Mass Shooting - Why It Happened

[FairShake]

I just explained the origins of the word and why it's clear that it's a garbage, propaganda phrase with no context. You didn't really counter what I said, so are you willing to concede the point?

Your response didn't impress me. And you started off with an insult. So I responded with the sarcasm it warranted.

But more to the point you are incorrect about the origins of the word Islamophobia. It existed way before CAIR and 9/11. It also doesn't just mean "fear" of Islam but also "an aversion" to Islam. Just because you, BlueAlpha, seem to have an aversion to Islam doesn't mean the term isn't correct. That's a spurious correlation and doesn't make logical sense.

Atheism is only the absence of religion. So it's like being a non-hockey player. That's not a demographic. Atheism makes zero claims about the nature of reality. There happen to be a lot of scientists who are atheists, and science is based on facts and reason. Even "scientist" has no one identity or belief system like Christian or Muslim does.

If some non-Canadian goes around killing hockey players for their love of the game he is a militant anti-hockey player. That's his belief system about hockey. Atheism does make a claim about the nature of reality though. I'll leave it to you to figure out though. You can probably define it in one sentence...

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Your response didn't impress me. And you started off with an insult. So I responded with the sarcasm it warranted.

But more to the point you are incorrect about the origins of the word Islamophobia. It existed way before CAIR and 9/11. It also doesn't just mean "fear" of Islam but also "an aversion" to Islam. Just because you, BlueAlpha, seem to have an aversion to Islam doesn't mean the term isn't correct. That's a spurious correlation and doesn't make logical sense.



If some non-Canadian goes around killing hockey players for their love of the game he is a militant anti-hockey player. That's his belief system about hockey. Atheism does make a claim about the nature of reality though. I'll leave it to you to figure out though. You can probably define it in one sentence...

Your ignorance of Islam not only doesn't impress me but disgusts me because you're an apologist for fascism.

A phobia is an IRRATIONAL fear or aversion. Read the Quran and the Hadiths. All non-Muslims are rational in being petrified of what it says. Therefore it cannot be a phobia.

Atheism in and of itself doesn't many any claims about the nature of reality. Being skeptical or dismissive of other claims is not a claim. You just fundamentally don't understand these words.

 

[speed dawg]

Your response didn't impress me. And you started off with an insult. So I responded with the sarcasm it warranted.

But more to the point you are incorrect about the origins of the word Islamophobia. It existed way before CAIR and 9/11. It also doesn't just mean "fear" of Islam but also "an aversion" to Islam. Just because you, BlueAlpha, seem to have an aversion to Islam doesn't mean the term isn't correct. That's a spurious correlation and doesn't make logical sense.

If some non-Canadian goes around killing hockey players for their love of the game he is a militant anti-hockey player. That's his belief system about hockey. Atheism does make a claim about the nature of reality though. I'll leave it to you to figure out though. You can probably define it in one sentence...

OK, so let's ask the relevant question,and quit squabbling about stupid verbage. Is the fear or aversion to islam warranted?

I think it is. I think it's a savage, false religion. I understand that people grew up with it and have customs/traditions/culture related to it. That's fine, as long as they adhere to our laws, in this country. But you see, to me, this is impossible, because everyone has a worldview, and that worldview shapes the government. Christianity is correct, and islam is not. I would say that's my opinion but I also believe it to be fact, which I consider more than opinion. And islam at its core is evil, so there is always the chance these 'secular' muslims, decide they want to follow their false religion more closely.

There is no room for that in the United States. Christianity jives with the US, because the US was founded on Christian principles.

 

[LiveFreeX]

And now NATO wants to pick a fight with Russia... the West has an addiction to stupid pills. Christ, if they think 50 people in a building is bad wait till they see the kind of sh1t Russia is packing.

 

[bigneil]

I'm sorry, but you are WAY off topic today. The gays are not the story. The radical Gay agenda is a topic for another thread. The fact is 50 people were murdered in cold blood by a MUSLIM for being gay. We've already established you don't want to kill gays, and they don't want to kill you.

You mean by a Muslim who WAS gay. So we see that this theory is full of bunk. Why aren't we trying to get gays off our streets if a gay man did this?

This whole thing is extremely dangeous for many reasons:

1) Kill all Muslims (Conservative extreme). This is obviously bad, but good for the War on Terror. But radical Islam (who vows to kill all homosexuals) cannot be tolerated, or else gays have to go underground. We can't have both.

2) Seize all Guns (Liberal extreme). This is even worse, but good for Global Tyranny.

3) Protect all Gays (LGBT extreme). This will attack the First Amendment and make it a crime to criticize LGBT members, but is good for Global Tyranny. These ass-holes invited Islam to the Gay Parade and gave them all a puppy and now they blame me for the massacre?

4) Blame White Men. The stance of the LGBT community after a non-straight, non-white, non-Christian, non-Conservative with a Sig Sauer MCX rifle murdered 50 gays in the name of ISIS?

"Blame the straight, white, Christian, Conservatives and their AR-15 rifles."!

This is not a joke. The left will never, ever admit that their bad policies failed. See Detroit.

5) It might have been Staged.

Did anyone see any bodies? Anyone with anything besides a leg injury? Any ambulences? There would have been 400 gallons of blood. And here's the worst part - did anyone ever see ONE video from inside the club? One photo of Omar shooting a gun? One security camera?

150 people made it out. That would have been 100 smart phones that made it out. Yes, we see videos of police shooting. But not ONE from inside? Except some weak, fake video of an ugly girl not reacting to gunshots?

Hostages for 3 hours with smart phones didn't even send one touching text?

Wouldn't there be Facebook posts that went viral? We're talking about hundreds of people, many kept hostage for hours.

So the police confiscated their phone? And Wifi?

Did anyone do the math on this? How can one man carry 200 rounds of ammo on a humid night in Orlando in June? That would be 10-14 30 round magazines. One person cannot shoot that many people that fast.

And did you hear the gun grabbers talk? "Handguns wouldn't have a chance because he had high powered, automatic, military grade assault weapons like the AR-15!!" They think the AR-15 is the Cyberdyne Systems T-101.

And did you see the crisis actors?

1) This "witness" makes a machine gun sound. No machine gun was used.
2) This mother "Christine Leinonen" fakes crying, is reading from cue cards, and claims to have got up to check her FB at 3am, but hasn't has an update since last month? And she goes on a "ban assault weapons" shpeal hours after it happened, with him technically missing?
3) "Christoper Leinonen" is called Drew and her "grandson" and is named Andrew?
4) Another witness claimed to "see" an AR-15 when he drove by, from outside?

 

[LiveFreeX]

There's something going on because now we're going to war with russia... for what because Putin hates gays???

 

[bigneil]

Here is the list of victims. Do these look like real people? No photos? No Facebook profiles? Ever have a friend die in the Facebook era? Their site becomes a shrine to them. The average person has 150 friends on FB. 50 people should have 7500 FB friends. Can anyone find ONE profile with ONE friend for ONE person? Hint: Christopher Leinonen has a fake profile started June 14.

Seriously - this list looks like the output of AutoMexiName(50);

Stanley Almodovar III, 23 years old
Amanda Alvear, 25 years old
Oscar A Aracena-Montero, 26 years old
Rodolfo Ayala-Ayala, 33 years old
Antonio Davon Brown, 29 years old
Darryl Roman Burt II, 29 years old
Angel L. Candelario-Padro, 28 years old
Juan Chevez-Martinez, 25 years old
Luis Daniel Conde, 39 years old
Cory James Connell, 21 years old
Tevin Eugene Crosby, 25 years old
Deonka Deidra Drayton, 32 years old
Simon Adrian Carrillo Fernandez, 31 years old
Leroy Valentin Fernandez, 25 years old
Mercedez Marisol Flores, 26 years old
Peter O. Gonzalez-Cruz, 22 years old
Juan Ramon Guerrero, 22 years old
Paul Terrell Henry, 41 years old
Frank Hernandez, 27 years old
Miguel Angel Honorato, 30 years old
Javier Jorge-Reyes, 40 years old
Jason Benjamin Josaphat, 19 years old
Eddie Jamoldroy Justice, 30 years old
Anthony Luis Laureanodisla, 25 years old
Christopher Andrew Leinonen, 32 years old
Alejandro Barrios Martinez, 21 years old
Brenda Lee Marquez McCool, 49 years old
Gilberto Ramon Silva Menendez, 25 years old
Kimberly Morris, 37 years old
Akyra Monet Murray, 18 years old
Luis Omar Ocasio-Capo, 20 years old
Geraldo A. Ortiz-Jimenez, 25 years old
Eric Ivan Ortiz-Rivera, 36 years old
Joel Rayon Paniagua, 32 years old
Jean Carlos Mendez Perez, 35 years old
Enrique L. Rios, Jr., 25 years old
Jean C. Nives Rodriguez, 27 years old
Xavier Emmanuel Serrano Rosado, 35 years old
Christopher Joseph Sanfeliz, 24 years old
Yilmary Rodriguez Solivan, 24 years old
Edward Sotomayor Jr., 34 years old
Shane Evan Tomlinson, 33 years old
Martin Benitez Torres, 33 years old
Jonathan Antonio Camuy Vega, 24 years old
Juan P. Rivera Velazquez, 37 years old
Luis S. Vielma, 22 years old
Franky Jimmy Dejesus Velazquez, 50 years old
Luis Daniel Wilson-Leon, 37 years old
Jerald Arthur Wright, 31 years old

 

[PeasantPlayer]

Religion is the worst thing to happen to humanity

 

[Bible_Belt]

Can anyone find ONE profile with ONE friend for ONE person?

Franky Jimmy Dejesus Velazquez, 50 years old

His facebook page is here: https://www.facebook.com/jimmy.d.jesus.7

 

[Skyline]

^^^ This.

Where in the hell was the security??

Private security firms do not arm their officers unless it's very high like Seceret Service. All private security does is alert the police when something like this happens.

The only type of security that carries firearms are banks that go around collecting money from businesses.

 

[LiveFreeX]

Thats quite interesting Bible_Belt.

 

[FairShake]

Your ignorance of Islam not only doesn't impress me but disgusts me because you're an apologist for fascism.

A phobia is an IRRATIONAL fear or aversion. Read the Quran and the Hadiths. All non-Muslims are rational in being petrified of what it says. Therefore it cannot be a phobia.

I'm very aware of what Islam is and isn't. I grew up in Philadelphia where most of my neighbors were Muslim at some point in their lives. Many of my best friends still are. So my view of Islam is personal and filtered through hundreds of different lenses. Along with being a guest at their mosques, talking to their Imams, and yes, reading (some) of the Quran. Not cherry picked quotes on religionofpeace.com. Which is not "reading the Quran" by the way although people seem to think it is the same thing.

Certainly shooting Muslims (or Sikhs who supposedly look like Muslims) is an IRRATIONAL reaction and can only come from an IRRATIONAL aversion to Islam. And that's what we were talking about originally.

And fairshake disappears now that the phobia argument has been dismantled.

I have two jobs, an elderly mother to take care of, my daughter's softball team to coach, a dog to walk, and women to chase. Responding on this forum is very low down on the priority list to me.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

I'm very aware of what Islam is and isn't. I grew up in Philadelphia where most of my neighbors were Muslim at some point in their lives. Many of my best friends still are. So my view of Islam is personal and filtered through hundreds of different lenses. Along with being a guest at their mosques, talking to their Imams, and yes, reading (some) of the Quran. Not cherry picked quotes on religionofpeace.com. Which is not "reading the Quran" by the way although people seem to think it is the same thing.

Nice try, but I don't get my information from religionofpeace.com. I got it from the Quran itself which I read when one of my roommates from Pakistan tried to convert me 2 months after meeting me. And I counted 132 times that call for the death of the infidel. That's not cherrypicking.

Your neighbors who were friendly to you were bad Muslims. The worse the Muslim, the nicer the neighbor. The book says what it says. It's quite a conundrum, because I also find Arabic people to be some of the friendliest on earth. So I do hear you on that, but you're still confused about Islam.

Certainly shooting Muslims (or Sikhs who supposedly look like Muslims) is an IRRATIONAL reaction and can only come from an IRRATIONAL aversion to Islam. And that's what we were talking about originally.

No, it's just ordinary xenophobia. It was a lone bigot shooting random brown people that looked brown enough for him. Once again, it is literally impossible to have an IRRATIONAL aversion to the tenants of Islam which seek to enslave, convert, or kill you. And that is the brilliance of this deviant word, it's thrown out in these situations to scare people, so that individuals like yourself will virtue signal your non-bigotry. Before you know it, we're "respecting Islamic blasphemy laws" in a secular society.

And if you want to talk cherry-picking, you cherry picked the one single high profile hate crime attempted against Muslims since 9/11. Nice work. These events are so rare we know the killers' names. Can you tell me the names of all 19 hijackers?

Compare that one attack with over a dozen high profile Muslim attacks on American soil since 9/11, from a demographic that represents 0.8% of the population. They're a unique threat. Period.

 

[FairShake]

Your neighbors who were friendly to you were bad Muslims. The worse the Muslim, the nicer the neighbor. The book says what it says. It's quite a conundrum, because I also find Arabic people to be some of the friendliest on earth. So I do hear you on that, but you're still confused about Islam.

Sorry, doubt you read the Quran. I don't buy it. Your "132" quote screams of Googling to me.

Anyway I'm no Christian or Muslim but recognize the weaknesses and strengths of both. As I know many Muslims I tend to evaluate them with a more open mind than most. And I judge Muslims and Christians differently than I judge Islam and Christianity. A person's religion is more than just their belief system. It's their community, their strength, their culture, and their family. Many Muslims and Christians are as such because of those factors and not literal living copies of their religion's text.

No, it's just ordinary xenophobia

Based on the perceived Islamic faith. Making it Islamophobic. Thank you for making my argument for me.

And if you want to talk cherry-picking, you cherry picked the one single high profile hate crime attempted against Muslims since 9/11. Nice work. These events are so rare we know the killers' names. Can you tell me the names of all 19 hijackers?

Compare that one attack with over a dozen high profile Muslim attacks on American soil since 9/11, from a demographic that represents 0.8% of the population. They're a unique threat. Period.

Dude...hundreds of thousands of Muslim civilians have died in wars in Afghanistan and Iraq due to American weapons. Crimes and hateful ones at that. It's not even close...I know soldiers too. Many (definitely not all) tend to be pretty Xenophobic with Islamic intent as well.

 

[FairShake]

Also, you do know Arabs and Muslims are not synonymous right? I assume you do it's just you seemed to refer to them without distinction in your post.

The Arabs you know and love could be Christian, Jewish, or even atheist.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Sorry, doubt you read the Quran. I don't buy it. Your "132" quote screams of Googling to me.

The truth is I don't care what you buy. You're free to read the Quran yourself and verify it. You don't have to like the numbers, but they don't become less factual because of what your diversity trainers told you about the "religion of peace." If it's 87 times instead of 132, is it any less disgusting?

Anyway I'm no Christian or Muslim but recognize the weaknesses and strengths of both. As I know many Muslims I tend to evaluate them with a more open mind than most. And I judge Muslims and Christians differently than I judge Islam and Christianity. A person's religion is more than just their belief system. It's their community, their strength, their culture, and their family.

Outrageous false equivalency that should offend every Christian (again, coming from an atheist.) The "strengths and weaknesses" are nowhere close."

The Westboro Baptist Church are radical Christians. They hold up vile signs and annoy people at funerals.

Islamic State are radical Muslims, and they burn, behead, and bury people alive.

Find me Christians doing the same thing in the name of their religion. And don't talk to me about lone nuts like Anders Brevik - I'm talking an army that can mobilize 50,000 people. If you can't, shame on you for making this outlandish comparison.

Many Muslims and Christians are as such because of those factors and not literal living copies of their religion's text.

Tell it to the victims of the 28,000 Muslim terror attacks since 9/11. There, another statistic you won't like. Yes, many of them take it very, VERY literal.

Based on the perceived Islamic faith. Making it Islamophobic. Thank you for making my argument for me.

I did no such thing. Are you actually denying the calls in the Quran for the defeat, conversion or servitude of the infidel? The killing of every Jew in the world? The taking of sex slaves? The how-to guide to whip your wife? How can somebody be bigoted against ideas, which are not sentient subjects? How is it IRRATIONAL to have an aversion to these ideas?

You are sounding incredibly dense and if anybody is copying and pasting it's you from the CAIR and Reza Aslan school of double-talk.

Dude...hundreds of thousands of Muslim civilians have died in wars in Afghanistan and Iraq due to American weapons. Crimes and hateful ones at that. It's not even close...I know soldiers too. Many (definitely not all) tend to be pretty Xenophobic with Islamic intent as well.

What is the relevance of these weapons as to whether or not Islamophobia exists? I was against the war in Iraq. But the USA didn't do it in the name of Christianity. They did it in the name of greed and imperialism, which we can talk about, but it's probably a topic for another thread.

Also, you do know Arabs and Muslims are not synonymous right? I assume you do it's just you seemed to refer to them without distinction in your post.

The Arabs you know and love could be Christian, Jewish, or even atheist.

Thank YOU for proving MY point to me. This demonstrates there is no such thing as Islamophobia, because no one in this thread has any problem with Arabic Christians or atheists. It is not based on ethnicity or race, therefore it is not bigotry, therefore calling it a phobia is absurd.

The point I was getting at before is that many of the Muslim Arabs I lived among in Brooklyn were warm, open and neighborly. But the insanely disproportionate amount of terrorism coming from their communities leads me to the conclusion that they were great people in spite of their religion, not because of it.

I'll leave you with one more gem - if it is not religion, why aren't the Palestinian Christians partaking in stabbings or suicide bombings against the Jewish "occupiers"?

 

[bigneil]

Can anyone find ONE profile with ONE friend for ONE person?

Franky Jimmy Dejesus Velazquez, 50 years old

His facebook page is here: https://www.facebook.com/jimmy.d.jesus.7

Thanks, but you had to go all the way to #47 on the list to find one?

Is this a real page? It's a "Remembering Jimmy" page! This is how they all are! My friends who died didn't have their page change to "remembering". Who changed it?

And how about one American person with a real Facebook page?

How do we know it wasn't 5 people who died, and one big lie to take our guns, take our free speech, and keep up the War on Terror?

Any time you have an event where the media immediately pushes for new laws, we need to see absolute proof of what happened. We never do. They always kill the patsy. There is never a trial, never a security video. Ever see a video of Adam Lanza or the Boston Bombers? Shouldn't Sandy Hook have had ONE security camera? Ever see a video of a plane hitting the Pentagon?

Anyhow, I still have yet to see one photo or video from inside the club. There is no way 100 people can be shot over 3 hours and not have some videos.

 

[bigneil]

On one hand, we have endless wars that are murdering Muslims en masse and displacing them. The warfare state.

On the other hand we have SJW's who want to give them all a hug and a puppy and pay all their bills, and fly them all here. The welfare state.

In the middle we have MORONS who want to disarm Americans. This is how you destroy the most powerful nation (kept that way by 378 Million Civilian Firearms). There are 75 Million Jihadists. Think it's a coincidence that the West is still more powerful? The NWO wants to disarm 25 Million Americans and bring in radical Islam and have us destroy each other.

The answer is a well-trained, well-armed civilian populace. And to those who don't like it? Bring it on. You'll be cowering on the bathroom floor texting mommy the minute push comes to shove.

 

[Von]

I am surprised no one here talks about the neo-nazi who murdered that British Labour Minister

 

[LiveFreeX]

white on white violence, nobody cares about. Same with black on black...