POLL: In your opinion, who should pay for the date and why?

[RangerMIke]

that's just a fancy/roundabout way of saying that the guy always pays lol. (and girls who think like that will "coincidentally" never invite)

You never get asked out? Besides women I ask out often offer to pay thier way... but if you invite someone out, you are the host and you should expect to pick up the tab. That is all I am saying.

But I think I get what you are saying. A women that is investing in you will value you more. I agree.

 

[devilkingx2]

For a woman to submit, you must be a leader who she feels is suitable to completely submit to. A man fussing about a tab is not leader material. It's a trivial, small-minded mentality. You pick up the tab. In return, you expect and get complete deference.

you remind me of another point I wanted to bring up, another thing is that women won't feel obligated to do anything for you because you bought them dinner or paid for whatever the activity was, you're basically doing charity for them, which is fine, but charity is voluntary, if you don't want to donate to the red cross you don't have to.

I've seen women say that they only pay half when they don't want to sleep with the guy, or that they'd refuse to sleep with a guy who didn't buy them food, but that's phrased in the negative, those girls sounded like manipulative gold diggers or egotistical hookers, you know? I've never actually seen a girl phrase it in a way that's like "if a guy buys me dinner I want to sleep with him more" or "if a guy buys me dinner I'm more likely to agree to a date two"

(note: buying dinner here is a general euphemism for taking someone on a date and paying for it, not literally referring to dinner)

I wouldn't be fussy about the tab though, I'd just frame it as me treating women fairly, like "I didn't want to make it look like I assumed you were poor or anything like that, some people might take offense to you automatically assuming they don't have their own money to pay, you know?"

and it's up to you to decide if it's worth turning off a potentially great girl over saving 20 bucks. There are things that men do that turn women off (although they may even still stick with us even though we do it) and then there are things that women do that turn us off. It's all just a matter of finding what you're comfortable with.

I'd probably say, that the same applies to her, if losing out on a free meal makes her not want to go out with you, what does that say about her priorities? it would be petty of her to make a big deal of it, just like it would be petty of the guy to make a big deal of it.

imo, you're not making a big deal if it if you just say, comment on the place you're going like "woah that place is expensive, careful not to spend your life savings when we go haha." or "I've heard that place is nice and cheap, you won't break your bank no matter what you order." or something casual like that.

but if she outright refuses to go out with you or outright refuses to pay for her own food, that's making a big deal of it lol.

 

[devilkingx2]

You never get asked out? Besides women I ask out often offer to pay thier way... but if you invite someone out, you are the host and you should expect to pick up the tab. That is all I am saying.

But I think I get what you are saying. A women that is investing in you will value you more. I agree.

nah, in my experience getting asked out is a once in a blue moon kinda thing.

when I go out on dates I make sure to bring enough money for both of us, but imo paying for the other person is a last resort unless I went into it knowing they wouldn't have their own money, you know?

I think not paying for the girl on a date shows a lot of DJ traits, you're not like the other guys trying your hardest to impress the girl and accommodate her because the date is just as much about her impressing you as it is about you impressing her, you're your own man who plays by your own (fair) rules and you want a woman who respects that.

besides, the last thing you want is a girl who thinks of her boyfriend as a second bank account or who only wants to go out with you because she's hungry

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

It's possible that people over-think this, but in general I think it should be roughly equal, even on a first date. Buying the first round is fair enough.

Generally women who don't have a problem spending their own money are both invested in the situation and easy-going. It soon becomes obvious who is invested and who is just hanging round for a meal ticket.

 

[DJohn]

If I invite. First two are on me. If the chick doesn't even offer so much as to pretend to offer to pay even the tip or get me a drink I'm done. Tried ignoring my own common sense with one chick and wound up with a chick I dropped after a year of going out with every so often who never offered. Said Thank you. But again never offered. If you get a sense a chick is entitled and doesn't even offer she's done after the second date.

i fully agree

 

[Roober]

I don't mind paying for first date, but she needs to offer. I have dated women from many different backgrounds though, and I believe a lot of this stems from that. After first date, it goes on a date by date basis.

 

[bigneil]

"By refusing to spend even $20 on a movie date, Bob shoots himself in the foot and ruins his chances at success. By being overly paranoid and stingy, he turns women off. But Bob is not alone in this - many men fall into this trap. When you pay for a woman on a date, you are demonstrating your ability to be generative. You are showing her that you are willing to do your part. Most women expect you to pay for them and will think less of you if you don't"

- Louis/Copeland 2000 "How to Succeed with Women"

 

[9Volt]

I don't mind paying for first date, but she needs to offer. I have dated women from many different backgrounds though, and I believe a lot of this stems from that. After first date, it goes on a date by date basis.

That's what I'm saying. I don't mind paying but if a chick never at least offers on the second date to pay not "half" but at least offer to pay the tip or get me a drink then you slowly start setting a precedent where the chick will always expect you to pay just for her company. If a dude is investing in her she can at least offer to show investment back. It's common courtesy. Same with anyone. Even if it's not a date but hanging out with a chick as friends, relatives, etc. most of the time people will offer or get you down the line as reciprocation.

Some dudes think if they don't always pay 100% all the time the chick will "think less of them" basically admitting they're afraid that if they don't continually provide it will cause the chick to eventually drop them. That's a tell on their own insecurities. Trying to "buy" love and acceptance while hiding behind "that's what real men do".

 

[guru1000]

you remind me of another point I wanted to bring up, another thing is that women won't feel obligated to do anything for you because you bought them dinner or paid for whatever the activity was, you're basically doing charity for them, which is fine, but charity is voluntary, if you don't want to donate to the red cross you don't have to.

I've seen women say that they only pay half when they don't want to sleep with the guy, or that they'd refuse to sleep with a guy who didn't buy them food, but that's phrased in the negative, those girls sounded like manipulative gold diggers or egotistical hookers, you know? I've never actually seen a girl phrase it in a way that's like "if a guy buys me dinner I want to sleep with him more" or "if a guy buys me dinner I'm more likely to agree to a date two"

(note: buying dinner here is a general euphemism for taking someone on a date and paying for it, not literally referring to dinner)

I wouldn't be fussy about the tab though, I'd just frame it as me treating women fairly, like "I didn't want to make it look like I assumed you were poor or anything like that, some people might take offense to you automatically assuming they don't have their own money to pay, you know?"

To be fair, we are in different age demographics. Are you 19, banging 17 yos?

Irregardless, the "issue" of who pays is petty, small thinking. There are no principles in pettiness. Does a man with a mental paradigm of millions, care about a $20, $50, $100, $200 bill. I would argue that if the bill becomes an "issue" for you, you are self-deprecating and comporting/situating into a small paradigm and thinker. This goes beyond women and is devaluing.

I've dated wh0res who offered to pay, and great girls who did not. With myriad upbringings and disparate spheres of conditioning, you will not get a good gauge of a woman's character by whether she offers to pay.

 

[devilkingx2]

To be fair, we are in different age demographics. Are you 19, banging 17 yos?

yeah that is an excellent point, in my experience my generation is far more open to the idea of paying their fair share, my mom basically thinks the idea is like, anathema, but every girl i've talked to my age not only thought paying for her own food was normal, but that having the guy pay for them was like, something extra. but who knows maybe I've only talked to the odd ones out or something.

now, you could attribute this to feminism having an increasingly strong foothold on each generation and one of the residual positive effects is that younger women take the equality thing seriously

or you could attribute it to the idea that everyone I date is either going to be a broke high school/college student, or working entry-level for minimum wage, living with their parents, no car, etc. etc. so no girl dating a 19 year old is expecting him to be made of money to be paying for all the dates

or maybe it's both.

Irregardless, the "issue" of who pays is petty, small thinking. There are no principles in pettiness. Does a man with a mental paradigm of millions, care about a $20, $50, $100, $200 bill. I would argue that if the bill becomes an "issue" for you, you are self-deprecating and comporting/situating into a small paradigm and thinker. This goes beyond women and is devaluing.

but one does not become a millionaire by wasting money under the guise of focusing on the "bigger picture" over the small details, you know?

I've dated wh0res who offered to pay, and great girls who did not. With myriad upbringings and disparate spheres of conditioning, you will not get a good gauge of a woman's character by whether she offers to pay.

oh yeah, of course. it's only a small window into what she's like, she could be perfect in every other way except that she likes free rides, who knows.

I wouldn't dump kate upton for wanting me to pick up the check lol, but I wouldn't want to date some average girl with nothing special who is expecting free meals you know?

 

[devilkingx2]

"By refusing to spend even $20 on a movie date, Bob shoots himself in the foot and ruins his chances at success. By being overly paranoid and stingy, he turns women off. But Bob is not alone in this - many men fall into this trap. When you pay for a woman on a date, you are demonstrating your ability to be generative. You are showing her that you are willing to do your part. Most women expect you to pay for them and will think less of you if you don't"

- Louis/Copeland 2000 "How to Succeed with Women"

eh, if she was so close to dropping you that she loses interest over something as minor and reasonable as only wanting to pay your fair share, you probably didn't have much of a chance anyway tbh.

it's like getting stood up because you used the wrong "there" in a sentence while texting her one time

on the other hand, if she likes you a reasonable amount, even if she likes you a little less (which would be contrary to the whole alpha fvcks, beta bucks paradigm), you'll still be good to go

 

[Roober]

That's what I'm saying. I don't mind paying but if a chick never at least offers on the second date to pay not "half" but at least offer to pay the tip or get me a drink then you slowly start setting a precedent where the chick will always expect you to pay just for her company. If a dude is investing in her she can at least offer to show investment back. It's common courtesy. Same with anyone. Even if it's not a date but hanging out with a chick as friends, relatives, etc. most of the time people will offer or get you down the line as reciprocation.

Some dudes think if they don't always pay 100% all the time the chick will "think less of them" basically admitting they're afraid that if they don't continually provide it will cause the chick to eventually drop them. That's a tell on their own insecurities. Trying to "buy" love and acceptance while hiding behind "that's what real men do".

Yup! I want to see some initiative on her part. If she has a decent job and makes good money, she better offer to chip in. I am not giving anyone, especially early on, a free ride. Had a date recently with a hot Peruvian (been here about 8 years) who is a senior accountant at Tesla. I imagine she is in the 110-130k range. She didn't even flinch when the bill came. It was $20, so no biggie. If I take her out again and still see nothing, there won't be a third date... unless the sex is really good!

I may attribute this a little bit to cultural background though as she seems fairly traditional. So, there is a lot of factors in play here. Another problem is that if you set the precedent that you are always paying, it will remain that way. If she understands that it's split up front, then she accepts you for who you are, which is much better.

I absolutely REFUSE to spend significant time with a woman who is flipping a coin with two heads... i.e. wanting equal opportunites as men, but reaping the benefits of social norms favoring women

 

[9Volt]

Some ex-cons rob others of their money then claim they have "mental paradigm of millions" with no problem spending that stolen cash on chicks to show what a "high value" Robin Hood they are. Perhaps they should apply their own thinking in giving that money back to the same people they stole it from. Or give up their bank accounts to someone else so they too can spend it on chicks not caring about the "small things".

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Yup! I want to see some initiative on her part. If she has a decent job and makes good money, she better offer to chip in. I am not giving anyone, especially early on, a free ride. Had a date recently with a hot Peruvian (been here about 8 years) who is a senior accountant at Tesla. I imagine she is in the 110-130k range. She didn't even flinch when the bill came. It was $20, so no biggie. If I take her out again and still see nothing, there won't be a third date... unless the sex is really good!

I may attribute this a little bit to cultural background though as she seems fairly traditional. So, there is a lot of factors in play here. Another problem is that if you set the precedent that you are always paying, it will remain that way. If she understands that it's split up front, then she accepts you for who you are, which is much better.

I absolutely REFUSE to spend significant time with a woman who is flipping a coin with two heads... i.e. wanting equal opportunites as men, but reaping the benefits of social norms favoring women

It's not good to enable that. You spend your money and have chivalry with "her" and she acts like the big c0ck alpha male off of you.

 

[bigneil]

one does not become a millionaire by wasting money under the guise of focusing on the "bigger picture" over the small details, you know?

In Laws of Power Robert Greene reminds us to spend money lavishly, be generous, and pay what things are worth and more wealth will come into our life. That is the power of generosity. I've experienced it first hand. For the past 6 years, I tipped in $5 bills or greater most everyone I have to do any business with (and some who were needy). Does an apple tree worry when someone picks one of its apples? It should get a great sense of pride. Millionaires to be don't get there by saving every $20. That would require 50,000 would-be-dates you messed up. I'll take the 50,000 dates over a million dollars in stingy savings.

 

[bigneil]

eh, if she was so close to dropping you that she loses interest over something as minor and reasonable as only wanting to pay your fair share, you probably didn't have much of a chance anyway tbh.

What?? That's like saying "If you don't get milk for your baby's bottle, and your wife gets mad, she must not have loved you to begin with". No, she's mad because you will not support your offspring.

 

[devilkingx2]

What?? That's like saying "If you don't get milk for your baby's bottle, and your wife gets mad, she must not have loved you to begin with". No, she's mad because you will not support your offspring.

you think refusing to feed your child is comparable to not buying food for a grown woman?

unless you pick up women off the streets or out of homeless shelters, I highly doubt that.

 

[9Volt]

Millionaires spend "lavishly" and don't get there by saving money. They just make it rain 20's and tip everyone. Riiighto. Delusioneil knows nothing of being a millionaire let alone any of them. The VAST majority of them count every damn cent and try to weasel out of actually paying for anything because they want more money IN their pockets and the bare minimum if that going out. Delusioneil trying to justify his paying chicks to "like" him because deep down he's shook that these same strippers he dates that go after men's wallets wouldn't bother with him if he wasn't supporting them.

 

[bigneil]

9Volt aspires to be a slumdog millionaire.

Note that last night, on our 5 month anniversary, my HB9 favorite girl (age 21) told me she has always loved me, and that she never loved any man more than me in her life.

you think refusing to feed your child is comparable to not buying food for a grown woman?

Dating is about mating and mating is about having children and having children is about getting off your butt and going out and extracting the massive amount of resources from the Earth that it takes to support a wife and family like the previous 10,000 generations of your ancestors who are all doing face palms reading the crap you come up with to avoid working harder.

 

[devilkingx2]

Dating is about mating and mating is about having children and having children is about getting off your butt and going out and extracting the massive amount of resources it takes to support a wife and family like the previous 10,000 generations of your ancestors

having kids a wife and a family all sound awful so i'm glad I don't have any of those things.

also mating usually isn't about having children anymore, humans mostly have sex for pleasure

who are all doing face palms reading the crap you come up with to avoid working harder.

what do you call someone who works harder without getting more for his hard work? (aside from "a salaried employee")