Why Men Pull Away & How to Deal With It as a High Value Woman

[mrgoodstuff]

lol, yep... it's so funny how we can sit here 1000s of kilometers from each other and discuss the exact same experienced patterns.

You have/understand the mindset.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Advice from the old lady:

Always go by what somebody does. Actions tell the story. However there are some caveats early on in dating.

Somebody has to lead the interaction. This is typically the man's role. Expecting the woman to do it is unrealistic in many instances because many women (especially your better ones) are not socially conditioned to approach men. As a man do not be afraid to approach and do not be afraid to initiate contact that starts the dating cascade. Before it ever becomes any sort of relationship somebody has to initiate contact, ask somebody out, and so forth. Obviously the other party has to be receptive, agreeable and responsive.

A woman's role is to respond and encourage upon contact from the man. Women gauge a man's interest level on his action (or not) of approach, contact, asking out, doing as he says he will do, etc. Men need to gauge a woman on her level of responsiveness (is she receptive/encouraging, does she accept his invitation, does she communicate *which at first will be responding to his communication outreach*, etc.) These roles (initiation & response) are complimentary. If as a man you are unwilling to initiate the sequence, don't be disappointed. You didn't act. Meaning you didn't give her anything to respond to.

High IL women will make it easy for you as a man. Low IL women will not make it easy.

There are a million ways to kill interest level. Some you have control over, others you do not. That is why you always look at actions because they always tell the story.

As the dating interaction is progressing the two people have to understand (assuming each is desirable) that they are competing against other options whom they know nothing about. The other options might be better looking, might be funnier, might be more freaky in bed, might be nicer, might be smarter, or then again the other options might not be. There is a reason the interaction started. There was some level of interest. The idea of dating boils down, very simply, to showing the other person you are the best option FOR YOUR PARTNER. If you are still reaching out to the woman...she should expect you as the man remain interested. If she is still responding you should expect she as the woman remains interested. Obviously these things are fluid, especially before any sort of "relationship" is established.

Here is where people screw it up:

Both men and women get up into their own heads and allow their own insecurities and self talk to destroy interest in many cases. They then start reaching out, chasing after the other person, repeatedly texting or calling and so forth. They start to look needy. This is IL destroying behavior. Even if the other person keeps a dating option around under such circumstances (for sex, booty call, convenience or etc)...it is human nature that this dating option loses value. The key is not to allow the scenario to go there.

This is where "frame" and "game" come into play. Part of frame/game early on is patience as a woman. It is best to be patient and see the observable action of whether or not a man is willing to start the sequence. For a man it is best to start the sequence and then see the observable action of whether or not the woman responds.

See the difference? The roles for men and women are different but complimentary in dating. When you expect men or women to go against the natural order of things you set yourself up for failure. If you think about it further you'll see that this is now many men miss the boat...by failing to initiate the sequence.

If a man does not start the sequence? Then a wise woman takes note of this and understands she is not his top choice and acts accordingly (she moves on).

Only choose from those people who show an interest in you, and do so in the gender appropriate way (men lead; women follow) and you'll greatly reduce your dating headaches. None of us has utterly universal appeal. Pick from the potential partners that are choosing you. Jettison low interest people early after you observe how they act. That saves you time and energy and emotional bandwith.

Women who go chasing after men may in fact catch him...but only until such time as he finds a woman who he has enough interest in to actively pursue. I'm not going to put myself through that and neither will other smart women.

Right! I'm glad you mentioned "bandwidth". The "bandwidth" gets heavily degraded entertaining or even talking to low interest.

 

[sazc]

Advice from the old lady:

Always go by what somebody does. Actions tell the story. However there are some caveats early on in dating.

Somebody has to lead the interaction. This is typically the man's role. Expecting the woman to do it is unrealistic in many instances because many women (especially your better ones) are not socially conditioned to approach men. As a man do not be afraid to approach and do not be afraid to initiate contact that starts the dating cascade. Before it ever becomes any sort of relationship somebody has to initiate contact, ask somebody out, and so forth. Obviously the other party has to be receptive, agreeable and responsive.

A woman's role is to respond and encourage upon contact from the man. Women gauge a man's interest level on his action (or not) of approach, contact, asking out, doing as he says he will do, etc. Men need to gauge a woman on her level of responsiveness (is she receptive/encouraging, does she accept his invitation, does she communicate *which at first will be responding to his communication outreach*, etc.) These roles (initiation & response) are complimentary. If as a man you are unwilling to initiate the sequence, don't be disappointed. You didn't act. Meaning you didn't give her anything to respond to.

High IL women will make it easy for you as a man. Low IL women will not make it easy.

There are a million ways to kill interest level. Some you have control over, others you do not. That is why you always look at actions because they always tell the story.

As the dating interaction is progressing the two people have to understand (assuming each is desirable) that they are competing against other options whom they know nothing about. The other options might be better looking, might be funnier, might be more freaky in bed, might be nicer, might be smarter, or then again the other options might not be. There is a reason the interaction started. There was some level of interest. The idea of dating boils down, very simply, to showing the other person you are the best option FOR YOUR PARTNER. If you are still reaching out to the woman...she should expect you as the man remain interested. If she is still responding you should expect she as the woman remains interested. Obviously these things are fluid, especially before any sort of "relationship" is established.

Here is where people screw it up:

Both men and women get up into their own heads and allow their own insecurities and self talk to destroy interest in many cases. They then start reaching out, chasing after the other person, repeatedly texting or calling and so forth. They start to look needy. This is IL destroying behavior. Even if the other person keeps a dating option around under such circumstances (for sex, booty call, convenience or etc)...it is human nature that this dating option loses value. The key is not to allow the scenario to go there.

This is where "frame" and "game" come into play. Part of frame/game early on is patience as a woman. It is best to be patient and see the observable action of whether or not a man is willing to start the sequence. For a man it is best to start the sequence and then see the observable action of whether or not the woman responds.

See the difference? The roles for men and women are different but complimentary in dating. When you expect men or women to go against the natural order of things you set yourself up for failure. If you think about it further you'll see that this is now many men miss the boat...by failing to initiate the sequence.

If a man does not start the sequence? Then a wise woman takes note of this and understands she is not his top choice and acts accordingly (she moves on).

Only choose from those people who show an interest in you, and do so in the gender appropriate way (men lead; women follow) and you'll greatly reduce your dating headaches. None of us has utterly universal appeal. Pick from the potential partners that are choosing you. Jettison low interest people early after you observe how they act. That saves you time and energy and emotional bandwith.

Women who go chasing after men may in fact catch him...but only until such time as he finds a woman who he has enough interest in to actively pursue. I'm not going to put myself through that and neither will other smart women.

I'm actually about to drop one because, altho I know he is interested, he's not taking the initiative to get to know me. He prefers to suggest a date in the future, confirm the date, and then chat on the date, instead of chatting a bit in between.

If I take it as it appears, low interest, then I should drop him anyways.

If I take it the way my intuition is telling me, he's actually interested in getting to know me because he finds me physically attractive, and is hopung that something will develop. That's normal. However the interaction is absent in attempt to get emotionally closer, yet he will try to escalate on the next date. I'm not having that - majority silence but you think you can escalate? No.

When I step back and assess the situation, the only thing we have in common after 2 dates and 2 weeks of being in contact, is that we are landlords. That it's common thread of our conversations when we are together.

We don't seem to have anything else in common and he's not trying to get to know any semblance of my 'day to day' when we are not around each other. To me that signals that he prefers emotional distance, rather than trying to get close. That's not what I want.

Tldr;
He's failing to lead interaction so I can respond. It's leaving me to believe we have nothing in common, and that he prefers emotional distance. #nextset

 

[R.U.G.]

I'm actually about to drop one because, altho I know he is interested, he's not taking the initiative to get to know me. He prefers to suggest a date in the future, confirm the date, and then chat on the date, instead of chatting a bit in between.

If I take it as it appears, low interest, then I should drop him anyways.

If I take it the way my intuition is telling me, he's interested in getting to know me because he finds me physically attractive and is hopung that something can develop.

When I step back and assess the situation, the only thing we have in common after 2 dates and 2 weeks of being in contact, is that we are landlords. That it's common thread of our conversations when we are together.

We don't seem to have anything else in common and he's not trying to get to know any semblance of my 'day to day' when we are not around each other. To me that signals that he prefers emotional distance, rather than trying to get close. That's not what I want.

He's failing to lead interaction so I can respond. That it's leaving me to believe we have nothing in common. #nextset

Wouldn't drop him so fast. Perhaps he's busy. Does he own his own business? Maybe he's taking care of a family member who's ill. It could be a 1000 different reasons. He could also be following Corey Wayne's or AMS's advice as well. Reach out once per week. Reason being? If a man reaches out more than once a week, it looks like has no other options and not working on his purpose. A woman, albeit unconsciously, would wonder why so early on he responds so fast and not out doing something; whether it be business or personal. Plus, a woman generally doesn't want a puppy dog as a partner; they want a man. A man with purpose, not a lapdog.

FYI, prob. not a good thing talking about business aside from what you guys do and how you got into the business. Talk about each others personal lives so a connection can bond. Did you feel anything from his touch or his kiss?

He could also be shy or just inexperienced. I do not know your age, but it seems many men do not know how to get out of the perverbial dating bag unless shown the door. Takes experience.

 

[sazc]

Wouldn't drop him so fast. Perhaps he's busy. Does he own his own business? Maybe he's taking care of a family member who's ill. It could be a 1000 different reasons. He could also be following Corey Wayne's or AMS's advice as well. Reach out once per week. Reason being? If a man reaches out more than once a week, it looks like has no other options and not working on his purpose. A woman, albeit unconsciously, would wonder why so early on he responds so fast and not out doing something; whether it be business or personal. Plus, a woman generally doesn't want a puppy dog as a partner; they want a man. A man with purpose, not a lapdog.

FYI, prob. not a good thing talking about business aside from what you guys do and how you got into the business. Talk about each others personal lives so a connection can bond. Did you feel anything from his touch or his kiss?

He could also be shy or just inexperienced. I do not know your age, but it seems many men do not know how to get out of the perverbial dating bag unless shown the door. Takes experience.

He is shy, which also gives me pause. I'm not sure I'll be happy with more of a beta. I can be an alpha but eventually lose respect for a beta male.

His job is to manage his rentals. He earns a VERY good income on them, and he is renovating one of them now, but he has time to reach out, we all do. My philosophy on reaching out is, if you are so busy, you can always send a text while taking a dump, and no one knows.

I'm trying to avoid the ones that seem emotionally distant.

Here's the thing, we enjoy spending time together but all we talk about is rentals I could continue to date him, have him take me out, spend money on me, maybe kiss me if he can figure out how to make a move, etc, etc, etc. But his lack of courage, his overall silence, etc, signals me that he's just not the alpha I need him to be, so why lead him on.

The dilemma is how to tell him and be gentle

 

[BeExcellent]

He's failing to lead interaction so I can respond. That it's leaving me to believe we have nothing in common.

I'd think the same thing in your shoes. And I'd move him into the "business contacts" box...

If he likes you beyond as a business contact he'll figure out he's going to have to give you more to go on. If he doesn't or can't (as you noted you need a leader who has some initiative) you'll see if he has what you personally need in a man. And you'll exercise your standards regarding his emotional level of engagement and so forth. And as you alluded to by stating you are likely to drop him...everything sorts itself out for the good of all involved.

The thing that stumps me constantly on this site is this:

Why would anyone want to be with someone who isn't appreciated by their partner? What is the self respectful thing to do in that kind of dating scenario? NEXT!!!

Maybe he's shy and etc., but sometimes its best to take things at face value and be true to what you actually need. That is what you are doing and that shows integrity to yourself. It's not your job to try and mold yourself into liking him (I know you understand this thoroughly - but some of the men here benefit from seeing how good women operate)...and so you may very well be better off to open yourself to other men who have the characteristics you require in a man.

 

[highSpeed]

Huh?

First they "never consider" their red flags, and then they "hide" them?

No, the red flags are hidden and that is to manipulate men into relationships that they never would have considered had the women presented themselves that way in the first place.

 

[sazc]

The thing that stumps me constantly on this site is this:

Why would anyone want to be with someone who isn't appreciated by their partner? What is the self respectful thing to do in that kind of dating scenario? NEXT!!!

Because men respond first and foremost to the possibility of pvssy.

If they are getting it, they'll unconsciously lower their standards to keep it AND/OR make excuses for the woman, to keep it.

If they aren't getting it, they will lower they're standards if it seems like there is the possibility of getting it

Not all men, but you/we can clearly see that happens on this site. Women do it too, just for different reasons.

 

[R.U.G.]

He is shy, which also gives me pause. I'm not sure I'll be happy with more of a beta. I can be an alpha but eventually lose respect for a beta male.

His job is to manage his rentals. He earns a VERY good income on them, and he is renovating one of them now, but he has time to reach out, we all do. My philosophy on reaching out is, if you are so busy, you can always send a text while taking a dump, and no one knows.

I'm trying to avoid the ones that seem emotionally distant.

Here's the thing, we enjoy spending time together but all we talk about is rentals I could continue to date him, have him take me out, spend money on me, maybe kiss me if he can figure out how to make a move, etc, etc, etc. But his lack of courage, his overall silence, etc, signals me that he's just not the alpha I need him to be, so why lead him on.

The dilemma is how to tell him and be gentle

Do what other woman do.. Ghost until he reaches out again. If you've only been out two times, maybe he's more conservative and will attempt it on the third try. If the guy is early 20's maybe he just doesn't have the experience. Maybe he's a Mormon. Who knows. You can drop subtle hints you know... Smile and laugh at something he thinks is funny, play with your hair, be touchy feely with him.. Not every man can be he-man from the get go.

 

[R.U.G.]

Because men respond first and foremost to the possibility of pvssy.

If they are getting it, they'll unconsciously lower their standards to keep it AND/OR make excuses for the woman, to keep it.

If they aren't getting it, they will lower they're standards if it seems like there is the possibility of getting it

Not all men, but you/we can clearly see that happens on this site. Women do it too, just for different reasons.

Not true. I've had women offer me their pus, but if I am not attracted to them, I just move on. Never understood how men (or women) can have sex with a woman (or man) whom they are not attracted to. I could be in a pus drought, I'd still not fvck a fatty. Sorry; the big guy doesn't like fatties. Rather have a flatty than a fatty. Again, personal preference. I had this one chick, who was really really nice. A sweetheart, really she was. However, but I just couldn't do it. She's invited me over to her place to cook dinner and sorts, I declined. She still tries.. Bless her heart.

 

[BeExcellent]

Because men respond first and foremost to the possibility of pvssy.

If they aren't getting it, they will lower they're standards if it seems like there is the possibility of getting it

These two statements really resonate. And these two things speak to a scarcity mindset BEFORE the sex has happened.

A fair percentage of the guys here fall into this category...and you can tell by the things they post and the questions they ask. Those are the guys who chase low IL, and those are the guys who, if they do end up getting sex will lower their standards to keep it coming. Both rooted in scarcity.

Men who have no trouble attracting women and are getting laid often see sex as a commodity sooner or later. Sex itself is easy to obtain (abundance mindset), and therefore sex alone loses value for the man who can get it on the regular from various women. This is the point at which womens' behaviors become predictable, women are more interchangable, etc. like what @Mr Wright and @AttackFormation are discussing. For a woman to stand out to a man who is at this point is a different thing than standing out to the guy who is just trying to get some sex in the first place.

 

[R.U.G.]

These two statements really resonate. And these two things speak to a scarcity mindset BEFORE the sex has happened.

A fair percentage of the guys here fall into this category...and you can tell by the things they post and the questions they ask. Those are the guys who chase low IL, and those are the guys who, if they do end up getting sex will lower their standards to keep it coming. Both rooted in scarcity.

Men who have no trouble attracting women and are getting laid often see sex as a commodity sooner or later. Sex itself is easy to obtain (abundance mindset), and therefore sex alone loses value for the man who can get it on the regular from various women. This is the point at which womens' behaviors become predictable, women are more interchangable, etc. like what @Mr Wright and @AttackFormation are discussing. For a woman to stand out to a man who is at this point is a different thing than standing out to the guy who is just trying to get some sex in the first place.

Some truth to this. I do start to lose interest after I've had sex with the woman. I am sure that's just par for the course. In my age range, women are on guard, men are on guard. Everyone is on guard. I didn't prefer the hookup culture, but it is what it is. Sad if you look at the situation for dating and relationships.

 

[AttackFormation]

Yep. Sometimes seems like it’s only ok for men to use and throw away women, that makes him a player. When a women does it she’s a bit*h. Hypocritical BS.

1) The average guy can't be a player, the average woman can. A player needs some kind of winning combination. He needs to have some or all of confidence through experience, skill, good looks and accomplishment - and then he needs to put in effort to apply that (unless he's got so much of that stuff that he's the equivalent of being a woman, ie. a male model or celebrity). A woman simply needs to let one of the guys hitting on her day to day or through her snapchat, facebook, instagram, dating app, work/school, or social circle aspirants into her pvssy. All she really needs is to lift her fingers across her phone screen and maybe leave the house. She personally doesn't need to be head-turningly good looking, accomplished, skilled, or experienced and confident.

That's why a male player comes with a certain esteem - he is doing something (being arousing to and arousing women) which is beyond most men, when the reverse is not the case. However, women do brag about the guys they fvck whom they perceive to be highly desirable to other women and that would be their real equivalent of getting a player's "esteem" since not every girl gets to fvck Chris Hemsworth etc. What makes women cry is that their equivalent of being a player, trying to fvck and lock down the same guys that most other women are also after, is a losing game for most of them because the demand is and for current humanity always will be greater than the supply and because commitment comes after sex so they can't control it (meanwhile her orbiters think sex comes after being sensitive, kind, jovial and feminist, except they're wrong).

2) Being a player is not about being a "user". It's about the fact that he is arousing enough to women that he, unlike most men, can play the game on a different setting. Women want him because they think other women want him and he's hot, men wish to be like him. I don't think the vast majority of guys even on this forum consider it an uplifting moment to trash a genuine girl's heart. No one is advocating or cheering that on, except for some mentally damaged guys in the anger phase, who are the equivalent of angry feminists. But that's a separate thing from what enables someone to be a player.

 

[AttackFormation]

You are sorely mistaken, but it's an interesting projection of the female mindset regardless. We already know hot women are hot, we don't need to be reminded.

As @da dynamically said, women think men are like them and react to the same stimuli.

I dunno dude, maybe the jealousy ploy works with some or most guys. It seems to be universal among women to think that letting the guy know how many other guys are hitting on her will make him more eager to commit. You'd figure if it didn't work, then either it'd evolve out of women or their mothers would teach them it doesn't work, right?

BeExcellent may be on to something with doing it passively or covertly, instead of clumsily by telling it to your face like our plates do. That probably activates a mate guarding reaction, lol

 

[AttackFormation]

It works on them so they think it works on men, that simple. Extremely high IL women don't do it more than minimally, even when hot. They know they could easily fvck things up if you think she's an unstable option that plays jealousy games. Plus, they didn't need to do it to get you to approach, did they. Normal women LIE and HIDE their options to make sure you take them seriously.


It's the desperate insecure women and crazy women that play the most games like that, it's like a hail mary.

Yeah, but don't you think the "that hot guy at work...", "this guy on my promenade...", "that guy in the gym...", "this dance teacher in the studio...", "this acquaintance...", "that dude on facebook..." is both a jealousy ploy and a way for her to see whether the guy is going to commit? Because that's what I anticipate the ladies we've got here saying. They're going to say they do it to see whether the guy has any intention of committing to them, and they'll move on if he doesn't. Maybe I've caught the pvssy flu, just trying to see all the perspectives here.

 

[HankHill]

Usually the low self esteem women play the jealousy game. In fact, smart women with high IL will go the extra distance to make sure to avoid it.

 

[AJ84]

1) The average guy can't be a player, the average woman can. A player needs some kind of winning combination. He needs to have some or all of confidence through experience, skill, good looks and accomplishment - and then he needs to put in effort to apply that (unless he's got so much of that stuff that he's the equivalent of being a woman, ie. a male model or celebrity). A woman simply needs to let one of the guys hitting on her day to day or through her snapchat, facebook, instagram, dating app, work/school, or social circle aspirants into her pvssy. All she really needs is to lift her fingers across her phone screen and maybe leave the house. She personally doesn't need to be head-turningly good looking, accomplished, skilled, or experienced and confident.

That's why a male player comes with a certain esteem - he is doing something (being arousing to and arousing women) which is beyond most men, when the reverse is not the case. However, women do brag about the guys they fvck whom they perceive to be highly desirable to other women and that would be their real equivalent of getting a player's "esteem" since not every girl gets to fvck Chris Hemsworth etc. What makes women cry is that their equivalent of being a player, trying to fvck and lock down the same guys that most other women are also after, is a losing game for most of them because the demand is and for current humanity always will be greater than the supply and because commitment comes after sex so they can't control it (meanwhile her orbiters think sex comes after being sensitive, kind, jovial and feminist, except they're wrong).

2) Being a player is not about being a "user". It's about the fact that he is arousing enough to women that he, unlike most men, can play the game on a different setting. Women want him because they think other women want him and he's hot, men wish to be like him. I don't think the vast majority of guys even on this forum consider it an uplifting moment to trash a genuine girl's heart. No one is advocating or cheering that on, except for some mentally damaged guys in the anger phase, who are the equivalent of angry feminists. But that's a separate thing from what enables someone to be a player.

Yeah that’s true it’s the angry men who seems to be pushing for that the most. Most guys are not bitter and are actually decent. Just like most girls.
Perhaps ‘player’ was the wrong term but there is a wide association with players being seen as users. Perhaps there should be a more of a distinction between the two, and I would imagine that guys who use and toss women think that they are players.
Women can use men with less effort but there are woman who don’t want to do that.

 

[AttackFormation]

Advice from the old lady:

Always go by what somebody does. Actions tell the story. However there are some caveats early on in dating.

Somebody has to lead the interaction. This is typically the man's role. Expecting the woman to do it is unrealistic in many instances because many women (especially your better ones) are not socially conditioned to approach men. As a man do not be afraid to approach and do not be afraid to initiate contact that starts the dating cascade. Before it ever becomes any sort of relationship somebody has to initiate contact, ask somebody out, and so forth. Obviously the other party has to be receptive, agreeable and responsive.

A woman's role is to respond and encourage upon contact from the man. Women gauge a man's interest level on his action (or not) of approach, contact, asking out, doing as he says he will do, etc. Men need to gauge a woman on her level of responsiveness (is she receptive/encouraging, does she accept his invitation, does she communicate *which at first will be responding to his communication outreach*, etc.) These roles (initiation & response) are complimentary. If as a man you are unwilling to initiate the sequence, don't be disappointed. You didn't act. Meaning you didn't give her anything to respond to.

High IL women will make it easy for you as a man. Low IL women will not make it easy.

There are a million ways to kill interest level. Some you have control over, others you do not. That is why you always look at actions because they always tell the story.

As the dating interaction is progressing the two people have to understand (assuming each is desirable) that they are competing against other options whom they know nothing about. The other options might be better looking, might be funnier, might be more freaky in bed, might be nicer, might be smarter, or then again the other options might not be. There is a reason the interaction started. There was some level of interest. The idea of dating boils down, very simply, to showing the other person you are the best option FOR YOUR PARTNER. If you are still reaching out to the woman...she should expect you as the man remain interested. If she is still responding you should expect she as the woman remains interested. Obviously these things are fluid, especially before any sort of "relationship" is established.

Here is where people screw it up:

Both men and women get up into their own heads and allow their own insecurities and self talk to destroy interest in many cases. They then start reaching out, chasing after the other person, repeatedly texting or calling and so forth. They start to look needy. This is IL destroying behavior. Even if the other person keeps a dating option around under such circumstances (for sex, booty call, convenience or etc)...it is human nature that this dating option loses value. The key is not to allow the scenario to go there.

This is where "frame" and "game" come into play. Part of frame/game early on is patience as a woman. It is best to be patient and see the observable action of whether or not a man is willing to start the sequence. For a man it is best to start the sequence and then see the observable action of whether or not the woman responds.

See the difference? The roles for men and women are different but complimentary in dating. When you expect men or women to go against the natural order of things you set yourself up for failure. If you think about it further you'll see that this is now many men miss the boat...by failing to initiate the sequence.

If a man does not start the sequence? Then a wise woman takes note of this and understands she is not his top choice and acts accordingly (she moves on).

Only choose from those people who show an interest in you, and do so in the gender appropriate way (men lead; women follow) and you'll greatly reduce your dating headaches. None of us has utterly universal appeal. Pick from the potential partners that are choosing you. Jettison low interest people early after you observe how they act. That saves you time and energy and emotional bandwith.

Women who go chasing after men may in fact catch him...but only until such time as he finds a woman who he has enough interest in to actively pursue. I'm not going to put myself through that and neither will other smart women.

I'm not too sure whether you wanted to complement my post or amend something about it. I think what you say makes sense though, in fact I was waiting for the part where it would get controversial. You coulda said this basic stuff in at most 1/3 the text

 

[AJ84]

Some truth to this. I do start to lose interest after I've had sex with the woman. I am sure that's just par for the course. In my age range, women are on guard, men are on guard. Everyone is on guard. I didn't prefer the hookup culture, but it is what it is. Sad if you look at the situation for dating and relationships.

Exactly, so may men and women not really letting anyone in except for sexually. Like the most private thing you can do, sex, is not the most intimate thing. Being truly intimate with another person is scary after a few bad relationships, it’s easy to see why people with those experiences are more weary than someone who has not been burned before.

 

[AttackFormation]

Yeah that’s true it’s the angry men who seems to be pushing for that the most. Most guys are not bitter and are actually decent. Just like most girls.
Perhaps ‘player’ was the wrong term but there is a wide association with players being seen as users. Perhaps there should be a more of a distinction between the two, and I would imagine that guys who use and toss women think that they are players.
Women can use men with less effort but there are woman who don’t want to do that.

Player: Is not necessarily frank (just like no relationship is perfect, the rest of the world isn't perfect either) but basically truthful with women because he doesn't need to lie about wanting a relationship in order to get sex. He already is what women want, and they will be happy either way just to fvck him and hope he chooses her out of his options. The more frank he can afford to be, the more of a player he is. The less so, the less of a player he is - until he just becomes a liar. Women don't regret fvcking a player - they do regret fvcking a liar.

If it's not that, then it's not a player in my book... which is just my book.