Serious question: Should I give up on attractive women?

[skinnyguy]

So for the past week, I have been pretty grumpy on this site and I am sorry. I've been extremely frustrated with myself and resorted to trolling. For that I would like to apologize.

Now, moving on. For the past 12 years, I have talked to hundreds of women, in all walks of life - clubs, malls, on the street, etc. Fewer than 10 have shown genuine interest in me. I've primarily been approaching 7's and up.

I know that I'm no Matt Damon. So, this brings me to the question: Should I stop trying to get an attractive woman to date me? It has been tough to grapple with this one, since it's extremely hard for me to date someone that I'm not attracted to but considering my past failures, it's also hard to hold on to false hope. Every once in a while, I'll get lucky, but overall I'm extremely lonely and longing for a relationship with a girl who actually wants to be with ME. To be honest, I do feel like scum for even searching for hot chicks because it makes me feel so superficial and hypocritical for deriding women who do the same thing.

What makes me happy is going to a club or bar, talking to a girl and having a great conversation with her that is sexual in nature (i.e. not friend zone). I don't even care that much about taking her back to my place. I just want to meet a girl and know that she's into me. For several years, I have gone out to clubs on Friday and Saturday (usually on my own) because I feel like if I stay at home I'll be depressed. When I come back from the club, I'm actually even more depressed because I didn't get any numbers or hook up with anyone and this has just turned into a downward spiral. I do feel extremely pathetic because I thought that by now (I'm 31) I'd be more established and not worrying about stupid little things like this. In an ideal world, I wouldn't be going to clubs at all.

Advice please?

 

[GetFit66]

Pic ?

Perhaps your game/approach is wrong ?

Pic?

 

[adam225]

Forget about women - concentrate on YOURSELF. YOU DO NOT NEED A WOMEN. WHAT YOU NEED IS TO LEARN HOW TO BE HAPPY IN YOURSELF. When you've done that you can go after what ever women you want....

 

[skinnyguy]

Forget about women - concentrate on YOURSELF. YOU DO NOT NEED A WOMEN. WHAT YOU NEED IS TO LEARN HOW TO BE HAPPY IN YOURSELF. When you've done that you can go after what ever women you want....

Fair enough, but how exactly is it possible to be happy with myself if I'm not dating anyone? It's a cycle you see...when you're alone, you know that it's because no one wants you and it kills your confidence, making it harder to attract women.

 

[adam225]

Nope, you're looking for an external object to make you happy (which will never happen). Before you go after women you need to learn how to be totally happy in your own skin with WHO YOU ARE. After all, how long do you think a relationship will last if you're not ??

When I read your posts I get the impression you're still trying to find yourself. Embrace your hobbies, interests & what ever makes you feel good. You don't need a women to be complete - you need yourself. Trust me. Build your personality and go from there. Stop treating women like a drug - if you don't they'll always be on top of your mind and you'll be on a constant up & down roller coaster.

 

[Mike32ct]

So for the past week, I have been pretty grumpy on this site and I am sorry. I've been extremely frustrated with myself and resorted to trolling. For that I would like to apologize.

Now, moving on. For the past 12 years, I have talked to hundreds of women, in all walks of life - clubs, malls, on the street, etc. Fewer than 10 have shown genuine interest in me. I've primarily been approaching 7's and up.

I can relate to this. I sarged for over 8 years. I didn't necessary focus on a particular looks range though.

I know that I'm no Matt Damon. So, this brings me to the question: Should I stop trying to get an attractive woman to date me? It has been tough to grapple with this one, since it's extremely hard for me to date someone that I'm not attracted to but considering my past failures, it's also hard to hold on to false hope. Every once in a while, I'll get lucky, but overall I'm extremely lonely and longing for a relationship with a girl who actually wants to be with ME. To be honest, I do feel like scum for even searching for hot chicks because it makes me feel so superficial and hypocritical for deriding women who do the same thing.

I know how you feel. BUT, you've scored a few times. That means you don't look like Shrek III lol. That's the good news.

It IS a very slim odds / low return game for most guys. It's normal. A 10 percent close rate (or higher) is elite territory. Realistic typical numbers are more like 1 percent.

What makes me happy is going to a club or bar, talking to a girl and having a great conversation with her that is sexual in nature (i.e. not friend zone). I don't even care that much about taking her back to my place. I just want to meet a girl and know that she's into me. For several years, I have gone out to clubs on Friday and Saturday (usually on my own) because I feel like if I stay at home I'll be depressed. When I come back from the club, I'm actually even more depressed because I didn't get any numbers or hook up with anyone and this has just turned into a downward spiral. I do feel extremely pathetic because I thought that by now (I'm 31) I'd be more established and not worrying about stupid little things like this. In an ideal world, I wouldn't be going to clubs at all.


I can relate to this too. It's not all about scoring. Sometimes, yin just want some company and fun conversation. If there was a place where I could go and actually TALK to females regularly, I would go there. I mean a place where conversation is WELCOME. I don't know of such place.
Advice please?

The other thing I see is "club addiction." This is where you actually feel guilty when you don't go out. I remember this too. I would drive to the club every Friday and Saturday night on autopilot as if I was doing a regular commute to work lol. It became so routine. Besides age, the reason I phased it out was the volume was getting to me, and I was very concerned about my hearing.

But back to your question....

I'm not necessarily saying give up the game. But definitely start phasing out "forced cold approaches." I get the sense that you ONLY approach her because she's there and a 7+. You need to greatly REDUCE your number of approaches.

Use your intuition. Which girl do you have a GOOD feeling about and realistically believe you have a chance with and most importantly BELIEVE that you might click with? She might not be the hottest but hopefully still passes the boner test.

 

[GS750]

I think hitting the club is making it worse. That's where the odds are stacked against you and most guys (me included) due to the fact that there are ton of guys there either as good looking as you or better. Hotties have their pic at those places because they are surrounded by horny dudes. As Adam stated, work on yourself. Instead of going to a bar/club, hit the gym. This will improve your confidence and your overall well being and you wont feel depressed when you get home. You'll naturally be more attractive to girls if you get yourself into kickass shape and you'll feel better too.

 

[RedZone]

A lot of guys think this way and I really feel bad for them. They think they need some girl in their life to complete them and make them happy. If not happy with yourself first though it will never work out.

 

[adam225]

Exactly - it's all about YOU. YOU are number 1; not anyone else. I spend my life enjoying it for what it is. F*ck chasing after anything. We're only on this planet for a short time.

 

[jay07]

Being single is depressing?

Is it worse than meeting a chick you think you love, knocking her up with twins, 3 years later getting a divorce, her taking half of what you bought and worked for, on yop of paying 20k a year for your two kids you werent ready for?

Or you could be single, buy a new truck. Get that gym membership, go to the local bar on friday night in your new clothes and confidence and pick up the sloot to break that new vehicle in.

 

[Epimanes]

Have you read kill your desperation by pook? Or Be a man? Its in the dj bible. Read it. Probably the 2 most important threads ever.

In my town there is a singles activity club .. They do stuff as a group of random singles and mingle and hook up during the dates. All the dates seem to be action dates so that's perfect. You get to meet up with other like minded singles doing fun shyt. What better way to find someone doing something your enjoying. Hiking... Rock climbing... Tough mudder... All sorts of "action" based activites that don't include getting intoxicated beyond comprehenshion.

Look into that kind of stuff and stay away from bar stars. Work out and put on some muscle. Working out releases endorphines which increase your serotinin receptors and you become happier. I know I feel like a sack of shyt when I miss a workout now.

Epi

 

[skinnyguy]

In my opinion, yes. However, this is only possible if you cut out p0rn and media that makes male standards extremely high. I am lucky to be able to score 8's fairly regularly because I honestly don't know if I could maintain an erection with a 5 or 6. But I believe I would be better off in the long run if I dated down.

I hear you man. When you're with a girl and you can't finish it's embarrassing (I know from experience).

I'm kind of the bookworm type, which of course is repulsive to club chicks, but I just don't know where to look for girls my type. The library? People don't talk to each other there.

 

[GS750]

Also a good read:

http://realmademen.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/nightclubs-are-your-worst-enemy/
http://realmademen.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/night-clubs-force-impossible-perfection/

 

[JoeMarron]

When you're approaching women but you keep failing always go back to the fundamentals. Work on your style, fitness, body language, social skills, etc. It sounds to me that you don't even like clubs so don't waste time trying to pick up chicks there. I've never set foot in a club and I don't plan on ever doing so. If you chat up chicks wherever you go, you're more likely to find one that's interested in you. Also there's no shame in lowering your standards. As long as she passes the boner test go for it. I'd rather be having sex with semi attractive chicks than being picky and celibate.

 

[MaddXMan]

Not libraries, but how about a huge bookstore, maybe where they serve coffee? It's worth a try for some pickups. Maybe get a part time evening job at a bookstore where you would have a chance to pick up on female customers. Or try a meetup group about reading or some other activity you enjoy. If it is full of nerds you don't have to go back. In my town there is a group, the Bike and Beer Wednesday group, that rides around and finishes with drinks in a pub. Good social proof. Clubs are not the end all be all, neither is internet dating. I'm pushing myself right now to be creative and find ways to naturally interact with women..........

I met one girlfriend at a clothing store, by going up and talking to her. When I'm talking to an match.com chick, and that story comes up, their eyes always light up and they say something like "I wish that would happen to me, that a guy would come up and talk to me." They WANT that. Just gotta approach and be willing to get shot down.

 

[dasein]

If you are already doing some of these things, ignore what I'm about to post.

1. Attractive women IME are the ones most interested in sex and dating, they prioritize their looks and bodies because they are more sexual in nature, and attracting men and sex is more important to them. So it's a mistake to lower your sights hoping lesser attractive women will respond better. Less attractive women are IME more likely to trade sex for a relationship, not to have sex on its own. In the distant past I tried that to counterproductive results. Don't repeat my mistake.

2. Stop clubs and bars until you have an established social network in place consisting of men and women. Seek out and create a broad network of people from all walks and ages and socialize with them. Everyone knows single women, and you will find yourself meeting women with more social value that way. If your social life to date consists of going out drinking with some dudes, get away from that until you have a real social network in place. Charities, clubs, outdoor interests are places to start such networks. Trying to do bars before having a preexisting social network is a mistake. Most of your meeting of new women should take place within this network, not going out to bars and clubs.

3. Once you have a network and getting options from within it regularly, -then- it's time to do nightlife from a position of strength. Seek to go out with single or married people of both genders. Going out with husband and wife or groups of women who are friends is a great bootstrap, especially if they like you and are attractive. Never just randomly go to this or that place, pick 2-4 places where attractive women are and go there to the exclusion of other places. Get there before it's noisy, befriend the staff, remember their names, remind them of yours. Tip well. Over time, these few places will become your home turf. This will be apparent to those around you, the staff will help you. When an attractive woman walks into a place, it's her home turf by default, you must level that scale by proactive effort. If a place doesn't bear fruit over several months, nix it and add another. The end goal is to have 3-4 productive night spots to hit in a circuit.

4. Make the circuit of these home turf places in a defined way, no more than one drink in each, a certain time spent in each. Then move on to next. Don't get drunk, do that other times, this is your meet and greet time. Try to hit each place at a time just before crowds, get the lay of the land, reinforce your staff relations there, learn the power locations to hang out in a place. Don't be just walking back and forth or eyeing the whole place, scoping around nervously, you already know what's there because you are on home turf. Make one circuit then get to a preordained spot that will put women next to you (not the bathroom though). Stay there only as long as there are options. Imagine approaching a group of 2-3 women and the waitress walks up while you are talking to them "Hey Bill, you need anything?" Instant social value. Women see other women you came with touching you and laughing with you, focusing attention on you. Instant social value. Women see a bartender already has your drink ready when you get to a crowded bar? Instant social value. Going into clubs and bars without preexisting social value reinforcement in place is a mistake, just makes you the average bar hopping schmo rolling dice that often roll up loser waste of time nights. Most importantly, go home on nights where options don't arise. Don't close down bars, don't try to pick up drunks, get your sleep and avoid hangovers. This allows you to spend your days in your social network doing things and not laying on the couch playing xbox nursing a hangover.

Anyway, I imagine this stuff is already covered in guides here. Good luck changing things around.

 

[yyc12]

^^^I get the feeling the OP is a strong introvert, and thus will not have the energy and honest desire to go through ALL that work. The above usually happens organically. I mean, has anyone ever been able to force a solid social network together and actually enjoy everyone's company?

 

[dasein]

It's not much work, just takes some minor behavior adjustment and time. Certainly easier than learning and instrument or a language. Good point that many people do this naturally, but more and more today in textyworld, many men don't ever form meaningful social networks at all, then run out to bars and wonder why they aren't getting what they want. The guys who are getting with the women at clubs and bars are the ones who showed up at the preclub social event and got social preclearance. That's usually me, and when these tuque wearing tryhards rush up with lines and such, they are dead in the water. I'm not ever going to tell them why though, because they usually start a transparent, rude AMOG routine rather than engaging me as a guy who might be willing to help them out.

IMO most "introverts" have simply been raised to be socially lazy and don't have any psychological impediments to forming social networks, but only inertia and bad habits impeding them. Getting women for whatever purpose is ridiculously easy once you have the power of an established social network behind you, and forming that is IME much easier than learning all kinds of routines for bars and clubs and capitalizing on them. I'm a bit older though, near 40, so YMMV especially if you are much younger. While in NYC years ago, I went to an outdoor showing of "Grease" with some single GFs against my better judgment, and had my eyes opened well and fully. I had my choice of women that night at nearby bars, and have just rinsed-repeated since. Get to them before they hit the bars and clubs and systemize the few bars you go to for success. Start off with a group of people who have had dinner or an event, and your chances of meeting other women once out on the town skyrocket. This isn't some basic thing in a guide somewhere here? If not I'm surprised it's not.

 

[Zarky]

Dude, you're making the big mistake that most young guys make.

You're trying to go from the mailroom to CEO overnight. You're trying to go from nothing to banging HB7+s. Ain't gonna happen.

As I've said time and time and time again here and elsewhere, you have to start out with chicks who aren't very hot.

In your position, you've got to be more interested in women who are into you rather than vice-versa. Take any woman who is into you, a 1, 2 or 3 if need be.

Then, once you've gotten a rotation of them, you can move up.

For some reason guys on SS don't like to hear this. They think that every man "should" be able to go out and bang 7s-10s if the guy "works on himself" and becomes "the best man he can be" etc etc etc.

Doesn't work that way. If you want to be a baseball star you've got to play on sh*tty sandlot teams, then AA and AAA teams making no money for years. Then, if you're good enough, you can move into the majors.

The only people this doesn't apply to are naturals. Guys who are so naturally gifted and talented that they go straight from high school to the major leagues. But if you're posting on this board (or even just reading it ), you're not a natural. Sorry. So you have to work your way up from the bottom.

Date chicks you're not into. Develop a rotation. Over the course of months and years, swap out the least attractive ones with more attractive ones. Work your way slowly up the ladder. It ain't pretty but hat's how it works for guys like you and me.

The guys who b*tch and whine about it and tell you that you "deserve" hot women and no man should date women he's not interested in are the guys who have no women at all. They're KJs and are bitter. I'm realistic. There are no get-rich-quick schemes and there is no fast way for a non-natural to bang hotties.

 

[skinnyguy]

Dude, you're making the big mistake that most young guys make.

You're trying to go from the mailroom to CEO overnight. You're trying to go from nothing to banging HB7+s. Ain't gonna happen.

As I've said time and time and time again here and elsewhere, you have to start out with chicks who aren't very hot.

In your position, you've got to be more interested in women who are into you rather than vice-versa. Take any woman who is into you, a 1, 2 or 3 if need be.

Then, once you've gotten a rotation of them, you can move up.

For some reason guys on SS don't like to hear this. They think that every man "should" be able to go out and bang 7s-10s if the guy "works on himself" and becomes "the best man he can be" etc etc etc.

Doesn't work that way. If you want to be a baseball star you've got to play on sh*tty sandlot teams, then AA and AAA teams making no money for years. Then, if you're good enough, you can move into the majors.

The only people this doesn't apply to are naturals. Guys who are so naturally gifted and talented that they go straight from high school to the major leagues. But if you're posting on this board (or even just reading it ), you're not a natural. Sorry. So you have to work your way up from the bottom.

Date chicks you're not into. Develop a rotation. Over the course of months and years, swap out the least attractive ones with more attractive ones. Work your way slowly up the ladder. It ain't pretty but hat's how it works for guys like you and me.

The guys who b*tch and whine about it and tell you that you "deserve" hot women and no man should date women he's not interested in are the guys who have no women at all. They're KJs and are bitter. I'm realistic. There are no get-rich-quick schemes and there is no fast way for a non-natural to bang hotties.

I'm listening, my friend. Believe me I'm listening.

At the end of the day, if I continue to go for hotties, I will just end up back in this situation. So I need to change something.

I think that just talking to avg girls and having a rotation will boost my confidence. Moreover, when chicks see you with a girl, they get more interested in you and I think part of my problem in the last 10 years is that I just haven't had enough female friends to go out with. There is real value there. Not to mention that by dating these avg girls maybe I'll meet their better looking friends