When you start to look aged

[Stagger Lee]

If you're picking up women it's primarily because they visually see your face as attractive on first sight. If they don't see your face as attractive enough, then you're not going to pick up women. You're not going to be able talk, will or think your way around it. Attraction for women is mostly visual too and they are more picky about attractiveness than we are.

This is what years of observation has been showing me. And with aging it's just being reinforced.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

If you're picking up women it's primarily because they visually see your face as attractive on first sight. If they don't see your face as attractive enough, then you're not going to pick up women. You're not going to be able talk, will or think your way around it. Attraction for women is mostly visual too and they are more picky about attractiveness than we are.

This is what years of observation has been showing me. And with aging it's just being reinforced.

It's a lot of folks without perfect faces who are great dressers or personality and they have no problem scooping females...

So after you open your mouth it's your personality or soul whatever they are needing. So don't think because your face not great they can't be way into you. For some of em, the more you talk and the more you come around the more into you they get!

 

[Tictac]

Then put on muscle

Face is all he's got.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Face is all he's got.

It's all any man has. But unlike you I still have some youth left. And I have my height and athletic build whatever that's worth. A man with muscles and unattractive face, still has an unattractive face. Unlike men, women don't usually go for a butterface. They'd rather have some young faggy pretty boy.

 

[Tictac]

What the ****

You get it now.

Leave this lunatic alone.

 

[Stagger Lee]

You get on here just to throw insults. Who's the lunatic? Men 60's years old and still haven't figured out or can't admit that women when you approach them look you over and either feel attraction or not within seconds.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

It's all any man has. But unlike you I still have some youth left. And I have my height and athletic build whatever that's worth. A man with muscles and unattractive face, still has an unattractive face. Unlike men, women don't usually go for a butterface. They'd rather have some young faggy pretty boy.

Not necessarily true. If he is built and can do something she will overlook a face and call his ugly face "character"...

 

[Charmaine]

In my experience, there are very few men I have come across that are attractive enough for me to feel being struck by lightening at first sight.

Attraction to me, is a combination of appearance, vibe, attitude, intellect, internal attributes, everything roll into one. A man who is shallow and superficial is not attractive to me at all regardless of how handsome and how great a body they have.

 

[BeExcellent]

When you start to look aged embrace your experience in life; it is the more valuable asset.

Stagger I think lots of male responses have tried to explain it to you as well as Charmaine, but for whatever reason you are not really listening. You don't seem to like the message but it is no less the truth.

Attraction for a woman is NOT the same as for a man.

For women with lots of choices "gorgeous" really can't hold interest if the rest of the package is hollow or shallow. You'll either get shallow women (who may bore you, be terribly unstable and/or have dreadful drama) or you'll get used and dropped because ugliness on the inside (shallow, insecure, no substance etc.) will kill the attraction that the exterior initially created. Getting dropped without understanding why will create additional insecurity so it creates an awful cycle. The remedy for this is nothing to do with looks! It's all mental.

My ex-husband was good looking but had much more going on than just looks.

You want a girl who thinks YOU are attractive just the way you are today (to date, to fool around with, whatever). My ex-husband remains a good friend of mine and he has attractive very young ladies 20-25 who he appeals to. He's 49. It's not because he looks like Adonis. It's because he has a worldliness about him, a sexiness, he knows how to handle himself with women; kind of like the guy in the Dos Equis commercials.

How you attract people includes your looks, but that is a fraction of it. Do you think because you have a handsome face that girls should fall all over you and you are worried that your appeal is slipping because your face has a line or two? Your appeal may actually increase so long as you are a man behind the face worth paying attention to.

Your fixation on aging and comes off as insecure. Insecurity is without exception a colossal turn-off. Maybe you are accidently putting insecure vibes out there. That will kill attraction, your body language will give you away every time if she is the sort of girl you really want to chat up.

For me attraction is about experience and leadership. The physical part of attraction does mean that I have to find the guy physically appealing (my ideal combo is a handsome, sexy, confident, and easy going leader) but that varies from man to man insofar as face & body. I want someone who is a leader I can submit/defer to because I have confidence in his ability.

That means I focus on who he is above what he looks like (although looks is a piece of it.)

To me a boyish face screams inexperience, which I am not interested in and do not have time to waste on. As Zekko said, not a puppy. Puppies have to be housebroken. No thanks.

How is a puppy going to lead a successful, accomplished woman when she has lots of options? He can't. So I for one have zero interest in that, no matter how handsome the guy is. This is why the girls you REALLY want often are actually with the older guys. The quality men understand their currency, and the quality women understand their currency (although that generally goes unstated.)

It really has less to do with your face and more to do with the man who occupies the body, not the other way 'round. You face is not the issue. Your attitude is.

 

[Stagger Lee]

My ex-husband was good looking but had much more going on than just looks.

You want a girl who thinks YOU are attractive just the way you are today (to date, to fool around with, whatever). My ex-husband remains a good friend of mine and he has attractive very young ladies 20-25 who he appeals to. He's 49. It's not because he looks like Adonis. It's because he has a worldliness about him, a sexiness, he knows how to handle himself with women; kind of like the guy in the Dos Equis commercials.

But it is absolutely because he is good looking and looks like an Adonis. Without the physical attractiveness nothing will progress for a man with a woman. Woman perceive everything personality/game wise subjectively positively or negatively based on visual attractiveness. Only attractive guys are perceived by women as humorous, worldly, sexy. At best a female might like your personality/game but that just makes you a likable friend not an attractive/sexual prospect. I've observed this female behavior thousands of times. Your biases won't allow you to admit that women are primarily attracted visually and rationalize the rest of it.

You should try being considered sexy, worldly, humorous etc to a women who turns cold fish b!tch seconds after meeting and looking your face over and deeming it not attractive enough.

Just because you women think you're entitled to a man that has it all good looks, personality, power and wealth doesn't change the fact that you still want good looks and it takes primacy. Personality is entirely subjectively perceived by women and dependent on looks and appearance. Casting blame on my personality/character doesn't make you or anyone right or less 'shallow', it. just shows your bias and how common the fundamental attribution error is.

 

[ChrisFloyd]

When you start to look aged embrace your experience in life; it is the more valuable asset.

Stagger I think lots of male responses have tried to explain it to you as well as Charmaine, but for whatever reason you are not really listening. You don't seem to like the message but it is no less the truth.

Attraction for a woman is NOT the same as for a man.

For women with lots of choices "gorgeous" really can't hold interest if the rest of the package is hollow or shallow. You'll either get shallow women (who may bore you, be terribly unstable and/or have dreadful drama) or you'll get used and dropped because ugliness on the inside (shallow, insecure, no substance etc.) will kill the attraction that the exterior initially created. Getting dropped without understanding why will create additional insecurity so it creates an awful cycle. The remedy for this is nothing to do with looks! It's all mental.

My ex-husband was good looking but had much more going on than just looks.

You want a girl who thinks YOU are attractive just the way you are today (to date, to fool around with, whatever). My ex-husband remains a good friend of mine and he has attractive very young ladies 20-25 who he appeals to. He's 49. It's not because he looks like Adonis. It's because he has a worldliness about him, a sexiness, he knows how to handle himself with women; kind of like the guy in the Dos Equis commercials.

How you attract people includes your looks, but that is a fraction of it. Do you think because you have a handsome face that girls should fall all over you and you are worried that your appeal is slipping because your face has a line or two? Your appeal may actually increase so long as you are a man behind the face worth paying attention to.

Your fixation on aging and comes off as insecure. Insecurity is without exception a colossal turn-off. Maybe you are accidently putting insecure vibes out there. That will kill attraction, your body language will give you away every time if she is the sort of girl you really want to chat up.

For me attraction is about experience and leadership. The physical part of attraction does mean that I have to find the guy physically appealing (my ideal combo is a handsome, sexy, confident, and easy going leader) but that varies from man to man insofar as face & body. I want someone who is a leader I can submit/defer to because I have confidence in his ability.

That means I focus on who he is above what he looks like (although looks is a piece of it.)

To me a boyish face screams inexperience, which I am not interested in and do not have time to waste on. As Zekko said, not a puppy. Puppies have to be housebroken. No thanks.

How is a puppy going to lead a successful, accomplished woman when she has lots of options? He can't. So I for one have zero interest in that, no matter how handsome the guy is. This is why the girls you REALLY want often are actually with the older guys. The quality men understand their currency, and the quality women understand their currency (although that generally goes unstated.)

It really has less to do with your face and more to do with the man who occupies the body, not the other way 'round. You face is not the issue. Your attitude is.

So how did he become your ex?

#StaggerLee What's your future plan? Plastic surgery maybe?

 

[BeExcellent]

Stagger my whole point is that I HAD men who were significantly better looking (in society's eyes) than the man I married but the man I married was a better total package for me for lots of reasons not germane to the discussion.

My ex-husband was NOT an Adonis then (although he appealed to me physically and he was and is a sexy guy) nor is he an Adonis now...unless you think a mostly bald 5'11" man with salt & pepper buzz cut hair who at 49 has lost most of his range of motion in his shoulders from old football injuries qualifies as an Adonis. He does dress well and wears good shoes, but you can also do that! Ike Behar shirt, good jeans and Alan Edmonds wing tip shoes. Good cufflinks. Swagger/Confidence. Done. I broke up with a professional model to date him. The model was always swarmed by girls (which didn't phase me - I'm gorgeous)...and I dumped the model for my ex.

He draws the young gals now because he is exceptionally smooth with women. He is far more charming, sexy and appealing than guys half his age WHO ARE BETTER LOOKING. Its a riot to watch. He owned a very upscale successful nightclub when we married, and he can charm people effortlessly. He loves women and loves people. He is often not the best looking guy in the room, but he is often the most magnetic and that is all that matters. He gets results in spite of a looks and age disadvantage which he is immensely amused by.

He also isn't interested in a "relationship" so he doesn't care what anyone thinks.

When/if you can't compete on looks you compete through game. That is what all the men are telling you. That's what I'm also telling you.

If you can't figure it out in spite of what all these men are telling you plus a couple of women, then you'll just have to fumble along until you do figure it out. But the whining and moaning about looks is not helping you at all.

 

[Stagger Lee]

The fact that women and the mainstream agree that it's all dependent on 'personality/game' and a man's looks and age don't matter just reinforces it's bush league.

You are just not reading and understanding what I'm saying. I'm attracting way less females now then I did when I was some years younger. Do you think my personality changed, or was it my looks changed to aging? I've already said a guy doesn't have to be the best looking guy but he has to meet and exceed women's attractiveness threshold (which is pretty damn high) before anything else he does matters . I've already said that an aging guy who always had an attractive face and aged well can sometimes pull it off.

I don't know anything about your ex, other than you made it clear enough that he's good looking and owned a night club so had status. Then you reinforce my looks argument that a male model ex was swarmed by girls. I can't trust any claims you or anyone else makes when they are self serving. I have no reason besides the interest of truth to say looks and aging matter and women don't find my face attractive enough anymore. I've known women to believe their BF/husband/ex was desired by all the women and could attract and pick up lots of women when I knew they could not. I don't put much credence into what women say their man can do in attracting women or what women say causes attraction.

I don't deny that personality/game matters but only if you are considered physically attractive enough from first sight. I've approached a few thousand women and they invariably look you in the face for a second and it's pretty much determined from there. It doesn't take much personality or game to pick up a woman because to do so she has to be attracted to begin with. And as far as personality/game does matter it's not in the way most people think of it. It's still mostly about visual cues, appearance, body language and non verbals. It's something just like looks that you are mostly born with or develop subconsciously very early on. It's not something easy to change or all that under conscious control. It's not easy at all to change your whole persona and vibe to a more attractive one. You women think everything is easy for men.

if you're going to argue with me in this thread, you're wasting time. My ideas come from years of observations, trial and error and reasoning. You're not going to change my mind with dubious and self serving claims. I know there are other guys as they went through their 30's and 40's have experienced problems with attracting and picking up women they may have not had before. If their ego would allow them to admit it, we could have a discussion about what if anything helped.

 

[BeExcellent]

No need for plastic surgery. Just fortunate that way.

I figured you would ask about my situation; fair enough. After a time my ex's business partner (a boyhood friend since age 10) in the nightclub royally messed him over financially. A long story. My dad is an ***hole lawyer and had to salvage the matter but it was devastating to my ex. Meanwhile my own business ventures were taking off and required a very heavy travel schedule.

So he was demoralized while I was succeeding, which was very hard on the marriage dynamic over time. The issues we had stemmed from business missteps followed by an abdication of the leadership role in our family. We had 3 little kids, a mortgage, etc. Failure on my part was not an option so I shouldered the load financially & became the breadwinner; but it was tough at home because as years went by I resented the situation and so did he, I was missing motherhood as a result of the situation. Along the way we split, negotiating everything between ourselves without a nasty fight. Having withdrawn the expectations of the marriage contract we get along beautifully and the kids benefit from the improved relationship. He is working now and I cover the costs of a nanny as needed when I have to be gone.

Despite everything we bonded through the adversity and remain close friends. He would love to have me back but I am not prepared for that at this time.

There are several quality men vying for my time at present. Accomplished men I see as worth consideration and on my level. Men I am enjoying getting to know and discussing ideas and aspirations with. However I am happy with me and in no hurry to date for sake of dating but it is nice to see my value (which the marriage beat up a bit over time) resoundingly confirmed. Still hot, still smart, still desirable. Cool deal.

All I know is that a man's looks really are not as important as you think they are. Looks are transient. I've never been ugly so yes I accept I may have bias where that is concerned. I can choose from attractive men, but again if that's all they have to offer I am OUT because I offer much more than just looks. I care who they are more than what they look like. I expect them to care who I am too although I appreciate that men are extremely visual beings. Fact remains that none of us will look 25 when we are 80. There are more important things in life.

 

[Stagger Lee]

No need for plastic surgery. Just fortunate that way.



So he was demoralized while I was succeeding, which was very hard on the marriage dynamic over time. The issues we had stemmed from business missteps followed by an abdication of the leadership role in our family. We had 3 little kids, a mortgage, etc. Failure on my part was not an option so I shouldered the load financially & became the breadwinner; but it was tough at home because as years went by I resented the situation and so did he, He would love to have me back but I am not prepared for that at this time.

So when his money was gone so were you. And he wants you back. He doesn't sound all that winning and you don't sound like much of wife.

There are several quality men vying for my time at present. Accomplished men I see as worth consideration and on my level. Men I am enjoying getting to know and discussing ideas and aspirations with. However I am happy with me and in no hurry to date for sake of dating but it is nice to see my value (which the marriage beat up a bit over time) resoundingly confirmed. Still hot, still smart, still desirable. Cool deal.

All I know is that a man's looks really are not as important as you think they are. Looks are transient. I've never been ugly so yes I accept I may have bias where that is concerned. I can choose from attractive men, but again if that's all they have to offer I am OUT because I offer much more than just looks. I care who they are more than what they look like. I expect them to care who I am too although I appreciate that men are extremely visual beings. Fact remains that none of us will look 25 when we are 80. There are more important things in life.

I don't know how old you are and can't say you're even attractive but you have all these attractive men pursuing you. But they have to be wealthy too! What do you have to offer? You will bail if their wealth or looks falter. I don't mean to attack you, but you are oblivious to just how entitled and hypergamous you are. Then you try to tell me that women aren't unreasonable and difficult at all.

 

[BeExcellent]

You absolutely mean to attack me. That's perfectly fine. I hope it makes you feel better. You might stop skimming in your vigor to attack however and actually read.

Fact is I supported my husband for 15 years after he lost his business and was saddled with enormous costs and he had no income. I already out earned him when we married. My Dad actually expressed concern about that beforehand, which I ignored.

At any rate after the business fiasco I paid his business debts out of my own business earnings while he stayed home with the kids and had no earnings. In that time I made six figures every year and built up substantial net worth. I gave him money which I earned in order for him to start another business as well, which also failed. I became a millionaire in that time with my own endeavors despite all his issues and costs and independent of his affairs so yes, you bet your last dollar I expect success from a man I'm interested in. Its what I have accomplished and expect of myself so yes indeed, only the similarly successful need apply. No hypergamy necessary. I've got my affairs already neatly covered thank you!

Of course the ex wants me back. Life is pretty nice in my world. But how is someone who has accomplished less than me going to lead me in a relationship? They can't. I am very successful and expect the same in an equal partner. You aren't attacking me so much as you are assuming things in error. I get it that I am unusual. I thrive when underestimated. Story of my life, it's very motivating actually.

I STILL support my ex, my kids, and etc. He fell down as a man after we were married. It happens. I supported, encouraged, goaded, helped, and went out and busted my *** to handle things for the family from a financial standpoint while he procrastinated and felt like he failed. I had to go earn a living and support everything so I had no time to worry or freak out. I stayed FAR beyond what most people would have done in my shoes. If I'm the breadwinner that means I am supporting the family. And I cared for him deeply and still do. It is easy to take pot shots at someone else to try and make yourself feel better. I'm 46 as I mentioned above. I will retire before 50 to be a mom and do as I please while earning passive income from my businesses. I will make my goal of being a mom full time before the kids get off to college. And I did it without any help and while carrying his load as well as my own. So you don't bother me. I am unflappable having emerged successful from that situation.

Back to your thread here now that we have got all my details clarified:

I'm not suggesting anything different than what other men who responded to your original question have said. The fact I'm female doesn't change the content. I also noted that about the model guy, I dropped him for someone less handsome. Someone with more substance. Women define attraction differently than men do as a general rule and it isn't always instantaneous. That is the truth and all anyone is trying to say to you.

My sister married someone I consider ugly if you were to just show me picture without me knowing him. But he is a wonderful man and so this colors how I perceive him physically. They were friends and their attraction grew as she got to know him as a man through his integrity and his character. She didn't meet him in a bar either and it wasn't some 30 second exchange. They are happy some 20 years. I could give you example after example and so could the men on here.

So what if you approach thousands of women. Do you need thousands? No. If you have approached thousands of women you should simply think to yourself "Next" and not worry about one girl's low interest. Or 800. Who cares? There will be others. are you counting with a clicker and fretting? Why? Maybe its a string of duds. It happens.

I think the key to your perceived slippage arises from your own issues. You'd rather not consider that. You are measuring yourself through an external lens (or several thousand female lenses). Otherwise you would not have stated what you wrote above. Why are you giving away all your personal power to a bunch of random women and then complaining about it? Who cares what they think even assuming your assumptions are correct, which they are not. Too much evidence to the contrary. Seriously man! Can't you recognize that? It's pretty obvious to anyone else who reads this.

I struggled with self image as a teen. I got over it/through it. I know what it is like to feel ugly (even if you really aren't one can still feel that way) although now I am unshakably confident...and I have a daughter who has a physical disability who struggles with that issue as well because her condition affects her appearance, her face, and she will need strong self esteem to deal with various situations in her life when people are insensitive or worse. So yes I know. And compared to someone with a real issue your issue seems in comparison silly and shallow. Period.

Don't worry. I realize you are not going to see the folly in all this. Perhaps some other man will and some women will benefit from him digesting the discussion as it appears and developing his inner appeal for the women he meets. That's the higher goal I can see for now since you seem willing to suspend your responsibility for your appeal or lack thereof. You have few choices other than getting older (and that choice is unappealing) so why not read over what people have said in your thread for nearly a month.

If you are going though h*ll, keep going - Churchill

Best to you always, Cheers and Happy Holidays, LOL

 

[zekko]

I'm attracting way less females now then I did when I was some years younger. Do you think my personality changed, or was it my looks changed to aging?

I don't deny that this has been your reality, but many of us have experienced the opposite effect as we have grown older. Some of us have grown value as we've gotten older, which helps. If you don't progress, women may overlook you as not being successful - if you're in the same place status wise at 40 as you were at 24, say. Or maybe if you haven't stayed in shape and let yourself go. Or maybe if you were a complete superstud when you were younger and had no place to go but down. Those are all possible cases where aging might result in less success with women.

As I said, many of us have experienced increased attraction from women as we've aged. Maybe we've grown confidence, we're more fit, we're more smooth, are in positions of authority, maybe we just have a bigger wallet. If you are experiencing less attraction, you would be in the best position to theorize as to why.

 

[hithard]

If you're picking up women it's primarily because they visually see your face as attractive on first sight. If they don't see your face as attractive enough, then you're not going to pick up women. You're not going to be able talk, will or think your way around it. Attraction for women is mostly visual too and they are more picky about attractiveness than we are.

This is terribly wrong and partly true.

If you're picking up women it's primarily because they visually see your face as attractive on first sight. If they don't see your face as attractive enough, then you're not going to pick up women. You're not going to be able talk, will or think your way around it.

This is just flat out wrong. Having a silver tongue and confident projection turns their prior judgement. Hitting her emotional senses and leading the way she feels through a range of states is what brings attraction. I simply find it hard to believe you have been hitting on "hundreds", let alone "thousands" of women using only your face. There is no way you could hit on that many without learning how to play. Surly you would have known to adjust your game over time?

Attraction for women is mostly visual too and they are more picky about attractiveness than we are.

This is partly true. Women are visual. So you should be covering the basics:
Dress well and age appropriate.
Smell good.
If you need to: use a focus piece.
Keep your body in shape (for me this is debatable).

But..... A woman will only be visual if you have nothing else to back up with. You have a narrow window in which to use emotional hooks to pull her interest in.
If I was in your position now, I would drop whatever strategy you are using and try something else. Test on the next few hookups then keep readjusting till you find what works. It shouldn't be rocket science at the numbers you are claiming.

 

[Tenacity]

This is a great debate, do you guys mind if I join in ?

If you're picking up women it's primarily because they visually see your face as attractive on first sight. If they don't see your face as attractive enough, then you're not going to pick up women. You're not going to be able talk, will or think your way around it. Attraction for women is mostly visual too and they are more picky about attractiveness than we are.

This is what years of observation has been showing me. And with aging it's just being reinforced.

This here I agree with my boy Stagger Lee 100%. It's Looks, Personality and Finances, you want to be efficient in ALL of them (at least a 7 out of 10 give or take) but Looks comes first unless you have some sort of ENORMOUS advantage such as being an A or B list celebrity, or you have significant amounts of money, or you have some type of over the top personality.

None of these are things that can be taught by a seduction guru or PUA, which I think most are scumbags anyway and prey on men with low confidence as well as other insecurities to sell their bullshyt material.

This is partly true. Women are visual. So you should be covering the basics:
Dress well and age appropriate.
Smell good.
If you need to: use a focus piece.
Keep your body in shape (for me this is debatable).

But..... A woman will only be visual if you have nothing else to back up with.

If you are UGLY it doesn't matter what you say or how funny you think you are, you aren't getting anywhere. If she looks at you and says, "He's cute," now the Personality and the remaining things can come in to close the deal, but in order to START the "conversation" you are going to have to come to the table with some sort of decency in the Looks Department which I say needs to be at least a 6 out of 10.

Unless a guy is deformed or disabled in some type of way, he can fix up his looks even if he's OLDER. Having wrinkles won't make you ugly, if you remain fit in the gym, dress nice, keep yourself groomed, etc.

 

[samspade]

It's all any man has. But unlike you I still have some youth left. And I have my height and athletic build whatever that's worth. A man with muscles and unattractive face, still has an unattractive face. Unlike men, women don't usually go for a butterface. They'd rather have some young faggy pretty boy.

An ugly or aged man with tight game > pretty young beta boy. Your theories don't hold up in the field, or in evolutionary theory. Of course a man with tight game AND great looks (including body) is a jackpot. Good looks alone to a woman don't provide excitement, don't provide reframing, and certainly don't provide resources for survival. And in fact in studies on looks alone, women prefer rugged to pretty. You are projecting what men want onto women, I believe. Think about it logically: If looks were so paramount to attraction, we men would be targeted by cosmetic companies offering to help us look 20 for as long as possible. Instead we're targeted by characters like the Most Interesting Man In The World, who's older, mysterious, experienced, and not pretty but certainly masculine.

There's always room for debate and I concede we're all solipsistic to a point, but I don't think SoSuave would exist if looks were paramount. In fact, I consider myself a pretty good looking guy, and there were a few AFC years for me when I just didn't understand why it was so hard for me to get laid. The face in the mirror was objectively attractive, and people told me much the same. I remember thinking, what's wrong with me? What was wrong was I did not know how to speak to women, how to make them feel attraction. And in fact I have a more feminine-looking (or "faggy") face, so I grew a beard and started dressing more maturely, and that upped my mystery and attractiveness in my opinion. I'm dating a girl 17 years my junior, and she often points out how idiotic young guys act in comparison. Anecdotal I know, but that's been my experience.