Question for Women Members

[bigneil]

Given: A man and a woman who are exactly the same in terms of physical beauty and health. Let's say they are both a 7.

Now, the woman gets her hair dyed, has it done by a professional, wears makeup, gets Botox, has two minor cosmetic procedures and one major (boob job), and has cellulite removed. After all the work is done, she appears to be an 8. Note, they both have the same diet and exercise routine.

So these two then meet in a bar.

Does the woman now feel as though she is out of this guy's league? Or does she secretly think "Wow, that's how I used to look in my natural state, so we are equal"?

Something tells me it is the former, and that this is the basis for which all women secretly feel entitled to "trade up": by faking it.

 

[zekko]

I'm not a woman, so sorry for disrupting your thread, but:

Interesting question, Neil. I confess I don't know the answer to it, but I do think (contrary to a lot of people here) that men are not under as much pressure to look good (and look young) as women are. Because of that, a woman can have most of those procedures done, and people won't bat an eye. And as the two age, the woman may need those procedures more than the guy, just to try to keep up.

I would say that a woman who looks down on another guy like that has personality and attitude issues that are deeper than cosmetic surgery.

I would also say that the PUA community tries to encourage men to "trade up by faking it". Men just use a different array of techniques and weapons than women do.

 

[bigneil]

I think men have been forced to "fake it"/ use PUA tactics simply to regain that same girl who was always just his equal to begin with.

 

[guru1000]

A woman's perceived value is commensurate with the amount of attention she receives, irrespective whether that attention is contrived.

 

[El Payaso]

Men and women are not measured on the same scale...

 

[_sideways_]

Simple....
Females have always been lower.
Its evident in the natural world.
Most male species have the looks, the bright colors, the nice feathers and furs...the more aesthetic bodies.
Its just that "modern" females choose to practice who looks better IN THEIR OWN SOCIAL FEMALE CIRCLE/WORLD.

I couldn't care less if she gets make up or surgery. She ain't doing it for me. My eyes see past her ever decreasing physical beauty.
They know how they look like in the a.m. au naturel.

To answer the question...an HB 7 male, HB 7 female...or hb3 male HB 3 female.

Males have the win.
Her faking her hair color is not for you. Today's society, she's doing it for her own bragging rights in her little slice of the world.
She knows what she is offering a mate. She ain't lying to him. She don't care . youre AFC in her world.
She cares about her image in spite of you.

Unless you married a true woman...then this is irrelevant.

 

[_sideways_]

Plus

This is such a superficial question topic...
Who cares as long as she treats her man the way he wants.
As long as she's faithful, loyal, loving, understanding...

Plus, again,
Its her mind...she doesn't even understand her own mind.

Too many strippers big Neil...I envy that. ..at the same time....date a doctor or teacher or something that doesn't require her looks to make a living.

 

[Bokanovsky]

A woman's perceived value is commensurate with the amount of attention she receives, irrespective whether that attention is contrived.

Exactly right.

 

[BeExcellent]

Ok I'll bite.

Basically if you are internally validated you will modify your body for the right reasons, from a place of wanting to fix a specific thing because it makes you happy independent of anyone else. Your question appears to assume this is not true in your given example.

People who improve themselves to suit themselves (internal validation) are coming from a very different place than people who make changes seeking external validation. This is true of men and women.

At the end of the day the SMV marketplace assigns value irrespective of alterations or no alterations. The answer to your original question is variable based on each individual, and therefore impossible to answer.

I haven't had work done & am fortunate genetically, I don't bother dyeing my hair & I often forego make up. I like how I look and don't want somebody to risk screwing up my appearance, but I know women who have done varying alterations who are satisfied and some who are dissatisfied. It all resides with one's self esteem or lack thereof.

Higher quality people are going to look for other higher quality people irrespective of looks, just like men here see hot women who are not relationship quality women. Looks are just one piece of the puzzle, not the whole enchilada so I find it a rhetorical question with as many answers as there are people.

 

[Sho-No-Luv]

Given: A man and a woman who are exactly the same in terms of physical beauty and health. Let's say they are both a 7.

Now, the woman gets her hair dyed, has it done by a professional, wears makeup, gets Botox, has two minor cosmetic procedures and one major (boob job), and has cellulite removed. After all the work is done, she appears to be an 8. Note, they both have the same diet and exercise routine.

So these two then meet in a bar.

Does the woman now feel as though she is out of this guy's league? Or does she secretly think "Wow, that's how I used to look in my natural state, so we are equal"?

Something tells me it is the former, and that this is the basis for which all women secretly feel entitled to "trade up": by faking it.

Yes, your assessment is correct. She will now feel like she is out of his league. I've known females who when I saw them without makeup on, seemed kinder, nicer, just friendlier in general. Then as soon as they put make up on they were radically different people. And yes, women do operate on a league mentality. If they even think for one second that they are out of your league even if its my 1/1000th of a centimeter you are toast!

Sometimes, though they will string you along until a better option comes along. Ironically that better option is normally just using her for sex, because he IS actually really out of HER league!

Sh!t used to blow my mind, but now I understand it. I always tell guys to try to convience a female to wear as little makeup as possible as early as possible. That way you see what you really got and don't make the mistake of falling in love with her made up self.

Trust me there have been times I've been truly horrified at what I saw, in fact it was one of the few things that totally changed my opinion about women. Iow, I DO NOT trust women who wear a ton of makeup. And women are very superficial and they obsess over looks. Therefore, I typically deduct a point or two off their looks when I notice them hiding behind heavy makeup.

 

[zekko]

I always tell guys to try to convience a female to wear as little makeup as possible as early as possible. That way you see what you really got and don't make the mistake of falling in love with her made up self.

I've never really had this problem since I tend to prefer women with a more natural look anyway. Nothing wrong with makeup, but when a woman is overly made up, or her entire face looks painted, it's pretty noticeable.

Also, unlike a lot of guys here, I happen to find women attractive anyway, makeup or not. And don't post me a link to one of those "celebrities without makeup" sites to prove otherwise. They tend to pick the worst picture they can find. Yeah, some of them are downright ugly, but I don't think that most women look like swamp monsters without makeup.

 

[Sho-No-Luv]

I've never really had this problem since I tend to prefer women with a more natural look anyway. Nothing wrong with makeup, but when a woman is overly made up, or her entire face looks painted, it's pretty noticeable.

Also, unlike a lot of guys here, I happen to find women attractive anyway, makeup or not. And don't post me a link to one of those "celebrities without makeup" sites to prove otherwise. They tend to pick the worst picture they can find. Yeah, some of them are downright ugly, but I don't think that most women look like swamp monsters without makeup.

Alrighty then

 

[bigneil]

First, to clarify, I understand that men and women aren't rated on the same scale, etc.

What I was trying to imply as the Given for the sake of this example was that the two were - by whatever measurement we use - equal to begin with.

Yes, your assessment is correct... I've known females who when I saw them without makeup on, seemed kinder, nicer, just friendlier in general. Then as soon as they put make up on they were radically different people.

Thank you for this answer. You clarified things for me - and I realized the phenomenon I was observing was well covered by favorite TV show - Three's Company in the episode "Janet Wigs Out" (1982). In an ironic subplot, this is Cindy's last scene on the show, who walks off to (Blonde) Janet saying "She can't stay... run along Cindy".

The video below starts at the beginning. It would start at the correct time of 13 minutes, 13 seconds, but the forum software seems to not support it.

This underscores the reality that, once a woman improves her look and gets more responses, she immediately assumes she is too good for people on her real level. This probably means that even the fattest girls secretly think they are too good for everyone, and it's simply their lack of means that makes them settle for anyone.

 

[bigneil]

I've known females who when I saw them without makeup on, seemed kinder, nicer, just friendlier in general. Then as soon as they put make up on they were radically different people.

I've observed this in the reverse scenario. Any time you get a real date with a stripper, the moment they are outside the club, they radically transform back into their normal self, and you realize what an act they put on during their day job (something brought about by their attempt to maximize tips, i.e., something men there force them to do basically). I almost always prefer their real self. Men should be careful what they wish for.