Women and arguments/fights

[lizardking82]

We need to stop the type of thinking that ends with "with a woman". Why on Earth would you treat an argument with a woman as something special compared to an argument with a man? A woman is more emotional, a man is more logical, but it's not like women have no logic and men have no emotions.

A woman is a human being. Stop pedestalizing them cause they have a vag. You treat an argument with a woman just like you would treat an argument with your brother or with a friend or with another man. You present your point/s (sometimes even amidst the other party speaking and interrupting) and you watch how they react. It amazes me as to how men think women are some special creature came from another planet. Bro, she is just like you, she sh1ts, she eats, she p1sses, she smells bad sometimes, she's ****ed up in the head sometimes and does things out of stress. Treat them like human beings. That sh1t where women go "I am always right" is made possible by people who ask questions like "How should I treat an argument with a woman?".

 

[jacketrunner]

Advice from the old lady:

The rule of thumb is withdraw your attention. Listen. I'm a chick. What you see bandied about here is completely true regarding currency. A man's currency is physical affection. Women know this. That is why physical affection often (not always, but often) becomes a means of dictating the terms of the relationship. When a woman witholds sexual activity from her man it is often her exertion of control over the man. Over time as the woman continues to be allowed to exert this kind of control, she resents it and she loses respect for the man. He becomes too easily manipulated. Whipped, if you will.

If rather than playing by her rules and her exertion of control over access to sex you withdraw your attention (a woman's currency is attention) then you regain your autonomy in the relationship dynamic. Why? Because any woman with 2 ounces of intelligence knows that if she refuses sex AND you disappear for any length of time that you are going to seek physical affection elsewhere. This is the assumption women will make because they know perfectly well that they withheld physical affection...when your response is to withdraw attention the woman is put on notice that you may find physical affection elsewhere.

Search the threads around here on "Silence and Distance". It is spectacularly effective.

So deal in her currency just as she deals in yours.

And regarding anger: Be slow to anger. Exert better self control. Angry people are extremely easy to manipulate. If you need to say your peace about something. Fine. Say it. Define your standard and see if she tows the line. And if she doesn't? Silence and distance up to and including a willingness to walk from the relationship.

I think being angry can be a good way to express your displeasure without fear, in a non manipulative way.

When you’re angry, you don’t worry about hurting the person. You’re just asserting the way you feel and not taking any ****.

While the girl might not accept it in the moment, she likely hears and understands it for future reference.

As long as you can make up afterwards, and show her you care, it might be a healthy thing to do.

 

[jacketrunner]

I think being angry can be a good way to express your displeasure without fear, in a non manipulative way.

When you’re angry, you don’t worry about hurting the person. You’re just asserting the way you feel and not taking any ****.

While the girl might not accept it in the moment, she likely hears and understands it for future reference.

As long as you can make up afterwards, and show her you care, it might be a healthy thing to do.

You don’t want to overuse this card, but good leaders express anger in a controlled way.

Controlled anger might be the way to go sometimes, although withdrawing attention works too.

 

[jacketrunner]

I th

We need to stop the type of thinking that ends with "with a woman". Why on Earth would you treat an argument with a woman as something special compared to an argument with a man? A woman is more emotional, a man is more logical, but it's not like women have no logic and men have no emotions.

A woman is a human being. Stop pedestalizing them cause they have a vag. You treat an argument with a woman just like you would treat an argument with your brother or with a friend or with another man. You present your point/s (sometimes even amidst the other party speaking and interrupting) and you watch how they react. It amazes me as to how men think women are some special creature came from another planet. Bro, she is just like you, she sh1ts, she eats, she p1sses, she smells bad sometimes, she's ****ed up in the head sometimes and does things out of stress. Treat them like human beings. That sh1t where women go "I am always right" is made possible by people who ask questions like "How should I treat an argument with a woman?".

I think you don’t want to be rational. You’ll never logically convince an upset girl to see the error of her ways. But anger is an emotion, not a form of logic, which girls can respond to sometimes.

If a badass guy is angry, people listen. Think of The Incredible Hulk. He’s not going to rationally convince you to respect him, but you will respect him.

 

[lizardking82]

I th


I think you don’t want to be rational. You’ll never logically convince an upset girl to see the error of her ways. But anger is an emotion, not a form of logic, which girls can respond to sometimes.

If a badass guy is angry, people listen. Think of The Incredible Hulk. He’s not going to rationally convince you to respect him, but you will respect him.

I can't give two ****s about convincing her. I totally understand when someone is very emotional and closed to logical discussion and I mostly leave it at that, but I will have that conversation with them. There are no "forbidden topics" or ones "you don't touch" with women. I touch what I wanna touch, no matter what. She wants to leave? Leave.

Women in your life will either see you as a master of reason and as a leader or they will **** test you every moment and not let you hang out in peace and will make fights and drama over nothing.

If you do not train her to become less emotional and know who she's talking to, she will spill out her guts almost in any situation where she can and feels like because by default, they don't respect you. The grow respect for you depending on how you handle their misbehaviours and the arguments you guys have and she will make sure to have arguments with you anytime she doubts your value and integrity and spine as a man. If she senses a strong spine since the beginning, she will make few to no fights. Men with a backbone are rare nowadays and no matter how emotional women are, they know when they find a good man who has his own beliefs and will not bend anytime she feels like it.

 

[sazc]

I th


I think you don’t want to be rational. You’ll never logically convince an upset girl to see the error of her ways. But anger is an emotion, not a form of logic, which girls can respond to sometimes.

If a badass guy is angry, people listen. Think of The Incredible Hulk. He’s not going to rationally convince you to respect him, but you will respect him.

Agreed. If you want to work it out, always best to cool down

 

[jacketrunner]

Agreed. If you want to work it out, always best to cool down

My parents and grandparents have had successful relationships and they fight and snip at each other constantly.

They just make up well afterwards. If you always try to repress your anger, you can end up with Nice Guy syndrome.

 

[sazc]

My parents and grandparents have had successful relationships and they fight and snip at each other constantly.

They just make up well afterwards. If you always try to repress your anger, you can end up with Nice Guy syndrome.

Sure but you can't have one person acting a complete fool and then trying to deflect when you want to take it up with them. That's bvllchit

 

[resilient]

Listening in a calm direct manner when tempers have been cooled down is when the couple can reach a compromise or felt heard. In the heat of anger though, so much of words are tossed in the air from deep inflicted wounds often triggered from childhood issues.

Distance is absolutely necessary with an understanding and agreement that the topic will resume discussion with cooler heads on both sides.

I read a ton of relationship books when I was in a relationship for nearly a decade, most of that married. John Gottman’s books then were priceless and helped me to navigate around those difficult conversations when anger, resentment, stonewalling, and withdrawal crept up.

 

[jacketrunner]

Listening in a calm direct manner when tempers have been cooled down is when the couple can reach a compromise or felt heard. In the heat of anger though, so much of words are tossed in the air from deep inflicted wounds often triggered from childhood issues.

Distance is absolutely necessary with an understanding and agreement that the topic will resume discussion with cooler heads on both sides.

I read a ton of relationship books when I was in a relationship for nearly a decade, most of that married. John Gottman’s books then were priceless and helped me to navigate around those difficult conversations when anger, resentment, stonewalling, and withdrawal crept up.

Which Gottman book would you most recommend?

 

[BeExcellent]

@BeExcellent if your current man employed silence and distance with you because of a similar scenario, would you REALLY go chasing after him?

Doubt it

Well a situation like what is going on with the OP wouldn't happen with me in the first place for a number of reasons. One, I only get into relationships with men who I desire sexually, and once in such a relationship I do not withhold sex. I've never been that way. I have always thought women who withhold sex are doing themselves 2 disservices. Firstly they are denying themselves sex and the accompanying bonding...and second they are giving their man an excuse to seek physical affection elsewhere (which I consider a foolish thing to do.) Historically and currently I have relationships with men who lots of other women find desirable...and such men can easily seek physical gratification elsewhere to the detriment of the relationship. I can too for that matter. So for all those reasons I do not use sex as a bargaining chip/negotiating tool. I think women who do are shortsighted and shoot themselves in the foot. Maybe these women date or marry men who do not have other options or who are too meek to exercise their options. That is on the man. Those are not men I deal with, but I'm not going to say that isn't a factor in the dynamics between other people.

To be honest there have been occasions when Silence and Distance have been deployed against me in relationship. There are times when I am out of line and withdrawal of attention is the sensisble thing for the man to do. And I have been known to deploy Silence and Distance myself from time to time. Whether I am utilizing it or whether my man is the result is the same. It makes the other person stop and consider the value they assign to the relationship and to the other person. If there is no value then things are simple, and the solution may be to walk away. If however there is value, then I will turn over the issue at hand in my mind and give things quite a bit of thought. If upon reflection I think I am out of line, then I have been known to reach out, extend the olive branch, apologize and invite reconciliation. I don't chase, but I'll state clearly that I am out of line, and that I am contrite and wait to see if my communication starts a conversation (seeking a resolution to whatever the issue happens to be.) If I do not think I am out of line then I am content to wait and see if my man reaches out to me. In my experience for example in my current relationship the party who has been out of line is the one to initiate the conversation which leads to resolution (and resolution may be an agreement to disagree on occasion.) Neither of us is naive and both of us know the game very well. We also appreciate the things we each bring to the table and have to offer one another. In other words we both see the value the other one has and we know that finding someone else who is as good an individual match is no small feat so there is incentive to work through things.

But we communicate rather well and are not afraid to tackle prickly issues head on. I can't think of a time I would consider either he or I as angry in any sort of out of control way. Displeased? You bet. Annoyed? Yes. Disrespected? Yup. But we sit down together and discuss what happened, we both listen to understand, we neither one put up with deflection, blaming or projection (we call each other out on that type of thing immediately)...and we are extremely direct in what we say to one another, even though it may be a hard thing for the other person to hear. The result of that type of communication is self-respect and respect for each other. Just earlier this evening we were chatting and my boyfriend made a comment about how he appreciates the way we communicate and how he likes the way I hold him accountable and expect him to meet my standard. He's not had that before, and while it certainly has not been a cakewalk, he sees the value and the self-respect I have, and therefore he acts with respect toward me (it has increased over time rather than decreased) and greater self-respect.

If he is annoyed about something he will say so without hesitation. I make it a habit to listen closely if he expresses annoyance and I seek to understand WHY he is annoyed. He does the same when I have a bone to pick with him. At times I don't get what the big deal is...and vice versa. But it is still important to listen and understand where the other person is coming from. Then a conversation ensues that facilitates better understanding of each other, whether or not he and I agree. We don't always agree. And that's OK. We are two different people. We aren't going to be in lockstep on everything. Sometimes THAT is the tougher thing to digest. But digest it we must.

I do not see that level of maturity in the scenario put forth by the OP. But I do think Silence and Distance is a useful thing to do for the reasons noted. It works on me and it works on men who I date. It works because it makes the other person consider the value of the other party and the relationship itself. And it is best done from a place of conscious choice and self control. Not as a game playing thing and not as a knee jerk thing.

 

[ubercat]

Apologies if I missed it guys didn't have time for the whole thread. Try and delay talking about things until the next day 80 percent of the time her
mood will have passed and that talk will never happen.

 

[Soflobro#3]

I just don't like how passive this is. If you let a little masculine anger out it might actually help your case in certain circumstances.

losing control of your emotions is weakness. If she disrespected you that much you might as well eject or just monkey branch (start spinning plates).

A disrespectful girlfriend doesn't deserve loyalty. She certainly doesn't deserve the validation you'd be giving her by throwing a temper tantrum. Just start talking to other chicks, and get whatever you can get out of her now.

Once the disrespectful behavior gets out of hand you need to be selfish as fvck. The ideal thing to do is to dump her, block her and find a new one. But its not that easy when you're in a committed relationship. So just cheat on her and use her. No one likes being disrespected.

 

[jacketrunner]

losing control of your emotions is weakness. If she disrespected you that much you might as well eject or just monkey branch (start spinning plates).

A disrespectful girlfriend doesn't deserve loyalty. She certainly doesn't deserve the validation you'd be giving her by throwing a temper tantrum. Just start talking to other chicks, and get whatever you can get out of her now.

Once the disrespectful behavior gets out of hand you need to be selfish as fvck. The ideal thing to do is to dump her, block her and find a new one. But its not that easy when you're in a committed relationship. So just cheat on her and use her. No one likes being disrespected.

What if you’re in a marriage with kids? It’s not that simple then.

 

[Soflobro#3]

What if you’re in a marriage with kids? It’s not that simple then.

You're right in that case its not. Maybe fake your death or hope she dies instead. Its sad we live in a society where women are allowed to use children and divorce as a pawn.

 

[Soflobro#3]

It's easier to focus on what you said it did than for her to admit she was in the wrong too.

That's why it is SUPER important to always maintain your dignity during disagreements. She's going to poke, prod, and antagonize, always maintain. This way she's got NOTHING on you, and the focus is on her, and her sh1t.

That said, if you need to address her behavior (or whatever caused the initial issue) do not phrase it as "if you hadn't have done X, I wouldn't have reacted that way"

What you need to do is figure out the behavior she did that upset you and have THAT conversation. If she tries to deflect by jumping back to how you behaved, simply say "we've discussed that, I apologized and I will maintain from now on. I want to discuss X that you did"

In order to make this a successful conversation, figure out what she did that you found unacceptable/distespectful, explain that to her, and let her know you expect to not be treated that way again.

If she tries to deflect by jumping back to how you behaved, simply say "we've discussed that, I've apologized and I will maintain from now on. I want to discuss X that you did"

Good luck, these conversations are difficult. Her response will clearly indicate if she sees you as valuable enough to work with/for, or if she's trying to remain the alpha dog/ in charge of the relationship

Women usually wont admit they're wrong relative to men.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Women usually wont admit they're wrong relative to men.

They think it'll hurt their image. When it'll actually help it.

 

[Soflobro#3]

Well a situation like what is going on with the OP wouldn't happen with me in the first place for a number of reasons. One, I only get into relationships with men who I desire sexually, and once in such a relationship I do not withhold sex. I've never been that way. I have always thought women who withhold sex are doing themselves 2 disservices. Firstly they are denying themselves sex and the accompanying bonding...and second they are giving their man an excuse to seek physical affection elsewhere (which I consider a foolish thing to do.) Historically and currently I have relationships with men who lots of other women find desirable...and such men can easily seek physical gratification elsewhere to the detriment of the relationship. I can too for that matter. So for all those reasons I do not use sex as a bargaining chip/negotiating tool. I think women who do are shortsighted and shoot themselves in the foot. Maybe these women date or marry men who do not have other options or who are too meek to exercise their options. That is on the man. Those are not men I deal with, but I'm not going to say that isn't a factor in the dynamics between other people.

To be honest there have been occasions when Silence and Distance have been deployed against me in relationship. There are times when I am out of line and withdrawal of attention is the sensisble thing for the man to do. And I have been known to deploy Silence and Distance myself from time to time. Whether I am utilizing it or whether my man is the result is the same. It makes the other person stop and consider the value they assign to the relationship and to the other person. If there is no value then things are simple, and the solution may be to walk away. If however there is value, then I will turn over the issue at hand in my mind and give things quite a bit of thought. If upon reflection I think I am out of line, then I have been known to reach out, extend the olive branch, apologize and invite reconciliation. I don't chase, but I'll state clearly that I am out of line, and that I am contrite and wait to see if my communication starts a conversation (seeking a resolution to whatever the issue happens to be.) If I do not think I am out of line then I am content to wait and see if my man reaches out to me. In my experience for example in my current relationship the party who has been out of line is the one to initiate the conversation which leads to resolution (and resolution may be an agreement to disagree on occasion.) Neither of us is naive and both of us know the game very well. We also appreciate the things we each bring to the table and have to offer one another. In other words we both see the value the other one has and we know that finding someone else who is as good an individual match is no small feat so there is incentive to work through things.

But we communicate rather well and are not afraid to tackle prickly issues head on. I can't think of a time I would consider either he or I as angry in any sort of out of control way. Displeased? You bet. Annoyed? Yes. Disrespected? Yup. But we sit down together and discuss what happened, we both listen to understand, we neither one put up with deflection, blaming or projection (we call each other out on that type of thing immediately)...and we are extremely direct in what we say to one another, even though it may be a hard thing for the other person to hear. The result of that type of communication is self-respect and respect for each other. Just earlier this evening we were chatting and my boyfriend made a comment about how he appreciates the way we communicate and how he likes the way I hold him accountable and expect him to meet my standard. He's not had that before, and while it certainly has not been a cakewalk, he sees the value and the self-respect I have, and therefore he acts with respect toward me (it has increased over time rather than decreased) and greater self-respect.

If he is annoyed about something he will say so without hesitation. I make it a habit to listen closely if he expresses annoyance and I seek to understand WHY he is annoyed. He does the same when I have a bone to pick with him. At times I don't get what the big deal is...and vice versa. But it is still important to listen and understand where the other person is coming from. Then a conversation ensues that facilitates better understanding of each other, whether or not he and I agree. We don't always agree. And that's OK. We are two different people. We aren't going to be in lockstep on everything. Sometimes THAT is the tougher thing to digest. But digest it we must.

I do not see that level of maturity in the scenario put forth by the OP. But I do think Silence and Distance is a useful thing to do for the reasons noted. It works on me and it works on men who I date. It works because it makes the other person consider the value of the other party and the relationship itself. And it is best done from a place of conscious choice and self control. Not as a game playing thing and not as a knee jerk thing.

don't think this was long enough

 

[Designer Man]

Well a situation like what is going on with the OP wouldn't happen with me in the first place for a number of reasons. One, I only get into relationships with men who I desire sexually, and once in such a relationship I do not withhold sex. I've never been that way. I have always thought women who withhold sex are doing themselves 2 disservices. Firstly they are denying themselves sex and the accompanying bonding...and second they are giving their man an excuse to seek physical affection elsewhere (which I consider a foolish thing to do.) Historically and currently I have relationships with men who lots of other women find desirable...and such men can easily seek physical gratification elsewhere to the detriment of the relationship. I can too for that matter. So for all those reasons I do not use sex as a bargaining chip/negotiating tool. I think women who do are shortsighted and shoot themselves in the foot. Maybe these women date or marry men who do not have other options or who are too meek to exercise their options. That is on the man. Those are not men I deal with, but I'm not going to say that isn't a factor in the dynamics between other people.

To be honest there have been occasions when Silence and Distance have been deployed against me in relationship. There are times when I am out of line and withdrawal of attention is the sensisble thing for the man to do. And I have been known to deploy Silence and Distance myself from time to time. Whether I am utilizing it or whether my man is the result is the same. It makes the other person stop and consider the value they assign to the relationship and to the other person. If there is no value then things are simple, and the solution may be to walk away. If however there is value, then I will turn over the issue at hand in my mind and give things quite a bit of thought. If upon reflection I think I am out of line, then I have been known to reach out, extend the olive branch, apologize and invite reconciliation. I don't chase, but I'll state clearly that I am out of line, and that I am contrite and wait to see if my communication starts a conversation (seeking a resolution to whatever the issue happens to be.) If I do not think I am out of line then I am content to wait and see if my man reaches out to me. In my experience for example in my current relationship the party who has been out of line is the one to initiate the conversation which leads to resolution (and resolution may be an agreement to disagree on occasion.) Neither of us is naive and both of us know the game very well. We also appreciate the things we each bring to the table and have to offer one another. In other words we both see the value the other one has and we know that finding someone else who is as good an individual match is no small feat so there is incentive to work through things.

But we communicate rather well and are not afraid to tackle prickly issues head on. I can't think of a time I would consider either he or I as angry in any sort of out of control way. Displeased? You bet. Annoyed? Yes. Disrespected? Yup. But we sit down together and discuss what happened, we both listen to understand, we neither one put up with deflection, blaming or projection (we call each other out on that type of thing immediately)...and we are extremely direct in what we say to one another, even though it may be a hard thing for the other person to hear. The result of that type of communication is self-respect and respect for each other. Just earlier this evening we were chatting and my boyfriend made a comment about how he appreciates the way we communicate and how he likes the way I hold him accountable and expect him to meet my standard. He's not had that before, and while it certainly has not been a cakewalk, he sees the value and the self-respect I have, and therefore he acts with respect toward me (it has increased over time rather than decreased) and greater self-respect.

If he is annoyed about something he will say so without hesitation. I make it a habit to listen closely if he expresses annoyance and I seek to understand WHY he is annoyed. He does the same when I have a bone to pick with him. At times I don't get what the big deal is...and vice versa. But it is still important to listen and understand where the other person is coming from. Then a conversation ensues that facilitates better understanding of each other, whether or not he and I agree. We don't always agree. And that's OK. We are two different people. We aren't going to be in lockstep on everything. Sometimes THAT is the tougher thing to digest. But digest it we must.

I do not see that level of maturity in the scenario put forth by the OP. But I do think Silence and Distance is a useful thing to do for the reasons noted. It works on me and it works on men who I date. It works because it makes the other person consider the value of the other party and the relationship itself. And it is best done from a place of conscious choice and self control. Not as a game playing thing and not as a knee jerk thing.

Silence and distance might work and I hope it does in my case but we have issues that have been ongoing for 12+ months and I know she is at the point where she doesn't want to live her life like this.

An easy way for me to describe it is, it's like a constant cycle and it goes around and around: She withdraws affection, backs off becomes distant, loses attraction, says she doesn't know if she is in love with me and I kick up a storm, call her names, question her feelings, frustrated as to why, etc and it goes around like a cycle. But I want to forget about her behaviour because it was my insecurity and jealousy that started the whole thing a while back and after months of trying and thinking we could get things back to how they should be, it never got there. Even though we both said we are trying. I felt like she didn't try hard enough and told her she should fake it until she makes it. I.e. things were going well but she still wasn't coming near me.

My recent behaviour was wrong, will silence and distance fix that? I don't know, I was thinking of sending flowers. I'm not sure.

 

[Billtx49]

Silence and distance might work and I hope it does in my case but we have issues that have been ongoing for 12+ months and I know she is at the point where she doesn't want to live her life like this.

An easy way for me to describe it is, it's like a constant cycle and it goes around and around: She withdraws affection, backs off becomes distant, loses attraction, says she doesn't know if she is in love with me and I kick up a storm, call her names, question her feelings, frustrated as to why, etc and it goes around like a cycle. But I want to forget about her behaviour because it was my insecurity and jealousy that started the whole thing a while back and after months of trying and thinking we could get things back to how they should be, it never got there. Even though we both said we are trying. I felt like she didn't try hard enough and told her she should fake it until she makes it. I.e. things were going well but she still wasn't coming near me.

My recent behaviour was wrong, will silence and distance fix that? I don't know, I was thinking of sending flowers. I'm not sure.

You just described what sounds like a dead relationship. Think about that.