cheat. I know this. I would say she would be the same, given what her father did to her mother and the effect it had and still has on her.

This is a fantastically entertaining thread. Can't wait to see how it ends! Oh wait...

I've seen this movie a million times. Don't look good for ya, OP.

Maybe.. no situation is ever the same. I don’t know what will happen. I have hope though.

 

[Ranger]

I feel like I’m being put in a weird spot with the woman I’m still seeing. After a young woman from my class wanted to hangout - Chloe - we agreed that one on ones with new people isn’t the best and doesn’t have a place in a relationship. So we won’t do that anymore.

-fast forward 1 month-


Lately, she’s had some guys from her past reach out asking her to grab a coffee or lunch. She met with one last Friday for a lunch (David).
And now another guy (George) reached out to her early this week and they chatted. He asked her to get together for a coffee for Wednesday but they rescheduled for saturday morning (today)
Throughout the conversation there were lots of these faces and exclamation marks on both sides. She brought up that she was doing this and showed me the text conversation; so she was forthcoming about it. She went out with George twice before last summer but was not interested in him and they never kissed.

She has told me about both incidents prior to the meetings; she met both over online dating. Didn’t kiss or do anything with either of them but assumes they both liked or maybe still like her in some sense.
And with David she said she was aware of some attraction feelings on both her and his side last Friday at lunch. But says just friends but doesn’t know if they will meet up anytime soon again..

It’s odd to me, because it feels like they are legit dates, because why else would a guy reach out to a woman? And she’s just choosing to entertain them but pretend to be oblivious that it is one. And her telling me about them beforehand alleviates the guilt of her still maybe exploring options, even if they are older to see how she feels with other guys one on one. Because in this recent messsge she never even mentioned that she was seeing someone. So I bet George is under the impression it is a date.
Because why go spend time one on one with guys who she legit hasn’t seen since end of last summer or early October? They aren’t real friends, and she must clearly know this

Does this not seem sketch? She assured me she doesn’t want anything romantically with anyone else but me in a text last night. But also has stated she has her ‘reservations’ about her and I in previous talks, which is fine because we’ve only been exclusive for 2 months. But I just don’t get why take the route of going one on ones with guys from her past. When I know damn well she would be irate if the situation were reversed.

I’m trying to not be controlling, understanding and all of that which is needed in relationships, but this feels nauseating and disrespectful. Because if she’s doing it because she’s unsure of me and her, and one of those guys is on point in one of these get togethers it simply puts more doubt in her mind. It’s like a form of sabotage

She sent me this message last night without any promoting. So clearly I believe she knows that what she’s doing is a game..
“I just want to say, because maybe I would want to be reassured also, that I’m not going on a date tomorrow. I am seeing a sweet friend, whom I care about as a friend. I am not keeping options open, nor do I want to date anyone else at present. I have robust swatting away capabilities. I hope that works for you.”

Thoughts?

So you really want to believe her right? What happened to “no one on ones”?

She’s getting her attention and strokes. Just realize that this rule only applies to you. Tell her you are going to see Chloe. After all...it’s just coffee.

Do you not see the standard you are held to isn’t the same for her? This will not change. The precedence has been set.

It doesn’t matter if she is on the up and up. This isn’t about her. You are obviously not ok with this. So she is allowed to have fall back guys if something goes off the rails?
What about your fall back?

This is the imperative in action. “He’s only a friend!”, “Why are so insecure?”, “I’m not allowed to have friends?”, “He’s just a friend.”, “What’s wrong with guys? They are so jealous.”

Believe me. These are socially accepted AND you can be admonished for standing in the way of her sexual antics and availability to other men, one on one.

Invert it...why have the rule of no “one on ones”?
What would happen if you had them too?
Trust me. She knows what would happen. LMAO

EVERY man I personally know has run into this.
You already know you can’t bring it up without getting egg on your face. Lol
You will be made the evil wrong guy. The weak knees little insecure guy. That’s why you don’t bring it up. Shamed into pvssyhood you are.

 

[flowtheory]

So you really want to believe her right? What happened to “no one on ones”?

She’s getting her attention and strokes. Just realize that this rule only applies to you. Tell her you are going to see Chloe. After all...it’s just coffee.

Do you not see the standard you are held to isn’t the same for her? This will not change. The precedence has been set.

It doesn’t matter if she is on the up and up. This isn’t about her. You are obviously not ok with this. So she is allowed to have fall back guys if something goes off the rails?
What about your fall back?

This is the imperative in action. “He’s only a friend!”, “Why are so insecure?”, “I’m not allowed to have friends?”, “He’s just a friend.”, “What’s wrong with guys? They are so jealous.”

Believe me. These are socially accepted AND you can be admonished for standing in the way of her sexual antics and availability to other men, one on one.

Invert it...why have the rule of no “one on ones”?
What would happen if you had them too?
Trust me. She knows what would happen. LMAO

EVERY man I personally know has run into this.
You already know you can’t bring it up without getting egg on your face. Lol
You will be made the evil wrong guy. The weak knees little insecure guy. That’s why you don’t bring it up. Shamed into pvssyhood you are.

No one on ones with new people. I guess.

Yes she’s hypocritical. You’re completely right with all of this. It’s like an unavoidable double standard.

 

[flowtheory]

You are the one that allows it to be that.

Well I did tell her if she’s going to do one on ones with people from her past that are men, I’m going to be open to it also.

 

[Ranger]

No one on ones with new people. I guess.

Yes she’s hypocritical. You’re completely right with all of this. It’s like an unavoidable double standard.

So it’s only new people? LMAO
So old fuks are ok. Just not new potential fuks.

Trust me when I tell you this. There isn’t a man with any time of relationship experience that hasn’t experienced this. This is a standard operating default. It’s automatic.

When men question it the whole world shames the fuk out of him. She tells all her girlfriends, exes, EVERYONE.

It’s feels like being driven from the tribe to die in the wilderness for your audacity to even bring it up.

Shame on you...you non-conforming Male. Here, let me rub that pvssy in your face because you ain’t getting any more, you mongrel. LMAO

NOT laughing at you brother. Just the total absurdity of any of it. There are dozens if not uncountable little things like this that men don’t even realize are being used against them due to the imperative.

Turn yourself into a better man and you won’t have to worry about these things anymore. She wouldn’t fukking dare try it.