Trump's Travel Ban

[BlueAlpha1]

Well when you get elected emperor, you can do things however you like. But as long as we still follow the court's interpretation of the Constitution...you know, like in that oath we make the president take...then it does not matter what race or religion you think it is a good idea to pick on, because doing so is unconstitutional. You might as well be having some arcane argument about Star Wars spaceships, or something else completely disconnected from reality.

Very bizarre interpretation of the Constitution. The first amendment says the government can't establish a religion, or prohibit citizens from practicing their own. It says nothing about immigration or enhanced screening at the airport when one religion happens to commit over 90% of the terrorism being done. And making Muslims a little uncomfortable at customs or the airport doesn't prohibit them from practicing their religion.

The onus is on moderate Muslims to get their religion together, not on us to be virtue signaling pacifists. No matter how hard you try with this tolerance gimmick, they're never going to love you. They're gonna laugh at this weakness. And no, "not all". Just the tens of millions who want to kill you.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Scary thought of the day:

Even if only 2% of the Muslim world are either terrorists or are sympathetic to the cause, that's still 32 million people.

Of course, 2% is wishful thinking at best. In some Muslim countries support for Sharia and suicide bombing is close to 100%. In some countries they won't even allow the polling to be done.

Even scarier thought of the day:

If 80% of the Muslim world are "moderate", and 20% are terrorists or are sympathetic, that's 320 million people.

 

[samspade]

Are Holland, Belgium, and India interventionist, neocon aggressor nations? When ISIS in Algeria points the knife at Rome and says we will not stop until we overthrow the Vatican, is that just those dang "Islamophobes" in Italy getting themselves targeted again?

This virtue signaling and "blame America first" is psychotic and is going to get us all killed.

Those countries aren't the US so I don't care what their policies are. I don't know why you quoted the words "Islamophobes" and "blame America first" when I did not say them.

But if you're saying that terrorism is a fact of life regardless of a country's foreign policy, then I agree with you. In that sense, we are wasting our time with nation-building and other neocon nonsense. I'm all for defense and striking back, and for strong borders to keep terrorists out. Not dikking around in countries like Syria and Libya with regime changes and arming one worthless faction to fight another in some stupid proxy war with Russia or whatever. So Assad may be a very very bad man - so what? He is not our leader and our opinion of him is irrelevant. Look at the worthless mess we created in Libya, just because the US thought it had some "moral" reason to kill Ghadaffi. So these countries are full of terrorists - so what? Keep them there. Any other nation with the proper firepower could have made the same rationalization to kill Presidents Clinton, Bush, or Obama, based on their multitudinous bombings and/or invasions of sovereign countries that did nothing to us. I'm holding out a sliver of hope that Trump won't bomb 7 different countries like Obama did, but I guess we'll see.

Scary thought of the day:

Even if only 2% of the Muslim world are either terrorists or are sympathetic to the cause, that's still 32 million people.

Are you living your life every day scared of strangers? You should be more scared of heart disease.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Those countries aren't the US so I don't care what their policies are. I don't know why you quoted the words "Islamophobes" and "blame America first" when I did not say them. But if you're saying that terrorism is a fact of life regardless of a country's foreign policy, then I agree with you. In that sense, we are wasting our time with nation-building and other neocon nonsense.

The point is that the "blowback" argument is typically meant to imply that America always "has it coming" because of our misadventures in the Middle East. But I just proved to you that 3 non-interventionist countries have been targets of radical Islamic terrorism in recent memory, and there are more examples.

These people want to kill you whether you are really nice (Germany) or really mean (USA) to them. Thus, the "blowback" principle really doesn't hold a lot of water. If we pulled every troop out of the middle east and gave them a trillion dollars to rebuild their nations, they'd still attack us ceaselessly. Violence and conquest is inherent in their religion.

Are you living your life every day scared of strangers? You should be more scared of heart disease.

You've almost got it, bro. You've got one foot in the door of reality and one foot in the door of virtue signaling, regressive leftism.

I've debated a lot of people on this topic and the talking points are always the same on your side, and this is one of them.

"Are you living your life every day scared of strangers? You should be more scared of heart disease."

Translation: "Don't worry about Problem A, because Problem B also exists."

Another flimsy argument similar to "Not all brown people are bad, wacist!"
Translation: "Look how tolerant I am!!!!!!"

So until terrorism is the #1 cause of death in the country we should turn a blind eye to it? No thanks chief. I can worry about heart disease and terrorism at the same time.

 

[Trunks]

No, not that. You've been listening to a little too much Ron Paul, "Dr" Jill Stein, and the borderline conspiracy theorist "independents"

Talk to the citizens of Amsterdam, Brussels, or Mumbai about "blowback".

Are Holland, Belgium, and India interventionist, neocon aggressor nations? When ISIS in Algeria points the knife at Rome and says we will not stop until we overthrow the Vatican, is that just those dang "Islamophobes" in Italy getting themselves targeted again?

This virtue signaling and "blame America first" is psychotic and is going to get us all killed.

Holland and Belgium are US allies and NATO members, so some of that could be spilled-over blowback... but if your point is that Muslim terrorism can occur unprovoked, I do not disagree. That doesn't mean blowback isn't real, it simply amplifies the frequency/intensity of terrorist attacks.

 

[Trunks]

If we pulled every troop out of the middle east and gave them a trillion dollars to rebuild their nations, they'd still attack us ceaselessly. Violence and conquest is inherent in their religion.

Leaving them alone includes not giving them any aid or money.

 

[Bible_Belt]

They're not exactly thrilled about the way we militarily prop up Israel, either.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Another damn illegal immigrant stealing an American job:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/...u-to-jury-ate-fake-passport-on-way-to-us.html
Chicago White Sox's Jose Abreu to jury: I ate fake passport on way to US

 

[BlueAlpha1]

They're not exactly thrilled about the way we militarily prop up Israel, either.

Right on cue, bring up the Jews. Mhm, "Zionism" is the reason the threat of radical Islamic terrorism is growing here...and in Belgium, and Amsterdam, and Paris, and Sydney, and Kashmir...

How dare those 7 million Jews want to exist among 250 million Arabs, and on a microscopic part of "their land" no less!?

 

[Bible_Belt]

How dare those 7 million Jews want to exist among 250 million Arabs, and on a microscopic part of "their land" no less!?

The Jews can do whatever the fvck they want, but they can also do without the $3.8 Billion a year we give them in aid. We can't pay for our own schools and social programs, but we've always got money to give to Israel. They have a higher standard of living than we do. They should be giving us aid.

 

[Bible_Belt]

After ICE making national news with small-town stupidity, suddenly the restaurant manager's hearing got fast-tracked and they are letting him out of jail for the moment. Other detainees have to wait 6-12 months to get that hearing...all while your tax dollars get funneled to the GEO group, which is the real point of all of this bullsh!t. Hate is for stupid people. The smart people are the ones pushing your buttons to make money off that hate.

http://thesouthern.com/news/local/c...cle_4064034e-107f-5d7c-9296-4df2f13f5dcb.html
West Frankfort man detained by ICE granted bond, expected to be released today

 

[BlueAlpha1]

The Jews can do whatever the fvck they want, but they can also do without the $3.8 Billion a year we give them in aid. We can't pay for our own schools and social programs, but we've always got money to give to Israel. They have a higher standard of living than we do. They should be giving us aid.

But fiscal conservatism in America and self-determination for the Jews wasn't your original point.

We were talking about why Islamic countries hate us, and you basically said propping up Israel was a big part of it, but I've given several examples of how they target non-interventionist, almost pacifist countries just as much.

And to whoever said "well Belgium and Holland are part of NATO!!!", stop the splitting hairs silliness. Look at some of the countries in NATO. They're allies on paper only. Muslims have zero legitimate grievances against countries like Luxembourg or Slovenia. Give me a break.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Ending US support for Israel was a specific demand of Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda, which they started making long before 9/11

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Ending US support for Israel was a specific demand of Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda, which they started making long before 9/11

Do you believe 9/11 wouldn't have happened if the USA had cut off all support to Israel?

I don't that argument holds up when you consider the examples I've given of them targeting countries whose foreign policy cannot be blamed in the slightest. I think 9/11 still happens anyway.

Yes, they really hate America for taking the fight to them. But they hate other infidel countries for being so weak, and the suicide bombs happen either way. You can't win with savages.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Al Qaeda was actually a lot more reasonable than ISIS. The latter got kicked out of the former for being too radical.

My criticism of the US support of Israel is meant as a critique of the military-industrial complex, who receive a lot of that money, and not as anything against Jewish people. There's been a wave of Trump-inspired violence lately against Jewish cemeteries and community centers. The last thing I want to do is encourage such stupidity

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Al Qaeda was actually a lot more reasonable than ISIS. The latter got kicked out of the former for being too radical.

My criticism of the US support of Israel is meant as a critique of the military-industrial complex, who receive a lot of that money, and not as anything against Jewish people. There's been a wave of Trump-inspired violence lately against Jewish cemeteries and community centers. The last thing I want to do is encourage such stupidity

I agree 100%. First in that Al-Qaeda was actually Diet-ISIS, and what rose out of the disastrous War On Terror was a head far bigger than the one we cut off.

The fact that we can come to common ground in this thread is a good thing.

We latch onto these identity politics too much. There is no group I detest right now more than the regressive left. For that, I've been called a "white supremacist" and "Islamophobe".

But the funny thing is I can't stand these new alt-right radicals either. They're a bunch of societal rejects preaching Nazism, anti-Semitism, and conspiracy theories. I am a defender of Israel because they get a bad rap for defending themselves against savages. And for this, I've been called a "Zionist".

You can't be a "white supremacist" and a "Zionist" at the same time. The only thing white supremacists and radical Islamic terrorists converge on are the Jews. You can actually go to Holocaust Denial conferences in Iran where alt-right white nationalists and Muslim terrorist sympathizers drink tea and blame the Jews for everything.

I also hated the Neo-Cons long before there was a regressive left and alt-right. I don't really fit in with any of these people.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Obviously we'll disagree about the judge's actions in the article below. But whether she was right or wrong, it is still remarkable to have a judge helping anyone run from the cops. Judges absolutely detest ICE raids on their courtrooms.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/02/us/undocumented-immigrant-escapes-courtroom-trnd/
Judge scrutinized after undocumented immigrant escapes courtroom

 

[Bible_Belt]

Here's another article about the restaurant manager near me. The local police wrote letters to the judge supporting him, then the town bailed him out and gave him a ride home.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/01/...-reprieve.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
Backed by Law Enforcement, Undocumented Immigrant Gets Reprieve
An immigration judge granted his release only hours before, during a hearing in Kansas City, Mo., noting that he had received a surprising array of supportive letters about Mr. Hernandez from leaders in West Frankfort, Ill., including the county prosecutor, deputy chief of police and a retired member of the Illinois State Police.

“You don’t typically see this kind of documentation,” the immigration judge, Justin W. Howard, said, adding that he had given “particular weight” to the backing from law enforcement officials.

In a phone call late Wednesday, during a two-hour ride from the detention center to his home in West Frankfort, Mr. Hernandez said he was relieved, tired and grateful.

The ride was in a vehicle lent by a West Frankfort car dealer. Donations had come in to help with the bond.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Real cops to ICE: "please stop impersonating us"

http://laist.com/2017/03/02/ice_detention.php

especially problematic about the situation is that the ICE officials who detained Avelica-Gonzalez were in unmarked cars, and they were wearing jackets that said "police." Last week, city leaders including Mayor Eric Garcetti released a letter urging ICE agents to stop identifying themselves as "police"—a practice that is officially legal.

"We have worked for decades in L.A. to build stronger trust between immigrant communities and law enforcement. Misleading practices like these undermine the good faith and spirit of cooperation that is so integral to our city's safety and security," Mayor Eric Garcetti said in a statement to LAist.

 

[Bible_Belt]

www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/03/06/travel-ban-do-over-our-view/98532130/

Travel Ban II, the sequel, has now been released.