Waiting too long?

[Zunder]

well to all the people that do not kiss on the first date and are successful, not to be mean, but really, how old and how good looking (on a scale of 1-10) are these women you talking about? Because sure, I can see how a 35 y/o woman who doesn't have much going for her in the dating could accept it. But 98% of the women i've been with have been 24 and under, and 7.5+ in the looks department. I've gone out with a couple 5's too when I moved to a new city and knew nobody, and was young and in a slump. Even when I showed hesitation or failed to kiss on the first date w/ the 5's, it would be over. Never have I or any of my friends gone on a 2nd date w/o kissing on the 1st. It is simply expected.

Im, with you Seth. Otherwise it would feel like a business meeting rather than a date - to me anyway. If there is not a mutual want to swap spit, then what exactly is the point of the date?

Kiss on the first, bang by the third.

Yea, yea, everyones different.

 

[decentguy]

Shouldn't I just wait for her to get back to me at some point? Whether it takes 1 week or more...

 

[jophil28]

Her response within a few seconds was the following:
"it's a good thing because I too have something planned. Let's reschedule bowling for another time! Good night."

Guys, I'm really not sure how to interpret this. Is she playing games? Is she sincere? Is this all one big sh!t test?

Read your last sentence above. Now read it again. The fact is, you are bewildered. Why?
My guess is that the "cancel on her" tactic just backfired on you.

IF it had worked as you hoped, you would have received a reply from her in which she expressed disappointment or sadness that you were not available. And she would probably have enquired about ( or suggested ) another meet or given you a counter offer.
Instead, her reply to your 'cancelation' was grateful . She was pleased that you canceled . However she was polite enough to leave the door ajar a little by saying,"..reschedule bowling for another time".

Look, there is a time and context to cancel out on a woman BUT you need to understand the way to apply it.

Some of the advice that you received here was way too gung ho and hopelessly out of context with the situation.

MY guess (from the evidence before us) is that she DID have a dinner planned and she wanted to keep her agreement to attend it. Why should she flake on her girls to be with a guy after only ONE date with you.

The belief that she ' should, or would have canceled it to be with you if she is into you' is really High School egotistic stupidity.

You are in a weakened position here because you used the wrong counter tactics.
If fact the situation really did not need a tactical response at all.
You are not invested in her yet nor is she in you. She has done no wrong which needed putting right.

This what I would have done -
She says," ... maybe going to dinner with girls Monday night .."
MY reply, " Cool, enjoy yourself...I will call you later in the week."

That way you control "the energy" between you and you demonstate a kind of calm indifference..
She gets to blab with her girls on Monday night( about you) , you can explore other options if you wish inbetween times, and you also have plenty of time to plan the next move or date with her.
No sweat.

 

[seth03]

Read your last sentence above. NOw read it again. The fact is, you are bewildered. Why?
My guess is that the "cancel on her" tactic just backfired on you.

IF it had worked as you hoped, you would have received a reply from her in which she expressed disappointment or sadness that you were not available. And she would probably have enquired about ( or suggested ) another meet or given you a counter offer.
Instead, her reply to your 'cancelation' was grateful . She was pleased that you canceled . However she was polite enough to leave the door ajar a little by saying,"..reschedule bowling for another time".

Look, there is a time and context to cancel out on a woman BUT you need to understand the way to apply it.

Some of the advice that you received here was way too gung ho and hopelessly out of context with the situation.

MY guess (from the evidence before us) is that she DID have a dinner planned and she wanted to keep her agreement to attend it. Why should she flake on her girls to be with a guy after only ONE date with you.

The belief that she ' should, or would have canceled it to be with you if she is into you' is really High School egotistic stupidity.

I am not saying I am mr. pimp, genius of all women, and I respect your experience (which is far more than mine) and your posts in general....but i just think this is completely, horrendously off point.

 

[decentguy]

Jophil, if, according to you, she did have dinner plans why didn't she tell me she had firm plans instead of saying "I might have dinner plans but nothing confirmed yet, I'll get back to you"?

Here's some background info:
- I'm a singer/songwriter. She added me on facebook last week. Not knowing who she was I asked her "who are you?" to which she jokingly replied "I'm not a stalker or anything but I really like your music." After a playful back and forth, I got her number.

- She's new in town (has only been here for 2 weeks). She only knows a few people here. Her facebook status is "single".

- She texted me a few hours before the first date to make sure it was still on.

-The first date (coffee shop) went very well. I tried to end the conversation 3 different times and she kept it going. She was playing with her hair, blushed a few times, pupils dilated. She payed (beat me to it). The interest signals were there. There simply was no place where we had enough privacy for a kiss. When we left each other she hinted that we should hang out again.

- Judging by her last text message, I think there definitely still is hope. If anything, me canceling only HELPED my cause. Because now she will be wondering what's going on.

 

[jophil28]

I am not saying I am mr. pimp, genius of all women, and I respect your experience (which is far more than mine) and your posts in general....but i just think this is completely, horrendously off point.

The point I was making to all you younger guys is that a woman will NOT choose to be with a new guy over her girls UNTIL she has a stable handhold on her connection with you.
Because a woman feels attracted to you on the first date does NOT guarantee that she will re-mold her social life to be with you as a priority UNTIL she feels stablized by her relationship with you, and invested in you.
There have been many posts here by a fews guys in particular who were bewildered endlessly after women flaked on them. Women often show high IL on a first date and do a lot of kino..etc. It means little mostly. Her IL will tank after a day or so because she was excited and stimulated by your PRESENCE.
It is PUA foolishness in the extreme to believe that your absence alone will increase attraction. Your Value needs to be established first and then she will miss you when you are not around. ONe date with a random woman who had six drinks and gets frisky in the carpark does not creat value or rapport.
Creating attraction through value and rapport is a PROCESS, not a one nighter.

 

[decentguy]

It goes without saying Jophil.
This isn't about me trying to get her to break plans with her friends for a date with me. It's about her not getting back to me in a timely fashion about her plans being firm and making me wait around for her.

 

[Tazman]

I personally think she has low to mild interest based on her last response, that or she's trying to gain the upper hand.

I wouldn't contact her for a week or so. If you hear from her great, if not, make the the next call your last attempt.

 

[mrRuckus]

Don't let her get back to you. Lock her to a real time asap. Don't pressure it, but there's no real special reason you had to get together monday. If she can't tell you for sure to begin with, then say "maybe another time."

There may be better ways but in the end i just don't want to deal with not knowing for sure what's going down. Maybe i want to ask another girl out on monday instead who will immediately say "sure! see you at 6:30!".... or whatever the hell else you want to do.

Not knowing is just that irritating to me. I'd rather be disappointed with a "no" to begin with.

Maybe if "i'll let you know" is given with a time limit on how long she has to let you know that's okay it can slide a bit, but any time in the next two days she MIGHT call and let you know? Pffft. More like "i'll let you know in an hour" and if she doesn't you say screw it and make other plans and try to schedule firmly with her later.

I don't think that's doing either you or her wrong. You're just using your time and schedule in respectful ways.

 

[decentguy]

Update:

She's back in town, but an update on her facebook status indicates that she is sick. Obviously I'm not going to risk catching whatever she may have.

Here's the dilemna. Should I wait another week until I ask her out for a 2nd date (meaning a total of 2 weeks since our first date would have passed)?
Would waiting another week run the risk of things going stale?

Or should I contact her now to see what's up?

I'd really appreciate your feedback guys.

 

[Sinistar]

Update:

She "knows" you lied. She may not have proof or ever call you out on it, but women are the masters of this game. When you try and play it on them they "feel" it. Your actions don't match your words. Will she possibly think you had other options and called off your bowling date - maybe? Me thinks not.

Now, had you been working on solid dates with two or three other women at the same time you wouldn't be so fixed on this one. You would have been..........indifferent! Being indifferent is not the same as playing games. They have no defense for indifference. Faking indifference will never last long because it means you actually have feelings/interest.

Her response of being busy too when you called on Monday was perfect. I love it. She didn't know you would call it off so her response was immediate and flawless. She was probably doing nothing either, lied and left you wondering. You spend like 24 posts analyzing and calculating and she bested you in just minutes. Now while you are wondering and rationalizing that she isn't busy because FB says she's sick, you are entering further into her frame.

If you contact her first in the short term, she knows you're her only option. If she contact her first in a couple weeks, she knows you're fixated on her.

Write this one off. If she contacts you first (within the week) and suggests a date then go for it but GO FOR THE KISS dude!

If she contacts you later on, LJBF her. Then suggest hanging out once in awhile and see if your talking about dating other women stirs the pot. But if you aren't actually dating other women she'll see sense you still actually have an interest in her. And if she's really good she'll talk about the guy she went on the date with that Monday night Then in your current condition you're toast!

Maybe you should try something stupid / funny. If she does call wondering what the hell happened tell her you did something stupid and posted on a friend's internet site and a bunch of computer dorks told you to change up the game by canceling the bowling date (truth). Then laughing (humor) tell her that her response one upped you (feeds her ego) and you moved on (grabs your frame back). Before she can say anything else (possibly being pissed but not too much since it was the truth), tell her next time you're following your gut doing what you wanted to do in the first place. She will most likely ask (if she is truly interested). Just respond "I thought you were kinda cute and woulda manned up and kissed you instead of listening to those dorks". Then DO NOT ask for a date. But if she suggests one you better damned well plant a kiss on her. Odds of working, like maybe 5%.

 

[decentguy]

On the Saturday on which she told me she would get back to me about the date on Monday, should I have just waited until she got back to me, even if it was on the Monday (day of the date)?

Also, what would be so bad about contacting her now?

I want to learn from this.

 

[Tazman]

I agree that her response sounded like she went on the defense, but only because your canceling the date probably didn't sound convincing (I think it could also be that she feels like she has higher value than you, and she isn't going to give you the impression she cares). I still think you did the right thing in canceling, it proves that her interest level simply wasn't high enough to make this worthwhile. Calling her now would definitely be a mistake.

I've heard women talk about guys they have low interest in, who they either went out with or planned to go out with. If these guys do something like cancel a date or anything that makes it seem like they have other priorities it pisses these women off. You'll hear things like "I really don't care, he wasn't even cute", etc.

It's a good way to gauge whether she's worth your time because they won't hesitate to string along guys they have "mediocre" interest in.

It's kind of like hooking up with a chick you really only want to have sex with because you've had a dry spell and you figure she's an easy target, only to have her tell you she won't have sex unless you date her for 2 months. You're thinking to yourself "this chick must be smoking some good sh-t". You're almost insulted.

 

[seth03]

On the Saturday on which she told me she would get back to me about the date on Monday, should I have just waited until she got back to me, even if it was on the Monday (day of the date)?

Also, what would be so bad about contacting her now?

I want to learn from this.

brother, you did learn from this: next time kiss on the 1st date.

continuing to focus on salvaging this one prospect is just a waste of time.

by the way......like i said from the start; jophil and those other posters who said that u dont have to kiss on the first date were wrong.

 

[Sinistar]

On the Saturday on which she told me she would get back to me about the date on Monday, should I have just waited until she got back to me, even if it was on the Monday (day of the date)?

Yes.

Also, what would be so bad about contacting her now?

Incongruence.

I want to learn from this.

Oneitis.

 

[mrRuckus]

by the way......like i said from the start; jophil and those other posters who said that u dont have to kiss on the first date were wrong.

Lol.

Yes, one instance where a guy doesn't have the interest of a girl when he didn't kiss her obviously means you always have to kiss a girl for her to be interested.

In fact, just kiss girls all the time. Just walk right up to them in the bar and kiss them. Every single one will be instantly interested.

I've kissed girls and then never heard from them again. By your sort of logic, that means you shouldn't ever kiss on first dates.

Your logic is defeated by the sheer number of men who have not kissed girls on first dates but still scored later. That sort of disproves "have to," doesn't it?


The best sex i ever had was with a girl i never kissed on a first date. We f*cked for 15 months like rabbits starting on the 3rd date. Didn't kino her... didn't kiss her.

 

[seth03]

Lol.

Yes, one instance where a guy doesn't have the interest of a girl when he didn't kiss her obviously means you always have to kiss a girl for her to be interested.

In fact, just kiss girls all the time. Just walk right up to them in the bar and kiss them. Every single one will be instantly interested.

I've kissed girls and then never heard from them again. By your sort of logic, that means you shouldn't ever kiss on first dates.

Your logic is defeated by the sheer number of men who have not kissed girls on first dates but still scored later. That sort of disproves "have to," doesn't it?


The best sex i ever had was with a girl i never kissed on a first date. We f*cked for 15 months like rabbits starting on the 3rd date. Didn't kino her... didn't kiss her.

beta

 

[The Muscle Expert]

Are you kidding me...

If you had other women on your team, you wouldn't be obsessing over ONE woman.