When to apologize or clarify things?

[Herb]

Let's face it, realistically speaking, at some point, especially for guys that are not quite the smooth Don Juans they aspire to be with women yet, they're going to make some mistakes in handling a girl, either by teasing or negging the wrong way or just saying something dumb or odd accidentally. I know this may go against the whole “game” mentality on here, but how should situations be handled where you know you said something to rub a girl the wrong way, when you first get to know her? Or just said something likely perceived as weird or off-putting, even though you didn't mean it that way. Especially through text, where tone is not easily conveyed? I feel like either way you go, you run the risk of going wrong, and there isn't a right answer. I hesitate at trying to explain or apologize for things like that for several reasons. One, it makes you look weak, needy, uncertain and not manly. Two, especially if they didn't reply to the last thing you sent, it doesn't look good sending another one or two messages or some lengthy paragraph explaining what you actually meant to say, or that you were kidding, or worded it wrong.

But at the same time, if you don't say anything to clarify a potential misunderstanding, you run the risk of her just thinking you're a jerk or a weirdo, and will also cause her to stop replying and lose interest. It's like you're screwed if you do, screwed if you don't. How should one approach this? It's unfortunately happened to me on more occasions than I'd like to admit, partly the result of having a “quirkier” personality I guess you could say, and trying to make things interesting in a convo but coming across the wrong way. I'd imagine some people would just suggest calling her, but that is if she'd even pick up.

I mean the apologizing or clarifying thing has actually worked for me at times, but only with girls that I actually had a long history with, not ones that I didn't know well. Obviously they had little emotional connection or attachment yet so they could easily move on in these situations.

Should you really just automatically give up on and 'next' a girl that you do this with, even if it was one innocent comment that was misconstrued? I mean I'm sure some guys on here will say, a girl like that wasn't gonna be good with you anyway, move on, but what if there was actual potential there and simply by saying the wrong thing at the wrong time (yes women are fickle and often overly sensitive), you screwed up something that could have been good? And by no means do I believe there is a special "one" out there for everyone (despite this post I've learned not to hang on too much to one girl), and technically everyone could probably be compatible with anyone else given the right circumstances, but still. Just curious.

 

[Epicwinguy]

Lol last night I was at a little "party" and I called this Jewish girl a "juden" and she got so offended. I laughed but didn't apoligize. Its not really a full blown holocaust joke anyway.

 

[dustmuffin]

Never apologize

 

[narcissist]

Be unapologetically you. If you say something, OWN IT.

If a girl doesn't like what you say on one occasion, how the bloody fvck do you expect things to grow with her over time, when that is who YOU ARE? Are you going to start changing your whole personality to fit her sensitive personality? NO. You wont. I will not allow it.

What you have to do is this: be unapologetically you, and talk to as many women as possible. You want to be able to find a woman that is as quirky as you, or that wont get offended by sh1t that you say. This is the only way you will find a girl that will be compatible WITH YOU. That IS what you are trying to find right? If not, then you have more to worry about then your question.

NEVER EVER FVCKING CHANGE YOUR PERSONALITY FOR A WOMAN. NEVER EVER FVCKING APOLOGIZE FOR WHO YOU ARE. THAT IS SOME AFC SH1T.

1] That is unattractive as fvck. Them being offended at something you say could be a sh1t test to see how easy it is to make you concede to them. By apologizing you lose.

2] Is your whole life dictated by the perceptions that women have of you? Do you allow women to police your language? Do you look to their perception to dictate what type of person YOU should be? If so, that is the whackest sh1t ever.

YOU DEFINE WHO YOU ARE. SAY WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY. DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT. OH FVCKING WELL.

The second you start changing who are because other people dont like it, is the second you allow other people to create you. That is the second you become the slave to the perceptions of other people. That is the second you lose your existential freedom. So stop being a little b1tch and stop apologizing to people who dont like you.

 

[Herb]

Yeah I guess you're right. In the end, I am looking for someone who can work with who I am and be okay with that (and likewise I with her). And I knew this before even asking the question (but don't you think sometimes once you get to know each other and your quirks and stuff that you can be more understanding and able to work with the other and their sense of humor or communication? I'm pretty sure there's girls I've been with for quite a while and had a decent relationship with who would've easily rejected me if I messed up early in the process, but luckily I didn't; later however, when I said or did things to piss them off, we moved past it without much of a problem because they knew me enough to give me another chance).

Still, I suppose it is a numbers game out there. But what I was trying to say is sometimes we just do things that are tactless and it doesn't necessarily stem from a deeper incompatibility. It might not even be a personality thing, but you can just say something that was not strategic and counterintuitive in that particular situation; this forum seems replete with stories and cases like that. I suppose those witty enough and quick on their feet can maneuver around their statement, making it funny or acknowledging what they said without seeming like they're actually apologizing, and then skillfully moving the conversation forward past that point. I've seen that work before.

And I didn't mean in situations only where I'm trying to go for a relationship or dating with a girl. Even with just a "plate", as I guess they're called on here. I suppose if I'm not emotionally invested in it, then it's not a big deal to move on, but it sucks when you invest a bit of a time into a girl only to mess up by saying the wrong thing. But yes, I get it; I won't try apologizing anymore, especially with girls I don't know well yet.

 

[bigneil]

I once saw a cartoon where one character sucker punched the other in the gut. Then he said "Remember that time I did THIS?" (sucker punching him in the gut again) "Sorry about that!"

That's the effect apologizing has. You make a copy of whatever hurt them to begin with!

Explaining things is even worse. Only answer questions.

 

[Trump]

Let's face it, realistically speaking, at some point, especially for guys that are not quite the smooth Don Juans they aspire to be with women yet, they're going to make some mistakes in handling a girl, either by teasing or negging the wrong way or just saying something dumb or odd accidentally. I know this may go against the whole “game” mentality on here, but how should situations be handled where you know you said something to rub a girl the wrong way, when you first get to know her? Or just said something likely perceived as weird or off-putting, even though you didn't mean it that way. Especially through text, where tone is not easily conveyed?

Men shouldn't be saying "weird things" at any time, let alone a girl you want to have sex with. Men shouldn't be texting either unless its arranging a time to meet. Anything other than scheduling a meet through text can be used against you. Don't try to turn her on with a joke, a neg, or a slight put down. It shows weakness. Turn her on indirectly, by having her see 1st hand how society values you.

I feel like either way you go, you run the risk of going wrong, and there isn't a right answer. I hesitate at trying to explain or apologize for things like that for several reasons. One, it makes you look weak, needy, uncertain and not manly. Two, especially if they didn't reply to the last thing you sent, it doesn't look good sending another one or two messages or some lengthy paragraph explaining what you actually meant to say, or that you were kidding, or worded it wrong.

But at the same time, if you don't say anything to clarify a potential misunderstanding, you run the risk of her just thinking you're a jerk or a weirdo, and will also cause her to stop replying and lose interest. It's like you're screwed if you do, screwed if you don't. How should one approach this?

Come on bro. Your logic is off. You are saying "if they are not buying what I am selling, how do I explain it again so they understand how great it is, or apologize because they don't understand how great it is?"

Again, don't try to turn her on by being "quirky" "funny" "different" "offbeat". Just be polite, respectful, don't say dumb things, and make your intentions known.

Should you really just automatically give up on and 'next' a girl that you do this with, even if it was one innocent comment that was misconstrued? I mean I'm sure some guys on here will say, a girl like that wasn't gonna be good with you anyway, move on, but what if there was actual potential there and simply by saying the wrong thing at the wrong time (yes women are fickle and often overly sensitive), you screwed up something that could have been good? And by no means do I believe there is a special "one" out there for everyone (despite this post I've learned not to hang on too much to one girl), and technically everyone could probably be compatible with anyone else given the right circumstances, but still. Just curious.

What are you saying to these girls that they lose all interest in a moment's notice? Instead of saying they are "overly sensitive" and "fickle", why don't you talk about things they like: education, money, music, dance, power, clothes, real estate, stocks, cars. No girl will be "overly sensitive" if you talk about how you are going to put her in your next movie.

 

[devilkingx2]

Should you really just automatically give up on and 'next' a girl that you do this with, even if it was one innocent comment that was misconstrued? I mean I'm sure some guys on here will say, a girl like that wasn't gonna be good with you anyway, move on, but what if there was actual potential there and simply by saying the wrong thing at the wrong time (yes women are fickle and often overly sensitive), you screwed up something that could have been good? And by no means do I believe there is a special "one" out there for everyone (despite this post I've learned not to hang on too much to one girl), and technically everyone could probably be compatible with anyone else given the right circumstances, but still. Just curious.

if she's willing to drop you over one minor comment she'd be willing to dump you over one mistake too, not worth your time to walk on eggshells

in addition, if she's super sensitive and needs you to mind what you say (within reason) then she's too high maintenance to be worth your time.

i've talked to girls who were too prudish to deal with me saying anything sexual, i simply stop talking to them(or let them stop talking to me) if they don't get over it.

i've talked to girls who couldn't take a joke, well i make lots of jokes and i have nothing to say in a normal conversation if i'm not allowed to make jokes, so i simply don't talk to people who can't take a joke, etc.

no need to bend over backwards for an unreasonable girl.

HOWEVER, and this is key, this is all within reason, if you make holocaust jokes to jews or can't go 15 minutes without saying something racist or some other such thing that would offend even the most reasonable of girls, then you've gotta work on your conversational skills

 

[Mike32ct]

IME, women get MORE pissed off AFTER you apologize, even when you are genuinely sorry.

I'm not exactly sure why. There are some random theories on that, one of which was alluded to above.

1. An apology calls attention to the offense and makes it replay in her mind once again. That can never end well.

2. Sadly, a lot of women will view an apology as weakness. Pre-apology you were just a jerk. Post-apology you are a wimpy loser. She almost "smells blood" like a shark now (because she senses weakness) and will go on the offense against you.

So don't apologize. Just let it go and change the conversation or worst case eject.

 

[Dingo]

Apologies are OK in some circumstances..... Just don't be a supplicaing b-itch.

 

[devilkingx2]

apologies are only okay if you ACTUALLY did something wrong

like if she caught you balls deep in her sister or something, or you got drunk and angry and punched her in the face

 

[Herb]

I get it now that there was more explanation. Thanks for the advice guys. I'll try to incorporate it. And I have been slowly learning that it's more how you do something than if you do it in the first place.

I suppose the reason I sometimes say things that may be considered a little off the wall or out there is because I don't want to be just another basic bland macho-appearing alpha guy who says some formulaic stuff just to get with women, most of which they've likely already heard before from many other guys... I feel like I'd almost be betraying myself there. I wanted them to see perhaps a more interesting aspect of myself (because in reality I am kinda different from many people, personality-wise, for better or for worse), but maybe I jump the gun a bit with that and turn them off or scare em by doing it too early. I think that should wait till I've had several dates/encounters with them and they're more comfortable with it.

I think I may have gotten the wrong idea from some dates or interactions earlier in my dating history where I tried keeping it super basic, being careful to avoid anything remotely racy or provocative and ended up just coming across as insipid, without anything to distinguish me. Sure I had good manners and could keep up a "normal" convo, but there was nothing to spice it up and I got nowhere with them. Especially as these particular girls I could tell were the weirder or quirkier kind themselves (e.g. urban hipsters, emos, cute geeks) who may have valued more "out there" opinions, but I restrained myself. As a result of those experiences, I probably have been trying to overcompensate too much in my recent interactions, and also applying them to more regular/basic girls (who may be physically hotter to some) who that doesn't work with and get weirded out by it. I need to get better at gauging the type of person a girl is so I know what kind of approach to use with them. I also let my past experiences color my current approach too much.

 

[ubercat]

Great post OP. you already understand the idea that calibrating is a pendulum that self awareness will guide your game reliably over time. a lot of these hipster / emo/ Gothic chicks are totally bland themselves and r just so so dark on weekends generally depends on their drug intake.


I've caught Flack for it here before however try some normal convo up front just basic small talk and generally agreeing with what they say doesn't have to be long 10 to 15 minutes max then allow your quirkiness to surface. you are aiming for nice guy with Edge rather than Ted Bundy trying to hold it n.

 

[resilient]

I'll just point out that women really care less for what is being said, and more for how it is being said.

This. Or as John Maxwell says, "People may hear your words but they will feel your attitude."

 

[resilient]

She almost "smells blood" like a shark now (because she senses weakness) and will go on the offense against you.

Nice analogy, Mike. It's like they're already looking for an excuse disqualify. Weakness ups her offense intake to reject harder and faster.

 

[guru1000]

I hesitate at trying to explain or apologize for things like that for several reasons. One, it makes you look weak, needy, uncertain and not manly. Two, especially if they didn't reply to the last thing you sent, it doesn't look good sending another one or two messages or some lengthy paragraph explaining what you actually meant to say, or that you were kidding, or worded it wrong.

Lose this. Once you engage the thinking that xyz looks weak or needy, then you have already lost, as who is she whom deserves such thoughtful consideration.

Two, especially if they didn't reply to the last thing you sent.

She didn't reply, as she wasn't interested enough. Interested women make it easy for you, regardless of "blunders." Move on.

 

[The Duke]

I need to get better at gauging the type of person a girl is so I know what kind of approach to use with them.

"Gauging" isn't very well understood in the manosphere. I've always referred to it as "calibrating" but its the same thing and a lot of guys could increase their success if they understood this concept. Some think it means to change your personality and be someone you aren't, but that is totally not the case.

 

[NSX-R]

Never apologise for anything.
Even if you are making a mistake , never show weakness. Change the subject.

 

[devilkingx2]

I suppose the reason I sometimes say things that may be considered a little off the wall or out there is because I don't want to be just another basic bland macho-appearing alpha guy who says some formulaic stuff just to get with women, most of which they've likely already heard before from many other guys... I feel like I'd almost be betraying myself there. I wanted them to see perhaps a more interesting aspect of myself (because in reality I am kinda different from many people, personality-wise, for better or for worse), but maybe I jump the gun a bit with that and turn them off or scare em by doing it too early. I think that should wait till I've had several dates/encounters with them and they're more comfortable with it.

it doesn't matter if you're generic as long as she bangs guys who are your brand of generic lol.

for that matter, macho alpha males are the furthest from generic you could get, a normal woman is not going to be surrounded in them unless she's a cheerleader or something.

I think I may have gotten the wrong idea from some dates or interactions earlier in my dating history where I tried keeping it super basic, being careful to avoid anything remotely racy or provocative and ended up just coming across as insipid, without anything to distinguish me. Sure I had good manners and could keep up a "normal" convo, but there was nothing to spice it up and I got nowhere with them. Especially as these particular girls I could tell were the weirder or quirkier kind themselves (e.g. urban hipsters, emos, cute geeks) who may have valued more "out there" opinions, but I restrained myself. As a result of those experiences, I probably have been trying to overcompensate too much in my recent interactions, and also applying them to more regular/basic girls (who may be physically hotter to some) who that doesn't work with and get weirded out by it. I need to get better at gauging the type of person a girl is so I know what kind of approach to use with them. I also let my past experiences color my current approach too much.

you gotta remember to determine whether the problem was the approach or the girl

for example, if she thinks you're a psycho because you eat meat and she's a vegan, it's the girl

if she thinks you're a psycho because you stare menacingly and laugh maniacally, it's you.

if she thinks you talk about sex too much because you didn't wait until date 17, it's the girl.

if she thinks you talk about sex too much because you were trying to talk dirty at a 4 year old's birthday party, it's you.

etc. etc.

 

[Herb]

Good points. I'm glad this forum is actually able to productively discuss some more nuanced issues, unlike other "relationship" forums I've seen before which is full of guys just saying, "be you and be nice to her, buy her flowers, tell her the truth, and show her your heart and everything will succeed". Yeah right.

You know what, with this new girl I was working on, I said something that made her go "umm.. okay" and instead of apologizing or backtracking, I just kind of went forward with it in a sort of half-joking, exaggerated way and sort of "stuck to my guns", later moving the convo to another topic, and it worked. She had seemed on the verge of losing interest but I turned her around and we got a date lined up soon. So there is some truth to what y'all are saying.