What does Marriage offer to a man today???

[PlayerinTraining]

I work with an attractive 30 y/o Filipina who is an immigrant to the U.S.
My initial impression of her is that she was a "good girl" and would probably be a good wife/gf.

She was recently engaged to her b/f of nearly 2 years. Ironically enough, she had complained to me that they were fighting, the things he does to annoy her, etc. As recently as a few weeks ago, she even said she wasn't all that excited about getting married, and wouldn't mind being single.

Looking back, I think she might have wanted me to make a move, giving her an excuse to break up with the bf. But that is another story. Suffice it to say, I didn't make a move, and I'm pretty sure any shot I had is gone. She is just a "friend" from work.

Now that she is engaged, the two of them are looking for houses. She says to me: "When I get married, I'm going to work part-time."

I ask jokingly: "Does the b/f know about it? Is he ok with putting in longer hours at the office? What are you going to do with that extra time?"

Sometimes I'll throw in some jokes about spas and maids, mansions and yachts, and how she will have to get the b/f the work that much harder to keep up her luxurious lifestyle.

The strange thing is, on one level she KNOWS she is being unfair and unrealistic by expecting the future husband to work longer hours, but I doubt she will let go of those wishes, and will probably be able to manipulate him into doing what she wants.

I've seen this scenario happen time and time again. Can someone truly explain to me what man in his RIGHT mind, would consent to getting married in the modern world? What does marriage offer the man?

 

[azanon]

Male chauvinism knows no bounds on Sosuave, it seems. Many gifted, great looking woman with a great jobs are probably asking the very same thing you are.

Don't some of you guys watch Judge Judy? 2 out of 3 times, its the dude that's the loser who's basically taking advantage of some woman, including both her sex and her money.

In my office, at least a third of the professionals I work with are women.

 

[Phyzzle]

Whole can of worms, dude. Here's one thread of haggling:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115398

Basically, marriage is for the benefit of the kids. It's certainly not for you.

A Filipino woman is probably better for your friend than the average American, but he should have learned Spanish and moved to the Philipenes. Ultimately, modern Anglo-American laws are way way way stacked against men in the event of a divorce or even a separation. The average marriage ends in divorce, and the average divorce sucks (more) for the man. Of course, sometimes, there are the REAL horror stories.

If I could openly have affairs, then send my wife out of our house at any time, tell her to find some other place, get a job, and pay me for the rest of her life, well, I'm not saying I'd do it . . . but I probably wouldn't put up with a whole lot of crap from her!!

(hypothetically, I'm not married.)

 

[PlayerinTraining]

So then why...

Male chauvinism knows no bounds on Sosuave, it seems. Many gifted, great looking woman with a great jobs are probably asking the very same thing you are.

Don't some of you guys watch Judge Judy? 2 out of 3 times, its the dude that's the loser who's basically taking advantage of some woman, including both her sex and her money.

In my office, at least a third of the professionals I work with are women.

Apparently, symp indoctrination also knows few bounds on sosuave.net.

Imagine the nerve of a guy looking at marriage RATIONALLY, and seeing that it is all risk, no reward. God forbid, we can't have that, can we?

This is why we see loads of articles with the typical shaming tactics complaining about guys who "can't commit."

Again I ask--what for?

Why do women pressure for marriage (usually), and then end up asking for divorce 2/3 of the time? Because they benefit by getting married, and they will (on average) benefit from the divorce.

I know, I know. I'm a man, and not allowed to live my life for ME. I'm supposed to "suck it up", get married, and "take care" of the wife, until she tires of married life, then divorces me, and makes me her indentured servant for as long as the courts permit. That is what "real men" do.

Phyzzle, my friend is the woman, not the guy. I don't really know the guy well, but he seems nice enough--perhaps that is his downfall.

 

[dietzcoi]

Azanon, what a strange reply... what are you trying to say except to defend women for some "save-a-ho" reason??

Who cares if a third of the people in your office are women? WHat does that have to do with marriage...?? What does Judge Judy (not real) have to do with real marriage???

PiT is right.. marriage in our western society is no longer a good deal for a man. WOmen can do whatever they want and the man pays.. and pays..

Keep your money in your pocket.. or do you think paying $1200 a month alimony is a good life strategy??

Numbnuts!!!

Dietzcoi

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Marriage to todays "modern" artificially created woman is a guaranteed destiny to misery and destituteness!

 

[bigjohnson]

Marriage is useful in the context of raising children. Other than that it's a woman favoring male crushing soul eating institution.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Apparently, symp indoctrination also knows few bounds on sosuave.net.

This is priceless! Mucho props to you young brother :flowers:


Azanon, you're slipping brother . . .

PlayerinTraining, I wholeheartedly agree with you. My argument belies that there is no sane/logical reason for men to get married. The only reason to do it is to placate his parents vision of what they want his future to be, or to assuage his own insecurities about sarging other women.

 

[azanon]

Azanon, what a strange reply... what are you trying to say except to defend women for some "save-a-ho" reason??

Who cares if a third of the people in your office are women? WHat does that have to do with marriage...?? What does Judge Judy (not real) have to do with real marriage???

Strange? This isn't complicated. I simply don't buy the notion that men are better than women. IF men are not better than women, then how would a marriage have the potential to hurt a man any more than it does the woman, all other things being equal? And all other things are pretty much equal!

We apparently have guys on here that don't realize that there is monetary value to someone who raises your son/daughter, washes your clothes, cleans your house, runs your errands, ..... infinity. And if you woman doesn't do these things and/or works too, then what the hell's wrong with you. I'll admit right now there are several AFC men out there that do all the work while their wife lives it up. Would this describe you? I bet it would :crackup:

PiT is right.. marriage in our western society is no longer a good deal for a man. WOmen can do whatever they want and the man pays.. and pays..

If you say so! Course, in my case, i'd love to see my wife try to do whatever she wanted. It'd be worth it just to watch the attempt!

Keep your money in your pocket.. or do you think paying $1200 a month alimony is a good life strategy??

If the woman is the one working/with the higher paying job, guess who's paying alimony? (its not a hard question!).

Numbnuts!!!

Look who's talking chief!

 

[azanon]

Apparently, symp indoctrination also knows few bounds on sosuave.net.

Huh?

Imagine the nerve of a guy looking at marriage RATIONALLY, and seeing that it is all risk, no reward. God forbid, we can't have that, can we?

You really should use the search function. Do you not see that other basically identical thread someone else bumped?

Why is my marriage so rewarding then? Wife does 3/4ths the s*** in my house, raises my son 3/4ths the time, looks great, f***s on demand (and often initiates it), and brings home a paycheck, and a nice one at that!

This is why we see loads of articles with the typical shaming tactics complaining about guys who "can't commit."

Again I ask--what for?

Cause some guys prefer knocking a woman up and just paying them child support instead? Dunno! Good question! There are 10s of thousands of single men paying child support that somehow convinced themselves that staying single protected them monetarily. And if you're going to say "I always use condoms!", then my thought is, man I feel bad for you, because I've used them out of necessity a time or 2 in my life and, i've got to tell you.... there's no comparison (with vs. without).

Why do women pressure for marriage (usually)

They do this more often than men? I'm helping 2 close friends right now to get out of the mindset of "finding the right one" because its killing their game!

, and then end up asking for divorce 2/3 of the time?

I think you'd be surprised to find out how many men actually initiate the divorce.

I know, I know. I'm a man, and not allowed to live my life for ME. I'm supposed to "suck it up", get married, and "take care" of the wife, until she tires of married life, then divorces me, and makes me her indentured servant for as long as the courts permit. That is what "real men" do.

Nah, don't do that! By all means, spend hours of your time trying to plan and execute the next "game" so you can get your 7 minute f***, all the while i just walk in the next room, imply to the woman its time, and get mine in 15 minutes.

>Lets not forget our distinguished Rollo T. so many worship is happily married.

 

[azanon]

Azanon, you're slipping brother . . .

Patience brother! Keep the faith!

PlayerinTraining, I wholeheartedly agree with you. My argument belies that there is no sane/logical reason for men to get married. The only reason to do it is to placate his parents vision of what they want his future to be, or to assuage his own insecurities about sarging other women.

> In all seriousness, to you and everyone else, I think its sad to some extent that you guys believe a rewarding marriage is not possible. When you have one, it blows away being single. Mine is definitely rewarding, and i bet if you cornered RT, he'd say the same thing. You can keep convincing yourself there's nothing in it for the man, but it won't make it so.

 

[azanon]

If you want to talk $$$$, its no contest; its cheaper to live married vs. 2 people single in separate housing. You only need one frig, washer, dryer, dishwasher, stove, bed, bathroom, garage, etc.... for 2 people instead of one. This is easy math fellows! The only folks getting the "marriage" equation wrong are those marrying the wrong woman. Guess who's fault that is? This is an easy question too!

Time is money. Maybe you will be the one bringing home the (only) paycheck, but if that's the case (and you were me), that woman would have everything done in the house, all the errands run, and the smell of food the moment i walk in the door.

 

[blueguy]

Azanon, your argument would hold correct if a man could walk away with nothing to lose. The inherent problem with marriage is that it offers unconditional commitment regardless of behavior. Now, if you even the playing field and hold a woman financially responsible for herself in the event of a divorce (why haven't feminists who fought so hard for female job equality and independence fought for this???), then yes, there would be no harm in entering that commitment as it would lean toward a healthier conditional commitment for both parties entering.

Any healthy commitment should have checks and balances and a healthy exit plan. I hold Robert Greene's theory on commitment to be very true. "Commit to no one."

 

[KarmaSutra]

Patience brother! Keep the faith!

Faith is for Christians awaiting Armageddon.

> In all seriousness, to you and everyone else, I think its sad to some extent that you guys believe a rewarding marriage is not possible. When you have one, it blows away being single. Mine is definitely rewarding, and i bet if you cornered RT, he'd say the same thing. You can keep convincing yourself there's nothing in it for the man, but it won't make it so.

I am in a very rewarding, monogamous relationship. Why fvck it up with paperwork or for a tax break? Look, I'm not a defeatist guy but I am a realist. In our society there is no valid reason for a man to be married. We have more options than we can shake sticks at. Back in the day, the Baby boomers didn't. And I know Rollo on a personal level (we meet for sushi and sake every now and again) and he is on a whole other level in every regard. But you're right he and you may have the perfect marriages but unfortunately it's the exception not the rule.

 

[blueguy]

If you want to talk $$$$, its no contest; its cheaper to live married vs. 2 people single in separate housing. You only need one frig, washer, dryer, dishwasher, stove, bed, bathroom, garage, etc.... for 2 people instead of one. This is easy math fellows! The only folks getting the "marriage" equation wrong are those marrying the wrong woman. Guess who's fault that is? This is an easy question too!

Time is money. Maybe you will be the one bringing home the (only) paycheck, but if that's the case (and you were me), that woman would have everything done in the house, all the errands run, and the smell of food the moment i walk in the door.

Those are the benefits of a good committed relationship. You married a good woman, and it's working out.

Would you do the same thing today in the job world? Would you sign a contract committing yourself for life to ONE company? What if the company's benefits sucked after 10 years? It's not a wise idea for ANY man to enter an unconditional commitment under ANY circumstances. This is timeless wisdom. Maybe in certain cases, he will be committed to a GOOD company for as long as he works there, but that's certainly not always the case.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Would you do the same thing today in the job world? Would you sign a contract committing yourself for life to ONE company? What if the company's benefits sucked after 10 years? It's not a wise idea for ANY man to enter an unconditional commitment under ANY circumstances. This is timeless wisdom. Maybe in certain cases, he will be committed to a GOOD company for as long as he works there, but that's certainly not always the case.

Whoa. If that doesn't put things into perspective what the fvck will?

:rockon:

 

[azanon]

Faith is for Christians awaiting Armageddon.

I take it you didn't pick up on the sarcasm.

I am in a very rewarding, monogamous relationship. Why fvck it up with paperwork or for a tax break?

I think you underestimate not just the monetary benefits, but also the social and psychological benefits as well. I realize its hip to just "live together", but that's one thing I don't advise.

Look, I'm not a defeatist guy but I am a realist. In our society there is no valid reason for a man to be married. We have more options than we can shake sticks at. Back in the day, the Baby boomers didn't. And I know Rollo on a personal level (we meet for sushi and sake every now and again) and he is on a whole other level in every regard. But you're right he and you may have the perfect marriages but unfortunately it's the exception not the rule.

Hey, mine isn't perfect! I get tempted from time to time. Any man who says he isn't tempted from time to time, no matter how happy he is, is a liar, plain and simple.

But would I say i'm happily married? Without batting an eye, I would. If RT and I can do it, I think anyone can. Maybe i'm just too da** optimistic. There are prize women out there, so if you happen to get one of them and you've had your fill of dating, then by all means break out the ring.

There aren't many gurarantees in life, but I don't think the solution is to not live and/or not take chances.

 

[azanon]

Those are the benefits of a good committed relationship. You married a good woman, and it's working out.

Ok fine, but are we seriously overestimating the likelihood that a marriage is going to go bad? I just see so many guys here wanting to blame marriage, the woman, the legal system, and not one of them seems to admit that maybe sometimes it the man that is f****** up (in the marriage) or, more likely, just married the wrong girl (which would be his fault).

I think if you take a true DJ man who's marrying wisely, his chances for a happy marriage are considerably higher than any average. So i think the question for any man following this forum is to introspect, be honest with himself, and decide is he just average or is he an exception too.

My dad raised me to think of myself as "the exception" (true or not!), and I think that's the true DJ mindset. WE make a mockery of averages, do we not?

Would you do the same thing today in the job world? Would you sign a contract committing yourself for life to ONE company? What if the company's benefits sucked after 10 years? It's not a wise idea for ANY man to enter an unconditional commitment under ANY circumstances. This is timeless wisdom. Maybe in certain cases, he will be committed to a GOOD company for as long as he works there, but that's certainly not always the case.

I love a great analogy and i use them all the time, but this simply isn't one of them. If the analogy doesn't fit, the associated arguments and comparisons are worthless.

Whoa. If that doesn't put things into perspective what the fvck will?

:rockon:

As stated above, I think the analogy just doesn't work. Next, lets compare apples and oranges, ok?

 

[azanon]

Instead of batting this back and forth, back and forth, I just want you guys to at least consider its possible you can have a rewarding marriage, rewarding meaning better than just being single... or living together. Don't discard the possiblity before you even give its potential a chance. RT and I are not such an anomoly, that it isn't a risk worth taking in some cases. That's all I want to convey here.

 

[blueguy]

I love a great analogy and i use them all the time, but this simply isn't one of them. If the analogy doesn't fit, the associated arguments and comparisons are worthless.

I see no flaws in the analogy.

Behavior is very conditional. Signing an unconditional contract opens up opportunity for either party to take advantage of the other. It happens all the time. You ask any divorcees how they feel, and they'll paint you a different picture.

You say that your marriage is good, and I have no doubt. But I'm 100% certain the reason that your marriage is good is because you've trained your wife. You said it yourself. Many times. You've conditioned her.

And what is conditioning? Conditioning is drawing an event that the other can expect will occur if a certain cause is enacted.

You're not fully committed to your wife. You've conditioned her.

Marriage is not the reason your relationship is going well. The reason it is going so well is because you have offered her a lot under but certain conditions.

Ironically, the very premise of that marriage contract you signed works against the principles of why it is going so well.

Now what if your conditioning should fail one day? What are you going to do? Well, you're going to be flat out of luck since you've committed half your time (work is time) to her for life.

Think of yourself and your wife as a television program. Both of your ratings could crash at any time. You should prepare yourself for these unexpected events.

Marriage can have societal benefits. I agree with you on this. It's a status symbol. It's unfortunate though that it's a status symbol because a lot of people end up getting divorced and have to spend years of their lives to get them back to where they were before. Don't be so quick to speak for others.