Just be honest

[Glassguy]

It seems as though a lot of guys on here have a major problem which is being honest.

One thing is for certain- you must be honest with yourself and by doing that, having a strong frame will more than likely take care of itself.

Frame- maintaining control of yourself and your wants and needs and not putting other people's reckless needs and behaviors above your own.

You cannot have a strong frame without being honest with yourself first and to these chicks you are talking to secondly.

A few examples:

Chick asks me what I am looking for: I tell her that I am open to a relationship down the road with the right person, but I am not interested in a relationship with the wrong person and am in no rush for anything serious. That is me being honest. She can choose if she wants to keep seeing me or not, that is her choice.

Chick seems to be very non sexual on the first date or two/tries to just be "friends": I tell her that I dont see anything between us because I dont think she is sexual enough for me. That is me being honest. Again, it is her choice if she wants to step up her game and prove otherwise. If she doesnt, no problem I will walk.

Chick asks me if I am seeing other women: I tell her that I am enjoying the benefits of the single life and I am actively seeing/talking to other women and exploring my options. That is honestly. Her choice as to continue seeing me or not.

Chick gets flirty with another person on a date with me/tries to correct something I say in front of others/any other form of mild disrespect: I tell her that her actions are not warranted and appreciated and if she does it again I will bounce. That is being honest and if she does it again, I will just shift my attention she was getting from me to other women. Honesty. If she does it again or something majorly disrespectful, I walk. Thats being honest with myself and having control = strong frame.

Just a quick example of this that happened to me recently- A chick went ghost the day of our date. I didnt reach out. Just yesterday she reached out on fb messenger with a "hey". I simply replied with "Hey whats up". So she goes on to tell me how such and such came up, blah blah blah. I tell her "No problem. If you want to grab some wine and come over and get naked Saturday night, let me know". She immediately got mad, saying "I dont just do that with someone that isnt going to take me out on a date".

My response- "Yeah our date was last week on Wednesday. You missed it, so here we are. You can take my offer or leave it, totally up to you. I will be good either way".

Honesty= strong frame=being direct=you get what you want/treated as you expect or you walk. Very simple.

Honesty and a strong frame does not mean that I treat women poorly and it doesnt mean that I can't be nice. It means that when enough is enough, its enough. I am being honest with myself by realizing its not working out with this chick, based on her behavior not mine, and I walk away.

Too many of you guys arent honest with women on certain things because you are SCARED that you will lose that woman. All you are doing is prolonging the inevitable. You will not have any sort of strong frame because you are already compromising what you want and how you will be treated by a woman.

Scarcity mindset comes from being scared to lose someone and puts you in a weak frame of allowing poor behavior to allow someone to continue coming around.

IDGAF Mentality means that I am looking out for me first and that I will not lower my standards on how I expect to be treated by a woman (or anyone for that matter). It means if a chick walks because she is not going to be respectful/submit, thats ok, I am gone like dust in the wind unless she comes crawling back. I have other options.

You dudes need to start being direct and honest with these woman that are attracted to you (low attraction is a totally different subject, although a quick one- dont waste your time on them that have low interest).

Be honest with yourselves, be honest in what you want with these chicks and how you expect to be treated (as in silence and distance to walking away) and stop giving so many shytes if a woman doesnt comply. It takes work to have a real IDGAF attitude but it is very rewarding. Step your game up and go spin plates.

Be honest- it makes things very simple and easy and you will find yourself not wasting time.

 

[guru1000]

Extremely unilateral thought process which in specific cases will not serve you or the other party.

Let’s look at instances where serving the truth neither serves you or the person:

1. Changing the truth in order to practice humility or modesty. For example, one may claim ignorance of a certain strength even if one does have it;
2. Changing the truth in order to protect someone else from harm or inconvenience. For example, if a host was very gracious, and one is asked about this, one should not tell all about his magnanimity as this may cause too many guests to flock to him
3. On a similar vein, if a person has an incurable illness, and informing him of this will be detrimental to his health, it may be proper to withhold this information from him.
4. A lie said in order to protect someone from embarrassment. An example of this is that one may say that a bride is beautiful and gracious, even if she isn't particularly beautiful or gracious.
5. Using exaggerated expressions if it is clear that it's an exaggeration. For example: "You look white like as a sheet."
6. circumstances under which one is allowed to be deceptive in order to recoup losses that are owed to him.
7. If someone does something for himself, but another understands that it was done to honor him, one does not have to correct this misunderstanding.

Myriad examples of how the above can and will apply in your dealings with women. Men need not operate on absolute abstracts, but rather on individual contexts which serve them and the other party best. When honesty doesn’t serve you, it’s a philosophical trap disguised as nobility.

As for your examples: employing silencing and walking away aka dismissing them would have been much more powerful as a psychological influence than any overt words you could have possibly delivered. You can’t negotiate desire for her to act differently if it operates outside of her desire and needs. Instead you prompt her desire by retraction as so she believes the desire is prompted
by her own volition.

Sorry Glassguy, but in light of the recent threads in the forum, this response is warranted.

 

[guru1000]

Amante, Honesty can serve you yes. I didn’t state otherwise. I did state honesty in certain situations will serve neither you nor the party. This distinguishment is important to avoid the trap of unilateral behavior of honesty in All contexts which some readers could otherwise interpret and incorporate within their ideals.

 

[SoSuave666]

Extremely unilateral thought process which in specific cases will not serve you or the other party.

Let’s look at instances where serving the truth neither serves you or the person:

1. Changing the truth in order to practice humility or modesty. For example, one may claim ignorance of a certain strength even if one does have it;
2. Changing the truth in order to protect someone else from harm or inconvenience. For example, if a host was very gracious, and one is asked about this, one should not tell all about his magnanimity as this may cause too many guests to flock to him
3. On a similar vein, if a person has an incurable illness, and informing him of this will be detrimental to his health, it may be proper to withhold this information from him.
4. A lie said in order to protect someone from embarrassment. An example of this is that one may say that a bride is beautiful and gracious, even if she isn't particularly beautiful or gracious.
5. Using exaggerated expressions if it is clear that it's an exaggeration. For example: "You look white like as a sheet."
6. circumstances under which one is allowed to be deceptive in order to recoup losses that are owed to him.
7. If someone does something for himself, but another understands that it was done to honor him, one does not have to correct this misunderstanding.

Myriad examples of how the above can and will apply in your dealings with women. Men need not operate on absolute abstracts, but rather on individual contexts which serve them and the other party best. When honesty doesn’t serve you, it’s a philosophical trap disguised as nobility.

As for your examples: employing silencing and walking away aka dismissing them would have been much more powerful as a psychological influence than any overt words you could have possibly delivered. You can’t negotiate desire for her to act differently if it operates outside of her desire and needs. Instead you prompt her desire by retraction as so she believes the desire is prompted
by her own volition.

Sorry Glassguy, but in light of the recent threads in the forum, this response is warranted.

Was going to say there’s far too much overt communication from OP. The premise of being honest and overtly communicating everything works if you’re talking about two men having a conversation.

Removing yourself and silence are far greater ways of communicating with chicks. Guru nailed this one

 

[Edison Johnson]

interesting...

 

[guru1000]

interesting...

NN, really?

 

[xuzaki]

Good post but would modify some parts:

Was going to say there’s far too much overt communication from OP. The premise of being honest and overtly communicating everything works if you’re talking about two men having a conversation.

I agree with @SoSuave666 and add that female-style communication (covert / indirect) works better in many situations. Sometimes overtly communicating the truth is not socially intelligent.

For example, common daygame sh1t test: "Do you do this all the time?"
Overt honest answer = some variation of "yes" -> girls find it crass and walk.
Covert honest answer = "Life's too short to not go for what you want" -> girls understand that means "yes", but usually stick around

 

[Glassguy]

Good responses. There are definitely times to be covert. No doubt.

The first thing I stated was being honest with/to yourself.

"I've asked her out 5 times. Maybe she is just playing hard to get"......not being honest.

"If I just do a bunch of nice stuff for me she will like me"......not being honest.

"She keeps doing this and I dont like it but I dont want to lose her".....not being honest.

A weak mindset full of a scarcity mentality is not a mindset of being honest with yourself.

A strong frame includes being honest with yourself and not allowing fairy tale charades to take over your thinking. It just does. Try having a strong frame without it. You cant.

Are there are certain situations when being more covert is the way to go as Guru and others have pointed out. Without a strong frame you're not getting that far in the first place.

Frame isnt situational. Being overt vs covert is absolutely situational.

But to Guru: I'm not talking about telling a white lie to protect someone or dealing with dying people. I'm talking about being honest with yourself in order to put your own wants and needs first. There is a major difference. Taken my post out of total context and I do agree with you. As far as not being honest in order to try and get something to benefit you from a woman (on most levels) is on fact prolonging the inevitable.

 

[guru1000]

Good post but would modify some parts:


I agree with @SoSuave666 and add that female-style communication (covert / indirect) works better in many situations. Sometimes overtly communicating the truth is not socially intelligent.

For example, common daygame sh1t test: "Do you do this all the time?"
Overt honest answer = some variation of "yes" -> girls find it crass and walk.
Covert honest answer = "Life's too short to not go for what you want" -> girls understand that means "yes", but usually stick around

This is true.

I would add that best responses to their "shlt test" questions are dissembling answers.

For example:

Her: "What are you looking for with me?"

You: "The love of my life, and I'm trying to enjoy the journey till we get there. So let's keep going, we're doing great"

IF you were only seeking a FB/plate, then telling her the truth might send her packing. However, the answer above will likely keep her in rotation. The deeper question is the act of keeping her one prompted by fear (prompt scarcity) or intelligence (keep abundance).

Glassguy, is a great poster with incredible insight. However, the premise which prompted my response was the inference that dishonesty is prompted by fear, rather than by social intelligence. Same applies to your default response or my own. The response may not be forthcoming, but it's effective. The greater detail here that will spin most men's heads is she is not looking for the direct answer to her question; she is simply (unconsciously) testing your social fitness in many instances.

 

[Glassguy]

Dishonesty within yourself prompted to try and attract a woman is prompted by fear.

Please tell me why you should try to be someone that you are not in order to impress one woman.

That is not evidence of a strong frame.

 

[HankHill]

As far as not being honest in order to try and get something to benefit you from a woman (on most levels) is on fact prolonging the inevitable.

Exactly! That's why I keep saying it if your goal is just to get in her pants yes lie and that'll get you what you want but that's like getting an A+ by cheating, it wasn't you, you lacked something why you cheated. Is it a victory? in the world's eyes sure, but deep down? that depends on your perspective...

I have a lot of respect for a lot of you guys posting here but I don't think I can be convinced on this one issue. White harmless lies excepted I guess if the intention is good.

 

[guru1000]

Dishonesty within yourself prompted to try and attract a woman is prompted by fear.

This is where we disagree.

Employing dissembling responses is not dishonesty within yourself but rather very honest with yourself as you are not contradicting your own desire under the guise of, "I'm abundant so I don't want her anyway." In fact, employing honesty under the guise of "I'm abundant so I don't care" is being dishonest with yourself.

You do care (to a certain degree and for a certain purpose) and that's OK. That is why you and she are there.

Please tell me why you should try to be someone that you are not in order to impress one woman.

You shouldn't. So the deeper message is who are "YOU" and are "YOU" fluid or operate only within rigid value systems?

"Impressing" is not the motive in attainment/retainment.

That is not evidence of a strong frame.

Strong frame deals with intent and motivation, not action. I can buy a girl two dozen flowers and yet still have a strong frame. The motive behind the flowers (pander or reward) is the key component of frame.

 

[flowtheory]

The definition of frame is getting quite complicated here..

 

[Glassguy]

Strong frame deals with intent and motivation, not action.

This is where we strongly disagree.

It's all about action. Intent and motivation are nothing without action.

 

[Billtx49]

This is where we strongly disagree.

It's all about action. Intent and motivation are nothing without action.

Properly framed intent and motivation = a mans correct actions.

 

[guru1000]

This is where we strongly disagree.

It's all about action. Intent and motivation are nothing without action.

See Post 4.

The action (of lying) is the same. The intent and motivations are different.

Frame deals with the motivation you are operating from. The act, for example, of buying flowers for a girl could be an act of pandering or an act of reward (for being a soldier). Same act, different motivations.

The act of buying flowers itself does not dictate frame (as the intent could be rewarding for good behavior). However, the intent to pander does dictate frame. One motivation keeps frame, the other motivation destroys frame.

Social intelligence allows us to make these distinctions of the same acts under different contexts.

 

[Bible_Belt]

NN, really?

That's a bot. This place is crawling with them now.

 

[Trump]

Too many of you guys arent honest with women on certain things because you are SCARED that you will lose that woman. All you are doing is prolonging the inevitable. You will not have any sort of strong frame because you are already compromising what you want and how you will be treated by a woman.

IDGAF Mentality means that I am looking out for me first and that I will not lower my standards on how I expect to be treated by a woman (or anyone for that matter). It means if a chick walks because she is not going to be respectful/submit, thats ok, I am gone like dust in the wind unless she comes crawling back. I have other options.

Honesty can be valuable in certain situations.

But I think you are approaching it the wrong way. I think you have to figure out what your goal is, what you want to accomplish with her, and then go from there. The point isn’t to say “I’m the man.” The point is to get what you want from her while giving as little as possible.

IDGAF is too direct and a smokescreen for men to protect themselves when things don’t go there way. Of course all men care about sleeping with hot girls. But smart men don’t let it affect them if the girl is not attracted, they just shrug and move on to the next girl.