"Romantic Rivalry" ??

[iqqi]

The Situation

The other night me and my girl were at a corporate event, where, lo and behold, a guy who I have had a little long term (6 years!) crush on showed up out of nowhere. Nothing serious, just a guy who has it going on for himself. I pointed him out to my girl, and told her about him. She thought he was very good looking, even though we tend to have a different taste in men. She was pretty impressed with his style.

Him and some friends were shooting darts, so me and my friend went over there because she is pretty good, and wanted to play, and it gave me a great chance to see what I could see . As soon as we got over there, she was accepted into the game, and I just drank and conversated with people around us. The guy knew me from before, and just like magic (gushing here), he came over and began what amounted to a night of witty flirting with me directly.

I was very happy, as it was going exactly how I wanted it. He intiated all conversation, every now and then I'd engage someone else in conversaton just to not be too obvious. He'd step back over and start another back and forth. It was very flirty, and he was obviously very interested in me. He even knew some things about me that surprised me.

At one point my girl went to stand next to him, kind of close. She was pretty "buzzed" at this point. After a few seconds, he just drifted away from her and came to where I was.

After about 20 minutes, my friend went to get a drink. The guys finished up the game, and when my crush went to talk to his partner, I went to find my friend. She was at the bar, where I ran into an old guy friend who moved away a year ago(platonic with potential). He was overly excited to see me, and we got into a 15 minute conversation. This I thought was perfect, as it gave my crush time to miss me and wonder where I was, and of course could create the perfect stirring of competion to heat the situation up.

I left Old Acquaintance to go back to the Crush. As I got closer I noticed my girl was already over there, even though it was just Crush and his partner (who I knew she wasn't interested in) playing darts still. She had been over there for about 10 minutes, and I was kind of disturbed by that.

Crush seemed happy to see me. I came back, we started talking again, and after about 2 minutes Old Acquaintance found me (he was wasted), and came over and pretty much took over my attention, kind of obnoxiously. I was trying to think of how to get rid of him without being rude, as I do like him, but he was c0ckblocking too hard, and Crush was my #1 priority.

It was the end of the night, so within 3 minutes of that, Crush and his friend started to wind up their stuff to go. As Crush was leaving, I interrupted Old Acquaintance to tell Crush goodbye, with a flirty one liner for good measure. He smiled, and seemed to appreciate it, and I could tell that he took that as I was more interested in him, which I wanted.

When me and my girl left I expressed that I was kind of p!ssed at Old Acquaintance for messing up my game, and she said "well I know where Crush will be at." I looked at her, and she looked kind of uncomfortable. She told me that he would be at a popular after hours spot down the street, and that when I was talking to Old Acquaintance, that he asked what her and I were doing afterwards, then asked for her #.

She said that she felt uncomfortable, and hesitated, to which he made a joke, but she gave him the #.

This really upset me, and she seemed to be really uncomfortable once she realized what just happened. It upset me specifically more and more, when I thought about how it seemed like she had been making herself available to him, with the standing close, and the hanging around when I wasn't there. I didn't spell this out to her, the rest of our conversation was basically "damage control", and confusing. She admitted that she had never really had a girl friend before, so she doesn't seem to get the whole honor code thing.

Part of me thinks that when Old Acquaintance came over, Crush seen a great opportunity to save face by getting my friend's # as she had basically been making herself easy to him. (Whereas, yes, I was playing a little hard to get).

Another part of me hopes that he got her # just to get in touch with me.

This isn't the first time she has "captured the attention" of a guy that I was trying to get to know. Not that any of them really chose her over me, but they noticed her attention, and of course liked it. This situation just really brought all of it to my attention, and is really really upsetting me, to think she may be someone I shouldn't trust.

This just really p!ssed me off, because of how long I had been interested in this guy, and how perfect the set up had been this time around.

What do you all think? Do you think maybe she is a little competitive with me? I need perspective. I don't know if I explained it as well as I could, I will clear whatever I may have left out as you respond.

 

[iqqi]

Backround

This is just further backround, that you don't have to read, unless you need more info.

She is a new friend that I made over the summer, who has become something like my "right hand man". She is very pretty, intelligent, and extremely funny. She had a very troubled past, with drugs and sex, and extremely bad relationships. She is also pretty young (early 20's). A lot of people think she is kind of weird, which is probably why I like her so much, most of my best friends tend to be off-color. (Humor, outlook).

She has been a great friend so far, probably my favorite one I have met in years. She is a faithful "wing man" in the sense that she has come out with me and stayed longer than she wanted to when I was the only one really having a blast. She emails and calls often, sometimes just to say she had fun the night before, just considerate, which is something I appreciate.

She looks up to me in terms of fashion, the way men treat me, and my life over all. Most of the people she has hung out with, or had relationships with before, were men most people wouldn't give the time of day to. Think dirty, unclean (hygiene and drugs), and trashy. They all had some redeeming qualities. She has brought up multiple times, that her boyfriends tend to be "ugly" and "nothing attractive". A mutual guy friend told me that she likes to get involved with men who have nothing and no chance of anything, then ruin them.

Since she has been hanging with me, she has been meeting new types of people, and is immersed in a higher nightlife type of weekend entertainment. (Ok, the less snobby way of saying that is she is VIP at clubs, and not smoking weed at some dealer's apartment with a bunch of dudes.) At first she was kind of uncomfortable, but now she is loving it.

 

[Desdinova]

every now and then I'd engage someone else in conversaton just to not be too obvious.

In other words, you're "running game" on a guy. Running game on men (especially game that's meant for women) isn't going to work. Men don't function on emotion, they function on logic.

She told me that he would be at a popular after hours spot down the street, and that when I was talking to Old Acquaintance, that he asked what her and I were doing afterwards, then asked for her #.

When you fvcked off and talked to the other dude, he may have concluded that you were already taken, so he did the smart thing: he number closed your friend who OBVIOUSLY wasn't taken. You're attempt at game-playing backfired, and your friend has the opportunity to date him.

Your friend did nothing to disrespect you. You're trying to put the blame on her for your ruined opportunity.

The lesson here is, don't try to game men by triggering emotions in him. It won't work.

 

[iqqi]

The fact that 15 people have already viewed this thread is disturbing to me, seeing as there aren't even 15 regulars on this MM forum, and as I have a huge fear of "real life" discovery. Maybe I should have changed some of the details...lol... (Holds breath)

 

[iqqi]

The lesson here is, don't try to game men by triggering emotions in him. It won't work.

Thanks Des, but most real life DJ's will inform you that women do indeed run game, it is just more natural for us.

And the biggest joke of this board to me, is men thinking they run off of logic. Not trying to start anything here, lol, its the truth! Men are much more easily manipulated with emotional ploys than women.

Besides, one thing that "women with game" get, is that men want to pursue. My job is to engage, and encourage, while maintaining the mystery and the intrigue.

 

[MacAvoy]

The fact that 15 people have already viewed this thread is disturbing to me, seeing as there aren't even 15 regulars on this MM forum, and as I have a huge fear of "real life" discovery. Maybe I should have changed some of the details...lol... (Holds breath)

Probably cause its too long winded, and people look and leave like I am doing.

 

[Desdinova]

Thanks Des, but most real life DJ's will inform you that women do indeed run game,

I agree, and their game actually repels more men than it attracts.

it is just more natural for us.

I call bull5hit on this. Women know when they're intentionally being cvnts, and you were no better when you went and talked to your old roomie (or whoever the fvck he was).

Men are much more easily manipulated with emotional ploys than women.

No, men are easily manipulated with a golden carrot, otherwise known as SEX. Emotion has nothing to do with it. If it did, men wouldn't persue women as much or as long as they do.

Besides, one thing that "women with game" get, is that men want to pursue. My job is to engage, and encourage, while maintaining the mystery and the intrigue.

You sound like you've read that goddam book "The Rules" too many times.

Probably cause its too long winded, and people look and leave like I am doing.

If you want long-winded, go over to LS.org and read the long-winded 5hit that women write over there. Much of it is longer than what Iqqi wrote here. But I don't blame you one bit for ignoring long posts by women. They're usually full of irrelevant details that nobody cares about.

 

[aliasguy]

You did what you did, Iqqi, and it didn't work.

Do something else next time.

 

[iqqi]

You did what you did, Iqqi, and it didn't work.

Do something else next time.

Actually, it was working GREAT. I'm not really worried about the guy or my chances with him, so much as I am worried about my friend, and OUR relationship.



Desdinova, believe or not, game is just a concept word, for the "dance" between the sexes. Both men and women have time proven tactics that just have names and descriptions now. The things some guys learn to do on here, are things that both men and women have been doing naturally for ages. The stuff on this site is nothing new under the sun, just spelled out advice for the people who may not have picked it up naturally.

Really though, it would do some of you good to realize that there really isn't THAT much of a difference in women and men when it comes to dating. We all have issues with understanding what the h3ll is going on, and a lot of the issues are the exact same regardless of gender. Sure there are some differences, but we aren't different species.

I have a natural understanding of attraction, and I also have the ability to spell it out as well.

As for the specifics of my situation, there really wasn't any disrespect in what I did. I went to the bar looking for my girl, and ran into an old friend. Why would I blow off an old friend, because I am paranoid and clingy about a new crush? That is lame behavior from anyone, male or female, don't you agree? I wasn't there with anyone, so I my time didn't belong to anyone. Crush wasn't offended, it wasn't until the old friend came and found me that things got slightly messed up, but that is what happens with drunk people! I'm not that mad, and felt I made the right move with my last comment as he left to let him know where my interest really lay.

Hope you can take something from that.

Those of you who are basing your "argument" on my gender, and not my details, please kindly refrain. I need some insight here on my friend mostly, and not criticism of me being female, and not clingy and validating to some dude. The horror!

 

[ketostix]

Iqqi listen to Desdinova. I totally agree with him. Your game you used would put off and annoy most guys, especially in a bar setting. Anyway, I agree your girl wing was poaching on your guy. A similar thing happened with me with a guy friend of mine and I've cut his ****blocking a.ss off. Not totally similar but pretty similar, so maybe you can keep hanging out with her. The thing is your girl friend has a shady past and will always be a shady character IMO.

 

[aliasguy]

"Actually, it was working GREAT. I'm not really worried about the guy or my chances with him, so much as I am worried about my friend, and OUR relationship."


Ok, good. Happy for you.

What's with all the talk of "game," and "tactics," and "attraction," and "disrespect," and "crush," and "disrespect," and "HORROR."

Sounds like you had a fun night, and are SO happy with how it turned out with your new potential DUDE.

WTG, babe. Extra points.

 

[iqqi]

Iqqi listen to Desdinova. I totally agree with him. Your game you used would put off and annoy most guys, especially in a bar setting. Anyway, I agree your girl wing was poaching on your guy. A similar thing happened with me with a guy friend of mine and I've cut his ****blocking a.ss off. Not totally similar but pretty similar, so maybe you can keep hanging out with her. The thing is your girl friend has a shady past and will always be a shady character IMO.

Thanks.

As far as the "game", what do you think was annoying?

All that really happened from his POV was we flirted and talked, and got to know each other better for a good 45 minutes or so, during a down time I left to go find my friend and grab a drink, was gone for maybe 15 minutes, and when I came back we flirted some more, but then some drunk guy came over and started talking to me, but obviously knew me, so he wasn't random.

Like I said, the only part that was kind of messed up was my old friend coming over to talk to me, but he was drunk, it was the end of the night, and it wasn't really that bad.

 

[MikeYikes122]

iqqi, i think you need to spin more plates and maybe get out in the field to do some more cold approaches.

 

[iqqi]

iqqi, i think you need to spin more plates and maybe get out in the field to do some more cold approaches.

Thanks mike. Really.

Now what do you think about the friend? Have you had a friend like that before?

 

[ketostix]

Thanks.

As far as the "game", what do you think was annoying?

All that really happened from his POV was we flirted and talked, and got to know each other better for a good 45 minutes or so, during a down time I left to go find my friend and grab a drink, was gone for maybe 15 minutes, and when I came back we flirted some more, but then some drunk guy came over and started talking to me, but obviously knew me, so he wasn't random.

Like I said, the only part that was kind of messed up was my old friend coming over to talk to me, but he was drunk, it was the end of the night, and it wasn't really that bad.

Well, basically you were running indirect guy game on the Crush. And when a woman runs indirect game, that tends to come across very "indirect" or as disinterest to a guy. Why do you think it is that your shady girl friend was able to get his number and find out where he was going to be later? It could only be a combination of: She was more aggressive than you, or he wasn't that interested in you and was more interested in your friend (maybe because of the first reason). Although, this guy in question seems a little oblivious or something, maybe he knows you've had a crush on him or maybe he's clueless when a girl's interested in him.

 

[ketostix]

iqqi, i think you need to spin more plates and maybe get out in the field to do some more cold approaches.

Yeah iqqi sounds like she has one-itis.

 

[joekerr31]

first of all its absurd to have a crush on someone for 6 years. if you were a guy we'd be ripping you a new a-hole for being such an AFC.

secondly, you made a mistake courting to men in one spot. while you think it creates 'competition', a lot of guys look at it as manipulation and cut loose.

thirdly, you have no idea what your friend said to him when you weren't around. obviously she said something to him that he asked for her number. she outgamed you when you weren't around. she probably flirted heavily and played to his ego.

now you might be thinking 'whatever, i flirted with him, that should be enough for him to know i like him.'

well guess what, its not. women flirt with me all the time, it doesn't mean anythign to me. most of them are AWs, a lot of them i have no interest in, and a few of them (im sure) are high quality. the problem is that i can't tell the difference till i get to know them - so flirting alone is not enough to make me think 'wow, high quality woman alert. i've got to pursue this and not let this one get away."

now, what SHOULD you have done? you may not like this answer, but i'm giving you DJ for women insight here.

the biggest thing you could have done to let this guy know you were in to him and that you wanted to actually go out would have been to buy him a beer. when his beer got low you should have gone up and said 'hey jim, im going to get a beer, do you want one, its on me."

its so rare that a woman extends such a courteousy to a man that when it happens its a shocker and instantly differentiates you from other women.

its not guarantee that he'll ask you out, BUT, if he is in to you, he will understand that move to be a HUGE green light to take his shot.

women think everything has to be covert and it doesn't. in fact, a lot of guys are horrible at reading covert signals. do you know how many guys have been around a flirty woman, asked her out and then got shot down? just about every single guy thats alive!

as such, flirting alone often isn't enough to give the guy a green light.

but if you do something, anything, that shows that you are thinking about him, not just trying to seduce him, its a deal clincher.

women in general treat men so badly that when a woman does something nice for a man - like buy him a drink - it totally makes her stand out from all the other women.

see, the really smooth DJ's actually simply use the opposite sexes tricks. all men find it easy to buy a woman a drink, what they find hard is being flirty and fun with her. whereas the opposite is true of women, they wig out at the thought of taking a slightly proactive role, but have no problem being flirty and fun.

now when a man acts flirty and fun it attracts women, MOSTLY because so few men behave that way. plus it puts a woman at ease, because its a game she knows how to play.

when a woman communicates overtly, instead of covertly, it similarly puts a man at ease. he thinks 'ahhhh, everything is on the table. this is nice, no games.'

the easiest way to do this is to buy a guy a drink. its an OVERT signal that you are interested in him.

this is how men behave with each other as well. male friends buy each other drinks. 'its on me' is the male version of 'we're buds you're good in my books.'

anyway, long story short...

- 6 year crushes are absurd.
- your gf outflirted you (most of which you probably werent around to see)
- never try to play guys off each other (only the knuckleheads fall for that sh*t)

 

[joekerr31]

iqqi, i think you need to spin more plates and maybe get out in the field to do some more cold approaches.

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[iqqi]

Well, basically you were running indirect guy game on the Crush. And when a woman runs indirect game, that tends to come across very "indirect" or as disinterest to a guy. Why do you think it is that your shady girl friend was able to get his number and find out where he was going to be later? It could only be a combination of: She was more aggressive than you, or he wasn't that interested in you and was more interested in your friend (maybe because of the first reason). Although, this guy in question seems a little oblivious or something, maybe he knows you've had a crush on him or maybe he's clueless when a girl's interested in him.

I see what you see now. However, it wasn't like that. Its not like he spent every second right next to me. He has "game" too. I could tell that he was interested in me because he kept talking to me, and coming back to me, and I could also tell that he knew that I was interested in him, because he kept coming back, lol. I was not an ice queen, I know how to flirt. There was a lot of chemistry, and between me and you (and all the sosuave lurkers lol), I was very delighted at how well we were getting on.

It also isn't a big crush so there is no way he'd have known about it. He is just a guy who I really thought was interesting for all this time. I only run into him a few times during a year.

And I did question whether or not I missed something with him and my friend, but like I said initially there was a time when she went and stood next to him, and he left her and came and stood by me.

She is easy. Plain and simple. And yeah, it that is what he wants, then it probably wouldn't work out with us anyways. I hope that isn't the case, though.

 

[joekerr31]

I see what you see now. However, it wasn't like that. Its not like he spent every second right next to me. He has "game" too. I could tell that he was interested in me because he kept talking to me, and coming back to me, and I could also tell that he knew that I was interested in him, because he kept coming back, lol. I was not an ice queen, I know how to flirt. There was a lot of chemistry, and between me and you (and all the sosuave lurkers lol), I was very delighted at how well we were getting on.

if this were some guy on here telling us how he and a buddy went to a bar and he was super in to some chic playing darts and at the end of the night the chic gave his buddy her number what do you think we'd be saying to him?

and imagine he then says 'naw guys, i think she only did that so that she could get closer to me."

we'd be verbally slapping the sh*t out of him.

you were a peacock. you fluffed up your beautiful feathers and waited for him to want more.

wrong move.

women, just like men, have to let hte other sex know they like them. and not just flirting.

you could have done a million things...

- buy him a beer
- drop an opening like 'you know, i haven't been a museum in forever.' (if he likes you he'll say: ya me neither. say listen, do you want to check one out sometime?")

etc.

women have two options. either you try to lure him in by being overtly sexual (ie. very flirty, stroke his ego, etc. - which it sounds like your friend did when you werent around) or by giving the guy a fairly overt signal / opening.