Understanding Class and Taste

[ChristopherColumbus]

All people are ego driven at the end of the day. From the classiest person to the trashiest person.
A man with class, taste, style and elegance is simply a man who has learned how to craft a charismatic persona based on the accepted cultural norms for "class, taste, style and elegance" at the time. And YES there is a strong degree of conformity to it. Conforming to several ideals at once.

The same guy would not pull off the same persona if they lived in 1800 because the standards would be different.



Class = The ability to express and present yourself without being vulgar, obscene, overly aggressive or overly emotional
Taste = Having values and preferences that conform to whatever is considered "classy" in the mainstream
Gentleman = A Hollywood/Fiction book creation. James Bond crap. But generally a man who honors the tradition of what is considered "classy" regardless of how relevant it is in the current time he lives in.



It doesn't because there is no such thing as a "gentleman".

Also, a gentleman needs a lady (another Hollywood creation) and ladies don't exist either. So you are basically crafting a persona around finding a unicorn.. assuming that is your main motivation for being a "gentleman". You can put milk and cookies out for "Santa" while you're at it lol.



It was never a real thing to begin with. Its a fantasy.

A gentleman does not simply fit into a social category, but is someone with a timeless quality to them. They are grounded and rooted in a solid sense of reality that transcends the fickle moment... yet the present moment is also reality for them. And so they tend to have a metaphysics, a sense of aesthetic, ethical, and philosophical norms that transcend fashion.... even though they are concerned also with fashion. They are not a product of society, more often than not society has been produced by them. A gentleman lives a self-determined life, and so is self-created... to a certain extent. Life is akin to a work of art.

 

[Urbanyst]

A gentleman does not simply fit into a social category, but is someone with a timeless quality to them. they are ground and rooted in a solid sense of reality that transcends the fickle moment... yet the present moment is also reality for them. And so they tend to have a metaphysics, as sense of aesthetic, ethical, and philosophical norms that transcend fashion.... even thought they are concerned also with fashion. They are not a product of society, more often than not society has been produced by them.

Incorrect.

There is no such thing as a "gentleman". It is what @Tenacity would call a "cartoon character". Made up by Hollywood, romance novels and the entertainment industry.

While its not a real thing.. the term is just loose enough to allow some men to call themselves one or some women to call men that. But its bogus.

 

[guru1000]

Style:

The guy on the list exemplifies my demeanor, look, style IRL. This is the look of a DJ who has his pick of the litter; no bias

A gentleman does not simply fit into a social category, but is someone with a timeless quality to them. they are ground and rooted in a solid sense of reality that transcends the fickle moment... yet the present moment is also reality for them. And so they tend to have a metaphysics, as sense of aesthetic, ethical, and philosophical norms that transcend fashion.... even thought they are concerned also with fashion. They are not a product of society, more often than not society has been produced by them. A gentleman lives a self-determined life, and so is self-created... to a certain extent. Life is akin to a work of art.

I hope you don't speak this way to women.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Incorrect.

There is no such thing as a "gentleman". It is what @Tenacity would call a "cartoon character". Made up by Hollywood, romance novels and the entertainment industry.

While its not a real thing.. the term is just loose enough to allow some men to call themselves one or some women to call men that. But its bogus.

If you say there is no such thing as a gentleman, I will ask you 'why not'? You will then no doubt go on to give me some account of human nature and society, and how it is determined by this or that. I will say that is just ideology [mass delusion]. The fact is we have the potential to create ourselves at the existential level [and at the cultural/ historical level]. Despite the 'levelling' mass ideology, ladies and gentlemen are always possible.

The two dimensional cartoon character is mass man.... an economy of thought... the construction of ego,,, the product of modern ideology.

 

[Urbanyst]

If you say there is no such thing as a gentleman, I will ask you 'why not'?

The same reason there is no Easter Bunny.

Show me one.

The fact is we have the potential to create ourselves at the existential level [and at the cultural/ historical level]. Despite the 'levelling' mass ideology, ladies and gentlemen are always possible.

The two dimensional cartoon character is mass man.... an economy of thought... the construction of ego,,, the product of modern ideology.

Yes.. we all have the ability to be FAKE. That is what separates is from the animals. At least most of the animals lol.

 

[BeExcellent]

There absolutely are gentlemen in existence. My father was such a man as were my grandfather, uncles, and other men whom I have known, and some whom I have dated along the way. They are not cartoon characters at all. They are very real and they were man's men.

 

[Urbanyst]

There absolutely are gentlemen in existence. My father was such a man as were my grandfather, uncles, and other men whom I have known, and some whom I have dated along the way. They are not cartoon characters at all. They are very real and they were man's men.

Nope.

You started a thread ASKING what a gentleman is. Remember?

So if you don't know what the heck it is.. how can you claim your father or any of the men you f*cked were gentlemen? Lol.

 

[BeExcellent]

Nope.

You started a thread ASKING what a gentleman is. Remember?

So if you don't know what the heck it is.. how can you claim your father or any of the men you f*cked were gentlemen? Lol.

Really? I asked NOT because *I* don't know. I know very well according to my own criteria and experience. I asked because I think its a discussion worth having because I think there might be men who have no idea what a gentleman is, how a gentleman acts, and so forth. It's not something I see discussed here but I'm here to tell you it IS something that matters to women.

I've seen "class" referenced in a number of threads recently. I don't think some men here understand appropriateness, finesse, calibration, and nuance. So knowing what I think about such matters I thought a discussion about what others thought would be useful.

It's a question asked because there are varying opinions. It is a question asked to gain perspective for the benefit of the board, not because I don't have my own thoughts on the matter. You don't think "gentlemen" exist at all for example. That is one opinion. There are other opinions, mine is but one among them.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

The same reason there is no Easter Bunny.

Show me one.



Yes.. we all have the ability to be FAKE. That is what separates is from the animals. At least most of the animals lol.

A notion of 'fake' would have to be contrasted to what is real, or authentic. What is real and authentic in your opinion?

As an aside:

For example, you here a lot about 'fake news' these days in the US, which makes us wonder what real news could be.... Oh, that's right, that would be professional 'objective' journalism... those that cry 'fake news' are directing their criticism at the mainstream media... that it is serving some political agenda. The solution would not be to create[subscribe to] your own news instead. This would just end up pushing your own political agenda... the thing that was originally criticized. No, you'd look to enforce professional journalistic standards in the media.

Translating this to rational dialogue - we need to give a rational account of our beliefs [justified true belief], not just state our preferences. And it is one defining feature of that gentleman that a civil use of reason is given centrality of place.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

The guy on the list exemplifies my demeanor, look, style IRL. This is the look of a DJ who has his pick of the litter; no bias


I hope you don't speak this way to women.

No this is reserved for a whisky in with the gents in the drawing room.

 

[devilkingx2]

I'll go even further and suggest most people of "class and taste" are that way because they were raised with role models who had "class and taste."

They don't consciously choose to be classy or tasteful, they only do what comes naturally. For them, being classy and tasteful is as natural as hillbillies banging their sisters and eating mayonnaise sandwiches.

Nixon was born in a shack and became president, yet he never felt he was "equal" to those with better "breeding."

This suggests that without the proper "breeding" (genetics and parenting and proper social circle during upbringing) class and taste are out of reach.

One might even suspect that any proclamations or recommendations of the necessity of "class and taste" are a subtle and subconscious "class signaling" on the part of the recommender.

I feel like class and taste are just a function of money. people who choose mcdonalds over 5 star restaurants can't afford to eat escargot in paris and down it with champagne.

think about something you'd associate with class and taste that wouldn't require you to have a lot of money, I can't think of many.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

I .
think about something you'd associate with class and taste that wouldn't require you to have a lot of money, I can't think of many.

Reading some literature, writing some poetry, engaging in some fine conversation, and loitering at some coffee shop for the afternoon. A gentleman is just an urbane individual. It's not about 'class' in the external and snobbish sense at all.

 

[JesusJones]

I'm inbetween....my first girlfriend was posh as hell and I never felt good enough for her family or friends who always seemed to be one step ahead of me in snoberry...

...contrast that with my younger group of friends who would have classed me as a little posh compared to their street manner...

Where does that leave me....the rough and ready class me as a refined Gentleman and the upper class have regarded me as a well dressed rogue

I guess we can frame anything how we want to
.

 

[wifehunter]

It all boils down to 'Elegance'. Which is a sign of genius. Which is making something hard to understand and complicated, into something seemingly simple and understandable. It's synonymous with 'beauty'.

Classy people, are a lonely bunch. As, most people, make things complicated and difficult.

 

[Bible_Belt]

think about something you'd associate with class and taste that wouldn't require you to have a lot of money, I can't think of many.

Good point. There are a few, though. My ex-wife was educated at expensive boarding schools in England, and I grew up on a farm in Illinois, so I did learn a lot about etiquette from her. Americans in general, especially as tourists, have a reputation for being loud, obnoxious, and ignorant. Many of those tourists are quite rich, but still have no class at all.

Etiquette is about how you make other people feel. You don't lord your superiority over them, or if the tables are turned, attempt to pull them down to your level to make yourself feel more adequate. Take the much-misunderstood Neg Hit as an example. New guys will walk up to a hot girl and call her fat, then think she's a b!tch for getting mad. That's poor etiquette. By contrast, take for example the classic David D neg hit line "wow that's a big purse! Do you have a gun in there?" I don't know if that old line still works, but it did because it solicits the right kind of playful and fun emotions. It's a joke of an insult, and not a real one. The difference is how she feels, and that is a large part of having good etiquette.

 

[Urbanyst]

Really? I asked NOT because *I* don't know. I know very well according to my own criteria and experience. I asked because I think its a discussion worth having because I think there might be men who have no idea what a gentleman is, how a gentleman acts, and so forth. It's not something I see discussed here but I'm here to tell you it IS something that matters to women.

You don't get to have your own "criteria and experience" for something well defined. For instance, a rock is a rock. You don't get to have your own "opinion" of what a rock is.

You live in a fantasy land lol.

I've seen "class" referenced in a number of threads recently. I don't think some men here understand appropriateness, finesse, calibration, and nuance. So knowing what I think about such matters I thought a discussion about what others thought would be useful.

Cool. But that doesn't mean a "gentleman" is a real thing.

It's a question asked because there are varying opinions. It is a question asked to gain perspective for the benefit of the board, not because I don't have my own thoughts on the matter. You don't think "gentlemen" exist at all for example. That is one opinion. There are other opinions, mine is but one among them.

You don't get to have your own " varying opinion" on something well defined. For instance, a glass of water is a glass of water. You don't get to have your own "varying opinion" on what a glass of water is.

You are living in a Hollywood movie.

 

[user43770]

You don't get to have your own "criteria and experience" for something well defined. For instance, a rock is a rock. You don't get to have your own "opinion" of what a rock is.

You live in a fantasy land lol.



Cool. But that doesn't mean a "gentleman" is a real thing.



You don't get to have your own " varying opinion" on something well defined. For instance, a glass of water is a glass of water. You don't get to have your own "varying opinion" on what a glass of water is.

You are living in a Hollywood movie.

What do you keep going on about?

a civilized, educated, sensitive, or well-mannered man.

That's from dictionary.com

 

[Urbanyst]

What do you keep going on about?

a civilized, educated, sensitive, or well-mannered man.

That's from dictionary.com

Well that's basically a standard guy. So the real definition is "well-mannered".

There is a definition for Easter Bunny too.

 

[user43770]

Well that's basically a standard guy. So the real definition is "well-mannered".

There is a definition for Easter Bunny too.

You took an odd stance in this thread.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

You took an odd stance in this thread.

Or an ideological one.