Are We All Hedonists Today?

[ChristopherColumbus]

Would it be a heresy to suggest that sex is largely over-rated today, that it has become the raison d'etre of our existence?

The best of this world has been built by men who had risen above their biological urge in the pursuit of a rational desire, where the betterment of the self coincided with the betterment of all. Note, the social and individual interest coincided here.

We seem to live in the shadows of the collapse of this rational ideal, where now everyone is out for themselves, where that equates with the maximization of pleasure, and where that in turn is just identified with sex. All a bit shallow, shabby and squalid no? What say you?

 

[Serenity]

The best of this world has been built by men who had risen above their biological urge

Or they were drowning in pvssy to the point that it more than satisfied their need for it, thus many other things was perceived as more interesting than having sex for the billionth time.

It's the difference between never watching TV and having everything on demand, you become bored when you have all the TV entertainment you can imagine at any time you want. Fvck, I remember when I was a child I'd endlessly crave watching certain TV shows when they aired. Nowadays I can watcg whatever I want whenever I want and none of it interests me much. Same with sex IMO, I craved it when I had little of it but now that I can have it whenever I want it I spend a lot less time occupying my mind with sex.

I highly doubt those great men you're talking about had risen above their biological urge through abstaining, it was probably the exact opposite. Get so much of it that it no longer brings any excitement. Suppressing urges is a great way to live a miserable and suppressed life though, to pretend one is not human.

Rational ideal is a fvcking joke, we always strive towards maximization of pleasure. You say it as if we should let go of a good life to live according to some arbitrary hollow ideal, but what is the meaning of life if not pleasure? Any problem we solve is motivated and that motivation is to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. Going against that is entirely possible, but it is fvcking stupid.

I think you should philosphize further on this one, because your thinking seems to be full of holes.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Or they were drowning in pvssy to the point that it more than satisfied their need for it, thus many other things was perceived as more interesting than having sex for the billionth time.

It's the difference between never watching TV and having everything on demand, you become bored when you have all the TV entertainment you can imagine at any time you want. Fvck, I remember when I was a child I'd endlessly crave watching certain TV shows when they aired. Nowadays I can watcg whatever I want whenever I want and none of it interests me much. Same with sex IMO, I craved it when I had little of it but now that I can have it whenever I want it I spend a lot less time occupying my mind with sex.

I highly doubt those great men you're talking about had risen above their biological urge through abstaining, it was probably the exact opposite. Get so much of it that it no longer brings any excitement. Suppressing urges is a great way to live a miserable and suppressed life though, to pretend one is not human.

Rational ideal is a fvcking joke, we always strive towards maximization of pleasure. You say it as if we should let go of a good life to live according to some arbitrary hollow ideal, but what is the meaning of life if not pleasure? Any problem we solve is motivated and that motivation is to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. Going against that is entirely possible, but it is fvcking stupid.

I think you should philosphize further on this one, because your thinking seems to be full of holes.

Well, it's all about interpretation isn't it. The majority of people are simply too cynical today to believe in rational ideals... why be one of the majority?

 

[zekko]

Do you get more satisfaction from working hard to acheive something or from simply wallowing in pleasure? Therein lies the answer.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Blame the media

The blame lies deeper than this. The cynicism that has led to empty lives of hedonism [which suits the economic planners perfectly by the way] derives from a bankrupt intellectual culture. The main culprits being Marx, Nietzsche, and Freud. All these ideologies fuel materialism... and materialism is the ultimate fatalism which says we can not determine our own lives creatively [though there is an element of this in Nietzsche]. It leads to a quiet despair, where one is just left to squeeze as much happiness out of life as they can. happiness is left undefined... and really boils down to just chemical pleasure in the brain. Why wouldn't pornography become the ideal in this picture of life?

We are culturally corrupt because we are morally corrupt, and we are morally corrupt because we are intellectually corrupt.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Do you get more satisfaction from working hard to acheive something or from simply wallowing in pleasure? Therein lies the answer.

Yes, this goes to show that there are higher orders of pleasures. Aesthetic pleasure is a good example [Epicurus was no simple hedonist... his more nuanced approach counter-balances the Stoics nicely]. The lower pleasures are very fleeting and more than often lead to pain. It's these kind of ethical considerations that men are largely ignoring today.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Rational ideal is a fvcking joke, we always strive towards maximization of pleasure. You say it as if we should let go of a good life to live according to some arbitrary hollow ideal, but what is the meaning of life if not pleasure? Any problem we solve is motivated and that motivation is to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. Going against that is entirely possible, but it is fvcking stupid.

I think you should philosphize further on this one, because your thinking seems to be full of holes.

This is the beginning of the Good Life... asking what it could consist in. And so begins the rational ideal....

Unless a person examines the ideas of pleasure and pain more closely, he might end up in the awful situation of trying to satisfy the insatiable. Unrestrained desire lies like a black hole at the center of us... and many become more miserable the more they attempt to fill it. Sisyphus comes to mind...

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

you just romanticized an infinite Cesspool of pornography pumped into our culture from the top down. It's not CasaBlanca.

No, I'm just pointing out the logical conclusions of the false world-view that predominates today. Argumentum ad absurdum I believe. And I think it has come to pass. Pornography is running rife through the living rooms of the nice middle-class suburbs in near every city today. I think the radical split between the private and public aspects of life contribute to this. In private, we think anything goes [freedom is anarchy]; in public, we submit to a system that makes no sense to us.

The way out of this morass is to live a self-determined intelligible life.... integrity [wholeness] . This presupposes rational ideals.

Materialism is the real culprit here. If we are nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain, then why wouldn't a brain stuck in a vat fed the best stimuli be the best life [enter the sci fi dystopias... and the pornographers]. Intuitively we now this lacks all freedom and dignity. So it would seem we need to start with the presupposition that we are something like embodied spirit contra materialism.

 

[Poonani Maker]

Sex does get boring...with the wrong girl(s). Many girls are uninspiring. You get one though, that seduces You and can hypnotize you, setting the traps, and spinning her webs, and can Be erotic and brilliantly energetic moving her body and directing you kissing you in HER room where She sleeps with Her music (or no music) and her decor (lights, smells, comfort). THAT in my experience in the past yonder years and just recently, has been my most otherworldly times on this planet. If I'm being taken into her lair (say maybe mirrors on 3 sides), if me and her are there for Sex as would be in a dim-lit concert or music performance, her moaning and you doing Everything to her.

Very few women can put a spell on you with hand gestures and speech, clapping or direction, changing subjects both wide and narrow, dumbed down or technical as the situation warrants. Very few women have studied the arts of encapsulating a man, him walking into Her territory, her ground, where she feels comfortable and confident to seduce with anchors in place to ensure her deception of you. There's nothing more erotic, the moaning especially, even if she's faking but I know she's not, she's indulging all pleasure she can eek out from your c0ck. That's when sex is something powerful to keep you wanting more and more and more...when the female puts in the effect. Maybe she wants a diamond ring on down the line. We don't know. Maybe she wants bigger and better COMMITMENT. That is most likely the motivation for pleasuring ALL your senses.

It's the girls who DO nothing that give a bad name to sex, and there are Many half-as5ed b!tches out there who get a lot but give very little.

 

[zekko]

There's nothing wrong with sex, per se. But like the original post says, when it becomes your whole reason for being, when it climbs too high on your priority list, then multiply that by everybody else in the culture, including the women who are supposed to mother your children, it becomes a problem. It's trading long term satisfaction for short term pleasure, and that's rarely a good thing. It makes for a good release, but you CAN overdo it.

I've always said that the guys I know who get laid the most by the most different women are just complete dunderheads. All they care about is their next lay. They aren't very smart, they aren't very good at anything, but they can talk to girls and seduce them. That's practically all they are interested in, and they are always working on whatever girl is in the vicinity to set up the next lay. They get every girl's cellphone number and text them "When are we gonna fvck?". They have the IDGAF attitude because all they care about is getting the lay - they're too focused on that to be self conscious about it.

But I would never change places with one of these guys because they're just buffoons with nothing going for them, except that they are obsessed with sex.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Yes, it's getting a sense of proportion. There are more important ends in life than getting your end away. In fact, I'd say that the end result of this obsession with sex is that it will make not only relationships but also casual sex in the future even more problematic.

Men should be thinking [re-sponsibly] about the future [making the future], both in the individual and collective sense. Otherwise, the future may be a nasty place.

 

[Poonani Maker]

I just wish I could stay young forever and fvck girls forever. Of course, if confined to Hell, say your greatest pleasure on Earth would be your due punishment in the afterlife, then if that's ALL you could do, then sure, that'd be Hell, just as a king who could get anything he wanted would be in Hell on Earth. I think of King Louis XVIII of France beginning of the 19th century. The guy was a glutton, disgusting, and in France to be "presentable" was paramount and he wasn't so they detested him and kept him from appearing until he was not so standing a grotesque figure in public (ugly, very fat). King Louis XV, well before in the mid-18th century, also was horrible taking peasants daughters away from them (all virgins) and doing all of them EVERY DAY a different one. He tortured people heinously, quartering them, burning hands off, filling people with water to where they'd burst. A lot of that was why the French Revolution was so gory blood flowing in the square of Paris and other cities upwards of 1400 heads guillotined in 40 days (just one city) June - July 1794. King Louis XVI lost his head as well as his wife Marie Antoinette (but before she lost hers the mob had hacked off her #1 female servant's head and stuck it on a pike raised it up to her window ~ balcony). It is said that Marie Antoinette didn't even look away (as you would think), but just stared coldly. She had the temperment to think "what's done is done" and not be affected.

Routinely, ALL men had "mistresses," and pretty much all women (married or not) held lovers all throughout their lives in France, England, Spain, etc. Of course, nobody bathed hardly, and pooping (chamber pot) was carried away by servants.

The world is a cruel place, and there will ALWAYS be wars. The book, "War Through the Ages," 1000 pages, will drive that point home for good. Our current generals (WWII soldiers are considered by the rest of Europe and the world to have been the weakest fighters, it's the consensus, yet they called themselves, "The Greatest Generation" patting themselves on the backs and demanding lifelong benefits), do not fight intelligently as pre-WWII generals did. Generals from West Point 19th century on back to ancient Greece could out-maneuver ANY current general today. It doesn't matter how many books on war one studied, it was the brain capacity of generals of the past tell the tale of the tape.

Today they are simply Obedient puppy dogs, beat down like dogs (except dogs are treated a lot better) in Basic Training.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I just wish I could stay young forever and fvck girls forever. Of course, if confined to Hell, say your greatest pleasure on Earth would be your due punishment in the afterlife, then if that's ALL you could do, then sure, that'd be Hell, just as a king who could get anything he wanted would be in Hell on Earth. I think of King Louis XVIII of France beginning of the 19th century. The guy was a glutton, disgusting, and in France to be "presentable" was paramount and he wasn't so they detested him and kept him from appearing until he was not so standing a grotesque figure in public (ugly, very fat). King Louis XV, well before in the mid-18th century, also was horrible taking peasants daughters away from them (all virgins) and doing all of them EVERY DAY a different one. He tortured people heinously, quartering them, burning hands off, filling people with water to where they'd burst. A lot of that was why the French Revolution was so gory blood flowing in the square of Paris and other cities upwards of 1400 heads guillotined in 40 days (just one city) June - July 1794. King Louis XVI lost his head as well as his wife Marie Antoinette (but before she lost hers the mob had hacked off her #1 female servant's head and stuck it on a pike raised it up to her window ~ balcony). It is said that Marie Antoinette didn't even look away (as you would think), but just stared coldly. She had the temperment to think "what's done is done" and not be affected.

Routinely, ALL men had "mistresses," and pretty much all women (married or not) held lovers all throughout their lives in France, England, Spain, etc. Of course, nobody bathed hardly, and pooping (chamber pot) was carried away by servants.

The world is a cruel place, and there will ALWAYS be wars. The book, "War Through the Ages," 1000 pages, will drive that point home for good. Our current generals (WWII soldiers are considered by the rest of Europe and the world to have been the weakest fighters, it's the consensus, yet they called themselves, "The Greatest Generation" patting themselves on the backs and demanding lifelong benefits), do not fight intelligently as pre-WWII generals did. Generals from West Point 19th century on back to ancient Greece could out-maneuver ANY current general today. It doesn't matter how many books on war one studied, it was the brain capacity of generals of the past tell the tale of the tape.

Today they are simply Obedient puppy dogs, beat down like dogs (except dogs are treated a lot better) in Basic Training.

The men are beat down like dogs?

 

[corrector]

It's the difference between never watching TV and having everything on demand, you become bored when you have all the TV entertainment you can imagine at any time you want.

That's not entirely true. With new websites out like "What's Leaving Netflix", you are sort of forced to watch programs before they leave the website. Since there is limited time to watch certain content, it defeats the "on demand" since licensing agreements could expire. While rentals are technically on demand, you still have to pay for them, and of course, if you go free and borrow, you still have to wait your turn. You still can't watch movies that are currently playing in theaters that have not been released to home video yet. So, no, not everything is on demand, or if it's technically on demand, doesn't mean it's free.

Fvck, I remember when I was a child I'd endlessly crave watching certain TV shows when they aired.

Yeah, but you grow up. Something would be wrong with you if you still like watching the same TV shows you liked as a child. You grow up and your tastes change as you age.

Nowadays I can watcg whatever I want whenever I want and none of it interests me much.

I wish things were really on demand as you are saying. At least there is always the library to borrow stuff you can't find online.

I highly doubt those great men you're talking about had risen above their biological urge through abstaining, it was probably the exact opposite. Get so much of it that it no longer brings any excitement. Suppressing urges is a great way to live a miserable and suppressed life though, to pretend one is not human.

I don't think so, you are more likely to be miserable if you are broke. If sex were so great then why do married couples (i.e. including in my case) even divorce. Obviously there are many other factors at play besides sex. Vivaldi and Newton are famed virgins. You can not defame the reputation of historical characters like that. You are not a historian.

Rational ideal is a fvcking joke, we always strive towards maximization of pleasure. You say it as if we should let go of a good life to live according to some arbitrary hollow ideal, but what is the meaning of life if not pleasure? Any problem we solve is motivated and that motivation is to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. Going against that is entirely possible, but it is fvcking stupid.

That is why you are an atheist. You would have to be one to believe that nonsense.

I think you should philosphize further on this one, because your thinking seems to be full of holes.

Your belief system if full of holes since you don't know God.

 

[Alvafe]

feh I could start a discuss of morality and god but serious it was already done and god did not well

but to settle things on, everyone is a hedonyst, yes everyone was and still is, you do things because there is some pleasure for you on it, the main issue was always on how much pleasure we could get from it, a little or much, that never did change, only thing with really changed is now we don't try to mask it as duty, or obligation, still most things we sure don't take pleasure are thing imposed from someone else, be it parents, goverment, or society

 

[Serenity]

Yeah, but you grow up. Something would be wrong with you if you still like watching the same TV shows you liked as a child. You grow up and your tastes change as you age.

You missed my point entirely. I wasn't talking about the specific TV shows, I was talking about the difference in behavior then and now. I don't watch TV the same way now, I barely watch TV at all. If I want to watch something I don't have to see it at a specific time, I just stream it. With all that choice I choose mostly none.

Vivaldi and Newton are famed virgins. You can not defame the reputation of historical characters like that. You are not a historian.

Yeah there's always exceptions. Many insignificant people also don't have sex. You're going besides my point again.

That is why you are an atheist. You would have to be one to believe that nonsense.

The fvck does this have to do with anything?

Your belief system if full of holes since you don't know God.

You can take your sense of superiority and shove it up your a$$hole. Your imaginary friend has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[corrector]

You missed my point entirely. I wasn't talking about the specific TV shows, I was talking about the difference in behavior then and now. I don't watch TV the same way now, I barely watch TV at all. If I want to watch something I don't have to see it at a specific time, I just stream it. With all that choice I choose mostly none.


Yeah there's always exceptions. Many insignificant people also don't have sex. You're going besides my point again.


The fvck does this have to do with anything?


You can take your sense of superiority and shove it up your a$$hole. Your imaginary friend has nothing to do with this discussion.

You missed the point of life.

 

[corrector]

feh I could start a discuss of morality and god but serious it was already done and god did not well

It's not going to go well because "pleasure" as people definite it on this type of board is sin. To believe in God, that means your life is to please Him, rather than yourself and that means you have to repent from having sex with women that you are not married to. That's the only type of pleasure people understand here since people's live and value is constructed around how much women they can get or their ability to attract a hot woman and generally frown about the idea of marriage. The atheist or pagan pleasure model is generally (unless they are a sociopath) is to live for pleasure as long as nobody is hurt in the process....since the true God doesn't exist in their mind, then they are incapable of understanding godlessness in seeking human / self victim-less types of pleasure where God would be the victim of said pleasure as it's a sin to Him.

but to settle things on, everyone is a hedonyst, yes everyone was and still is, you do things because there is some pleasure for you on it, the main issue was always on how much pleasure we could get from it, a little or much, that never did change, only thing with really changed is now we don't try to mask it as duty, or obligation, still most things we sure don't take pleasure are thing imposed from someone else, be it parents, goverment, or society

So if the government, parents or society imposed sex with a hot woman then that would no longer be pleasurable? That would be a first.

 

[corrector]

2 Timothy 3 "This we know, in the last days perilous days shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 4. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good. 5. Traitors, heady, highminded, LOVERS OF PLEASURE MORE THAN LOVERS OF GOD."

Are we living in that type of world today? Is this what the Bible is talking about "the last days"?

I was inspired from the above song to post this.

Please do not miss the rapture and make sure you are right with God. I don't know when this is going to happen. People have predicted dates before and they were all wrong. Jesus said, no man knows the hour. As part of the signs of the times, people will love pleasure, as the OP is saying.

God does will all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim 2:4)

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

feh I could start a discuss of morality and god but serious it was already done and god did not well....but to settle things on, everyone is a hedonyst, yes everyone was and still is, you do things because there is some pleasure for you on it, the main issue was always on how much pleasure we could get from it, a little or much, that never did change, only thing with really changed is now we don't try to mask it as duty, or obligation, still most things we sure don't take pleasure are thing imposed from someone else, be it parents, goverment, or society

This is exactly what I meant when I mentioned we have lost our 'integrity' [as in wholeness between the rational and irrational sides of us] - "In private, we think anything goes [freedom is anarchy]; in public, we submit to a system that makes no sense to us."

More than irreligious, this way of thinking, which is not thinking at all but mass thought, is de-humanizing.