Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Understanding www.seducingwomen101.com

MackJr

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not sure

I have a hard time believing that "being yourself" and "true confidence" (as opposed to "fake confidence") make a difference.

As far as I can tell,
acting + manipulation = seduction

The confidence might be part of the acting. If it's real, more power to you.

It took me a while to get to the point where I was ethically willing to study seduction. To me it appears that women don't like men, and men don't really like women. They like themselves. So Puff Daddy and Madonna are getting laid because they create a selfish fantasy for their targets to focus on.

Maybe when I become a DJ I'll see things differently, but it doesn't look like that right now.
 

Tai

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xblitz44x are you a really destini9? seems like all you do is trying to promote that site. You made good points tho.
 

Zeus

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No, here is the truth.

Charm = Seduction.
 

xblitz44x

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Tai,

I registered to this site far before D9 created her site or registered here. I'm not promoting her site for any other reason that there is SOLID material there and I wish that you guys would invest enough time there so that you could SEE what I see and TRUELY develop the confidence and be able to move the natural dynamic in the direction you'd like it to go.

Unfortunately though, most don't have the attention span or motivation to read and comprehend what is going on. So here I am, in this thread, to decipher it all, and answer any questions that you have. First though, I wanted to show you how silly it is to REALLY think that consciously *doing things* will increase or create attraction. I'm trying to get you guys to think outside the box, to realize that there *IS* another layer beyond this surface. That all we've done HERE is create an artificial place in our minds where these tricks are brought to life in fantasy, ALLL in the name of gaining some power and control over situations that have burned us and left us confused and frustrated in the past. Problem is, this is only fantasy, the 'results' are only an illusion and what's happening is happening for reasons we truely DON'T understand, but that I'd be willing to explain.

But before I can show anything you guys have to unplug.

"acting + manipulation = seduction"

Come on man. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that? Manipulation? We don't even know how our OWN minds work, what makes you think we can really break into somebody else's mind? I don't doubt that you get laid, but sit back and think about this: If you DIDN'T use "acting and manipulation" would you still have had sex with the girls that you had sex with if you were just as outgoing and took the dominant role?" What part did the 'maniupulation' have in all of this? If an ugly girl 'acted and manipulated' you, would you feel an amazing attraction and want to fvck her?

Surely you can see that this is all an illusion. But you probably choose NOT to see it because to see it would be to acknowledge that this is all some bullshyt and you would be stripping yourself of this sense of 'power'. Madonna and P Ditty are banging people because of who they represent to people. People's perceptions of each one. Pleanty of people wouldn't fvck Madonna and wouldn't fvck P. Ditty. It's all perception. Yes they fit into roles that naturally compell people.
 

drixsa

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Originally posted by xblitz44x
If an ugly girl 'acted and manipulated' you, would you feel an amazing attraction and want to fvck her?

it doesnt always work that way blitz

as i am sure you know unlike men girls are attracted to more than a nice body and cute face

the rest of what you are saying is right on par
 

Monkey

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Good site with some solid info, but damn many of the articles are like Pook on steroids - much, much too long and utterly boring.

I think thats why most people just don't give that site a chance.
 

MackJr

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If you DIDN'T use "acting and manipulation" would you still have had sex with the girls that you had sex with if you were just as outgoing and took the dominant role?"
Hell no. If I only settled for the people naturally attracted to me, I'd get maybe 3-5% of the population. I'm not discounting confidence, but I think that techniques can influence an outcome. If you're highly experienced, then your techniques are integrated now, so you don't have to think about them anymore. Then it really is only confidence. I'm not there yet, so I need to learn this stuff.

If an ugly girl 'acted and manipulated' you, would you feel an amazing attraction and want to fvck her?
Ugly girl, no, but average: maybe so.
 

xblitz44x

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MackJr,

Would you answer these questions for me? I'm not trying to insult you or anything. Just be honest. I'm curious about your point of view:

1) Which techniques are you speaking of that YOU personally use?

2) What does each individual technique do to create attraction? How, when, and why would you use each one?

3) Which events or experiences happened to you before that made you so sure that only 5% of women like you naturally? Think hard about this one.

4) Related to number 2....recall a few PUs, and explain them in detail. Tell me how each technique worked to 'create' attraction. Show how if you DIDN'T use that technique, you wouldn't have gotten laid, a number, a kiss, whatever.

5) Which events made you realize that you need 'help' with women? There is usually one of two that put you over the edge. What were they?

-Blitz
 

MackJr

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1) Which techniques are you speaking of that YOU personally use?
Smiling, extended eye contact, comedic smalltalk, rapport (matching speech style and body language).

I don't use pickup lines, they don't work for me. I think about 60-70% is body language.

.
2) What does each individual technique do to create attraction? How, when, and why would you use each one?
smiling is a given, use it everytime. It helps the other person let down her guard.

Extended eye contact is sort of new for me. I used to use the upside down triangle method of eye contact, but I sense her feeling it more if I hold a gaze slightly longer at close range more with my eyelids not fully open (googly) but open at a relaxed height.

Comedic smalltalk is for icebreaking. I try to talk about something going on in the area, or she's wearing a funny hat or weird clothes. The content is irrelevant, but I try to make it appear that I'm passing time by talking.

Rapport- Not sure if this works, but the person tends to agree with me more.

While I'm doing all this,I'm gauging her enthusiasm. If I deem it high enough I'll go for the phone number.

3) Which events or experiences happened to you before that made you so sure that only 5% of women like you naturally? Think hard about this one.
The fact that all my girlfriends were cute, but they were all highly intelligent and educated. (I am too) Every woman isn't smart or educated, though. The only exceptions were some older women (40ish) who hit on me when I was around 20-22, and now, golddigger-type younger women.

4) Related to number 2....recall a few PUs, and explain them in detail. Tell me how each technique worked to 'create' attraction. Show how if you DIDN'T use that technique, you wouldn't have gotten laid, a number, a kiss, whatever.
When I was in college, I only had information from the flirting guide by Susan Rabin. Even though it's not as aggressive as some of the methods here, the eye contact and rejection advice it had helped, and I remember meeting a girl and going out on a date that same evening. This was a girl with a boyfriend. I led the interaction and I looked into her eyes using the upside down triangle technique. It's so many years ago, it's hard to remember, but it was my first successful flirt using technique.

If I hadn't done the eye contact, the smalltalk, the smiling, then I would have scared her away.

I used a flirting prop (another rabin technique) with another woman to help with the smalltalk. She was playing a video game in public, so I asked about it. She wasn't ready for me at the time, but I was one of the people she remembered later and she started calling me up. All the instances I'd spoken to her, I was smiling and acting relaxed. Most of my thing is trying to get the woman relaxed. I'm so serious naturally, people tend to fear me.

The first time I did an all-the-way instant sedution it was with an angry chick. She was pretty bytchy but I didn't submit (drove her crazy). Got her in bed but I don't know which of the aforementioned techniques it was. Before we met on the date, however, I'd primed her with some suggestive language and I stopped letting her know about my inner life. On the date I just sensed her sexual tension, even though she was bytching. I said, "let's just chill out" and pulled her to the couch, arm on shoulder, and that was enough. "Instant" meaning no prior GF-BF relationship.

5) Which events made you realize that you need 'help' with women? There is usually one of two that put you over the edge. What were they?
I hooked up with a chick at a mall, and my technique was Perfect--according to what I knew at the time. Sure enough, I got her phone number. We made plans for a date, and just before the date, she confessed she had a boyfriend [she was playing me]. I met this guy once too, and I knew I was way better than he was. She was too afraid to let go, so she wanted to play both sides. I didn't put up with that, so I cancelled the date, but it ticked me off. I decided to end my one-itis and go for more agressive techniques so I'd 1) be protected emotinally from this kind of thing and 2) have a greater selection of women. If they were going to play games, I would too.
 

drixsa

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XBLITZ-

ah the advice no one ever saw coming:

"be yourself"

its hard to argue whether you are yourself before or after you "improve" yourself and become "who you really are"

i think you are who you "really are" all through your process of improving yourself (i hope that makes sense)

to say that you suddenly become "your true self" once u have reached a certain level is BS espically since there is always more to be reached.

yea i agree that having some of these "tools" to take out of your "toolbox" as famously used at FS.Com is BS.

becuase when some people use these things they arent being themselves. some people just arent the ****y+funny type.

thus they are pretending to be someone and something they are not in order to succed with woman.

so instead of trying to buy woman gifts to get them to like you, you implament it with a fake attitude to do the same thing

thus never really changing you attitude at all, just pretending that you are, or even worse THINKING that you are different.

now dont get me wrong some people are natuarally C+F and that is just who they are.

so what if u have a guy that is a complete niceguy. im talking the pu$$iest of the nice guys (im sure we have a few live subjects here at SS.com :p )

before we go into how we help this poor guy i want to know what we define as a tool...?

challenge, mystery are some of the tools you mentioned but what makes that any more or less of a tool than anything else we tell him such as "dont take crap from females" or "make yourself the prize"????
 

Imbrondir

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Nice thoughts there blitz, but I have to disagree with some points.

1) Saying that looks and the 'target's mood is the only thing that creates attraction.
Not exactly what you said, but it's what I interpreted. I've always been reasonable good looking. Before I came to this discussion board, I had been working out, for like 3 years straight. I even did an underwear commercial on tv. I think of myself as atleast an 8. Now did this, alone, get me anywhere? Offcourse not. And if I see another fcked up guy holding hands with a really sweet girl, I'm going to puke.

I've allso been on the other side. Spinach is not so bad with the right spices actually ;). But I'll never offcourse fck a fat chick. I remember approaching my first two-set. One girls was really hot, but the other girl was more of like... average. After just 30 mins of talking, this average girl, somehow in my eyes, appeared MUCH more attractive to me. Something about her voice, bearing, confidence and interesting lifestory made her really stand out from most other girls I've ever been talking to. She lives like 30000 miles from me, so I didn't even think about closing... but still, you get the point.

2) Breaking the learning curve.
I really like the 4 levels mastery. I use in everything I try to learn. Altough it usually go like... 1, 2, 1, 3, 4, 2, 3, 4... (I mean, as you get better, you realize there is more details you didn't know). Perhaps yours and pooks 'model' for the 4th stage is the one we're all trying to achieve, but untill then, I'll be using everything from canned openers, neg hits and c&f (altough those are pretty much natural now), forced challenge, forced statements (instead of questions), forced bodylanguage and voice tone...etc.

Do any of you know what a breakdance windmill is (probobly the most famous b-boy move, except headspin)? For those of you who do, but never tried doing it, why don't you lie down and do them for me now? I mean, they are really easy. Doesn't require anymore strenght then you already posess. I don't even think about how I do them. But I used alot of thinking, imagination and practice to figure out how to first do them. I mean several months.

3) The confidence value
If you give some sick child a sugar pill, the pill isn't healthy, but it can be very healthy if you can make him believe it is (The all famous placebo effect). This works while picking up chicks as well. If I know some guy has field tested a 'teqnique' many times with a high success rate, I know I can use fairly safely, and will say it very confident. And if it doesn't work, I know it's due to my bodylanguage and tonality. I know you guys are meaning it well, but I've tried the "over-simplification mode" for a LONG time. And altough I felt good using it, I only had once chick in that period.

4) What do this has to do with destiny9 anyway?
Since you've recommended it, I've given it a shot. Twice. Several hours each. Still not found anything of new, real value. And if any girl reading, thinks deangelo sounds '****y', destiny brings the word arrogancy to an entire new level. And there is not much fun in there. Imho, she is a terrible and unintersting writer. Hey, if I wanted to get insulted with no return value, I'll rather send a fake bad written fake-hate mail to maddox.

But I'm always interested about hearing your opinions blitz. But please tell eloborate what exactly destiny9 has helped you understand? Tell me if I'm still completly missing the boat here....
 
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JustDoItAlways

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So you are saying that only True Confidence works. And that you cannot get a chick Unless She Likes You First.

And "Kino" and "Mystery" and "Challenge" and "Seduction" and "Handling Women's Emotions" and "Fake It Till You Make It Confidence" and "Overcoming ASD Techniques" and "Social Proof" and "****y and Funny" and "Be a Man" etc. etc. ...

... DOESN'T WORK AT ALL.

Well, the experience of thousands of guys, DJs and PUA's and even Your Grandfather before you, say ...

... YOU ARE JUST WRONG.
 

prosemont

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Originally posted by xblitz44x

Surely you can see that this is all an illusion. But you probably choose NOT to see it because to see it would be to acknowledge that this is all some bullshyt and you would be stripping yourself of this sense of 'power'. Madonna and P Ditty are banging people because of who they represent to people. People's perceptions of each one. Pleanty of people wouldn't fvck Madonna and wouldn't fvck P. Ditty. It's all perception. Yes they fit into roles that naturally compell people.
Blitz,
Awesome as usual. Question: isn't the above example exactly correct, ie. that people often fvck based on perceptions? Can't you manipulate perceptions? I think one CAN manipulate perceptions. I think I do it daily as part of my career; I think many people do it daily.

As a very limited example, just to make a point, what if I got a bunch of tattoos and black leather and drove a Harley. I think I might have a certain type of chick attracted to me because of the perception, no matter how false, she created of me. Yet, I'm the same old prosemont as I am in my tuxedo. :D

Feel free to substitute the words "Harley" and "tuxedo" for whatever other attribute, tangible or intangible, you wish to have it make sense TO YOU.

Can't perceptions be manipulated in other ways, as well, by acting in a particular way or saying certain things in certain ways. Don't you find that you create a certain perception of certain actors based on how they are acting and the like? Isn't that as changeable as the script they're following is changeable?

To be sure, once the "true you" is found out (over time), a woman may not stick around because you've bait and switched ... but, the question remains, if attraction is based on perception (if that is what you are saying), can't that perception be manipulated and hence attraction manipulated? Can't it be manipulated albeit falsely and even though a woman wouldn't like the you yourself?

In addition, do most people know anything about themselves? Isn't there vast as yet untapped qualities and characteristics in each of us that have been hidden and obscured by our lack of confidence, fear, insecurities, anxieties, blah blah blah? If one could remove those hindrances, perhaps one really would be more globally "attractive." How does one go about removing those obstacles? Isn't all the hoopla on this site an effort to do just that? Is it not effective in doing that?

It may make better sense to get to the CORE of those insecurities, true, but sometimes the question "why are you so fvcking anxious over NOTHING???" just doesn't get readily resolved.

Re the whole perception thing, I've often used the "chocolate" and "vanilla" analogy to describe how people just LIKE one or the other whether it's in a cup or cone or sugarcone or withheld (challenge) or you don't know what type of chocolate it is exactly (mystery) or blah blah blah. I thought of this analogy in trying to explain in review how I ever seduced women and got to thinking that there hadn't been any tricks or tactics used or, rather, that I could have done or could not have done anything and I still would have seduced those women.

But, there is a difference between chocolate and us, as humans. That difference is that I sincerely believe that we can change ourselves. That we can significantly change ourselves in many ways (although the general flavor may remain the same).
 

Lone_raider

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Blitz, you have undergone quite a metamorphosis since the time I signed up here and now. When I first came here I was incredibly ignorant, just read the bible and was starting to understand things. I think at that time you were around and into Speed Seduction and such. I took your information and tips as gold, you seemed to be incredibly successful with women and knew exactly what worked and what didn't. Think you replied to some of my early posts and your info helped me a good deal.

Now you are taking a totally different approach, and it's interesting to see, you have some good points, I won't deny that and you have been far more successful with women than I. But I think you have forgotten what it was like to know nothing a be a total AFC. What your saying sounds and looks good from the standpoint of someone like yourself, a few others and even now myself. But then I thought back to a point where I didn't have any confidence with women, would obsess about them, and not know how to deal with them. This didn't mean they didn't like me and that was why I'd failed. In fact some of them did like me, and asked for my number, because the AFC I used to be would never ask for a girls number ever. Then I would go out with them and be a passive drooling puppy, I would plan marriages in my head and such. True this was not really being myself, and you would say that now, but what was myself??? I knew I had it somewhere, I had brilliant ideas, had confidence in bursts in the past, but it was never showing all the time, it was hidden. Here I'd performed martial arts in front of 5,000 people, but then I put the experience away and lost that sense of incredible confidence. I had a can do attitude but I always kept it inside, instead showing neediness and weakness to women. And worst of all I hid the fact that I was a man! Never touched them, talked about sex, tried to make a move, I was that androgynous friend that never gets anything!

It was this site, and the DJ bible that guided me where to go. It showed me it was OK to act like a man, that's what women want afterall, they don't want other women for boyfriends (well sometimes lol ;)). Posts in the bible guided me in how to show that confidence all the time, so I've become a little ****y, it's worked like a charm. I know a damn martial art, I can defend myself and others and I let women know that. When I'm with a girl now and she is worried about some dangerous looking guy or some dangerous place I always say "don't worry, I got it under control if anything happens". Or "that guy would be sorry if he started anything with me" lol :) Yet even though I have had this skill for a long time, I never used to say this stuff, just kept it locked up around women.

There was a barrier with women, I needed to learn a new way to see things, some small tips and tricks in order to bring out that confidence because I certainly couldn't find it with women. But confidence was not the end all either. I could still call to much, fall in love after one date, say dumb ass things, and not know how to even go about asking for a number in certain situations. This site provided me with tips for all these things, tips that worked.

But here is what happens. At some point the tips go away, you don't follow them exactly, you forget them, etc. Once all the tricks and tips go away you are left with something that we call waza in Ninjutsu, which is just free flowing movement. It means that your kata aka tips and tricks are no longer applied exactly like rules in a handbook, you have learned them, applied them, some have become natural parts of who you are, and now they are gone. Instead replaced by just pure instinctual knowledge, just like you have Blitz, and just like I have now begun to have.

But without those initial tips and tricks, without those posts in the bible that changed my thinking pattern, I'd be no better off then I was 2 years ago. You see most people need to start with tips and tricks, or they will never reach that level of instinctual knowledge where tips go away and there is just flawless natural action. It was the same with Ninjutsu for me, first there was Kata which taught me exactly what to do and how, then there was waza where I knew what to do without thinking of rules, just adpating to the attack as it came at me, and changing where I needed to change to best accomodate the situation.
 

ArnZ

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I wish there was a site called "seducingmen101.com"

Recent theories in Evolutionary Psychology (It's a very new field, probably 20 years old) says that females in mammals and primates and especially humans have always been the "chooser" sex. It's a law of nature. It's the legacy of our evolution. The remnants of hunter-gatherer society. What is astonishing is that Darwin actually talked about this "sexual selection via male rivalry and female choice" back in 1800s. But nobody actually gave it importance until very recently.

Men's dominance in Arts, Politics, Sciences, Music, etc. can be rationally discussed in the light of evolution only if we accept the theory that all these are male display of ornamentation so that the female can choose the most intelligent one.

The tone of Destini's site is very nakedly telling us the same fact. It's always about seducing women. Not the other way around. Everything Destini says on the site sounds like this:

-"Do This!"

-"Don't do that!"

-"If you do this, you've blown it for life!"

- "If you do that, you will be gossiped about in womaniverse and your worth will go down and you will get no ***** ever!"

-"If you actually succeed by doing what you are doing, it's not your credit, but just that the woman has no self worth."

Destini is basically beating her (and like minded females') own drums on a layer of outdated psychology (Jung?). In the language of NLP, Destini has created her own reality of how the world of sexual dynamics should look like. She is SO immersed in it that she can't see anything outside of it.

I think we, men, need to understand that we are the weaker sex and generally NOT the chooser. Subconsciouly. But here's the wonderful thing. We can USE this knowledge to attract women. Whenever a man sends the signal to a woman that she is not the chooser, it disrupts her inner mechanism and makes her curious about him. The rest should be easy.
 

x X x Lifestyle

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Everything is all a matter of perspective. That and truly putting the effort into accomplishing something.

Somebody can easily come here, read the wealth of info, apply it, and start scoring with hot chicks, so long as they put the effort through into not caring about rejection, learning from their mistakes and work to improve their own lives. It WILL improve their lives.

And then there are those people who can follow xblitz's advice, be themselves, have 'natural' conversations with chicks, drawing the attraction they feel out and getting laid through that. It works too.

The point is, no one certain 'set' of tricks, advice or mindset will work for every single person. It is up to you to get out there, try new things, take risks, and learn from your mistakes. Only then will you become comfortable interacting with women, and then the sucess you are seeking will come. Tricks or no tricks.

It's all in how you perceive the game.
 

Mr. Mystery

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I've only skimmed through Destini's stuff, and it was a while back, so I don't feel to comfortable in promoting any site, including this one.

I wonder sometimes if finding this site has been more of a hinderance than a blessing to me sometimes...I think back to a time when I was fed up not getting women and started to approach them to beat my fear, then I found this site and thought I had come across a gold mine. Honestly, I think that what I learned here in writing I could have learned much much quicker through trial and error in the real world without any written help.

I group this site and Destini's site in one group, of unnessecary help.

As far as be yourself goes, I think its the best way to go. What I consider "be yourself" is to figure out who you are and be that person. Stop acting how you do to please others or to earn respect. Respect yourself by acting how you act to please yourself. Thats what confidence is, realizing that you are worth something and that if people don't like you the way you are then they arent gonna be much fun to be around anyway so you move on to people who are like you or who like you.

I hope thats somewhat clear, its hard for me to put it into words, but its basically self-acceptance I guess, acting instead of reacting.

I don't know what else to add...

Mr. Mystery
 

TheInfamousCBear

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Originally posted by Mr. Mystery

As far as be yourself goes, I think its the best way to go. What I consider "be yourself" is to figure out who you are and be that person. Stop acting how you do to please others or to earn respect. Respect yourself by acting how you act to please yourself. Thats what confidence is, realizing that you are worth something and that if people don't like you the way you are then they arent gonna be much fun to be around anyway so you move on to people who are like you or who like you.

Thats true...Some people say that im really intimidating, and I always have a serious look on my face and that I have no feelings or Im a smartass or whatever, but for the first time in my life, I can say that Im being myself....Just because Im not hiding any of these traits Ive had in order to try to make myself more likeable, but the truth eventually came out...Id rather have most girls thinking Im an a$$hole or whatever and have 10 girls think Im hot sh1t, rather than trying to fake who I am...And that is true confidence....
 

Ice Cold

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Destini's site is a long, disorganized essay from a person who doesn't play the field. And she's like 35 or something.

I'd like to see her not fall for DJ tactics when she was 19, or 25.

Blech
 
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