What's the proper way to enforce boundaries?

[TheException]

Say you're exclusive with a girl. You've been together for a year and the relationship has carried on swimmingly. Not a single problem since the day you two met. She just gets it. The two of you are on a date at a restaurant one night, and she begins to text a friend. This upsets you, and she takes notice.

This doesn't upset us.

What does the anti-boundary crew do in this situation? Do they dump her right there on the spot, because setting boundaries is "pointless" and texting during dinner is reprehensible enough that the relationship must be terminated immediately?

I eat my filet mignon.

Any behavior the anti-boundary crowd finds disagreeable but not worth ending the relationship over, puts them in a bind

The "things" we find unacceptable we do not just let go pal. Can you paint with a broader brush?

There is just nothing unacceptable about texting a friend.

 

[Between_The_Lines]

This doesn't upset us.

Doesn't upset you. Put the broad brush down, kettle.

The "things" we find unacceptable we do not just let go pal. Can you paint with a broader brush?

So how do you handle behavior that you find disagreeable but not worthy of ending a LTR over?

There is just nothing unacceptable about texting a friend.

Right, and if it continues on through the duration of the date, each time effectively tuning you out? Just sit there and "take it like a man"?

What I'm gathering here is that the anti-boundary crew probably either puts up with a lot of sh1t, uses a "next!" to solve every issue, no matter how trifling, or are masters at selecting unicorns to avoid situations in which drawing boundaries may arise.

 

[zekko]

What's sort of interesting is that the three anti-boundaries people have such wildly different perspectives. Exception is typical blue pill. P+V and Sooli are red pill about the nature of women. I will call P+Vs orientation "PUA" and Sooli's "MGTOW".

That's an interesting observation, PairPlus. No wonder we keep you around. There seems to be a lot of variation in the way that the no boundary guys approach the issue. Exception thinks that a girl having male friends is just fine, while Sooli thinks that NO decent woman would even CONSIDER spending time with a male friend (while in a relationship).

In contrast and comparison, the pro boundary guys seem to share largely the same perspective and experiences. Not sure what that means, but it's interesting.

I have never had this, nor has Danger or zekko and yet surely our girlfriends should have lost attraction for us by now?

Yeah, I mean I've been with my girlfriend for over 11 frigging years now! I think that shows that setting boundaries can't reduce attraction that much, if at all.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Lost of responses here, I'll try to catch up.

Ah the good ol boundaries thread....

I can tell you right now from my personal experience with countless Girls/Women... Letting them know "Hey if you think im going to let that male friend sh*t slide, you got another thing comin" I am definitely on the boundaries side. My ex girlfriend when i met her, I told her straight out "If you want guy friends, thats fine with me but i dont want a relationship with you and we can be friends" She refused to let me go and didnt even think about crossing me. If i felt i didnt like something... She was going to fvcking know it. One night i was on her bed... a Guy friend she knows calls her phone and she looked over at me and said it was her guy friend. I immediately got up putting my jeans on and she went ballistic asking what i am doing and where i am going. i told her "Didnt i tell you that if any guy friends come contacting you, i was out the fvcking door?" She got on her knees literally and begged me to stay. After that incident guy friends were all gone. As the years went on.. I had loosen up on letting her do whatever she wanted, you know... aloof because i thought she loved me so of course i wasnt insecure or anything.. Long story short.. she was gone with another dude. Was it just this case? Nope....

Long story short: You told her not to have guy friends, but she still did. When you found out, you still stayed with her. Then she stopped having guy friends, but proceeded to cheat on you. So, you're saying she cheated on you once she finally abided by your boundaries and stopped having guy friends?

Has guy friends---->doesn't cheat

Gets rid of guy friends---->cheats

This correct?

Breaking it down further, I talked about this in another thread, if she's not allowed to have guy friends, then, when she continues to do so, you have to leave. There is no other option for you.

The problem I see here is that the only way this would work is if you're dating a robot that doesn't have any of the inherent characteristics of a woman ----->emotions------>$hit tests.

Women $hit test. They're like children, they need test their parent's boundaries. Women WILL do this. OVERTLY stating your boundaries is not good enough. Women will see how far they can push these boundaries. If you overtly state your boundaries you're not giving yourself an out. You've put yourself in a lose/lose situation----> she $hit tests----->your only choice is C) dump her on the spot.

But you stayed, even though you previously told her you would go. She perceived that as beta.

After her i went on a puzzy craze. meeting and dated so many hot women and my approach to them was all the same with guy friends. You got guy friends and talk with them... get the fvck out of here with that. These were HB8,9's so you would think they would all be turned off by this? NO. Straight from their mouths they would tell me they really love how i "put them in their place" or "Your very manly when you tell me what to do". This is with a sh*t load of women. When you let your Women go hang out with guy friends it sends a message to her that "hmmm, He doesnt mind me hanging with John.... Why isnt he putting me in my place?" because he doesnt want to come off as insecure or controlling lol What a croc of sh*t. Women love a man to steps up to the plate and tell them "this is how its going to go down". Dont be fooled either by the ones who claim they are so independent and confident... When the right guy comes through, they will bend for him in more ways than one. Anyway... To each his own. If it makes you feel good to let your chick do what she wants then thats cool but from my experience its just a very bad way to go.

So because she said she liked it when you put her in her place does that mean it was good for the long term? Do women say they like it when you buy them diamonds? Just sayin.

However, I do believe telling a woman she can't hang out with other guys, if done correctly, can give them a momentary spike of endorphins. It can be perceived as Alpha and Manly, for a while, until the wind changes direction, or you're not around to keep her in check or her endorphins spiked. It's letting her know that you care enough about her so that you don't want her hanging out with other men. It's letting her know that you're fighting for her. That you want her all to herself. What woman wouldn't want to hear that? She liked hearing it, I'm sure, maybe even got her juices flowing. It also gave her a sense of security, knowing you were looking after her, going to take care of her. So she obeyed your commands, like a kid does with their parents. Until the parents go out of town, and the kid proceeds to throw a party.

Personally, I'd rather have a woman in my life that kicks all other male threats to the curb on her own. Recognizes that I'm the one for her, and doesn't want to ruin it. Knows that I can walk out that door anytime, so therefore wants to please me, wants to prove to me that she's going to be there for the long haul, and in doing so, doesn't want to jeopardize the relationship in any way.

Yes but the fact remains both the anti-boundaries and the pro-boundaries object to and thus feel insecure about their women seeing other guys.

The anti crew choose not to show this insecurity whereas the pro crew choose to show this insecurity but for different reasons.

The anti crew are afraid that by showing their insecurity they will appear less attractive and lose the girl's respect whereas the pro crew do not fear this possible loss of respect.

Would not a man with strong inner and thus outer game NOT object/feel insecure about his girl seeing other men perhaps?

I don't think you understand.

I have blasted insecure thoughts/feeling out of me, it's taken time, and a lot of personal reflection/growth, but I've done it. Other than the occasional AA, when it comes to women, I very rarely get insecure thoughts. If I randomly got into a conversation with my dream 10, my anxiety level would just be as if I was talking to a 4, not there. There's a cause and effect to all of this. Like I explained before, if you inherently are secure, then, because of this, you will naturally be more confident, relaxed, etc, when dealing with women. Also, as I've explained before, if I ever told any of the women I date that they couldn't hang out with another man, then they would look at me sideways. They'd probably laugh. Why? Because that's not who I am. I don't get jealous, I don't fear women I'm dating cheating. I just don't. If they do, they do, that's life, and I'll move on. But I don't worry about it. And, because of this (cause and effect), they see some type of inner strength in me or some ****, so they become even more attracted to me. Therefore....they don't cheat. See that? They get rid of the threats, on their own. They don't want to cheat.

On that note, I don't walk around with my eyes closed either, I don't look the other way. I see what's going on. When they say something, I hear it for what it is. When they do something, I interpret it for what it is. 90% (or whatever) of communication is non-verbal, and this is especially true for women. I guess, through experience, failing & succeeding, I've figured some of these things out. But still, that's just piece of the pie. If I'm in an exclusive relationship with a woman, and she does do something that goes against what I feel is okay behavior, it doesn't mean I have to sit there and take it. Fvck no. But, other than an occasional $hit test here and there, once I go exclusive with them, they very rarely, if ever, do anything to jeopardize the relationship.

It's a mindset, like you said. Nothing good, from what I can tell, comes from a MAN being jealous or insecure. Therefore I just don't get jealous or insecure, and at the very least, I don't act like it. And any type of behavior that I perceive is jealousy or insecurity, I therefore don't do it. It's not who I am. I physically can't do. Even if I tried, I couldn't get the words out of my mouth.

Exception made a great post on the matter. However, in this guy's case, it was too late.

Originally Posted by TheException

Let me get this straight......you are jealous of a 40 yr co-worker because he gets to have drinks and food for work with your girlfriend?

What are you gonna do pal? Tell her to quit her job because you cant get over this? Look man, your insecure reaction is exactly what drives attraction into the ground. Act aloof and quit giving a sh1t....

Hes snapping photos.....while your snapping her legs in the bedroom. Start acting like the prize in this relationship.

Of course you have to take into account there are some girls who would respect a man for setting boundaries whilst some would perceive a man to be weak if he did not so this argument isn't really a clear cut case.

This part could go with my response to In2theGame. I think there are women who do need a man to set boundaries for them. Yes, they need someone to keep them in line. And, therefore, when someone does, set boundaries for them, they do feel attracted to them. However, like I said, I think these are the type of women you should not get into an exclusive relationship with, they're damaged in some way, and also, these are the type of women that will cheat on you, eventually, when you're not around to enforce these boundaries. There are exceptions to every rule, but this is my opinion.

 

[In2theGame]

Long story short: You told her not to have guy friends, but she still did. When you found out, you still stayed with her. Then she stopped having guy friends, but proceeded to cheat on you. So, you're saying she cheated on you once she finally abided by your boundaries and stopped having guy friends?

Has guy friends---->doesn't cheat

Gets rid of guy friends---->cheats

This correct?

Breaking it down further, I talked about this in another thread, if she's not allowed to have guy friends, then, when she continues to do so, you have to leave. There is no other option for you.



But you stayed, even though you previously told her you would go. She perceived that as beta.

No, I told her I would not stay around if she had guy friends or else I was out. So like i stated in my previous post, When a guy friend called her cell phone one night. I stood by my statement and i started getting dressed to leave and never look back. When I was leaving, she begged me to stay. got on her knees and pleaded to tell me not to go. This was at the beginning of the relationship. All other guys were cut off. Every single one of them. After a few years together i began getting loose with the "boundaries". Letting her speak and hang out with male friends. That showed that i wasnt insecure right? That i wasnt controlling also? I mean after all, im all secure in myself and she loves me so i dont have to worry about it because i'm "alpha". What it did was open the door to letting her think that its OK for her to hang out with male friends. After all they are "JUST FRIENDS". Little by little, yes i did become beta by just letting her do what she wanted until 5 years in... I was no longer the strong masculine man that set boundaries and she ended up leaving me and cheating with one of her male friends. Even at the end of the relationship she asked me how come I didnt put her in her place anymore. She was right, I turned beta by letting her do whatever.

So because she said she liked it when you put her in her place does that mean it was good for the long term? Do women say they like it when you buy them diamonds? Just sayin.

The women who im talking about telling me that they like when i put them in their place are still texting me and asking me to fvck them till this day. These are HB8's and up. Women love a guy who is not afraid to keep them in check. I'll tell you about this one time... One of my plates is a very hot... long blonde hair, blue eyes with a nice face and body.... I was over her place with 3 of her female friends there. I was the only guy in the room. I over heard her tell her female friends that she keeps me being a "good boy"... Did i laugh? no, Did i brush it off and act aloof by play it cool? No... I got up from my seat and grabbed my jacket and said standing in front of all of them... "You want to repeat that statement? because i have no problem walking out that door" They all looked at me in shock but guess what... she came running to sit on my lap and telling me that she was only joking. Yea...Thats what i fvcking thought. I could see her friends jealousy through their faces because they had no man. Maybe it works for me because i have that presence of being very muscular but it still stands.. Women LOVE a man who lays the hammer down and wont be moved. Ive come across so many who love it. ESPECIALLY the hot ones because most men are too pvssy to get rough with hot women in fear they will turn her off. I agree with something Danger said earlier that sometimes you have to undo all that BS from women who are used to beta men letting them do whatever they want.


This is just my take, everyone has their own beliefs on what they think they should do and act but from my experience and many of my friends experiences, Women need to be kept in check when it calls for it.

 

[Soolaimon]

Say you're exclusive with a girl. You've been together for a year and the relationship has carried on swimmingly. Not a single problem since the day you two met. She just gets it. The two of you are on a date at a restaurant one night, and she begins to text a friend. This upsets you, and she takes notice. What does the anti-boundary crew do in this situation? Do they dump her right there on the spot, because setting boundaries is "pointless" and texting during dinner is reprehensible enough that the relationship must be terminated immediately? Or do they draw a bou...

Any behavior the anti-boundary crowd finds disagreeable but not worth ending the relationship over, puts them in a bind - either allow the bad behavior to carry on and stack up, dump her for something petty like texting at dinner (because you have a point to make over at sosuave that you're anti-boundary 'til the day you die), or communicate your displeasure (overtly or covertly, with words or with a scowl) and welcome to the boundary crew you renegade you.

Here is another false projecting statement coming from the boundary crew.

They have no clue what they are talking about.

I already had a discussion with a boundary crew member over this same scenario.

If you set a boundary of no texting on a date with your woman and she pulls out her phone and starts texting your only choice is to dump her on the spot.

She clearly violated your boundary of no texting on a date.

If you don't enforce your boundary of dumping her she broke your boundary with ease and she will know you aren't serious about doing what you say.

That's why women lose respect for weak men hiding behind boundaries that are afraid to do anything about it.

Women will test you and your boundaries and when they can see you aren't up to the task you are exposed and they go looking for a new man.

What they do is filter out for girls with different values and communicates your expectations. Of course she could still cheat, but I would argue that you have filtered for women who are less likely to cheat.

The vast majority of taken girls I fvked had many male friends they would "date". It's just who they are.

I don't believe you fvked any taken girls at all.

If you ever did you would know there is no such thing as a "filter" for boundaries for women with "different values".

Women are emotional and illogical.

What they think is good at the moment they will think something is better the next moment.

When she is into you in the moment she will agree to "your terms".

When she is not she will cheat. There is no filter for that.

If you fvked any taken women at all you would know how easy it is to play women especially when you have more value than her boyfriend.

You would know how easy it is for them cheat on their men when they know they are getting something better.

You would know that there is no "filter" for a boundary for that months later.

You would also know that women have already had insecure men put boundaries on them and know how to get around them when the insecure man sets them.

Thats how I know boundaries are useless and a of waste of time.

I've fvked taken women who broke them with ease.

You argue for boundaries thinking they work.

That's how I know you never fvked any taken women.

If you actually did you wouldn't put all your faith in useless boundaries cause you would know they don't work from all the "taken women you fvked".

You are scared of losing your woman to other men so you contain her to a boundary cause I believe you were cheated on before and you are scared of it happening again.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

No, I told her I would not stay around if she had guy friends or else I was out. So like i stated in my previous post, When a guy friend called her cell phone one night. I stood by my statement and i started getting dressed to leave and never look back. When I was leaving, she begged me to stay. got on her knees and pleaded to tell me not to go. This was at the beginning of the relationship.

I understand this^. She begged your forgivness, and you gave it to her.

See what I'm saying. You told her you would leave if she ever had guy friends, she had guy friends. Did you leave? No. She convinced you to stay.

That was easy for her.

She controlled you.

It was weakness on your part.

Do you see?

What you did there caused serious damage to your frame.

All other guys were cut off. Every single one of them. After a few years together i began getting loose with the "boundaries". Letting her speak and hang out with male friends.

So this whole time she wanted to hang out with male "friends", which were actually guys she wanted to bang.

You should have dumped her. In all reality, you should never have been with her in the first place.

Not every girl wants to hang out with guy friends once they get into a relationship. Maybe you should find one of those.

That showed that i wasnt insecure right? That i wasnt controlling also?

No, it showed you picked the wrong woman.

I mean after all, im all secure in myself and she loves me so i dont have to worry about it because i'm "alpha".

Right, you shouldn't worry. SHE is the one that fvcked up. Not you. It's her problem, she doesn't have you anymore.

What it did was open the door to letting her think that its OK for her to hang out with male friends. After all they are "JUST FRIENDS". Little by little, yes i did become beta by just letting her do what she wanted until 5 years in... I was no longer the strong masculine man that set boundaries and she ended up leaving me and cheating with one of her male friends.

I agree that losing your frame can lower attraction, turning into a beta can send her vagina running for the hills. However, which a lot of guys can't seem to wrap their head around, you can have a strong frame, you can be masculine, without setting boundaries. Yes, I do believe in putting a girl in her place when deserved, calling them out when needed. Or just laughing at it, and going your own way for a while.

It's hard for me to believe, that after 5 years, the only reason she banged other dudes is because you didn't enforce your boundaries. If that's the case, then yes, like I alluded to earlier, I believe you were with the wrong woman.

Even at the end of the relationship she asked me how come I didnt put her in her place anymore. She was right, I turned beta by letting her do whatever.

Like I said earlier, I let my women do whatever, however it doesn't mean I'm going to be at home waiting for them after they're done doing whatever. I don't put up with $hitty behavior, they recognize that, and respect that. And it further builds their attraction for me. But again, they're free to do what they want, but at this point in the game, what they WANT to do is be with me.

What happens, in your scenario, when you go out of town and leave her behind for the weekend? After banging some dude, is she going to say it's because you weren't there to put her in her place?

The women who im talking about telling me that they like when i put them in their place are still texting me and asking me to fvck them till this day. These are HB8's and up. Women love a guy who is not afraid to keep them in check.

I can see this. Doesn't mean you want to wife these chicks up though.

I'll tell you about this one time... One of my plates is a very hot... long blonde hair, blue eyes with a nice face and body.... I was over her place with 3 of her female friends there. I was the only guy in the room. I over heard her tell her female friends that she keeps me being a "good boy"... Did i laugh? no, Did i brush it off and act aloof by play it cool? No... I got up from my seat and grabbed my jacket and said standing in front of all of them... "You want to repeat that statement? because i have no problem walking out that door" They all looked at me in shock but guess what... she came running to sit on my lap and telling me that she was only joking. Yea...Thats what i fvcking thought. I could see her friends jealousy through their faces because they had no man. Maybe it works for me because i have that presence of being very muscular but it still stands.. Women LOVE a man who lays the hammer down and wont be moved. Ive come across so many who love it. ESPECIALLY the hot ones because most men are too pvssy to get rough with hot women in fear they will turn her off.

$hit tests, and you passed. However you're comparing this to boundaries. Did you tell her at the beginning of the relationship to never call you a "good boy"? Of course you didn't. Why not? Because it's ridiculous to do so.

This is just my take, everyone has their own beliefs on what they think they should do and act but from my experience and many of my friends experiences, Women need to be kept in check when it calls for it.

I get your take. And I do believe women need to be kept in check at times. However, as I've said (my beliefs), is that boundaries are not the way. There are other ways.

Like I said earlier, you could have saved 5 years of your life with that woman if you didn't set boundaries from the beginning. If you're going to set boundaries, then there's no coming back from that. You will have to enforce them until year 50. And once you get lax, they will see a window, and take it. Whether or not they would have cheated from the beginning is irrelevant at this point. You have kept that door closed to that mysterious other world. They didn't close that door, you did. And, because you closed it, they've been curious and thinking about it ever since.

 

[TheException]

So how do you handle behavior that you find disagreeable but not worthy of ending a LTR over?

Depends.

1)Withdraw attention

2)Thunderbolt

There is a wide range of "unacceptable behavior" and each requires a different response. Withdrawing attention from a woman is usually most effective because it's communicating in a language she understands.

Right, and if it continues on through the duration of the date, each time effectively tuning you out? Just sit there and "take it like a man"?

What are we even talking about here? Her texting while on a dinner date?

Well then....good, allows me time to catch up with some of my buddies then. I'm unsure why you are trying to paint the picture that I would be forced to either break up with her or "take it like a man"....as if those are the only two options in your world.

 

[KingBeef]

I think Danger is right on when he mentions that women "hang" around guys (whether accumulating orbiters for her own benefit or a possible plate down the line).

There is so much grey area that you have to consider. She could also quite possibly be nonchalantly dating/hanging with a guy and not even be aware of logically what she is doing :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

That's why you setup boundaries early on if she asks you to be exclusive with you for an ltr Otherwise if I knew she was "hanging" with someone else, id either demote her to an f*ckbuddy or get rid of her...depending how hot she was and how many plates I'm spinning....

 

[greg z newengland]

i didnt study for my test and got an f and cause of i didnt get into harvard. it sucks. i got an f in every subject.

 

[sylvester the cat]

I don't think you understand.

I have blasted insecure thoughts/feeling out of me, it's taken time, and a lot of personal reflection/growth, but I've done it.

But would you be happy/secure knowing that your girl is hanging around other guys? If not then this is the definition of insecurity.

 

[sylvester the cat]

• We object to something because it does not meet our standards.
• It does not meet our standards because it does not make us happy.
• It does not make us happy because it demonstrates a lack of consideration for the relationship.
• It demonstrates a lack of consideration for the relationship because it displays potential impropriety.
• It displays potential impropriety because many men will mistake her intentions.

In other words because of this potential impropriety, you would not feel happy/secure in the knowledge that your girl is hanging around with other men. You would feel insecure about this potential impropriety.

This is the starting point of both the anti and pro boundaries.

 

[sylvester the cat]

1)Withdraw attention

2)Thunderbolt

.

^ Boundaries are being set through these actions albeit passive aggressively.

Both the anti's and pro's are in full agreement about setting boundaries - one group (anti) sets them passive aggressively and covertly whereas the other (pro) sets them aggressively and overtly.

 

[TheException]

^ Boundaries are being set through these actions albeit passive aggressively.

Both the anti's and pro's are in full agreement about setting boundaries - one group (anti) sets them passive aggressively and covertly whereas the other (pro) sets them aggressively and overtly.

Exactly

Let me ask you something.....do women understand(respond to) overt or covert communication? There you find the answer to whether verbally telling women about "boundaries" is effective or not.

 

[sylvester the cat]

Exactly

Let me ask you something.....do women understand(respond to) overt or covert communication? There you find the answer to whether verbally telling women about "boundaries" is effective or not.

I think this will depend on the individual. Some women might need boundaries to be spelled out to them whereas others might not. Likewise some men might feel the need to spell it out whereas some might not. Horses for courses.

I might add that if you have to spell out to a girl what is and what isn't acceptable in a relationship then you're possibly already on troubled ground. But also having said that 'man friends' is a bit of a grey area. What if the friend was from way back like in school or something...could you really realistically expect her to give him up for you? Overt boundaries here might also be cause for trouble in the relationship.

 

[sylvester the cat]

Calling it "insecurity" implies that one lacks confidence and would be ok with it if I were "secure". .

Not at all. It is totally understandable that a man might not feel secure in the knowledge that his girlfriend is hanging with other men.

Being secure/insecure isn't an either/or condition. It comes in ebbs and flows. Right now you might feel secure sitting in your comfort zone but if I were to dangle you over the edge of the Grand Canyon you might suddenly not feel so secure and for good reason.

Insecurity isn't something to be ashamed of. They exist in any given moment to remind us of our own personal boundaries and limitations. They should be embraced and recognised for what they are.

Too strong and these insecurities debilitate us. Too weak and we leave ourselves open to danger. Perhaps the same could be said for relationships and their boundaries.

I know I can easily replace my gf even with one younger than her and as attractive.

Why don't you then?

 

[TheException]

I might add that if you have to spell out to a girl what is and what isn't acceptable in a relationship then you're possibly already on troubled ground.

Right again Slyvester

But also having said that 'man friends' is a bit of a grey area. What if the friend was from way back like in school or something...could you really realistically expect her to give him up for you? Overt boundaries here might also be cause for trouble in the relationship.

You answered your own "gray area".

Unlike what the CWAFs say....women can indeed hang out with men without it having to always be sexual. In fact most women use men for attention. Was there ever a time you had a crush on a girl and thought it was going somewhere.....then she brought up some alpha guy that was pumping and dumping her?

With the majority of cases there is nothing to fear. Fear IS the enemy.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

But would you be happy/secure knowing that your girl is hanging around other guys? If not then this is the definition of insecurity.

Secure? Yes. Happy? Sure. BECAUSE, if she were to hang out with 'other guys', then they would be guys that were no threat to the relationship. I have screened her, before going exclusive with her. Therefore, I know she knows the difference, and I already know she's not going to do anything to jeopardize the relationship. If she does do something to jeopardize it, then I will take appropriate action.

Let things work there course. You can't control women 24/7. Therefore, I make sure they can control themselves.

Example:
I was working graveyard shift on the weekend. Earlier that day, I was hanging out with a plate. Plate tells me that since I'm going to be working that night, she's going go out with her single girlfriend, and one of their long time guy friends to a club/bar. I say cool. Later, as I'm leaving (after laying it down of course) I say: "have fun tonight, I'll talk to you tomorrow." Later, she goes out to club/bar, and even though I told her I'd talk to her tomorrow, she texts me throughout . Then, afterwards, she ends up bringing me food, and hanging out with me at work. Even though, in all reality, I was 100% fine with the time to myself. I was actually doing her a favor, she WANTED to be with me.

Does that all makes sense?

In all honesty, I actually wanted her to go have fun without me. SHE was getting too close for a plate, where, at that time, I was trying to keep her. But she still showed me that she could be a good girlfriend.

Don't worry, be happy.

There will always other guys around them...somewhere. At work, at the gym. GNO's..... Old guy friends they used to know.... they're orbiting out there SOMEWHERE.

What about when she go's on an innocent trip to the supermarket on a Tuesday night, and some PUA is hanging in the shadows, ready to pounce?

You can't "keep her way" from every guy out there.

But when a woman does cheat, why did she cheat? Is it because of the man they are with, or is it simply because the woman is just a cheater? I'd say a combination of both.

Screen for a good woman, then be a MAN in the relationship. If she still cheats, then that's her problem. Now you are free. And because you are a MAN, you'll have plenty of other women ready to open up their legs to you.

OVERT boundaries are a logical farce to keep insecure men secure. They are a TEMPORARY solution to keeping a woman faithful. Sooner or later, those boundaries aren't going to be worth the metaphorical paper they're written on. If she runs into the right guy, and has lost some attraction for you, those overt logic based boundaries are going to go right out the window.

Be SECURE. Your relationships will be a lot healthier and happier that way.

 

[Newby 15]

But also having said that 'man friends' is a bit of a grey area. What if the friend was from way back like in school or something...could you really realistically expect her to give him up for you? Overt boundaries here might also be cause for trouble in the relationship.

If you don't trust her why bother? Girls aren't going to give up male friends they've known their whole life.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Not sure if you've got us/me figured out. However, although maybe not a truly accurate synopsis, I guess I can appreciate you referring to me as a "PUA" who's red pill. :flowers:

Does anyone actually know any HB7+ western women who had no guy friends that they hung out with when you met them?

Eh, that ones tough to say. I don't always find out who their friends are. In LTR's I do, but still, I think some of these 'friends' were just temporary attention providers, only used when another Man isn't around. So once I get into the picture, those friends just aren't there anymore. There's a few that have kept them around. And, also, like I've said, they were betas that were, for the most part, being used for something.

I think some of us are just living a different reality than others. Women thriving on male attention is a maxim of this site. Women somehow intuitively knowing right from wrong, never having double standards, and never playing jealousy games or sh1t tests by way of actual or potential male friends is simply not my reality.

I've seen this plenty. All of it. However, when it does happen, it's usually at the beginning of a relationship pre-exclusivity. But once they see that Jealousy doesn't work on you, and you pass her other $hit tests. The women will figure out rather quickly that there's no point in playing those games with YOU. She will realize you truly are a MAN, her childish bull $hit does nothing to you, except possibly the opposite of what she expected it would do: it repels you. Not saying ALL $hit tests or games will go out the window. But, like I've been saying all along, if you just don't care who she hangs out with. And instead, take it from a stance as you are testing her by who she hangs out with, then she'll realize all her games that work with other guys, actually backfire when she tries to play them with YOU. You're not obligated to spend time with her. She hangs out with some dude you feel is a threat(remember, some men aren't threats though ), fine, back away from the relationship. It's good that she did that, she SHOWED you she's not taking the relationship seriously. Games or not, in an exclusive perspective, you're not going to stand for it, it's a turn-off for you.

She calls the next day:
You: Hey you
Her: You want to hang out tonight.
You: Sorry, I can't.
Her: Oh, okay....
You: I'll call you some other time.

All of your statements being in a happy, no fvcks given voice. SHE CANNOT EFFECT YOU. Does this makes sense? NOTHING she can do or say can bother you. Her attraction will, in turn, sky rocket. If it doesn't, so be it, whatever. Point being---> You are a MAN, who cannot be swayed or manipulated by her pettiness. Though, in all honesty, us men do have emotions/feelings somewhere, so I'd be stone cold lying if I said I could pull this off 100% of the time. But you get the point, right?

Women becoming mother theresa for life just becausd you make their pvssy super wet during the honeymoon phase is not reality.

I don't know about mother theresa, but women will change for YOU. Yes they will. If they're highly attracted to you, they will lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, fight....for YOU. I don't necessarily want a girl who will do all those things just because they like someone, but, again, you get the point, right?

Some Immigrant women and HB5 and below who are not like this though, maybe that is skewing the analysis for some of you?

No. Women are Women. Hypergamy aside, in all reality, they WANT one man. Deep down, they're searching for "the one", and once they find him, they will do everything in their power to please him...figuratively speaking, of course.

What's sort of interesting is that the three anti-boundaries people have such wildly different perspectives. Exception is typical blue pill. P+V and Sooli are red pill about the nature of women. I will call P+Vs orientation "PUA" and Sooli's "MGTOW".

Interesting, but I'm 99% sure Exception's red pill, and I also wouldn't consider myself a PUA by nature, my 'style' comes more from an internalize game: Indirect approach i.e. just starting up a conversation, not using canned openers. Acting, being a certain way, which will naturally attract women. Doing something not because it will attract her, but because that's what a MAN would do, therefore it naturally attracts her. Makes sense? Doing things because I want to do them, if she comes along, she comes along, if not...so what. Again, Disclaimer: I'm by no means a perfect man in this regard, I do 'fvck up'...but it's a lot less than even a few years ago.

I dont believe P+Vs insecurity argument makes sense but I do believe that that is because his life experiences must WILDLY differ from the rest of us. So when he makes a statement like this: I can make a few assumptions. #1 Might not be "married" to the idea if monogamy and probably spinning plates himself.

Monogomy's fine, so is being single. Either one is virtually the same to me. If I get into an exclusive relationship, that's cool. If I become 'single', that's cool too. At one point in my life, I was searching for 'the one', in doing so, through outcome dependence I feel I re-tracted some potentially quality women----> which is the foundation for worry, insecurity, nervousness, fear, etc. It's much better being free of those things when dealing with a woman.

#2 Different concept of self respect, to be kind.

Not exactly sure what you mean here. But yes, self-respect is key when dealing with women.

#3 Never fvcked girls with bfs

I have. But I don't actively pursue them. If they pursue me, eh, case by case. In that sense, I take it as a: "if not me, someone else" stance. That may just be a guise to help me sleep at night, but it's still pretty rare that I'll sleep with someone who's already in a committed relationship.

#4 Never cheated on.

Not that I know of.

#5 Not dating desireable women

I've dated plenty of desirable women, I've also dated some that were "beneath me", I've also dated 'sluts', 'good girls', older women, younger women. Been a glorified dildo for some, been the love of their life for a few others. I've been around, bro.

#6 only dates unicorns. I believe the philisophical differences based on experiential differences are so vast that there can be no real reconciliation...he cannot understand us monogamous men that date desireable non-unicorn western women without the plate-spinning safety net , and that seems apparent.

I understand the plate-spinning safety net. If I'm 'exclusive', I may still have other options out there somewhere, but I'm not actively spinning plates. I'm exclusive. However, one of the main concepts preached on here, is that you need to be able to walk away. You have to be able to. You can't put yourself into a compromising situation where you have no other choice than to bend your will, hand over your balls, or change who you truly are, just to make it 'work'. You can go full boar 100% commital, but you still have to be able to turn your back on it all, at the drop of a hat. You can invest yourself fully, but understand that you may lose your investment. Win some, lose some. Oh well, that's life, it goes on.