Why does this keep happening when im on dates?

[pikachu69]

I met my date tonight it started off really well i had her laughing in hysterics on the walk to the bar..

but as soon as we got to sit down and attempted to order drinks (the waiter was slow) the conversation went stale and she didnt' ask me questions.

but she was one of these chatty chatty girls who you can't tell if she likes you or is just being friendly. She never kino'd me which was frustrating. I attempted kino and she was quite receptive at 1st but then later wasn't so much, she even let me massage her shoulders, maybe i should have gone in and kissed her neck when i pushed her hair to the side.

admittedly when she was semi-rejecting my kino it made me nervous and thats maybe when her interest started to drop. every time i attempted to grab her hand or whatnot she'd quite quickly let go. this unsettled me. do you think me keep attempting to touch her would make me come across as sleazy and creepy so it's better i just left it when i did?

she went to the bathroom after i gave the brief massage. when she came back she was ready to leave. she kept talking about her exam tomorrow and how she shouldn't have been out (which shows it was a good sign that she had high enough interest in me to come out with me)

i did DLV myself by saying later walking her back to the station that 'i appreciate you coming out given u have an exam tomorrow and i'd prefer next time we go out you're less stressed.'

i mean i made suggestions when me and her would meet up again like go explore places and she was very receptive but that could also mean im friendzoned.

see now cos valentines is sunday and i know you're not suppose to arrange 2nd date on 1st date, but i had to go for it. I didn't want to seem as if i was desperate and i told her i was busy until 5pm sunday but after i'm free and i'd take her out, she's like 'oh i'll let u know how the studying is going and if its ok then we'll meet up' i asked her if she had exam monday cos i wanted her less stressed next time.

anyway when i kissed her goodbye at the station she said she'd text me how her exam goes tomorrow. im using this as a tester to see if she wants me to take her out sunday or whether shes not interested.

why is it that she's not attracted? i mean i know you're suppose to kino, i did.. maybe too much.. and the convo flowed well i had her laughing and we have similar sense of humor but that doesn't seem enough.

 

[pikachu69]

Also I don't know why I didn't say anything when I asked her about the rings on her 4th finger right hand she says 'oh my mother bought me this 1 and my bf bought me this 1..' Then she realised she f'd up and immediately said 'my 1st bf I mean..' I should have said something but I didn't I just kept quiet. Now I'm stuck with this question wondering if I'm getting played or whether she genuinely made a mistake. If she said bf that means she has 1 and maybe didn't want me to know?

 

[WC2]

First and foremost, you're thinking entirely too much. New women are exactly that; new women who you don't know much about. New women should be like options to you. If you only have one option, then you continually stress on that one option. It's obvious here that you're stressing quite a bit about it.

Second, the reason your date went stale is because you allowed it to go stale. It's cool for a woman to ask you questions on a date, however the man should always be the one who's directing conversation, asking the most questions.

Women naturally love to talk, so one simple question could turn into her going on a rant for 10 minutes. It not only gives you time to sit back and relax, but it also shows her that you can hold a conversation and you are genuinely interested in her as a person, not as just a piece of ass.

I don't know about the massage on a first date.. kind of creepy if you ask me (unless you're back at her place on a couch or in her BED).

I never really get to heavy with kino on a first date unless a woman is sending out a lot of IOIs throughout. Usually a kiss on the cheek before and after the date will do. Nudging her while joking around is a great way to make her feel comfortable also; that is if you're making her laugh.

And that brings me to my last point. Laughter. If you can make a girl laugh, you can make a girl do anything. Let me ask you a question. How many times did you make this chick laugh or even just chuckle? Humor shows a woman that you have culture and that you are once again, a great conversator. Laughter brings down a woman's shield, which she obviously had up for a lot of the date.

Find other options (women) and keep improving yourself. If you wish to continue pursuing this girl, make sure you at least find other options before so you aren't as stressed on her. This is how one-itis starts.

Most importantly, go into a date not stressed and worried, but curious and relaxed. Relaxed that this is just a new woman who may mean nothing to you, and curious about who she is. Think about who SHE is more than yourself. In fact, you shouldn't be thinking about yourself at all during the date. You're confident enough to not worry about that.

best of luck

 

[Ease]

Sounds like you're over eager.

Slow down

The content of the conversation could really lighten this up. Instead of being so eager and interested in getting this girl, concentrate more on the moment.

Make more jokes, have more laughs, flirt more. She knows how eager you are when you make suggestions and future dates and activites, it really kills the sexual tension for her. You would be much better off leaving her wondering if you are gona call again and if you liked her or not.

When you get a girl on the date, all you have to do is shine. Be the man on the date, lead the way and have fun. That is the biggest DHV. Along with that, light kino and flirty touching. Think of kino as breaking a touch barrier to get comfortable with eachother, rather than a tool for DHV.

Thats my critique on your first date, im sure others will add more. Apart from that it sounds good, relax and show less interest, keep her chasing.

 

[I'm in the Mood]

When she came back she was ready to leave. she kept talking about her exam tomorrow and how she shouldn't have been out (which shows it was a good sign that she had high enough interest in me to come out with me.)

This is a BAD sign.

She was thinking about something totally unrelated during your date and you don't know how much attention she put into that.

I hope you see the problematic side to this - she was WORRIED instead of HAVING FUN, and her worry seems to have overpowered your kino.

Kino is supposed to be a treat, and you're supposed to give her tastes of it unpredictably for it to work at its full potential.

Overall, she could very well be attracted to you, you'll just have to wait and find out on your next date.

Everything you said points to her stressing about her exam, which interrupted the experience of your date.
This doesn't mean you have to next her, just keep doing what you're doing but make sure to pay more attention to her emotions and send her in the right direction.

Your desire for her was getting in the way of her being prepared for her test, because you should have just sent her home to study.

You want to share an experience with her when she's at her best, not stressed.

 

[Annapolis Sailor]

Not to worry. Women behave like this quite commonly. Trust me, if the girl was interested in you, you would not have to work at it. A guy can get away with a lot of things if she is interested/infatuated in you. Here is what I mean:

Senario one
You, "Ooops... did I spill my drink on your expensive blouse?! My bad."
Her, "That is ok, accidents happen." (He is soo cute)

Senario two
You two are dancing,
Her, "Ouch!"
You, "Did I step on you again?"
Her, "I must have stepped wrong. I guess I am not paying attention." (I hope he thinks I am not a klutz).

Senario three
You starring at her breasts
Her, "What are you looking at?"
You, "I am starring at you b**bs. I like them." You are being playful.
Her, (Dam he is bold. Somewhat of a perv. Hmmm.... I kinda like that) she blushes.

In all these cases, if the woman is interested in you she will find ways to justify your actions to be with you. You are a jerk, but in a 'good' way. If you look good, smell good, and are confident and ****y to a point, she will stick around.
In your case, if a girl ever dumps like that for no reason here is what you do.
Her, "I have to study, er uh, wash my hair , feed my dog, etc."
You respond, "How much money do you have on you?"
Her, "Why?"
You, "I just want to know, so how much?"
Her, "About $20 dollars"
You, "Good, you have enough to get yourself a cab. See ya!"

Harsh? Yeah, maybe. But you will have a reputation of not taking any s**t from women. They might not like it, but they respect it, and believe it or not to some degree turned on by it. Do not be surprised if she calls you later on.
That is my two cents.

 

[pikachu69]

I see.. I had in her hysterics for most of the date. Our sense of humor is literally the same and she's a lot of fun to be around but her rejection of my kino concerns me and that made me nervous. Is what I said in my 2nd post a clear sign that she has a bf?

 

[pikachu69]

Also how long should I wait before I call her again? Obvviously I'll use whether she gets back to me as a sign whether she's interested and if she doesn't wait a little longer before I call her cos then at least she might wonder why I didn't call for valentines and why I didn't call in general. She expects a call, I won't give her it. Not yet anyway.

 

[nismo-4]

Foolish Pikachu, listen here!

Your date didn't go stale because of the girl's exam and her non reciprocation, your date went stale only because of YOU.

I met my date tonight it started off really well i had her laughing in hysterics on the walk to the bar..

Good. It's super effective! Don't overdo it

but as soon as we got to sit down and attempted to order drinks (the waiter was slow) the conversation went stale and she didnt' ask me questions.

Slow and steady would win this race.

but she was one of these chatty chatty girls who you can't tell if she likes you or is just being friendly. She never kino'd me which was frustrating. I attempted kino and she was quite receptive at 1st but then later wasn't so much, she even let me massage her shoulders, maybe i should have gone in and kissed her neck when i pushed her hair to the side.

You were nervous=attraction killer and quit over-analyzing! It's not very effective.

admittedly when she was semi-rejecting my kino it made me nervous and thats maybe when her interest started to drop. every time i attempted to grab her hand or whatnot she'd quite quickly let go. this unsettled me. do you think me keep attempting to touch her would make me come across as sleazy and creepy so it's better i just left it when i did?

Her attraction level wasn't high enough to make your kino super effective. Your nervousness did indeed make her IL drop. She knew she had you on the ropes and at your wit's end. An earthquake is super effective on an electric type like Pikachu.

she went to the bathroom after i gave the brief massage. when she came back she was ready to leave. she kept talking about her exam tomorrow and how she shouldn't have been out (which shows it was a good sign that she had high enough interest in me to come out with me)

Your ner- Just read the above paragraph. This is not a good sign here.

i did DLV myself by saying later walking her back to the station that 'i appreciate you coming out given u have an exam tomorrow and i'd prefer next time we go out you're less stressed.'

You made the girl feel like she did you a damn favor. Now it's all downhill from here.

i mean i made suggestions when me and her would meet up again like go explore places and she was very receptive but that could also mean im friendzoned.

You're more likely already friendzoned because you broke (got nervous.) Insecurity is not a turn on.

see now cos valentines is sunday and i know you're not suppose to arrange 2nd date on 1st date, but i had to go for it. I didn't want to seem as if i was desperate and i told her i was busy until 5pm sunday but after i'm free and i'd take her out, she's like 'oh i'll let u know how the studying is going and if its ok then we'll meet up' i asked her if she had exam monday cos i wanted her less stressed next time.

You broke your own rule and want sympathy. No way. And she said Oh I'll call and let you know? That's woman-ese for I'm not that interested.

anyway when i kissed her goodbye at the station she said she'd text me how her exam goes tomorrow. im using this as a tester to see if she wants me to take her out sunday or whether shes not interested.

You should know she's not that interested in you by now.

why is it that she's not attracted? i mean i know you're suppose to kino, i did.. maybe too much.. and the convo flowed well i had her laughing and we have similar sense of humor but that doesn't seem enough.

Making a woman laugh can be super effective, but the nervousness you gave off nullified it all. Your confidence was poisoned, getting weaker and weaker by the moment.

Read be- You understand the deal. Listen to Ease too!

 

[pikachu69]

And what am I suppose to do as soon as I notice her interest is dipping? That's usually when I start to get nervous or panic as I have no idea why its suddenly dipped. How does 1 recover? I feel as if she 'feels' that its not going to work.. And with that in mind I think I.go into desperate mode wondering what to do which then leeads to afc stuff. I can't help it I'm naturally going to get nervous or panic as soon as I see her interest dropping. Is there any quick fire trick to save the situation?

 

[Alle_Gory]

I see.. I had in her hysterics for most of the date. Our sense of humor is literally the same and she's a lot of fun to be around but her rejection of my kino concerns me and that made me nervous. Is what I said in my 2nd post a clear sign that she has a bf?

And what else did you do? Seems to me like you just like entertaining them as people all the while forgetting they are women and they have needs. She wants to fvck an attractive guy. Now that can be you, or most likely someone else. Treat her like a woman. Acknowledge that she is a woman. Accept her for being a woman.

This is where the ****y funny attitude, sexual innuendos, compliments on her body (Such as: I like the way you dress tonite, your ass looks perky.), and teasing work.

Is there any quick fire trick to save the situation?

Sure there is. It's called pulling away. Only problem is you can't use it because you're a wreck.

Work on yourself.

 

[pikachu69]

And what else did you do? Seems to me like you just like entertaining them as people all the while forgetting they are women and they have needs. She wants to fvck an attractive guy. Now that can be you, or most likely someone else. Treat her like a woman. Acknowledge that she is a woman. Accept her for being a woman.

This is where the ****y funny attitude, sexual innuendos, compliments on her body (Such as: I like the way you dress tonite, your ass looks perky.), and teasing work.



Sure there is. It's called pulling away. Only problem is you can't use it because you're a wreck.

Work on yourself.

is pulling away when say she isn't receptive to my kino i just sit back and give her less attention and kinda look away?

i'm reading the dj bible and i think the major problem is that i go in with a winning mindset but if it's not going right i fall back into afc habits during the date cos i panic that she's losing interest. like at 1 point she was interested then 10mins of convo later suddenly i'm noticing and feeling from her she's losing/lost interest and there's nothing i can do to recover. it's like a battle.

incidently, i have a dilemma whereby i also am suppose to date someone she knows but really not well. if they find out that i'm dating them both i'll get neither. i dont have any options right now apart from these 2 and i'm working on that tonight but failing that when would be a good time to take out the other 1? i dont want them to label me as the guy who's tryna be clever dating this girl then a girl she knows, i know jealousy is good but i doubt it's going to help me in this situation.

 

[squirrels]

I see.. I had in her hysterics for most of the date. Our sense of humor is literally the same and she's a lot of fun to be around but her rejection of my kino concerns me and that made me nervous. Is what I said in my 2nd post a clear sign that she has a bf?

Are you a stud or a clown?

Making a woman laugh is good, but you're not there to make her laugh, you're there to make her F*CK. The humor is just a way of keeping her at ease while you work your magic.
First of all, hand-holding is a boyfriend/girlfriend kind of thing...it's awkward on a first date. I'll put an arm around a girl or something, but hand-holding just seems kind of middle-schoolish.

Second, you can't just grab a girl's hand while you're walking during an awkward silence. Kino should be situational. A touch on the arm when making a point, a hand on the back/around the waist when you're moving from place to place, a hand on the knee if you're sitting down with her...it has to be subtle but confident.

The way you talk, it makes it sound like your delivery was very awkward. If you feel like you're being a "creep" when you touch a girl, it probably shows VERY vividly in the way you "execute your kino"...and she'll pick up on that and start shying away.

Third, after that shoulder massage, YOU should have been suggesting a venue-change, not her. Between your awkward nervousness and your failure to escalate beyond simple hand-holding, she probably got it in her head that "this date is going nowhere fast" and decided to call it quits.

I've missed F-opportunities with women before just as a result of timing. For example, if I had extracted from the bar an hour earlier I could get laid, but because she stayed and had that one more drink, she wasn't feeling well and by the time she sobered up, the moment had passed. Or I've had the girl on my couch but wanted to wait until the movie was over to make a move...by that time, she was totally bored and just needed to get out. (girl I had F'd before too!)

Fourth, you SEALED your fate when you apologized for pulling her away from her studies. Apologized?? You did that girl a FAVOR. And you probably could've done her an even BIGGER favor by banging her out while you still had time.

Then, at the absolute LOWEST point of attraction of the entire evening, you start trying to negotiate a second date. All this, "If you're not too busy" BS, making yourself look absolutely pathetic.

THIS is why "good girls like bad guys".

A so-called "bad guy" would have joked to put himself and her at ease, not to try to be a walking sideshow.

A "bad guy" would have touched her like touching her wasn't a big deal...it's fun for him. He wants to do it, and she wants him to do it, and they both want it to be smooth and not awkward.

A "bad guy" wouldn't have d*cked around in the bar...if he's giving a shoulder massage, it's because he wants sensual contact, and it's leading up to something else. He wouldn't go back to joking and nonsense at that point...he would be moving to change venues to something more intimate, where he can make a move. His place, her place, the park, the back-seat of a Chevy, anything.

A "bad guy" wouldn't APOLOGIZE for showing a woman a good time. Nor would he ASK permission for anything, he would just TAKE, and leave it up to HER to say "no" if she wasn't liking it.

A "bad guy" wouldn't waste her time on a night when she was looking for some lovin' but had to be up early tomorrow.

Stop being scared of the p*ssy.

You know why it's so easy to get the ugly girls? Because there's a mutual understanding that you'd be doing them a FAVOR by offering them some d*ck.

But when the girl is more attractive than you, you feel the other way 'round. You feel like SHE would be doing you a favor by giving you the p*ssy...and you feel like you have to "buy" it by doing stuff like making her laugh, giving her massages, etc...

You don't have to earn a goddam thing when you're on a date with a girl. If you're a true "Don Juan", you've ALREADY earned it. At this point, you're just showing it off.

The message a player is trying to convey to a girl is, "I have what you want. Let me give it to you."

The message YOU conveyed is, "You have what I want. Please, oh please, give it to me."

Your next step is to try to learn the difference...and learn to portray the FORMER attitude, rather than the LATTER. This is something you are capable of.

But hey, kudos to you for getting out there and dating a girl. It isn't said enough among a horde of KBJs.

 

[Alle_Gory]

is pulling away when say she isn't receptive to my kino i just sit back and give her less attention and kinda look away?

Yes. If she doesn't like you touching her then don't touch her! If she's not responding positively then leave her alone.

Your goal isn't to force yourself on anyone. It's to entice them to be around you. You need to work on yourself. Looks like you can entertain, that's good. That's only a small part of it though.... a very small part. You're not a monkey.

like at 1 point she was interested then 10mins of convo later suddenly i'm noticing and feeling from her she's losing/lost interest and there's nothing i can do to recover. it's like a battle.

It always is. What exactly were you doing, feeling (affects your body language), or saying JUST before she lost interest?

if they find out that i'm dating them both i'll get neither.

You don't tell them unless they need to know. For example, let's say one is acting up badly. "Sure babe, go do whatever, I'll call up Susan."... etc.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Are you a stud or a clown?

Making a woman laugh is good, but you're not there to make her laugh, you're there to make her F*CK. The humor is just a way of keeping her at ease while you work your magic.
First of all, hand-holding is a boyfriend/girlfriend kind of thing...it's awkward on a first date. I'll put an arm around a girl or something, but hand-holding just seems kind of middle-schoolish.

Second, you can't just grab a girl's hand while you're walking during an awkward silence. Kino should be situational. A touch on the arm when making a point, a hand on the back/around the waist when you're moving from place to place, a hand on the knee if you're sitting down with her...it has to be subtle but confident.

The way you talk, it makes it sound like your delivery was very awkward. If you feel like you're being a "creep" when you touch a girl, it probably shows VERY vividly in the way you "execute your kino"...and she'll pick up on that and start shying away.

Third, after that shoulder massage, YOU should have been suggesting a venue-change, not her. Between your awkward nervousness and your failure to escalate beyond simple hand-holding, she probably got it in her head that "this date is going nowhere fast" and decided to call it quits.

I've missed F-opportunities with women before just as a result of timing. For example, if I had extracted from the bar an hour earlier I could get laid, but because she stayed and had that one more drink, she wasn't feeling well and by the time she sobered up, the moment had passed. Or I've had the girl on my couch but wanted to wait until the movie was over to make a move...by that time, she was totally bored and just needed to get out. (girl I had F'd before too!)

Fourth, you SEALED your fate when you apologized for pulling her away from her studies. Apologized?? You did that girl a FAVOR. And you probably could've done her an even BIGGER favor by banging her out while you still had time.

Then, at the absolute LOWEST point of attraction of the entire evening, you start trying to negotiate a second date. All this, "If you're not too busy" BS, making yourself look absolutely pathetic.

THIS is why "good girls like bad guys".

A so-called "bad guy" would have joked to put himself and her at ease, not to try to be a walking sideshow.

A "bad guy" would have touched her like touching her wasn't a big deal...it's fun for him. He wants to do it, and she wants him to do it, and they both want it to be smooth and not awkward.

A "bad guy" wouldn't have d*cked around in the bar...if he's giving a shoulder massage, it's because he wants sensual contact, and it's leading up to something else. He wouldn't go back to joking and nonsense at that point...he would be moving to change venues to something more intimate, where he can make a move. His place, her place, the park, the back-seat of a Chevy, anything.

A "bad guy" wouldn't APOLOGIZE for showing a woman a good time. Nor would he ASK permission for anything, he would just TAKE, and leave it up to HER to say "no" if she wasn't liking it.

A "bad guy" wouldn't waste her time on a night when she was looking for some lovin' but had to be up early tomorrow.

Stop being scared of the p*ssy.

You know why it's so easy to get the ugly girls? Because there's a mutual understanding that you'd be doing them a FAVOR by offering them some d*ck.

But when the girl is more attractive than you, you feel the other way 'round. You feel like SHE would be doing you a favor by giving you the p*ssy...and you feel like you have to "buy" it by doing stuff like making her laugh, giving her massages, etc...

You don't have to earn a goddam thing when you're on a date with a girl. If you're a true "Don Juan", you've ALREADY earned it. At this point, you're just showing it off.

The message a player is trying to convey to a girl is, "I have what you want. Let me give it to you."

The message YOU conveyed is, "You have what I want. Please, oh please, give it to me."

Your next step is to try to learn the difference...and learn to portray the FORMER attitude, rather than the LATTER. This is something you are capable of.

But hey, kudos to you for getting out there and dating a girl. It isn't said enough among a horde of KBJs.

I was gonna respond but Squirrels absolutely killed it from every angle!

Great post bro! Long time no talk.... hope your doing well dude





PIMP

 

[pikachu69]

To be honest I don't remember what happened just before she lost interest but I remember when I asked about the 2 rings on her right hand and she said her mother gave her 1 and her bf gave the other then she realised she f'd up and immediately said '1st bf' I should have questioned it but Iafter that things went downhill. Do u think that I'm getting played or she was looking to branch swing?QUOTE=Alle_Gory]Yes. If she doesn't like you touching her then don't touch her! If she's not responding positively then leave her alone.

Your goal isn't to force yourself on anyone. It's to entice them to be around you. You need to work on yourself. Looks like you can entertain, that's good. That's only a small part of it though.... a very small part. You're not a monkey.



It always is. What exactly were you doing, feeling (affects your body language), or saying JUST before she lost interest?



You don't tell them unless they need to know. For example, let's say one is acting up badly. "Sure babe, go do whatever, I'll call up Susan."... etc.[/QUOTE]

 

[pikachu69]

To be honest I don't remember what happened just before she lost interest but I remember when I asked about the 2 rings on her right hand and she said her mother gave her 1 and her bf gave the other then she realised she f'd up and immediately said '1st bf' I should have questioned it but Iafter that things went downhill. Do u think that I'm getting played or she was looking to branch swing?QUOTE=Alle_Gory]Yes. If she doesn't like you touching her then don't touch her! If she's not responding positively then leave her alone.

Your goal isn't to force yourself on anyone. It's to entice them to be around you. You need to work on yourself. Looks like you can entertain, that's good. That's only a small part of it though.... a very small part. You're not a monkey.



It always is. What exactly were you doing, feeling (affects your body language), or saying JUST before she lost interest?



You don't tell them unless they need to know. For example, let's say one is acting up badly. "Sure babe, go do whatever, I'll call up Susan."... etc.[/QUOTE]

 

[Alle_Gory]

You're not an interrogator. Observe and judge, don't prod. That way you see what people are in their natural environment... like a detective.

At least you're self-aware of what you're doing. That is an excellent skill to have. Use it.

 

[pikachu_69]

You're not an interrogator. Observe and judge, don't prod. That way you see what people are in their natural environment... like a detective.

At least you're self-aware of what you're doing. That is an excellent skill to have. Use it.

So you think it was better that i didn't question it?

the way it seems is that she thinks i believed her lame excuse.

she didn't text me today about how her exam went, is it worth my while calling her ever again? i dont know if she has a bf, if she does shes concealing it telling me shes just having lunch with her roommate on valentines and studying.

I was thinking of waiting till after valentines has passed and at least a few more days before i call, would this help?

im wary im developing oneitis again which is a problem, i had 3 girls and i temporarily have oneities for each 1 depending who i'm seeing. I just feel that IF she is even remotely interested will she contact me at some point even if its to validate to herself that she's still got me, should i just ignore such a text?

 

[pikachu_69]

Are you a stud or a clown?

Making a woman laugh is good, but you're not there to make her laugh, you're there to make her F*CK. The humor is just a way of keeping her at ease while you work your magic.
First of all, hand-holding is a boyfriend/girlfriend kind of thing...it's awkward on a first date. I'll put an arm around a girl or something, but hand-holding just seems kind of middle-schoolish.

Second, you can't just grab a girl's hand while you're walking during an awkward silence. Kino should be situational. A touch on the arm when making a point, a hand on the back/around the waist when you're moving from place to place, a hand on the knee if you're sitting down with her...it has to be subtle but confident.

The way you talk, it makes it sound like your delivery was very awkward. If you feel like you're being a "creep" when you touch a girl, it probably shows VERY vividly in the way you "execute your kino"...and she'll pick up on that and start shying away.

Third, after that shoulder massage, YOU should have been suggesting a venue-change, not her. Between your awkward nervousness and your failure to escalate beyond simple hand-holding, she probably got it in her head that "this date is going nowhere fast" and decided to call it quits.

I've missed F-opportunities with women before just as a result of timing. For example, if I had extracted from the bar an hour earlier I could get laid, but because she stayed and had that one more drink, she wasn't feeling well and by the time she sobered up, the moment had passed. Or I've had the girl on my couch but wanted to wait until the movie was over to make a move...by that time, she was totally bored and just needed to get out. (girl I had F'd before too!)

Fourth, you SEALED your fate when you apologized for pulling her away from her studies. Apologized?? You did that girl a FAVOR. And you probably could've done her an even BIGGER favor by banging her out while you still had time.

Then, at the absolute LOWEST point of attraction of the entire evening, you start trying to negotiate a second date. All this, "If you're not too busy" BS, making yourself look absolutely pathetic.

THIS is why "good girls like bad guys".

A so-called "bad guy" would have joked to put himself and her at ease, not to try to be a walking sideshow.

A "bad guy" would have touched her like touching her wasn't a big deal...it's fun for him. He wants to do it, and she wants him to do it, and they both want it to be smooth and not awkward.

A "bad guy" wouldn't have d*cked around in the bar...if he's giving a shoulder massage, it's because he wants sensual contact, and it's leading up to something else. He wouldn't go back to joking and nonsense at that point...he would be moving to change venues to something more intimate, where he can make a move. His place, her place, the park, the back-seat of a Chevy, anything.

A "bad guy" wouldn't APOLOGIZE for showing a woman a good time. Nor would he ASK permission for anything, he would just TAKE, and leave it up to HER to say "no" if she wasn't liking it.

A "bad guy" wouldn't waste her time on a night when she was looking for some lovin' but had to be up early tomorrow.

Stop being scared of the p*ssy.

You know why it's so easy to get the ugly girls? Because there's a mutual understanding that you'd be doing them a FAVOR by offering them some d*ck.

But when the girl is more attractive than you, you feel the other way 'round. You feel like SHE would be doing you a favor by giving you the p*ssy...and you feel like you have to "buy" it by doing stuff like making her laugh, giving her massages, etc...

You don't have to earn a goddam thing when you're on a date with a girl. If you're a true "Don Juan", you've ALREADY earned it. At this point, you're just showing it off.

The message a player is trying to convey to a girl is, "I have what you want. Let me give it to you."

The message YOU conveyed is, "You have what I want. Please, oh please, give it to me."

Your next step is to try to learn the difference...and learn to portray the FORMER attitude, rather than the LATTER. This is something you are capable of.

But hey, kudos to you for getting out there and dating a girl. It isn't said enough among a horde of KBJs.

You're right, thanks for correcting my mistakes. how do i portray the former attitude when every time i go on a date it's so difficult for me to just not care whether it works out or not?

i know i need to have more plates but im not fortunate to have lots of plates, even when i go to pick up i dont have a high success rate so when i dated this girl yesterday i already lost 1 of my 3 plates so it's hard not thinking i've got something to lose or if its going well then it doesn't a sense of loss. i can't seem to maintain this mindset when im on a date with them, how does one do this?

i've read the bible but i still keep falling back into that afc mindset as soon as i see her interest dropping.

last question, is it worth bothering to call her again? should i just test to see if she'll contact me? im wary she may just be looking for validation that shes still got me.

i dont know if she has a bf (i mentioned the ring on her 4th finger, asked her and she said her mom gave her one and her bf gave the other.. then she immediately said '1st bf..' she f'd up, then after everything went downhill although she let me massage her.