I swear I am not making this up. Last weekend, my girlfriend of 4 months and I went to a club together for the first time. Upon arriving, my girl began chatting with a friend of hers while I was visiting with a buddy of mine. This girl walks up, puts herself in between my buddy and me, and starts saying she knows me. She looks vaguely familiar but I can't place her so I ask how we are acquainted. As she is explaining where we met, she asks me to take a pic with her. She whips out a camera and holds it in front of us, snapping a photo of her kissing me on the cheek. Then she proceeds to stick her tongue down my throat right in front of my girlfriend. I was stunned to say the least and when I finally separated myself from her, my date was gone. She returned a few minutes later to inform me she was leaving with a friend of hers but I convinced her to go with me. We returned to her house for what turned out to be a long night. She seems to believe that I led the girl on by allowing her to take a pic and as she says "hang all over me". This entire incident took maybe 60 seconds and I say I was a victim of circumstance, that I never saw it coming, and am guilty only of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Our relationship was going really well but now she says isn't sure she can trust me because I fail to see where flirting leads and she doesn't think we have the same views about what is appropriate and what isn't. I understand she was hurt, I am sorry this incident happened because I really do care about her but cannot do anything to change it. At this point, I don't know if the relationship will survive or not. She says everyone she has told about this, both guys and girls, think I am an azzhole and that she deserves better. My response to this has been that women will always stick together and that any guy who agrees with her is simply trying to curry favor for the purpose of getting her into bed. What do you guys think......did I bring this on myself or was I the victim of a girl with raging hormones?
Hello Friend,
If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.
It will be the most efficient use of your time.
And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.
Thank you for visiting and have a great day!
Truth is Stranger Than Fiction
- Thread starter Old Buck
- Start date
Two things happened when "your girl" witnessed the interaction between you and this kind stranger:
1) You gained power.
2) "Your girl" lost power.
Now "your girl" is doing anything a normal person would do in a similar situation-- she is trying to gain back the power that she lost. Believe me when I tell you, she has no desire to end her relationship with you (at least not over this incident). But she will use this as a power play to b#tch-slap you into supplication and put herself back in the driver's seat of your relationship. So far that tactic is working out quite well for her, as you are already apologizing and pleading for forgiveness like a little b#tch.
A better approach, if you should find yourself in a similar situation again, would be to say: "As it happens, other women are sexually attracted to me besides you; just the same as other men are sexually attracted to you besides me. I can't control anyone else's words or actions and I should not be expected to. This is the society we live in, and if you can't handle things like this in a mature manner, then maybe we are not meant to be together." I guarantee her attitude would've taken a 180 degree turn after hearing that.
1) You gained power.
2) "Your girl" lost power.
Now "your girl" is doing anything a normal person would do in a similar situation-- she is trying to gain back the power that she lost. Believe me when I tell you, she has no desire to end her relationship with you (at least not over this incident). But she will use this as a power play to b#tch-slap you into supplication and put herself back in the driver's seat of your relationship. So far that tactic is working out quite well for her, as you are already apologizing and pleading for forgiveness like a little b#tch.
A better approach, if you should find yourself in a similar situation again, would be to say: "As it happens, other women are sexually attracted to me besides you; just the same as other men are sexually attracted to you besides me. I can't control anyone else's words or actions and I should not be expected to. This is the society we live in, and if you can't handle things like this in a mature manner, then maybe we are not meant to be together." I guarantee her attitude would've taken a 180 degree turn after hearing that.
OLD BUCK,
This is how I tend to see things...what would happen if you were coming in here asking for advice on what to do if the roles were reversed (e.g. your girlfriend posing for a picture with this random guy and getting the guys tongue inside her mouth).
So, my answer is...you could have avoided the situation. Instead, you allowed it. There is not victim in here other than your girlfriend.
This is how I tend to see things...what would happen if you were coming in here asking for advice on what to do if the roles were reversed (e.g. your girlfriend posing for a picture with this random guy and getting the guys tongue inside her mouth).
So, my answer is...you could have avoided the situation. Instead, you allowed it. There is not victim in here other than your girlfriend.
This is not a random woman he is dating. This is a woman in which he WAS having a good relationship. A woman that was treating him well. We should draw the line somewhere and treat good those that treat us well.drZaius09 said:
A real Man is not out there INTENTIONALLY hurting his women. If he wants to cheat...that's fine. As long as he doesn't hurt his woman (or get caught and consequently hurt her). But hurting his woman? If we are here for the purpose of intentionally hurting women that treat us well, then why should we expect?
He disrespected her. He embarrassed her. And he mistreated her. All of that was done in front of his friend and worst, in front of HER friend.
When it comes to attracting the opposite sex...attractive women have much more advantage over attractive men.
The chances of HE getting himself in similar situation are CONSIDERABLY less than SHE getting herself in similar situation.
And by he saying something like this to her (as you suggested)...it opens a can of worm. You see? It gives her the excuse to allow ANY MAN to touch her or do whatever. And then use the same excuse over him. So, yes... her attitute will take a 180 degree turn. Maybe with Bob from work or Tom the cute guy in the bus station. And with Jim the bartender and Jose the bouncer.
MY ADVICE
Say you didn't expect that reaction from that stranger. Admit that the situation was so shocking that you kind of frozed. Say that you kind of played along with that woman in the hopes she would leave. Admit you could have done more. And admit this is a learning experience and YOU won't allow it to happen again.
And then...let it go.
If she brings it up again...just tell her that you wish NOT to discuss this anymore.
And if she brings what her girlfriends and males have to say...tell her that you would respect ANY decision she mades. That you certainly hope it is HER decision and not one influenced by third parties. After all, one of the things you find attractive about her is her ability to think individually and without allowing the influence of others.
And leave it at that.
I dont care how much I might have messed up. Those words would never come out my mouth. If you must, express regret, but don't make ultimatums that set you up for the next time you make a mistake.... if this was a mistake.Latinoman said:
Decent rebuttal otherwise.... I dunno, guess i had to be there to say for sure where the faults were.
cordoncordon
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I agree with latino. How many of you would be saying she was a cheating beeoootch if the situation had been revesed?
I'm not saying the man here is entirely to blame, but at the same time if definetly appears as if he was going along with the flirtations of the woman.
I'm not saying the man here is entirely to blame, but at the same time if definetly appears as if he was going along with the flirtations of the woman.
Let me tell you something that allow some men last VERY long in relationships. And it is the ability to either B.S. his way out of trouble or simply get out of trouble.azanon said:
If he wants to salvage the relationship...then he has to do either one. And then LET IT REST.
Debating, bringing the thing back, etc. only allows for more debate. But being firm and serious (and even a little annoyed) while telling those things can and would put an end to her debate.
He is NOT making an ultimatum. He is simply saying it won't happen again.
If he does the same crap again...he might as well end the relationship. So is a moot point.
He has to put peace of mind in that woman's head (assuming he wants a relationship with her). He does that by saying it won't happen again. Plain and simple. Because happening again would end the relationship anyway.
Either way...if he cares about her...he won't put himself in that situation. And because his focus now is putting some peace of mind on her head (and END the discussion), then he might as well tell her it won't happen again. He won't supplicate. He would simply tell her. If she continues, then tell her one more time...but with a tone of annoyance.
She asked him if she could take a picture with him. His answer should have been "no". OR, "Only if my girlfriend is in the picture too."
He would have looked great.
Here is the thing...what does he win under the situation he got himself into? He is not getting laid with that woman. And he is not getting laid with his girlfriend. At least...using my style (and trust me, I have been in a LOT of trouble because of similar situations and not knowing how to react)...he would have accomplished two things:
1- Getting some puzzy (girlfriend appreciation)
2- Shown that he is marketable without making too much fuzz about it.
If he wanted to get that woman eventually...it would have been a matter of visiting the place ALONE in the future.
You probably didn't hurt your chances with girl A if it really happened like you said. That is, if girl B clearly kissed you and not the other way around. But a Gentleman never hurts a womans feelings by mistake. Question: what did the two girls rate? Were they both HB8's? Or was one a HB6 and the other a HB9?
Muzzlehatch
Don Juan
Hi there,
It seems that this incident, although you are completely innocent, has been a flashpoint for her. The fact that you are in this community means you are either a natural, or, as in my case, a student flirt. So the issue is really your whole attitude to other women, not just this one incident. Had it not have happened, tension would have built inexorably in the next few months anyway.
Striking the balance between having your woman see you as a sexual guy because other women want you, and her feeling uncomfortable is desperately difficult, and each woman is different. I tend to agree with drZaius though, I don't think you should be apologising for this incident. I would stand firm on that, but agree to talk seriously about your way with women. I personally would also give her some stick about her discussing your problems with other people. (She doesn't have to know you've posted on this board!).
As for the point above about her going with someone else, I strongly believe that you should have the absolute conviction that her being with you is the best possible choice she could make. Not that you're the best looking guy in the world, or the richest, or the most charming, but for her, you are the best man for her. If you secretly don't believe that, you should work on yourself to make it true.
Take care mate, hope it all works out.
It seems that this incident, although you are completely innocent, has been a flashpoint for her. The fact that you are in this community means you are either a natural, or, as in my case, a student flirt. So the issue is really your whole attitude to other women, not just this one incident. Had it not have happened, tension would have built inexorably in the next few months anyway.
Striking the balance between having your woman see you as a sexual guy because other women want you, and her feeling uncomfortable is desperately difficult, and each woman is different. I tend to agree with drZaius though, I don't think you should be apologising for this incident. I would stand firm on that, but agree to talk seriously about your way with women. I personally would also give her some stick about her discussing your problems with other people. (She doesn't have to know you've posted on this board!).
As for the point above about her going with someone else, I strongly believe that you should have the absolute conviction that her being with you is the best possible choice she could make. Not that you're the best looking guy in the world, or the richest, or the most charming, but for her, you are the best man for her. If you secretly don't believe that, you should work on yourself to make it true.
Take care mate, hope it all works out.
WestCoaster
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I'm with Latinoman on this one. His gf is acting naturally. I'm usually the first one to lay blame on the woman, but not in this case. Meanwhile, the other gal is stupid American wh-re who has no class or respect for others. Let me guess: When she's with other people, she talks about herself all the time. A CLASSY woman (see 5 percent of U.S. women) does not french kiss another gal's boyfriend, especially in front of the other gal.
People are confusing just who is the 'ho here, it's the slut who wanted her "picture" taken. The reason for that pic was to garner the attention the attention 'ho sought, and to make the other gal mad. It had NOTHING to do with being sexually attracted to the guy and everything to do with getting attention, being a 'ho, and trying to show up the guy's gf. The people who say go with the attention 'ho are nuts, she's just a 'ho who should be getting paid for her actions. Why not just be honest about it instead of trying to do something "clever" like french kissing a guy in front of his gf. Sh-t, make money, set up shop and be who you are, a 'ho.
I wouldn't explain much to the gf, however, just say it was a totally surprising situation, didn't expect it, it came out of nowhere, and move on. If the gf doesn't accept it, she has problems ... but in no way, shape, or form gravitate back to the attention 'ho.
People are confusing just who is the 'ho here, it's the slut who wanted her "picture" taken. The reason for that pic was to garner the attention the attention 'ho sought, and to make the other gal mad. It had NOTHING to do with being sexually attracted to the guy and everything to do with getting attention, being a 'ho, and trying to show up the guy's gf. The people who say go with the attention 'ho are nuts, she's just a 'ho who should be getting paid for her actions. Why not just be honest about it instead of trying to do something "clever" like french kissing a guy in front of his gf. Sh-t, make money, set up shop and be who you are, a 'ho.
I wouldn't explain much to the gf, however, just say it was a totally surprising situation, didn't expect it, it came out of nowhere, and move on. If the gf doesn't accept it, she has problems ... but in no way, shape, or form gravitate back to the attention 'ho.
So? She was a "random woman" at some point.Latinoman said:
We don't know that.
We don't know that. What, are you just going to take his word for it?
When did he stop treating her well?
Where are you getting this from? Where do you see him "intentionally hurting" her?
He did no such thing(s). But I'm not surprised to hear this from somebody so irrational and hypersensitive over the subject of respect.
OH MY GOD!
That's about the worst thing I could ever possibly imagine!!!Or in other words, this wouldn't even enter your thought process if... A) You were confident in your ability to satisfy your woman, and... B) You were confident in your ability to attract other women. Then you wouldn't give a sh#t what she did with other guys.
And then admit that you're a chump with an empty b#llsack.
Now let's ask ourselves ONE very simple, easy to answer, and RELEVANT question... Why in the hell should his "girlfriend" care about what this other girl does? By your own admission this other girl is a class-less skank and a disgraceful human being. Can you explain why ANYONE would get so charged-up over the actions of such a person? Why would his "girlfriend" even care? Why do all of you care?WestCoaster said:
Wait, wait... Let me look into my crystal ball and predict the next response... "We care because it's disrespectful! She disrespected everybody and I won't stand for it! Respect! Respect! Everyone must show me respect before I succumb to my own crippling insecurity!!!!! If I don't command the respect of total strangers, or a$$holes, or wh#res, I have nothing!!!"
how did girl B get her tongue down your throat? this is one where you would like to be able to go around and get everybody's version of what actually happened. I am quite sure there would be as many versions as there are witnesses. Your girl was hurt and disrespected just as you would be if the roles were reversed. I will say it once again for all the newbies here. BAD THINGS happen in bars where alcohol is being consumed in abundance. If you are in a relationship with a woman, NOT JUST DATING, and you go to bars together, BAD THINGS are bound to happen that Will jeopardize your relationships. Bars? Ok for casual dating. NOT OK for you and your woman to be spending time in consuming alcohol with raging hormones all around. Good luck repairing the damage here. I think you have a chance once she lets you stew for a while.
regards
regards
WestCoaster
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OK, Dr. Zias, of course it's about respect, and class, and dignity. The woman started off with that, "I know you from somewhere" and immediately tried to get on the case of the girlfriend.
Relationships are about respect. Frankly I think the other gal should've belted the french kisser in the nose and then kneed her in the groin and stomped on her when she was down on the ground.
It's not about insecurity, it's about another person trying to wield power over another, and not only that, purposely trying to embarrass someone in a crowd.
At that point the gloves are off and the ONLY way the 'ho is going to learn her lesson is to get either psychologically humiliated like the other girl got, or physically pummelled. I opt for both options.
All your stupid crying icons and exclamation marks mean nothing; it is about respect, and class and the 'ho should've been beaten down physically and psychologically by the other woman. Since she wasn't, she'll carry on in life with this attitude, no one calling her on her sh-t and stupid AFC boys smiling at her every devious move. Oh yeah, that's a good way to go through life -- not.
Sometimes life lessons need to be learned the hard way. My best friend popped the biggest smart-a$$ in town in grade school. Guess what? The guy was never a jerk to my friend again.
Sorry, that's the way the world works sometimes.
Relationships are about respect. Frankly I think the other gal should've belted the french kisser in the nose and then kneed her in the groin and stomped on her when she was down on the ground.
It's not about insecurity, it's about another person trying to wield power over another, and not only that, purposely trying to embarrass someone in a crowd.
At that point the gloves are off and the ONLY way the 'ho is going to learn her lesson is to get either psychologically humiliated like the other girl got, or physically pummelled. I opt for both options.
All your stupid crying icons and exclamation marks mean nothing; it is about respect, and class and the 'ho should've been beaten down physically and psychologically by the other woman. Since she wasn't, she'll carry on in life with this attitude, no one calling her on her sh-t and stupid AFC boys smiling at her every devious move. Oh yeah, that's a good way to go through life -- not.
Sometimes life lessons need to be learned the hard way. My best friend popped the biggest smart-a$$ in town in grade school. Guess what? The guy was never a jerk to my friend again.
Sorry, that's the way the world works sometimes.
realsmoothie
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VERY rarely. Usually it leads to an escalation... more people/gangs/countries, whatever.WestCoaster said:
I'm still not sure how you can "let" a girl french kiss you if you don't want to. Give me a break, this guy blew it big time.
drZaius,
When I give an opinion, I based my opinion on experience. Not on some "PUA" manual and not on some "SEDUCTION" manual.
{EDITED to delete LONG post sharing MY experiences}.
I respect your opinion and I can debate with you for hours. But I'm going to choose not to do it.
You see? I don't know what the original poster want.
Does he want his ego stroke because of some 'ho seeking attention (HER attention)? Does he want to fix his relationship? Or does he want to EVOLVE and master the issue of respect (self-respect, respect for others, respect earned), fairness, and masculinity.
If he cannot save his relationship...then when the time comes and he marries and have children...and faces for the first time a hurdle...then how can he survive the possibility of an unwanted divorce?
He messed up. Can he fix it? It comes down to that. But in order to fix things...he has to humble a little. That's acceptable from time to time. We win by making the other THINK that she won. And doing that is an art.
When I give an opinion, I based my opinion on experience. Not on some "PUA" manual and not on some "SEDUCTION" manual.
{EDITED to delete LONG post sharing MY experiences}.
I respect your opinion and I can debate with you for hours. But I'm going to choose not to do it.
You see? I don't know what the original poster want.
Does he want his ego stroke because of some 'ho seeking attention (HER attention)? Does he want to fix his relationship? Or does he want to EVOLVE and master the issue of respect (self-respect, respect for others, respect earned), fairness, and masculinity.
If he cannot save his relationship...then when the time comes and he marries and have children...and faces for the first time a hurdle...then how can he survive the possibility of an unwanted divorce?
He messed up. Can he fix it? It comes down to that. But in order to fix things...he has to humble a little. That's acceptable from time to time. We win by making the other THINK that she won. And doing that is an art.
For the same reason YOU should care if a drunk man approaches your girlfriend/fiance/wife asks her if they can take a picture together and then French kiss her in front of YOU and YOUR friend. And then she acts like nothing or in shock.
As I said...this is not a random chick he met that night.
This is a woman that is his girlfriend (e.g. relationship), which he took in a date...in which HIS friends and HER friends were present.
WestCoaster
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Again, I'm with Latinoman on this one. A lot of the world is about respect, and yes, I know the "gangs" take it too far, but this was an instance where the 'ho shouldn't have gotten off the hook. I can just picture her AFC guy friends behind her not doing anything with a nervous smile, hoping that by complying with her actions they stand the 1 in 1 million chance of getting her in the sack.
There's a good book out there called "The Sociopath Next Door." It says 1 out of 25 people in the world are sociopaths, not the kind who are killers, but the kind that have no thoughts, feelings, or empathy towards anyone else. This 'ho was a poster child for that. There are some ways of dealing with these people, ignoring them, or IMO, giving them either a psychological or physical beat down. She needed both of the latter, IMO.
These sociopaths continue on their rampant ways if they're not called on it or frankly, beaten up. I'm not an advocate of violence and am quite liberal in many of my viewpoints, however, in this instance, no way.
Another story of a sociopath with whom I went to high school with. No one was beyond this guy's physical or psychological wrath. His parents were very rich and he came from an athletic family, so teachers, coaches, and community members wouldn't touch him. He insulted, ripped on, and beat up fellow students on a daily basis with no one calling him on it.
He was an average athlete who thought he was great. He decided to play college football (though he wasn't good enough). The first day of practice he tried the sh-t he was pulling in high school, a teammate turned, popped him so hard that he broke his jaw that had to be wired shut later on. My whole hometown cheered gleefully. He quit the school, came back to town with his tail between his legs, much humbled, and frankly, almost a completely changed person.
Did he deserve the beat down? Hell yes.
There's a good book out there called "The Sociopath Next Door." It says 1 out of 25 people in the world are sociopaths, not the kind who are killers, but the kind that have no thoughts, feelings, or empathy towards anyone else. This 'ho was a poster child for that. There are some ways of dealing with these people, ignoring them, or IMO, giving them either a psychological or physical beat down. She needed both of the latter, IMO.
These sociopaths continue on their rampant ways if they're not called on it or frankly, beaten up. I'm not an advocate of violence and am quite liberal in many of my viewpoints, however, in this instance, no way.
Another story of a sociopath with whom I went to high school with. No one was beyond this guy's physical or psychological wrath. His parents were very rich and he came from an athletic family, so teachers, coaches, and community members wouldn't touch him. He insulted, ripped on, and beat up fellow students on a daily basis with no one calling him on it.
He was an average athlete who thought he was great. He decided to play college football (though he wasn't good enough). The first day of practice he tried the sh-t he was pulling in high school, a teammate turned, popped him so hard that he broke his jaw that had to be wired shut later on. My whole hometown cheered gleefully. He quit the school, came back to town with his tail between his legs, much humbled, and frankly, almost a completely changed person.
Did he deserve the beat down? Hell yes.
