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The Angel and the Devil

STR8UP

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I was just watching The Girls Next Door, and they were bringing in new prospects to audition for the magazine.

During her interview, one of the girls mentioned something about having grown up in a conservative, churchgoing family, and that it was difficult for her to resolve the conflict between being a "good" girl and posing naked in a magazine.

She said something about it being like having a little Angel telling her "no, no", and a little Devil telling her "Just do it! Have fun!".

That got me thinking. Even if a woman isn't that religious, there is enormous pressure for them to uphold a certain standard set forth by the collective attitude that is held by society at that moment in time. So there is always a struggle between the Angel and the Devil.

This is important to understand because women are engaged in a constant struggle between doing what is "right" versus what their emotions are telling them to do.

Is there any wonder why women seem so whacked out at times? Most women have a strong need to conform to society's standards (with good reason), yet they are faced with constant temptation to step outside of those boundaries.

It's like having experimented with a drug and having a good experience, then walking away so you don't become addicted, just to have someone on every corner going "Psssst....c'mere. I got the GOOD stuff!".

So much of a woman's actions are a result of this conflict.

Why does she let you rub her pu$$y but she won't let you fukk her? Why does she make you wait three dates to have sex?

For a man, it's all about helping a woman resolve this inner conflict.

I see a lot of men being overtly judgmental. Why? A woman is going to do stuff that men (and society in general) will frown upon. And the more she is criticized for this behavior, the more she is going to hide it.

I firmly believe that I am able to see a more realistic side of women that I know, due to the fact that I don't play judge and jury.

A woman is a shape-shifting creature. She will mold herself to the ideal that YOU project upon her. If you are the judgmental type, she will divulge only the information she believes you can handle. If you let her know that you understand that she is only HUMAN, she will show you a completely different side of herself.

So who would you rather be? Guy "A" who projects a judgmental attitude that causes women to become even better a actresses? Or guy "B" who is allowed to see what women are REALLY like?

Being guy "B" works for me, but I get the idea that some guys would rather see a glossed over version of the female species than face the fact that they aren't perfect. Some guys just can't handle the truth.
 

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lookyoung

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This is an interesting topic. I also rather prefer to be guy B. I have asked quite a few girls that I have banged how many guys they slept with? I always got either 3 or 6. I don't know what it is with those 2 numbers. But anyway I no longer ask because the past is the past and its none of my business. besides there is no foul proof way of knowing how many partners a girl has been with. Now that I have gotten older I really could care less, the past is the past and every situation is different.

That being said I think if a woman has a high interest level in you the devil side of her is going to come out. I think when a girl has a high interest level you just need to embrace your masculine nature. You could say anything to a girl with a high interest level.

On a first date I could tell a girl with a high interest level you have really nice lips and I bet you give the best *******s... She will react in a positive way. You will probably even turn her on. But if a guy who she has a low interest level says that she will say he is a disrespectful pervert and say I can't believe you said that I am not that type of girl. Woman are funny that way.
 
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STR8UP said:
I see a lot of men being overtly judgmental. Why? A woman is going to do stuff that men (and society in general) will frown upon. And the more she is criticized for this behavior, the more she is going to hide it.

I firmly believe that I am able to see a more realistic side of women that I know, due to the fact that I don't play judge and jury.

A woman is a shape-shifting creature. She will mold herself to the ideal that YOU project upon her. If you are the judgmental type, she will divulge only the information she believes you can handle. If you let her know that you understand that she is only HUMAN, she will show you a completely different side of herself.

So who would you rather be? Guy "A" who projects a judgmental attitude that causes women to become even better a actresses? Or guy "B" who is allowed to see what women are REALLY like?

Being guy "B" works for me, but I get the idea that some guys would rather see a glossed over version of the female species than face the fact that they aren't perfect. Some guys just can't handle the truth.
I'm a guy "A" - it is not that we can't handle the truth - it is that we want to know the truth so that we may direct our own fate and not be misled by a liar!!!

Women have natural shame - this is part of their femininity - hors have no shame and are thus artificial constructs and they lie to portray themselves differently because they don't like their true ugly self and correctly surmise that men wouldn't like them either!!!
 

lookyoung

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Last Man Standing said:
I'm a guy "A" - it is not that we can't handle the truth - it is that we want to know the truth so that we may direct our own fate and not be misled by a liar!!!

Women have natural shame - this is part of their femininity - hors have no shame and are thus artificial constructs and they lie to portray themselves differently because they don't like their true ugly self and correctly surmise that men wouldn't like them either!!!

If we could know the truth than this would be great. But there is no way to know the truth. A woman will never tell us the amount of sexual partners she had. There are girls that tell men they are virgins and they are not. A man will never know for sure what a girl has done in the past. In this day and age I prefer to be guy B. If we lived in a society were things are the way they should be than you have valid points..
 
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lookyoung said:
If we lived in a society were things are the way they should be than you have valid points..
Truth is the standard and where we should be! A lie goes against the natural standard and is the enemy of truth! As I stated - the reason they lie is because they know that their sexual actions are wrong and go against the feminine standard - it is a form of deceit - so you can never trust the women of today!!

And Yes, you will eventually know it's a lie because a lie cannot live forever - merely observe her actions and dress and you will know if she is a virgin!!
 

ketostix

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STR8UP said:
So who would you rather be? Guy "A" who projects a judgmental attitude that causes women to become even better a actresses? Or guy "B" who is allowed to see what women are REALLY like?

Being guy "B" works for me, but I get the idea that some guys would rather see a glossed over version of the female species than face the fact that they aren't perfect. Some guys just can't handle the truth.
As usual iqqi doesn't know what she's talking about this is great stuff.

I think a lot of guy "A" types also fall into the type that aren't so much judgemental as they are naive and brainwashed for lack of a better term. What I mean is it's not so much they're not judgemental, they are, as it is like you said they would rather believe as you said a glossed over version of women than as women really are. So women pick up on these type A's mentality and feed them what they want to believe, further leading these guys into deception and manipulation. The problem is these women see them as gullible and if anything misbehave more with these guys.

Whereas with a type B guy she doesn't feel the need to hide things but more importantly she realize you're not so gullible. You see things for what they are and will see when she's actually crossing the line of hat you will tolerate and accept.
 
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The gullible ones are the type Bs who embrace the hor and the lie that eventually leads to his demise!!
 

ketostix

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Last Man Standing said:
The gullible ones are the type Bs who embrace the hor and the lie that eventually leads to his demise!!
Type A's embrace the hor, they're just doing it unwittingly. That was my point. What a type B person is willing to accept or tolerate is a separate issue.
 
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Last Man Standing said:
The gullible ones are the type Bs who embrace the hor and the lie that eventually leads to his demise!!
But their decision is based on a lie and if the truth was known they wouldn't embrace such!! In principal they reject the hor!
 

MikeYikes122

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taiyuu_otoko said:
There are tons of reasons. Fear of being labeled a slut, fear of being ostracized by her friends, fear of giving it up too early and losing the guy because of lack of interest. I'm sure every guy on this board has banged some chick on the first night and just lost interest in her shortly thereafter.
 

KarmaSutra

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I have 3 things to say:

1. iqqi is NOT drunk. S/he is just sullying another of STR8UP's threads to pick a fight. How novel.

2. The angel/devil is merely an excuse to act on our natural impulses. It's how we rationalize allowing ourselves to indulge in what society deems "regrettable behaviour".

3. Men and women have a need to avoid being observed as guilty which is why we wear many different faces and share various facades whenever a particular objective or need arises.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Congratulations to LMS for being the only guy I've ever seen quote himself to give himself an inflammatory response!
 

romangod

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To a certain extent a guy has to be judgemental in the type of woman he picks. He has to make a judgement on whether she would be good for him or will in the long run cause him pain and misery. One just needs to read some of the topics on these boards to see the men that didn't judge properly. This only matters if he is seeking a LTR. Cheap ONS's are a different thing with different inherant risks from unwanted pregnancies to STDs. Personally, I'm done with cheap sex and ONS's. I've used my nine lives and survived without any complications that could have ruined my life. No more.

Women are dealing with as many struggles as men in the complicated world of Sex, Drugs and Rock n Roll. From what I can see they are failing miserably to the detriment of themselves and the men they are in contact with.

In you're scenario of So who would you rather be? Guy "A" who projects a judgmental attitude that causes women to become even better a actresses? Or guy "B" who is allowed to see what women are REALLY like?
I would choose a combination of both. I wouldn't project a judgemental attitude but I would still have one that I kept to myself. As for seeing what women are really like, I feel I've got a grip on it and would wade through the minefield cautiously. The consequences of going in blindly could be catastrophic. Cheers!
 

romangod

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Congratulations to LMS for being the only guy I've ever seen quote himself to give himself an inflammatory response!

:rockon: I was thinking the same thing. Still, he is our John the Baptist preaching in the wilderness. To me, he's right on the money most of the time. Cheers!
 

squirrels

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Congratulations to LMS for being the only guy I've ever seen quote himself to give himself an inflammatory response!
Lawl!

Anyway...to STR8UP, you're absolutely right. Especially about the importance of projecting the right frame onto the girl.

If you act like sex is something dirty or nasty and you have to compensate her for being willing to give it up, or you act in a non-kinesthetic way as if "touching isn't acceptable", etc...she will respond in kind to the "angel" on one shoulder and follow the frame you've set up. If you instead act in a way that shows that sexuality and kinesthetics are just natural behavior, all in "good fun", then she'll respond to the "devil".

Women are sold two stories at once about sex...that it's "good" and that it's "bad". It's your responsibility to make her listen to one and forget the other. :D
 

ketostix

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squirrels said:
Lawl!

Anyway...to STR8UP, you're absolutely right. Especially about the importance of projecting the right frame onto the girl.

If you act like sex is something dirty or nasty and you have to compensate her for being willing to give it up, or you act in a non-kinesthetic way as if "touching isn't acceptable", etc...she will respond in kind to the "angel" on one shoulder and follow the frame you've set up. If you instead act in a way that shows that sexuality and kinesthetics are just natural behavior, all in "good fun", then she'll respond to the "devil".

Women are sold two stories at once about sex...that it's "good" and that it's "bad". It's your responsibility to make her listen to one and forget the other. :D
Right on. This is along the lines of what I was saying. Type "A's" often times has a "hor" pretending to be a "good" girl to him. Is there anything worse than a girl playing the good girl role with you while she plays the slut with others?
 

squirrels

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ketostix said:
Right on. This is along the lines of what I was saying. Type "A's" often times has a "hor" pretending to be a "good" girl to him. Is there anything worse than a girl playing the good girl role with you while she plays the slut with others?
Despite PRL's idealistic musings, every woman has a little bit of "hor" in her.
 

STR8UP

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Since iqqi's posts got deleted maybe this can turn into a decent discussion.

lookyoung said:
That being said I think if a woman has a high interest level in you the devil side of her is going to come out. I think when a girl has a high interest level you just need to embrace your masculine nature. You could say anything to a girl with a high interest level.

On a first date I could tell a girl with a high interest level you have really nice lips and I bet you give the best *******s... She will react in a positive way. You will probably even turn her on. But if a guy who she has a low interest level says that she will say he is a disrespectful pervert and say I can't believe you said that I am not that type of girl. Woman are funny that way.
That's exactly it.

A high interest chick will ride with the devil every time.

It's amazing how once you cross into that territory you can basically do no wrong, unless you turn into a pu$$y. You can do and say almost anything and all it does is intensify attraction. But until you reach that point you have to be careful how you say things cause if she's still not sure if she likes you, she will spin the same actions and comments into NEGATIVES.
 
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