Feeling like giving up with women

[sangheilios]

Being too "clean" doesnt get us rewarded. Some dirt must exist. Maybe the dirt is women.

Whenever I meet women they often seem to drill into me with questions that stem from insecurity and they almost look for excuses to reject me. It's odd, the more I've worked on self improvement and the higher quality I've become the more difficult time I have.

I'm college educated and read a lot, so I can have intellectual conversations about a huge range of topics. I'm really fit and have a great physique from lifting and swimming. I take care of myself and have pride in my appearance. I've been to almost every state in the country and traveled extensively throughout Europe. I have a great group of guy friends, have hobbies and interests, etc. Money is not an issue at all for me, mostly due to luck being born into a wealthier family, despite the fact that I'm not even motivated by it.

The best part is I'd love to find a great woman to settle down with and not at all about being a **** boy. The reality is that I'd make good bf/husband material but the culture in our society has shifted so much that someone like me is seen as a bad thing lol.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Whenever I meet women they often seem to drill into me with questions that stem from insecurity and they almost look for excuses to reject me. It's odd, the more I've worked on self improvement and the higher quality I've become the more difficult time I have.

I'm college educated and read a lot, so I can have intellectual conversations about a huge range of topics. I'm really fit and have a great physique from lifting and swimming. I take care of myself and have pride in my appearance. I've been to almost every state in the country and traveled extensively throughout Europe. I have a great group of guy friends, have hobbies and interests, etc. Money is not an issue at all for me, mostly due to luck being born into a wealthier family, despite the fact that I'm not even motivated by it.

The best part is I'd love to find a great woman to settle down with and not at all about being a **** boy. The reality is that I'd make good bf/husband material but the culture in our society has shifted so much that someone like me is seen as a bad thing lol.

Is your car ever dirty, your bedroom, your clothes ever not perfectly fashionable? They find things to level you.

 

[3agle 3yes]

@sangheilios

You are aware that you’re on a forum asking for advice on how to have better interactions with women right?

It’s funny when people tell me “I can’t do x because it’s stupid and isn’t me.”

Improving your position in life is performing a series of behaviors that “isn’t you”. An obese person working a treadmill every day “isn’t them” does it mean they shouldn’t do it?

If you did something you didn’t agree with and thought was stupid but worked would you not do it?

If you just want to have standard conversations with women because you're afraid to get out of your comfort zone that's on you, but you'll continue to get the same results as you're getting now.

In the ideal world being direct and having genuine conversations with women would work, but we don't live in that world.

Most men that approach women creep them out, come across weird, are boring or completely embarrass themselves and until you prove otherwise many of them are going to assume you're no different.

 

[3agle 3yes]

It's due to power disparity, not "bad game", that you get told to entertain them and not vice versa. But women who are interested don't need to be entertained, just like you don't. All this blaming your game is imo is camouflaging the fact that these women have power, but no interest - if they did they would've made it easy and helped you, but they didn't. Sometimes I think we forget that women who want you help you and make it easy for you, and won't confuse you, because it happens so rarely for us... but that's what an interested girl is like and it's important to remember that.

I disagree, there is no power disparity...women have no power unless you give it to them. I'm witty and fun because being witty and having fun is attractive, I'm not doing it because I want women to like me. In fact if I approach a woman and she is a complete bore...I won't continue talking to her, I don't care what she looks like and I think women are the same.

Most guys on here are so obsessed with trying to get something from women that they don't realize that you have to judge her too...you can't want her just because she looks pretty.

 

[sangheilios]

Is your car ever dirty, your bedroom, your clothes ever not perfectly fashionable? They find things to level you.

Honestly my house can be pretty dirty with dishes in the sink and laundry, but I always tidy up before someone comes over lol. I know that they are looking for things to level me out of insecurity. That is one of the reasons why I mentioned on this thread that it's important for me to go for women who are like me to avoid this. I've lowered my standards at times and I'd actually have a far worse off time from that, despite the fact that I was actually being genuine and open with them.

I'm essentially looking for this; pretty much looking for what I also bring to the table.

- Attractive
- Exercises regularly and takes care of herself
- College educated or the equivalent of it, well read, can have a conversation etc.
- No drinking beyond a social level or not at all
- No drugs or smoking
- No children
- Actually single
- Has a life and friends of her own
- No behavior or mental health issues

That's probably only like 5% of women lol.

 

[sangheilios]

You are aware that you’re on a forum asking for advice on how to have better interactions with women right?

It’s funny when people tell me “I can’t do x because it’s stupid and isn’t me.”

Improving your position in life is performing a series of behaviors that “isn’t you”. An obese person working a treadmill every day “isn’t them” does it mean they shouldn’t do it?

If you did something you didn’t agree with and thought was stupid but worked would you not do it?

If you just want to have standard conversations with women because you're afraid to get out of your comfort zone that's on you, but you'll continue to get the same results as you're getting now.

In the ideal world being direct and having genuine conversations with women would work, but we don't live in that world.

Most men that approach women creep them out, come across weird, come across boring or completely embarrass themselves and until you prove otherwise many of them are going to assume you're no different.

These women are stopping to have long conversations with me so I'm obviously not weird or boring to them. There is nothing wrong with those approaches, not sure if you remember that one of them asked me out on a date.

 

[3agle 3yes]

These women are stopping to have long conversations with me so I'm obviously not weird or boring to them. There is nothing wrong with those approaches, not sure if you remember that one of them asked me out on a date.

I never said you were boring them, wait what did I say?

Reading your post about the conversations you were having with these women, I would’ve thought you were speaking to friends and not flirting at all.

Don’t ask women where they’re from and what they do for fun when you approach them. This telegraphs your interest and gives them the impression that you’re courting them. Hence the line “I have a boyfriend“.

It's possible that these women just see you as a friend, because you're having standard conversations with them.

Do you know what courting means? Here's a defintion.

Court

18. to seek the affections of; woo.

If you try to "seek the affections of" or "woo" a woman before she has done anything to "earn it" she will take you for granted. Understand?

It doesn't matter if she's asks for your phone number or asks you out, still make her work for it.

I know to many people on here this seems like "over gaming" or "stupid"....but I have no problem with women, so go figure.

 

[sangheilios]

I never said you were boring them, wait what did I say?

It's possible that these women just see you as a friend, because you're having standard conversations with them.

Do you know what courting means? Here's a defintion.

Court

18. to seek the affections of; woo.

If you try to "seek the affections of" or "woo" a woman before she has done anything to "earn it" she will take you for granted. Understand?

It doesn't matter if she's asks for your phone number or asks you out, still make her work for it.

I know to many people on here this seems like "over gaming" or "stupid"....but I have no problem with women, so go figure.

You had mentioned that most men who approach women are perceived as being creepy/weird or boring, which I do agree with based on what I have seen. I then replied by saying that I wouldn't be perceived as that since these women were stopping to talk to a random guy for literally no reason when he initiated with them.

I doubt they'd see me as a friend considering that some of them I had interacted with I'd never ever again see at all. As for the conversations themselves, I was giving a very brief and abbreviation of what I had been talking to them about.

For example;

The girl at the gym I had met earlier in the summer I approached when she was in between one of her sets. I went up to her and she took her headphones off and asked her what her name was. I then asked her where she was from because she had started coming to the gym recently. From there I started with gym related topics, since it was relevant to the setting, and from there changed over to other things to get to know her. She starts asking me questions in return so this wasn't like a one sided conversation where I'm getting yes or no responses. I actually tried to end the conversation by going back to my workout and she started re initiating more questions to prevent me from leaving. I kept talking to her and I was the one to end the conversation.

Anyway, she did later ask me out so it's obvious she was interested to some degree, despite the fact she flaked and disappeared.

People have different personalities, for me to try to come off as this comedian is going to come across as trying too hard and me being fake. I might make a comment here and there but it's not something that I plan for.

 

[sangheilios]

girls care about fun more than anything else. Even if you are a millionaire, ripped, and successful, they will only see how they can use you not love you. Be in the moment with them

Good point

 

[Mike32ct]

People have different personalities, for me to try to come off as this comedian is going to come across as trying too hard and me being fake. I might make a comment here and there but it's not something that I plan for.

It’s totally ok for a guy do to a serious pickup. It’s actually not strictly necessary to joke or be funny unless you genuinely feel like making a joke and/or that is your personality.

I pulled a Vegas ONS once totally deadpan serious. I saw other guys doing the same (and continue to see that sometimes in the field).

This, “She MUST giggle her way out of her panties” is PUA myth.

Other times (like with the hotel shuttle girl), I used a more friendly/playful/joking conversation style because I was in a playful mood, and she clearly was too.

 

[AttackFormation]

I disagree, there is no power disparity...women have no power unless you give it to them. I'm witty and fun because being witty and having fun is attractive, I'm not doing it because I want women to like me. In fact if I approach a woman and she is a complete bore...I won't continue talking to her, I don't care what she looks like and I think women are the same.

Most guys on here are so obsessed with trying to get something from women that they don't realize that you have to judge her too...you can't want her just because she looks pretty.

Men are more driven to have sex on average, and have lower selectivity for who they'll have sex with. There are also naturally more men born than women in the human species. You can say what you want about how you might handle it, what your mindset should or shouldn't be like, but the power disparity itself is a fact. Reliably observable gender dynamics aren't a result of 7 billion individuals individually "deciding" on them.

This, “She MUST giggle her way out of her panties” is PUA myth.

Other times (like the hotel shuttle girl), I used a more friendly/playful/joking conversation style because I was in a playful mood, and she clearly was too.

Indeed, being attractive makes them perceive you as more fun. It's the halo effect. When they say they "want someone who can make me laugh", they mean a guy hot enough to make them giggle around him, or that they want orbiters to entertain them when they're bored.

 

[sangheilios]

It’s totally ok for a guy do to a serious pickup. It’s actually not strictly necessary to joke or be funny unless you genuinely feel like making a joke and/or that is your personality.

I pulled a Vegas ONS once totally deadpan serious. I saw other guys doing the same (and continue to see that sometimes in the field).

This, “She MUST giggle her way out of her panties” is PUA myth.

Other times (like with the hotel shuttle girl), I used a more friendly/playful/joking conversation style because I was in a playful mood, and she clearly was too.

We also need to consider that women have different personalities as well and will naturally gravitate a bit more towards a certain type of man over another. Disregarding physical attraction, some women might prefer a louder, life of the party type of guy while another one may be more into the strong silent type. That's why I had mentioned on here that feeling the need to act a certain way with women will come across as either trying too hard or just fake and not genuine.

Also, certain men will do better in certain environments based on the energy and vibe of the place. A more introverted guy probably won't feel as natural in a night club compared to say in a college class. I think a lot of this comes down to figuring out your strengths and learning how to work with them to your advantage.

 

[Murk]

I haven’t read the thread but I’ll tell you this:

Meet and approach in person, build rapport and be bold. You guys need to get out of your heads and start living. Or, give up on women and leave them all for me

Kind regards

 

[3agle 3yes]

Men are more driven to have sex on average, and have lower selectivity for who they'll have sex with. There are also naturally more men born than women in the human species.

Yes men are more driven to have sex, but women have their needs too. A man who maintains self control will do better than a man who cannot, I’m sure you already know this.

I don’t know the statistics but even if there are more men than women this is hardly noticeable and has zero affect on us on an individual level. We don’t live in villages anymore...we have access to more women than any man in human history.

Indeed, being attractive makes them perceive you as more fun. It's the halo effect. When they say they "want someone who can make me laugh", they mean a guy hot enough to make them giggle around him, or that they want orbiters to entertain them when they're bored.

No this isn’t true. Has anyone in this thread actually tried to tease a women or flirted with them? Stop worrying about whether she finds you physically attractive. It’s not as if women only find men “sexy” or “ugly” , it’s not binary. Most men are in the middle.

We also need to consider that women have different personalities as well and will naturally gravitate a bit more towards a certain type of man over another. Disregarding physical attraction, some women might prefer a louder, life of the party type of guy while another one may be more into the strong silent type. That's why I had mentioned on here that feeling the need to act a certain way with women will come across as either trying too hard or just fake and not genuine.

Also, certain men will do better in certain environments based on the energy and vibe of the place. A more introverted guy probably won't feel as natural in a night club compared to say in a college class. I think a lot of this comes down to figuring out your strengths and learning how to work with them to your advantage.

Get out of your head! When you first meet women, you’re not actually meeting them, you’re meeting they’re social persona. The techniques I suggested to you help remove this “mask” that they put on.

A woman’s name, where she lives and where she works means absolutely nothing. You need to get through all the bs and actually communicate with them.

Next time you’re having your “15 minute conversations” with a woman, bring up sex. Tell her about your experience with the last person you had sex with and something you found annoying about them. Then tell them about their experiences. Try it and watch how your conversations go to a different level.

 

[sangheilios]

Get out of your head! When you first meet women, you’re not actually meeting them, you’re meeting they’re social persona. The techniques I suggested to you help remove this “mask” that they put on.

A woman’s name, where she lives and where she works means absolutely nothing. You need to get through all the bs and actually communicate with them.

Next time you’re having your “15 minute conversations” with a woman, bring up sex. Tell her about your experience with the last person you had sex with and something you found annoying about them. Then tell them about their experiences. Try it and watch how your conversations go to a different level.

Huh lol?

I'm not sure where you are from, but why the hell would I ever be talking about sex with a woman I just met lol. You talk about guys being perceived as creepy, how do you think they would respond to a guy they met 5 minutes ago start randomly talking about sex.

I'm not sure if you are trolling, but when you first approach a woman asking her what her name is and getting to know her is the normal way you go about doing this lol.

I honestly don't get your posts, seriously.

 

[sangheilios]

Men are more driven to have sex on average, and have lower selectivity for who they'll have sex with. There are also naturally more men born than women in the human species. You can say what you want about how you might handle it, what your mindset should or shouldn't be like, but the power disparity itself is a fact. Reliably observable gender dynamics aren't a result of 7 billion individuals individually "deciding" on them.



Indeed, being attractive makes them perceive you as more fun. It's the halo effect. When they say they "want someone who can make me laugh", they mean a guy hot enough to make them giggle around him, or that they want orbiters to entertain them when they're bored.

If a woman is attracted to you she will laugh at pretty much anything remotely funny you say, it's just a means to encourage you to keep going with the interaction you are having with her. It's the same basic premise of smiling, batting eye lashes and just acting child like and flirtatious, these are all behaviors to show interest.

 

[Mazer]

Just when you are ready to throw in the towel, three new plates show up. True story. I dated over 100 women and recently met three incredible women with LTR potential.
Work on your game and approach as many women as possible. It’s a numbers game, don’t let anyone tell you different. Even if you suck at life, you will meet someone who you click with, maybe she will even suck at life more than you do.

 

[3agle 3yes]

I'm not sure where you are from, but why the hell would I ever be talking about sex with a woman I just met lol. You talk about guys being perceived as creepy, how do you think they would respond to a guy they met 5 minutes ago start randomly talking about sex.

I will admit this one is tricky, but I didn’t mean bring it up right away, which is why I said next time you’re having your “15 minute conversations”.

This is why so many guys talk about MGTOW and all that trash.

No doubt, op will become bitter angry and before you know it he’ll be on Roosh V complaining about how the west is declining.

You don’t come across as “creepy” by what you say, but by the context, timing and way you say it.

I’ve been on this forum for eight years and I’ve barely reached 500 posts. Almost every thread I’ve started has been about other members on this forum...so thinking I’m a troll is ludicrous.

Sometimes I wonder if guys come here to seek help or if they just come here complain so they can feel better about themselves, I’m guessing it’s mostly the latter.

I’m not going to bother with you anymore, women aren’t going to change so you have to do it.

My last advice is to spend time with people who are good with women, because you clearly don’t get it.

 

[MillionBillionaire]

Bro I was soo burnt out on chicks I literally hid in my man cave for almost a year. My friends at the bar were calling me an "urban legend." I used to be quite popular at the bar before I disappeared.

I just got back in the game not too long ago. I'm going on a date tonight with one of the hotter girls I've been with.

Finally after years and months of working on myself, sticking to my boundries and doing what is right... I finally found a young white chick, skinny with no kids, no drugs and no tatoos.

This was after 9 months of nothing but League of Legends hidden away in my man cave. Literally started to accept being a loser and never saw the light of day.

One day I had enough because the guilt of all my experience and skills with women going to waste was too much to live with.

I had to start back at zero with my social ladder, but after tonight I would be literal king of our group.

Robert Green says in his new book, it is after a period of extreme frustration, right when one is about to give up, something great happens. You get what you were working for.

Take time off bro, I actually enjoyed my time in my man cave. The women will be there.

The best part about my time off was I got to detox from all the PUA garbage I been living and breathing.

This place aint bad, stay away from pua.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Having women initiate with you, asking you out and leading you on just to flake is very frustrating, any guy would agree with that and those feelings are completely valid.

Leave feelers to women and small children.

Feelings?

Lol

As I've mentioned, I'm in my late 20s, 6'4", an attractive white guy that works out a lot/in really good shape, takes care of himself, doesn't drink/smoke/do drugs, is educated, respectable and a good guy all around. I shouldn't have to feel like all I have to choose from is women that aren't on par with me (overweight, not sober, single moms, etc.). 2/3 of adults are overweight or obese, so that right there has wittled away a huge chunk of the dating pool. After that I'd probably only be interested in maybe 10% of all women in the general public, so of course it'll be impossible to find anything. Most of those women will have a boyfriend, so the rare ones that are single I'll not have the chance to ever meet and even if I do we might not even like each other on a personal level. I'm not MGTOW but the reality is that finding a quality woman is impossible.

If attractive, you pull. Women pull you. Clearly, there's a disconnect. Either you are delusional or beta as ****. Likely, both given your talk about giving up. Tell tale sign of beta and low testosterone.

Finding your ideal doesn't exist since 99% are disgusting and would be stoned in the middle East. Most cucks call *****s their wife and or gf.

Vet hard. Qualify. Many should be disqualified. As in, I lead, she follows or next.

You're frustrated. Not doing it right.


Next her not before trolling. I guarantee most if not all of these *****s you pursued are walking aborted fetuses and *** dumpster.


Step your game up. The alternative is your genes weeded out of existence.

If unable to acquire your genes don't deserve to proliferate across time and space.

Most women don't deserve it either but beta thirst has no bounds.