What does Marriage offer to a man today???

[Mr.Positive]

I just thought to myself, hey I love this woman and she's my best friend..... I'm going to ask her.

I was "ready" for it though, had I met the right woman. I really wasn't nervous at all about it. I knew for me that "the married life" was probably going to be my preference. No regrets 14 years later (and counting).

Azanon, this is where your advise can really help single men who are considering marriage. You have a successful marriage, where a lot of men (mostly AFC's) have failed at it.

Most of my married friends are total AFC's. Some have successful marriages, some do not, however that doesn't change the fact that they are AFC's.

How did you know she was the right person? Was is just instinctive, or was there a lot of characteristics involved? How did you know you were "ready"?

 

[bigjohnson]

That's a great point bigjohnson. But there's a catch to it though..the way marriages are today. A woman can take your kids away from you if she feels like it. Your sons and daughters, in the eyes of the law, are not yours...they are hers. A bold statement for sure, but a scary harsh reality.

Very true, which is why I would be extremely hesitant to marry a westernized woman.

 

[Vulpine]

I'm in the same boat. The funny thing is that I'm damn near 100% sure that the woman that would knock my socks off enough for me to consider marriage would be a woman who wouldn't feel it would be necessary for us to get married in order to prove our commitment to one another. Does such a woman even exist? The search continues...

Dude, dude, dude, DOOOOOD! Check it...

My current gf asked me on a road trip last night:

"Why do guys need to screw a variety of women?"

Uh, oh. Here we go!

I explained at length the biological programming, related to a little "us" issue because I understood her wºmªnese, then segued into other heavy, heavy topics just because this marriage crap was hot in my brain.

She asked how old I wanted to be when I had kids: "I'm past that point already. It would have been cool to have a kid when I was 16: My kids would be graduating high school in a couple years!" We discussed biological/health benefits of having kids earlier than later.

She asked if I even wanted kids: "Of course, you?"

Such and such, and I eventually led the conversation to some marriage law injustices and antiquities (much like chivalry is antique), to which she agreed, and on and on.

I was SHOCKED, SHOCKED at how progressive, fair, and in-tune this chick's views were with my own. I let her ramble on about "some chicks get married just to..." Man, it almost gave me a hard-on. I wish I had a tape recorder to play it back for you guys, seriously, it was that good. I had to smoke a cigarette afterwards.

I brought up being together benefits versus marriage benefits. The ring, the name change, the strength of the relationship... you can have those without a piece of paper saying "married". She brought up financial benefit concerns: insurance, taxes, bills, etc. To which I replied...

V: "We already split bills. You have to figure whether or not those other benefits are worth it short term if ultimately a man loses half in the end. I have to look out for myself first and foremost: my future, my goals, my well being."

GF: "Hmm... yeah." *quizzical look*

V: "As it is now with laws and such, marriage isn't a motivator to stay together. In fact, getting married is motivation for a woman to fail the relationship."

GF: "How so?"

V: "Think about it, suddenly the wife loses some bullsh¡t 'spark', files divorce, gets half, and kicks back poolside with a frosty piña colada yacking on the phone with a gang of dudes who want to get with her... while the dude is set back 15 years or more towards his goals and financial future and can't get laid to save his life because he's broke. Raw deal?"

GF: "You're right... You know, my mom signed a pre-nup when she married (so-and-so)."

V: "Really?"

GF: "Yeah. I'd sign a pre-nup."

V: "You would?"

GF: "Sure!"

V: *looking out window to hide the expression* "I'd include a fat clause in mine: if a chick ever got over XYZ pounds... cool, thanks, bye - no soup for you."

GF: :cuss:



I'm a little :nervous:. Can you say, "High IL" boys and girls?

So, I could live with this chick, give her a ring, have her change her last name... but not get married and "fake it" for a few years to put off inquiries and to see if she passes? Then in say 5 years, sign the paperwork?

Oooh... it's tempting.

She's been knocking my socks off, plus, she's very "anti-western". And, she doesn't really see a need to get married.

Yeah, Fd'A, I'd say they are out there.

 

[bigjohnson]

.... she's very "anti-western".

Odd that our civilization has managed to ruin family life in less than 50 years eh? Sounds like a very good catch you have there, a western woman with that mindset is probably less than 1 in 10, maybe 1 in 20, and when you start layering on the other requirements ... it ain't pretty.

 

[azanon]

How did you know she was the right person? Was is just instinctive, or was there a lot of characteristics involved?

Here's the defining thing I remember. I had dated a lot even by this point (I dated pretty heavy from age 16 on), so I felt like I had sampled the types of women out there; their pros and cons.

Anyway, what was different with her was that she became my buddy. Ok sure, we were having great sex too, but I had had great sex with other women in the past, so that wasn't it. I would notice, with her, I would want to tell her secrets I'd normally reserve only for my male buddies. We also could often tell what each other were thinking without even verbalizing it. I really felt 100% safe about being myself around her, because I knew she was in love with the real me.

By Sosuave standards, I had a lot of AFC in me at this point in my life. I would not have met her had it not been for my "Sanguine" friend. We were talking about women one day, and he asked me if i could have any woman (in the college i was at), who would I pick. I told him "that's easy ... see that girl up there in the (food) line in front of us.... I'd pick her.". So what did this prick do? He went and sat right next to her, forced a conversation and said here's my friend Azanon... Azanon meet (insert wife). The story continues, but that was the day I met her.

I knew I was never going to seveer my close, best friend relationship with her by my choice. I really had no option BUT to marry her. Anything other option just didn't make any sense at all.

I don't believe i'm at risk for divorce because we just define our lives too much now by who we are as one unit. I couldn't even conceive of severing that now, and I don't think she could either.

How did you know you were "ready"?

Just generally speaking, I knew I would have been open to marriage at the time if i had found the right woman.

Though hypotheticaly seeing how many different women I could screw might sound attractive, I knew that leading such a life would bring all kinds of hazards and concerns that I really just didn't want to deal with on a day-to-day basis. Though I am no longer religious, I agreed at this point (with Paul) that living a life of sexual decadance would have been more detrimental than positive to everything else I was trying to accomplish academicallly and professionally. I still don't totally reject this thought process despite the fact that such thinking is considered AFC here.

Since then, i have made a lot of strides in those areas of my life, and I would say for certain, having the stability in terms of the wife/relationship has provided a nice support during some rough times.

 

[Vulpine]

Sounds like a very good catch you have there, a western woman with that mindset is probably less than 1 in 10, maybe 1 in 20, and when you start layering on the other requirements ... it ain't pretty.

Yeah, those "other requirements" need a little work, hence the hesitation.

Oh, and to add another factor to the anomaly: we met in a bar.

:crazy:

 

[Vulpine]

Though I am no longer religious, I agreed at this point (with Paul) that living a life of sexual decadance would have been more detrimental than positive to everything else I was trying to accomplish academicallly and professionally. I still don't totally reject this thought process despite the fact that such thinking is considered AFC here.

I don't know about "AFC". Guys underestimate the time and effort that they expend towards "getting women". One of the largest benefits I can see for LTR/marriage is redirecting that time/effort/$$$ towards other goals.

You know, cross "women" of the "to do" list and get on to other pressing matters like buying a house, mowing the lawn, changing the oil, etc.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Guys kind of think WOMEN should think like them, though.

There's ALOT of factors at play here..

- Women have more family pressure to marry. A good mother/father relationship will embed the idea of marriage into her head more than most, and give her a different idea of what marriage is. Plus, if she's the SWEETHEART of the family, then it's only logical sense she'd want a big elaborate wedding. If she has female cousins or a sister that predates her, the % is near 100% she will want something traditional.

- Women aren't examining LAWS. And they're into feelings. They could careless if a man is screwed over, if her feelings are hurt or the children are hurt in the process. Not all women are like this, but mind you, they wear a DIFFERENT pair of goggles to view the world. They'd probably see us as selfish by just being on this site discussing such topics, b/c they don't FEEL good to talk about. At least from her perspective.

- Biological imperatives. If a woman's sole purpose is to bear children, and a man's is to sow his oats, then she'd naturally want to partner with someone for said children. Men primarily act as they do b/c of Testosterone, so we think seeding is normal and natural. Whereas, women have a womb, a uterus, and primarily feel like children are the driving force. Nature/life would be fallible if it didn't PUSH a woman to have children. "Nah, nature, thanks but no thanks. I'm not into pain, losing this great body, or marrying/shacking up with that loser. I think I'll lay off the kid thing."

Marriage would be fine if laws weren't at play to screw you, or you had an equally rich spouse who wouldn't NEED your shyt if you fail at being married. But there's a secondary element, a third partner in your MARITAL contract. Why people do it, I don't know. I'd much prefer God to recognize me as married and NOT sign anything, than SIGN something and have God not recognize me at all. At least with the first option, I'm doing it out of happiness, honor, pride, etc. The second option supposes I want to share my SHYT and get some nice freebie and tax exemptions. It's the religious/spiritual/emotional framework vs. the legal. With a true marriage, you put yourself and your marriage at the mercy of the legal system.



A-Unit

 

[azanon]

So, I could live with this chick, give her a ring, have her change her last name... but not get married and "fake it" for a few years to put off inquiries and to see if she passes? Then in say 5 years, sign the paperwork?

Just make sure and do your homework on common-law marriage sitpulations in your state. You could eventually be just as married as me, and not know it until its too late.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Dude, dude, dude, DOOOOOD! Check it...

...
She's been knocking my socks off, plus, she's very "anti-western". And, she doesn't really see a need to get married.

Yeah, Fd'A, I'd say they are out there.

:crackup: Vulpine, thanks for posting that. Not only did it have HUGE comedic value but also proves that if you explain things logically to some women, they'd get it (at least if their basic needs are met). They may be few and far between but at least some are out there. Sounds like you could be in a very good situation, congratulations!

 

[azanon]

:crackup: Vulpine, thanks for posting that. Not only did it have HUGE comedic value but also proves that if you explain things logically to some women, they'd get it (at least if their basic needs are met). They may be few and far between but at least some are out there. Sounds like you could be in a very good situation, congratulations!

I told him the same thing in so many words, privately. Sounds like it great being Vulpine at the moment!

 

[Vulpine]

Just make sure and do your homework on common-law marriage sitpulations in your state. You could eventually be just as married as me, and not know it until its too late.

Actually,

ACTUALLY...

I had brought it up previously in a conversation explaining an Aunt and "Uncle" of mine who are pretty much commonlaw married and very happy/functional. Dude stays home and fills the freezer, does odd jobs for side cash, keeps wood in the furnace and the grass cut (the heavy lifting); she goes off to work (pushing paper - light duty) during the day to keep the lights on. So, I was bouncing some ideas/scenarios off her (the lifestyle appeals to me) and it basically dropped with a big "Hmmm...."

Well, she actually mentioned in last night's conversation that she had spoken to her mother about "it" and blay-blay-blay. I think she got a dose of pressure and reality from her "divorced, then single and struggling with kid, then remarried to a guy who was a single father" mother. And, I think she got that dose of "ack-rite" when she called her mother crying because I dropped the hammer for her ill behavior. That is, I think mommy is reinforcing how I want her to act.

Anyway, sorry about hijacking the thread with the "Vulpine show". I know there is a lot of despair about "quality women" and the marriage/future/LTR business, along with "western women" complaints.

Training is the way! Since a man is leading anyway, they should lead a woman to, as A-unit put it, think like them. It is possible, instilling views and changing beliefs, especially in this chaotic time when many (especially women) lack firm convictions.

 

[azanon]

Training is the way! Since a man is leading anyway, they should lead a woman to, as A-unit put it, think like them. It is possible, instilling views and changing beliefs, especially in this chaotic time when many (especially women) lack firm convictions.

As ive stated a few times now, I've "trained" my woman in a lot of areas. Heck, she got up at 5am this morning and worked out an hour (i say... for me). Before i met her, she never worked out. I trained her to realize i flat out expect her to take care of herself because, if for no other reason, I take care of myself too. Just one example of many.

But there are limits with her. I know you will believe the limits are with me, but trust me.. its not. I'm a dam* crafy SOB and even I can't pull off warming her up to "some things", such as a few things you mentioned your gf is open to. With other women I know... that'd be no problem.

You just have the right woman for some of these things... it isn't so much your technique.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Actually,

ACTUALLY...

I had brought it up previously in a conversation explaining an Aunt and "Uncle" of mine who are pretty much commonlaw married and very happy/functional. Dude stays home and fills the freezer, does odd jobs for side cash, keeps wood in the furnace and the grass cut (the heavy lifting); she goes off to work (pushing paper - light duty) during the day to keep the lights on. So, I was bouncing some ideas/scenarios off her (the lifestyle appeals to me) and it basically dropped with a big "Hmmm...."

Gene Simmons and Shannon Tweed comes to mind. Not that Gene cuts the grass or anything, but he seems close to having the closest thing to living the DJ lifestyle while being in a committed, non-married, relationship. I'm pretty sure that Shannon would marry him in a heartbeat though.

 

[azanon]

My point is, if Gene and/or Vulpine's aunt/uncle are common law married, then the men in these relationships are just as legally vulnerable as I am being "officially" married. Common-law marriage is 100% legal marriage if your state has that.

Even for those just "living together", you expose yourself to all kinds of monetary risks should you break up. If money's are mixed, you have a mess. If one owns the house, the other owns furniture/paid for improvements.... can you say, legal nightmare (in the event of a separation). Heck, everything you paid for together, gifts, etc. all can be legally contested.

 

[Vulpine]

You just have the right woman for some of these things... it isn't so much your technique.

You ever hear "where there's a will, there's a way"?

Another angle, another day, another place...

Just as "sit down, shut up, face the front" is harsh one day, it's funny sh¡t the next. Factors. Gotta learn the wºmånese and massage the emotions in order to get anywhere.

People, women included, are constantly evolving.

Training isn't always "do this, do that" head on, you have to make her hungry and then tiptoe around leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for her follow, so to speak. You're leading, right? Blazing a trail? Incentive? Punishment/reward? We've got so many tools at our disposal!

Women don't know where they're going, so you lead them to where you want to be. Diplomacy and patience are certainly requisites. For the stubborn ones, you just have to make it seem like it's their idea - they're finding their "own" way.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Damn. Here I was dilligently typing away my yearly "State of the Marriage" post after celebrating my 11th wedding anniversary on vacation in Lake Tahoe last week and AZANON goes and steals my thunder.

I had dated a lot even by this point (I dated pretty heavy from age 16 on), so I felt like I had sampled the types of women out there; their pros and cons.

Eheheh,..16 to 21, real man of the world there eh?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Vulpine]

Beautiful. Absolutely gorgeous.









Man, that place is amazing. What, with the clean water, sun, mountains in the background and all... breathtaking.

 

[azanon]

Damn. Here I was dilligently typing away my yearly "State of the Marriage" post after celebrating my 11th wedding anniversary on vacation in Lake Tahoe last week and AZANON goes and steals my thunder.

What's new?

Eheheh,..16 to 21, real man of the world there eh?

I know, i know... I was supposed to wait until exactly 27 years of age after I had 40-50 women. Any variation from RT's exact past is not tolerated and shows increasing levels of inferiority.

Sorry I couldn't resist the rebut

 

[SoCalMike]

marriage is not bad, a good marriage is better than being single IMO.

but its' more *risky* now than ever before, thanks to our screwed up laws.

if you find a girl who works as hard as you do, attractive, has the same values, is generous, thinks of your needs/feelings and not just hers, etc. you're probably going to be happy married. (BTW you have to have these qualities too!!)

but if you choose unwisely... you're fvcked.