What is this "taxation is theft" meme I read from american users on twitter?

[Millard Fillmore]

It is not force, you have the choice to leave. Many do. Living in such countries, are agreeing to contribute to society. If taxes are voluntary the whole thing doesn’t work.

I'm simply talking about staying and choosing not to pay taxes. Laws are ultimately enforced by bayonet. As far as I know compulsory taxation exists in every country.

 

[Dr.Suave]

5 pages. Cool. I always remember this scene from Parks and Recreation:

“This is your lunch,” Ron says to Lauren as he empties her lunchbox onto the table.
“Now, you should be able to do whatever you want to with this, right?”
Lauren nods.
“… But here I come, the government,” Ron says, picking up her sandwich and chomping into it. “And I get to take 40% of your lunch,” he says as he shoves a handful of her chips into his mouth and washes it all down with a slurp from her juice box.
“And that, Lauren, is how taxes work,” Ron concludes.

 

[EyeBRollin]

5 pages. Cool. I always remember this scene from Parks and Recreation:

“This is your lunch,” Ron says to Lauren as he empties her lunchbox onto the table.
“Now, you should be able to do whatever you want to with this, right?”
Lauren nods.
“… But here I come, the government,” Ron says, picking up her sandwich and chomping into it. “And I get to take 40% of your lunch,” he says as he shoves a handful of her chips into his mouth and washes it all down with a slurp from her juice box.
“And that, Lauren, is how taxes work,” Ron concludes.

It is an incredibly silly and disingenuous analogy. Lauren didn’t grow or hunt for her food. Someone else did it for her. She bought the groceries in the market. More accurate would be, “this is my cut for building the infrastructure- the water that allowed that food to be grown, the roads that allowed it to be delivered to the market, and that you drove your soccer mom wagon vehicle on go buy.”

 

[AttackFormation]

It is an incredibly silly and disingenuous analogy. Lauren didn’t grow or hunt for her food. Someone else did it for her. She bought the groceries in the market. More accurate would be, “this is my cut for building the infrastructure- the water that allowed that food to be grown, the roads that allowed it to be delivered to the market, and that you drove your soccer mom wagon vehicle on go buy.”

I doubt the kind of person who really believes that analogy has the brain capacity to understand what youre saying, honestly.

 

[Pandora]

I doubt the kind of person who really believes that analogy has the brain capacity to understand what youre saying, honestly.

Thats an ad hominem Attack lol. I know it sounds radical what we are suggesting but its not. Homo sapiens have been tax free for way longer than they have been tax slaves. Govt and taxes are a very recent invention.

The Amish dont really have a tax system within their community ( virtually none). They all come together and build houses together. They all work together using labor to build what they need. By your logic they are stupid. They obviously dont have the brain capacity to understand that they need to force each other at the point of a gun to pay money to a govt.

Taxes are the reason that this forum even exists. Taxes are the reason that women and men cant get along. All of the gender war stuff directly relate back to govt and taxes. Wake up brother.

 

[Pandora]

It is an incredibly silly and disingenuous analogy. Lauren didn’t grow or hunt for her food. Someone else did it for her. She bought the groceries in the market. More accurate would be, “this is my cut for building the infrastructure- the water that allowed that food to be grown, the roads that allowed it to be delivered to the market, and that you drove your soccer mom wagon vehicle on go buy.”

You act like people were not surviving before taxes. For 99.9% of human history we did fine without taxes. Wow you just like giving your money to big daddy govt. You must work for the govt.

People have the ability to come together and pool labor without needing a central govt to force them to do so.

During Katrina was the govt forcing civilians to help each other out? Come on man lol

 

[EyeBRollin]

You act like people were not surviving before taxes. For 99.9% of human history we did fine without taxes. Wow you just like giving your money to big daddy govt. You must work for the govt.

People have the ability to come together and pool labor without needing a central govt to force them to do so.

During Katrina was the govt forcing civilians to help each other out? Come on man lol

No, I do not “act like people didn’t survive before taxes.” You are the one that finds issue with paying taxes. Sounds like you think human civilization was better before modern infrastructure. That is where I disagree.

You also seem to think societies thrive when central planning needs are met only on citizen’s own volition. Frankly, that is delusional.

 

[Pandora]

No, I do not “act like people didn’t survive before taxes.” You are the one that finds issue with paying taxes. Sounds like you think human civilization was better before modern infrastructure. That is where I disagree.

You also seem to think societies thrive when central planning needs are met only on citizen’s own volition. Frankly, that is delusional.

So the Amish are suffering?

 

[Pandora]

Btw life was not nasty, brutish and short before civilization. That is a widespread myth. On the contrary, life was much more chill. Life expectancy was long and people were healthier. The only downside was that infant mortality was very high.

There is a reason that every tribal communitiy ever had to be forcibly civilized. The tribes were not stupid. They knew civilization and taxes were a bad deal.

From the German barbarian tribes to the Zulu tribes of South Africa they all knew that civilization was the devil.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

It is an incredibly silly and disingenuous analogy. Lauren didn’t grow or hunt for her food. Someone else did it for her. She bought the groceries in the market. More accurate would be, “this is my cut for building the infrastructure- the water that allowed that food to be grown, the roads that allowed it to be delivered to the market, and that you drove your soccer mom wagon vehicle on go buy.”

That's why it's an analogy. The food obviously wasn't literally created by Lauren. It symbolizes the resources earned (capital) via labor by the worker. Once the resources have been earned (but before they've been paid), the government takes its portion. Then the prol can save or spend. If s/he spends, the government again takes a cut. If it's invested, the government will also take a cut of ROI. Finally once the worker dies and leaves resources to the living, the government takes another cut. "Declare the pennies on your eyes" as the Beatles said.

Where the analogy doesn't hold up is that the worker will enjoy some of the fruits of taxation such as infrastructure and security. Nevertheless it's involuntary and inefficient, and the more inefficient, the more time that is stolen from the working man. (Money earned is simply time monetized.)

Not saying it's good or bad. Where I live they do a great job reinvesting in the public well being. Taxes are just a fact of life anyway, I don't think they're going away anytime soon.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Btw life was not nasty, brutish and short before civilization. That is a widespread myth. On the contrary, life was much more chill. Life expectancy was long and people were healthier. The only downside was that infant mortality was very high.

If you think life overall was better prior to modern civilization, that’s your opinion. Too far gone.

 

[Pandora]

If you think life overall was better prior to modern civilization, that’s your opinion. Too far gone.

Yeh I agree with you on that one. I dont see us turning the clock back anytime soon. Actually technically the USA is slowly collapsing back into tribalism and that might be a good thing. Civilization is unsustainable.

Most of the social ill's we see today ( feminism, lack of masculinity, loneliness, depression, obesity etc) is a consequence of not living a more natural lifestyle.

Feminism and female degradation is in direct proportion to the amount of civilization that is present in a society. Women dont feel like they have a purpose. This is because in modernity they dont have a purpose. Technology turns women into replicas of men. Technology basically turns everyone into androgenous units.

There is a reason why the Mennonites, the Amish and the aboriginal tribes dont have any of the gender war nonsense that we have. They also dont have a depression or loneliness epidemic.

I now understand why the Luddites and the Amish eschew technology and civilization.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Where the analogy doesn't hold up is that the worker will enjoy some of the fruits of taxation such as infrastructure and security. Nevertheless it's involuntary and inefficient, and the more inefficient, the more time that is stolen from the working man. (Money earned is simply time monetized.)

How is it inefficient?

Laura lacks the resources, skill, knowledge, and time of to obtain each of those food ingredients together herself. It is incredibly efficient that she can get into her vehicle (built by others), drive on a paved road (organized and funded by “big government”), and go to a market where she can quickly pick out those ingredients. All can be done in less than one hour. Many of said ingredients are not even native to where she lives.

 

[Pandora]

How is it inefficient?

Laura lacks the resources, skill, knowledge, and time of to obtain each of those food ingredients together herself. It is incredibly efficient that she can get into her vehicle (built by others), drive on a paved road (organized and funded by “big government”), and go to a market where she can quickly pick out those ingredients. All can be done in less than one hour. Many of said ingredients are not even native to where she lives.

Its inefficient because the middle man is the govt bureaucracy. They always get a big cut that they waste.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Its inefficent because the middle man is the govt beauracracy. They always get a big cut that they waste.

How is that food getting to her house?

 

[Pandora]

How is that food getting to her house?

Ask the Amish how they get food to each others houses. Ask them how they build the houses actually.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Ask the Amish how they get food to each others houses. Ask them how they build the houses actually.

I am aware. Why haven’t you joined their community?

 

[Pandora]

I am aware. Why haven’t you joined their community?

They wont let me. Aint no black Amish. Ima put rims on the horse buggy.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

How is it inefficient?

Laura lacks the resources, skill, knowledge, and time of to obtain each of those food ingredients together herself. It is incredibly efficient that she can get into her vehicle (built by others), drive on a paved road (organized and funded by “big government”), and go to a market where she can quickly pick out those ingredients. All can be done in less than one hour. Many of said ingredients are not even native to where she lives.

I suppose the counter argument would be those are provided by the specialization of labor in the marketplace, not by the government. Even the roads are paved by contracted private companies.

However it's tough to imagine a system of competing highways, subways, or sewer systems, so some things are better left delegated within the public sector. The NYC subway shows this - two different private companies competed back in the day and the IRT lines had/has smaller tubes and trains as a result. Pretty dumb move lol.

 

[AttackFormation]

Thats an ad hominem Attack lol. I know it sounds radical what we are suggesting but its not. Homo sapiens have been tax free for way longer than they have been tax slaves. Govt and taxes are a very recent invention.

The Amish dont really have a tax system within their community ( virtually none). They all come together and build houses together. They all work together using labor to build what they need. By your logic they are stupid. They obviously dont have the brain capacity to understand that they need to force each other at the point of a gun to pay money to a govt.

Taxes are the reason that this forum even exists. Taxes are the reason that women and men cant get along. All of the gender war stuff directly relate back to govt and taxes. Wake up brother.

Yeah i think we were talking abnout different things. I agree that taxes are not necessary if you have a different social model, but as long as we live in the current model, we need taxation for things to get done properly.