Self Defense Classes

[f283000]

Just looking for some advice. I just don't know what style of self defense class to take. I have been looking into this for over 2 months and I just can't decide.

There's so many choices. There's karate, bjj, taekwondo, kung fu, kick boxing etc. I have so many places available to me in my area and I just can't decide.

BJJ
I thought about bjj because I like the premise of it. Being able to take down anybody no matter how big they are.

BJJ - THE BAD
The problem is that let's say I got into a fight at a club and I took a guy down. I'd get my head kicked in by either his friends or some idiot that doesn't mind his own business. So unless it's an isolated 1 on 1 bjj just doesn't seem practical for the real world. For official competitions it's one of the best but for the real world it's just too dangerous (although good to add it in addition to another martial art you already know).

KICKBOXING
I want to learn how to punch like a boxer so I thought about kickboxing. I don't want to just defend myself i want to be able to attack. I want to be able to throw quality punches, combos etc. .

KICKBOXING - THE BAD
But then again if a kickboxer is taken to the ground he is finished. I also heard that a lot of kickboxing places cater a lot to fitness/women rather than the actual fighting/art.

KARATE/TAEKWONDO
I haven't mentioned karate and taekwondo because i've heard that they are outdated/belt factories and are easily beat by bjj.

WHAT I WANT
What would be the best one to take for a guy that wants to learn how to punch like a boxer but also be able to put a guy on a hold/choke him out or take him down (bjj). Basically i want to be able to win a street fight.

Or am I making too much trouble in my head trying to find the perfect balance? 99% of people have no formal fight training so even if I took the worst self defense art out there I would still be a favorite against most people in a fight because of my training. Should I just go for something that I like (which right now is being able to throw good punches) and not worry so much about finding the perfect one?

 

[Kerpal]

Buy a concealable handgun and learn how to use it. This is self defense, not sport fighting, they are two completely different things.

 

[backseatjuan]

Boxing. Learn to punch out. A friend of mine, local racketeer, is able to punch and break jaw in 3 places, faster than you and I can blink. What street demands and arts forms on the ring are two different things. You will never be the great, or even good, in comparison to guys who have speed in their gens. Forget about great one, or perfect one, pick one that will shape your body for maximum pimp effect.

 

[Chamber36]

Well I've been doing MMA for over 3 years, and I am going to do my yellow belt exam in Japanese Jiu Jitsu this month, so I know basic Jiu Jitsu, kickboxing and boxing.

(Kick)boxing is the best to defend yourself against multiple targets, and easy to learn. Boxing is more fun than kickboxing because it's more technical.

Jiu Jitsu is the most well-rounded martial art of all because they include punches and kicks, throws, sweeps, armbars, leglocks, necklocks, chokes and basically EVERYTHING. You learn about the human anatomy, which ways to bend people's joints in order to incapacitate them, and the techniques to do so.

It's fun because I'll watch a special move on the internet, and then I'll try to beat someone with that specific move in real life. So you are aiming towards a certain goal throughout the fight just to learn the technique. You learn that many roads lead to Rome.

Tae Kwon do is complete bullcrap from a fighting perspective, because their hands are always down by their hips and they'd get KTFO if they didn't raise up their guard in a fight. Karate is cool imho because of the one-hit-KO ideology, but sometime's it's just not realistic. In contrast to Karate, Chinese boxing (wing chun) is based on the idea of punching your opponent as many times as possible in a short amount of time.

I try to combine all these sports when I fight.
Jiu Jitsu and kickboxing are both TOTALLY different.

Kickboxing is easy to learn and efficient. Once you learn the basic techniques you practice them till you get as close to perfection as you can.
Jiu Jitsu is hard to learn and will put you on a long road to learning many different techniques.

If you want to study something totally unbeatable: study Krav Maga. That's the sickest of all. It's not a martial art, it's a fighting system.
They teach you the most effective techniques to beat an opponent in realistic conflict situations. VS multiple opponents, vs guns/knives. They have many many techniques for that.

 

[Huffman]

For pure self defense, study a self-defense system (such as Krav Maga) and not a martial art or sport. For everything else, fun, competition, conditioning, meditation, there's something for everyone, and you have to form your own opinion.

Try a lot of them, and pick the club where you enjoy training most. I wouldn't write off traditional Okinawan Karate, if you have a good teacher you will learn lots of interesting stuff. But it depends on your character. I tend to enjoy Karate and hate BJJ, but you might find the opposite. Try it first and then see what you like. I hear in America there are a lot of "black belt factories" indeed, or we like to call them McDojo.

Actually, don't care so much about the art, but rather about the teacher.

 

[Deep Dish]

Learning martial arts for self-defense is bullsh*t. Penn & Teller devoted an episode of their show Bullsh*t! to martial arts, which is available on Youtube here. Citing a martial arts expert,

The problem with most fighting systems, most martial arts is the assumption that their student is innocent, that their student is the victim. It's never that their student is out misbehaving. So what they'll do is train their people in this very aggressive fighting manner and call it self-defense… If you're going to claim it self-defense, you have to know self-defense laws, you have to understand what the standards of self-defense are in [your state or country]. I've seen neck break from behind of a down and unarmed opponent taught as self-defense. That's murder… What is taught out as martial arts is actually fear management, not danger management. It doesn't actually address the issues of violence, much less self-defense.

In conclusion:

According to FBI statistics, there are approximately 1.3 million violent crimes in America in 2008. That means roughly one in every 220 Americans were injured in a crime. By contrast, according to a recent study by George Washington University, the probability of being injured while taking martial arts class is 100%. Everyone gets hurt. In fact, students averaged four injuries per year, which means the chances of being injured in a year's worth of self-defense lessons is about 220 times greater than being injured in a crime you're defending yourself against.

Indiana Jones Raiders of the Lost Ark made a pretty good case. If you're willing to use deadly force on another human being, use a fücking gun. The moral and legal consequences are almost the same and at least you won't hurt your hand and be sore every week from practicing at the dojo.

“Let's say I got into a fight at a club and I took a guy down.” What are the chances of getting into a fight in a bar or club, unless, that is, you're the one stirring trouble? The chances of injury from martial arts, which is 100%, four injuries a year, far outweigh the microscopically small chances of being an innocent victim of a fight.

 

[Chamber36]

Learning martial arts for self-defense is bullsh*t. Penn & Teller devoted an episode of their show Bullsh*t! to martial arts, which is available on Youtube here. Citing a martial arts expert,In conclusion:“Let's say I got into a fight at a club and I took a guy down.” What are the chances of getting into a fight in a bar or club, unless, that is, you're the one stirring trouble? The chances of injury from martial arts, which is 100%, four injuries a year, far outweigh the microscopically small chances of being an innocent victim of a fight.

*cough* what a CROC *cough*

learning self defense is learning self defense and fear management comes along with it. They say the best defense is offense. If a man is coming at you it'll be better to jab him before he gets you. Thanks to self-defense your reflexes are better.

Plus it helps with confidence. I got into 2 fights before I ever did martial arts, and since I started, I never got into any kind of skirmish. Advising this man to sit on his ass and watch TV while eating donuts instead of utilizing and optimizing his body is downright Fvcked up.

Thirdly, people get MORE sports injuries in "soccer" than they do from kickboxing, statistically. I learned that from a pro, Remy Bonjasky, on a TV-interview.

 

[f283000]

Thanks guys for the advice.

Chamber I wanted to ask you since you've done both what would be more effective in a street fight? bjj or kick boxing?

The reason I ask is because I wonder what would be more effective against a guy just throwing wild punches non stop? If you go on youtube that is pretty much what street fights are now a days guys throwing punch after punch hoping one lands. What would be the best one to counter-attack such a guy?

I am kinda leaning towards kick boxing because it is the easiest to learn and just getting training on how to punch and kick effectively would put me above most people. I also understand that most fights don't go to the ground but if I were to go to the ground kickboxing would be at a disadvantage.

 

[SharinganUser]

It sounds like you want to take an MMA class.

 

[Deep Dish]

Chamber36:
learning self defense is learning self defense and fear management comes along with it. They say the best defense is offense.

No, you have it backwards, the saying is the best offense is a good defense. The best thing to do is behave defensively and diplomatically diffuse, de-escalate situations, so that escalations to violence don't happen in the first place. Martial arts does not teach social skills to prevent violence. Thus, there is no danger management.

Advising this man to sit on his ass and watch TV while eating donuts instead of utilizing and optimizing his body is downright Fvcked up.

What is fücked up is your reading comprehension skills. Did I say that? No. Was I speaking on fitness health issues? No. You can put down that straw man argument you erected.

Thirdly, people get MORE sports injuries in "soccer" than they do from kickboxing, statistically. I learned that from a pro, Remy Bonjasky, on a TV-interview.

Okay, but so what? Most people do not participate in team sports after their high school or college years, and you don't need to participate in team sports to stay healthy. For most people who remain healthy, the gym and bicycling or running around the neighborhood suffices. It's all well and good for someone to participate in martial arts for the sake of it—if they want the exercise, if they want to compete, etc.—but doing so for self-defense from the statistically rare possibility of a fight for which they did not provoke or escalate is misguided.

 

[Chamber36]

Thanks guys for the advice.

Chamber I wanted to ask you since you've done both what would be more effective in a street fight? bjj or kick boxing?

The reason I ask is because I wonder what would be more effective against a guy just throwing wild punches non stop? If you go on youtube that is pretty much what street fights are now a days guys throwing punch after punch hoping one lands. What would be the best one to counter-attack such a guy?

I am kinda leaning towards kick boxing because it is the easiest to learn and just getting training on how to punch and kick effectively would put me above most people. I also understand that most fights don't go to the ground but if I were to go to the ground kickboxing would be at a disadvantage.

If you want to practice for a street-fight I would say kickboxing is the best because the sparring is more intense. You'll learn how to take a punch to the face or a low-kick, not to look away when you're getting punched and to mentally be dominant during the fight.

Jiu Jitsu is more well-rounded but also harder and I would advise you to start Jiu Jitsu after you get good at kickboxing.

Jiu Jitsu is much more technical and once you know a thing or two about martial arts you will want to learn it. It's very nuanced and they have techniques that get endlessly more advanced, whereas in standard kickboxing there's about only a limited set of moves.

 

[DJDamage]

Or am I making too much trouble in my head trying to find the perfect balance? 99% of people have no formal fight training so even if I took the worst self defense art out there I would still be a favorite against most people in a fight because of my training.

Your overthinking it.

99% of all fights that occur these days are for stupid reasons and are usually avoidable. In most cases you have the option to walk away.

If you don't want people to mess with you in clubs hit the gym and get big and they will have second thoughts if they wish to start something.

 

[f283000]

99% of all fights that occur these days are for stupid reasons and are usually avoidable. In most cases you have the option to walk away.

If you don't want people to mess with you in clubs hit the gym and get big and they will have second thoughts if they wish to start something.

The club example was just to illustrate a problem I see with BJJ which is that it may not work well in a street fight where people are around unless it's in an isolated place.

The reason I want to take classes is to be able to defend myself if the need arises. The economy is bad, people are desperate, crime is up, i don't want to walk at night somewhere and have some guy trying to mug me and me not being able to defend myself.

 

[FairShake]

Boxing. Why get your feet off the ground at all? And who says you will be in an area where you can? Boxing.

But FIRST I would take some track and cross country lessons because it always pays to run away.

 

[DJDamage]

The reason I want to take classes is to be able to defend myself if the need arises. The economy is bad, people are desperate, crime is up, i don't want to walk at night somewhere and have some guy trying to mug me and me not being able to defend myself.

Again if you work out to become big at the gym, a desperate mugger would look for an easier target then you.

If someone were to mug you they will probably use a gun so its best to give him your wallet if he is already pointing a weapon at you. Nobody really uses knives anymore unless its rapists in alleyways in which case you are safe. Also common sense dictate that's its best not to walk alone in a bad part of town after dark.

I think the danger in urban setting is to be attacked by a group of people. Best bet is to also work on your cardio so not only you can run fast but also that you won't get tired quickly as you escape.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Learning martial arts for self-defense is bullsh*t.

lol, did you read that on wikipedia? Look up the history of Japan while you're at it and read about how the Samurais successfully defended their country for hundreds of years against bigger, stronger, and more numerous attackers. That bullsh!t sure seemed to work for them.

Most of the benefit of martial arts is the intangibles - it's how you carry yourself. Imagine how a trial attorney would act if a stranger casually bumped into him and then screamed "I'm gonna sue!" They would laugh at the absurdity of someone challenging them like that. It's the same with physical aggression. Simply being calm, confident and not frightened is the most intimidating way you can act.

In regard to choice of a martial art, there's really no such thing any more as the single best one. You basically have to have both a striking art and a grappling art to be proficient in anything similar to a "real" fight. Jiu-jitsu is great, but collegiate wrestling is far superior in regard to takedowns. A lot of what they teach in Brazilian jiu-jitsu only works because you're on a padded mat, or both wearing a gi. Even if you train mma, the padded gloves make a huge difference, as well as all the rules. Hell, Tae Kwon Do might actually be the most effective martial art if crotch-kicking was allowed.

I'd say to just do what you enjoy. If you like it, you'll train a lot and hopefully compete at some level, which will make you good at whatever art you practice.

 

[Chamber36]

why would you advise him not to do martial arts??

Martial arts changed my life. I feel 10x more confident because I feel I am utilizing my body. All the required muscles grow. And if they don't grow they will get denser.

If you go to the gym all you just pump your muscles full of blood but you don't learn any coordination.

I get super buff guys from the gym who join my MMA class and I'll kick their ass in (kick)boxing, because it's a technique you practice and I believe I have a natural talent.

If you want to be a Jiu Jitsu pro you have to start at age 5. It's MUCH more complicated than kickboxing.

But kickboxing is what brought me into martial arts.

I could take on guys 20 pounds heavier than me if they have no experience EASILY. And the extra confidence is good for anything. I have NO fear walking around at night alone.

I am 6"1 but I weigh only 160 pounds, so for me technique is EVERYTHING. If I had no training I would be a wimp.


And to highlight my point, I got into a few fights before I did martial arts, and each time I punched a guy in the face I fractured one of my joints. Since I know martial arts and I'm not scared, people don't want to face me. Sometimes I even WANT to fight a guy 20 pounds heavier than me, and his whole gang of pvssy scrawny friends, I mean I just want to prove to myself I can do it.

There's nothing I love more than punching a guy in the face, especially if he's taller and stronger than me. A fight doesn't come down to strength, it comes to technique.

So go for kickboxing!!

And if you get the hang of it and want to learn ground-game you do some Jiu jitsu.

See, japanese jiu jitsu has more standing work. So BJJ is more of a supplement to your all-round self defense skills.

And all you guys telling him NOT to do martial arts: shame on you!

Martial arts is better than ANY sport. It gives you a nice physique, confidence, better coordination, faster reflexes, better endurance, and especially CORE strength.

You can go to the gym but it'll all be 'flash' muscle. I'm sure a guy who curls 100pounds can do a hell of a choke-hold, but unless a person like that has training in techniques and sparring, the person is not going to be able to judge distances well.

 

[Deep Dish]

lol, did you read that on wikipedia? Look up the history of Japan while you're at it and read about how the Samurais successfully defended their country for hundreds of years against bigger, stronger, and more numerous attackers. That bullsh!t sure seemed to work for them.

Apples and oranges. Strawman argument. My points remain standing, thank you very much.

 

[Gaucho]

I would say boxing.

It is the most explosive. They introduced a rule in kickboxing that you had to use 3 leg kicks per round, because many guys would just use their hands to win fights.

Now, that is in a sport with an already large leg advantage (you have gloves on your hands, not on your legs).

If you get good at boxing, you will be explosive as hell without gloves when you are regularly training with 16oz gloves and have incredible, finely honed technique.

In a st fight, if you go to the ground, your basically fukced. You get kicked by multiple people, stomped etc. Not to mention, if you have multiple attackers, your done with any form of JJ. Your only hope is being quick and explosive.

But I agree with Bible Belt, do what you enjoy. You will keep going back, get good at it and carry yourself with pride.

 

[Rubirosa]

Whatever you decide to learn, make sure there is some real contact involved. Boxers are badasses in a street fight because that's what they do in the gym: FIGHT. They get in the ring and go at it. Granted, there is usually some holding back in gym sparring, but they are still hitting and getting hit.
I do Kyokushin, which is Japanese Karate with realistic training in regards to hitting and getting hit (and kicked).
Also, get strong........The strongest man is always the most feared man.