Relying on social circles vs. being your own man

[FutureSpartan]

In the quest to improve my life, I realized something.

A lot of guys on the self-improvement bandwagon say that if you want to become a ladies man the best way to do so is to make a bunch of friends and get yourself into a bunch of social circles.

I disagree with this premise entirely.

I will try my best to explain why I believe this and I encourage a debate on this topic so dont hesitate to disagree with me.

I have always been the kind of guy to do things myself. I thought I was wierd or somethin for not havin a group of friends like everyone else did. I have about 3 good friends, my work colleagues, and a bunch of people I know on a casual basis. I tried to expand my circle of friends by calling up casual acquaintances, but they all were "too busy."

I called up my dad one night after one of my good friends failed to call me back to hang out.

He seemed surprised that I felt upset about a DUDE not calling me back

"Look, when I was your age, there was two things I focused on....my career and my dating life. I met up with friends very occassionaly, but I was always out there trying to meet women, they are way more fun than hanging out with your guy friends every week. s are more concerned about their social circles! Not guys!"

My dad has a short stature but he's no chump so I had to take what he said and really think about it.

And then it hit me...I spent all my time trying to improve my social status to make people and women like me that
1. That in itself was unattractive. Think about it S are the more social gender. They care about what people think about them. Guys should not give two f*cks if they have no friends
2. I was denying myself the opportunity to just get out there and DIRECTLY improve my dating life by approaching beautiful women.

Besides every HB I met through acquaintances seemed to have every guy in her social circle chasing her. So I had to not only put up with a bunch of surrounding blocks but her own inflated sense of self as the "Queen Bee"

What do you really want guys? If you could trade most of your "friends" for a great life, would you do it?

I know that if I could hook up with one stunner at least every month then I would be happy with my life and not go out of my way to make myself "higher status" to an insecure herd. That is why I am out there, by myself, approaching. Most guys I know cant even talk to a beautiful without trying to fall over her shoes with a heart attack so why should I let them hold me back?

I guess we should all be more honest with ourselves about what we want from our lives. If you want a better life, then go out there and make it happen on your own terms not on your "friends' terms

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...I guess we should all be more honest with ourselves about what we want from our lives. If you want a better life, then go out there and make it happen on your own terms not on your "friends' terms

Perhaps, but most people will choose the latter; it's easier.

 

[reset]

I guess we should all be more honest with ourselves about what we want from our lives. If you want a better life, then go out there and make it happen on your own terms not on your "friends' terms

I agree. Something I get from your post is the realization that there is no one size fits all way of doing things. Just because people say you should do this or that, does not make it some law of the universe that can't be broken. People say things because that's how they see the world. Doesn't mean it will work for you (half the time it doesn't mean it will work for them either).

Anyhow. There's nothing better than having a few close male friends who have your back, and who you can talk to about your life from a man's perspective, and there's no sexual element involved. In that sense you can truly "be yourself" with your friends. And they are the first ones you will go to if something doesn't work out in your life (hopefully).

BUT, we are here to reproduce. That's why we (men) exist, to find women, have sex with them, get them pregnant, and spread our genes throughout the planet.

I think, for ME, the best life is to have a couple close friends who I can do guy stuff with, and plenty of women I can have fun with.

As far as relying on other people to facilitate your happiness, you can't do that. I'm learning this. But I would suggest, don't ignore potential close friendships with guys just becuase they aren't female.

 

[speakeasy]

We need close friends AND we need women. It's not an either or sort of thing. Both provide things to us that the other can't. There's no reason that you have to choose one at the exclusion of the other.

 

[comic_relief]

alright, I agree with this post in the end but also disagree with it for a plethora of reasons.

First off, your very premise is off on why you should make friends. You shouldn't make friends to be a "ladies man" or whatever. You should do it because you genuinely want a human connection, not a piece of tail. That is your first stike.

Secondly, you shouldn't be NEEDING anything in this life, you should want something. Like I like to hang out with friends, but if they don't show up then I will sure as hell go on my own or call another friend to do something. I don't NEED anything. It's all about keeping yourself independent of feeling and looking at everything as already broken. Therefore you enjoy the time that you have with the person or object (take that buddism, I believe)

Thirdly,

And then it hit me...I spent all my time trying to improve my social status to make people and women like me that
1. That in itself was unattractive. Think about it S are the more social gender. They care about what people think about them. Guys should not give two f*cks if they have no friends
2. I was denying myself the opportunity to just get out there and DIRECTLY improve my dating life by approaching beautiful women.

Besides every HB I met through acquaintances seemed to have every guy in her social circle chasing her. So I had to not only put up with a bunch of surrounding blocks but her own inflated sense of self as the "Queen Bee"

It sounds like you were very desparate for female companionship. Stop being so desparate and go into a group of people. Try this for a change. Look at everyone as the same and try to make a "meaningful connection" with everyone there. Don't go look at her and say that she is hot. Think that she is a guy and make a "meaningful connection" (anti-dump's machine eat your heart out). Treat everyone the same. If you wouldn't do it for a guy, don't do it for a woman.

It also sounds like you are creating excuses why you don't have any male friends at all. Personally, I have a nice sized social circle of male friends that I can pal around with, and a nice sized female social circle (only problem is, is that I keep eventually attracting those girls to me and I don't or can't do anything to them) that I can hang out with.

I know that if I could hook up with one stunner at least every month then I would be happy with my life and not go out of my way to make myself "higher status" to an insecure herd.

Stop putting so much damn validation on your life with getting women. It just reeks of desparation, put validation on what makes you happy with life based on other things other than women that you can directly control within your life. My happiness is based directly on me, not based on anybody else.

comic_relief

 

[FutureSpartan]

We need close friends AND we need women. It's not an either or sort of thing. Both provide things to us that the other can't. There's no reason that you have to choose one at the exclusion of the other.

Close friends are a great thing to have...I have one I would consider my best friend, like a brother to me.

But one thing I realized is its way harder to make good close friends than it is to hook up with some chick you just met. It takes a lot of time and really it just happens with someone whom you share a lot common interests and passions.

And again, I believe that a lot of guys here think

"Well, I dont have many friends so theres no way any girl would want me, I need to have 50 friends and involved in 3 social circles if I want to be good
with women"

You see I simply want a better sex life. I believe that I dont have to prove to any HB that I am Mr. Popular in order to date her. If some HB rejects me because I dont have many friends or I dont "roll with a crew" well than that says a lot about her, not me.


Reset you are absolutely right...there really is no one size fits all solution. speakeasy is right too...we need friends and we need women. To what extent we need one and/or the other depends on each person.

 

[reset]

Don't make yourself feel bad because of what a woman "may" think about you. I know what you mean, I've got one close friend who I hang out with, but he's not really a good "wingman" or anything.

So I know what you're thinking about establishing "social proof" with these girls. But it really doesn't matter, if a girl likes you, she wants to be with you, and spend time with you, not your friends.

And of course, if you're out with women, living your life, having fun, experiencing the world... you are probably going to make some friends along the way. Can't avoid it, unless you deliberately push it away.

 

[I.A.F.Y.B.]

I think its good to have a variety of friends. Example; Two of my good friends pretty much just like to smoke weed and play video games. A few other friends like to play sports and outdoor activities. Others like to go to partys and pick up women. So, having different friends you can decide what you feel like doing that day and who would be more fun to hang out with at that time.

 

[FutureSpartan]

alright, I agree with this post in the end but also disagree with it for a plethora of reasons.

First off, your very premise is off on why you should make friends. You shouldn't make friends to be a "ladies man" or whatever. You should do it because you genuinely want a human connection, not a piece of tail. That is your first stike.

Secondly, you shouldn't be NEEDING anything in this life, you should want something. Like I like to hang out with friends, but if they don't show up then I will sure as hell go on my own or call another friend to do something. I don't NEED anything. It's all about keeping yourself independent of feeling and looking at everything as already broken. Therefore you enjoy the time that you have with the person or object (take that buddism, I believe)

Thirdly,

It sounds like you were very desparate for female companionship. Stop being so desparate and go into a group of people. Try this for a change. Look at everyone as the same and try to make a "meaningful connection" with everyone there. Don't go look at her and say that she is hot. Think that she is a guy and make a "meaningful connection" (anti-dump's machine eat your heart out). Treat everyone the same. If you wouldn't do it for a guy, don't do it for a woman.

It also sounds like you are creating excuses why you don't have any male friends at all. Personally, I have a nice sized social circle of male friends that I can pal around with, and a nice sized female social circle (only problem is, is that I keep eventually attracting those s to me and I don't or can't do anything to them) that I can hang out with.


Stop putting so much damn validation on your life with getting women. It just reeks of desparation, put validation on what makes you happy with life based on other things other than women that you can directly control within your life. My happiness is based directly on me, not based on anybody else.

comic_relief

lol...you see this is exactly the kind of posts that guys read and then fear trying to improve their dating life because people like you are there to point and judge them

"QUIT BEING SO DESPERATE!!!!"

You see, you dont truly know what the past few weeks have been like for me. i have approached more women in the past 2 weeks than I have in my lifetime.

You sit there and tell me I am desperate and seeking validation. Well before I finally got off my ass and took control of my dating life, I was. But now, after approaching nearly 30 women, I have never felt more confident and content with myself.

I pride myself in having the courage to walk up to these strangers and opening myself up to rejection. This has made me stronger in more ways than one.

Not only am I becoming better at interacting with women, but with people in general. I am more confident in myself in that I am no longer seeking validation in others. And people are noticing this, I am getting way more respect from everyone in general because I now go in each interaction without any hidden agenda or validation seeking

Stop putting so much damn validation on your life with getting women. It just reeks of desparation, put validation on what makes you happy with life based on other things other than women that you can directly control within your life. My happiness is based directly on me, not based on anybody else

You're in no position to tell me how I should run my life. My happiness is based on me, not on anybody else, like you said. If I want to take control of my dating life because it makes me happy, then I will do it regardless of what you or others think. I dont have to live up to some "ideal" because its the cool thing to do or to do otherwise is considered "desperate"

 

[reset]

Good post, Spartan. Good for you.

I wonder though why you felt the need to start this thread? Are you judging YOURSELF because you don't think you are a Mr.Social?

 

[FutureSpartan]

Good post, Spartan. Good for you.

I wonder though why you felt the need to start this thread? Are you judging YOURSELF because you don't think you are a Mr.Social?

Nah...I spent my entire life judging myself and it got me nowhere. Im not gonna waste my time trying to fit into one-dimensional molds (Mr. Social, Mr. Tough Guy, Mr. Loner) because it makes everyone like or approve of me.

I have had so many negative conditionings in me since I was little that prevented me from growing up like a normal guy. Im know Im not the only one here with this problem.

Whats important to me is my passions/desires to become my BEST SELF. That includes improving my dating life, getting more involved at school, and doing hobbies I like.

And of course, if you're out with women, living your life, having fun, experiencing the world... you are probably going to make some friends along the way. Can't avoid it, unless you deliberately push it away

100% agreed

 

[reset]

I have had so many negative conditionings in me since I was little that prevented me from growing up like a normal guy. Im know Im not the only one here with this problem.

Yeah, you got that one right!

Sounds like you're on the right track man.

 

[On Point]

First off, thanks for starting this thread, this is an interesting point of view.

Besides every HB I met through acquaintances seemed to have every guy in her social circle chasing her.

So what? Attractive women will always have men pursuing them.

What do you really want guys? If you could trade most of your "friends" for a great life, would you do it?

That is a false choice. Friend enrich your life. Having great friends is part of having a great life.

Examine your motive for having friends. Trying to gain friends simply for the purpose of pursuing women is a pretty shallow basis for a relationship (friendship). If you befriend other men who are looking for a wing that's an exception, but men build friendships around shared interests. For example I have friends I go kayaking with, friends I go backpacking with, musician friends I play guitar with. Some of those activities I couldn't do my own.

Plus I have good friends who can provide me emotion support (like you seek from your Dad) during the rare hard times when I need it. Being alone in the world isn't a great life. Building all of your support around women isn't healthy.

A lot of guys on the self-improvement bandwagon say that if you want to become a ladies man the best way to do so is to make a bunch of friends and get yourself into a bunch of social circles.

I don't know if that is the "best" way, but I think it is very valid. DHV and social proof is for real. Imagine you're a woman at a park. You see a guy dressed in expensive clothes walking around looking for women. Then you see an athletic guy throwing a football around with three friends laughing and having a great time. Who is more attractive?

I know that if I could hook up with one stunner at least every month then I would be happy with my life and not go out of my way to make myself "higher status" to an insecure herd.

Your happiness is dependent on women. So every time you're single or that HB dumps you for some other guy, you're going to be miserable? That is no way to live a life. Sure, every guy is happier with a HB, but your life needs to be interesting and fulfilling on it's own. A woman should just be the icing on the cake.

 

[On Point]

Um, yeah, it says she wants a socially well-adjusted extrovert. That's a pretty reasonable way to qualify.

Your attitude is that you want a sex toy and you're not interested in relationships on any deeper level. You can find woman that will go for that but realize woman are pretty intuitive and many will be put off by that. The difference between a guy that wants to get to know a woman and one that just wants sex as soon as possible is pretty obvious.

You see I simply want a better sex life. I believe that I dont have to prove to any HB that I am Mr. Popular in order to date her. If some HB rejects me because I dont have many friends or I dont "roll with a crew" well than that says a lot about her, not me.

 

[Dongfu]

Don Juan Debate

This is a perfect example for a debate forum that I proposed in a recent post, that was not well received, called a fruity idea. But here it is, DJ's eloquently, respectfully countering each other's views. So why is this not fruity? I merely propose to do this as a selective focus in a debate with only real DJ"s posting, to keep a clean flow of dialog, with out AFC intervention.

 

[comic_relief]

lol...you see this is exactly the kind of posts that guys read and then fear trying to improve their dating life because people like you are there to point and judge them

Stop putting so much damn validation on your life with getting women. It just reeks of desparation, put validation on what makes you happy with life based on other things other than women that you can directly control within your life. My happiness is based directly on me, not based on anybody else

You're in no position to tell me how I should run my life. My happiness is based on me, not on anybody else, like you said. If I want to take control of my dating life because it makes me happy, then I will do it regardless of what you or others think. I dont have to live up to some "ideal" because its the cool thing to do or to do otherwise is considered "desperate"

no, you said earlier in your post that you would be happy if you could get one HB per month, then you are telling me that it is based on no one but you. On Point makes a very good point about your falacy in that arguement. Do not take this as an attack.

I am also proud that you are taking control of your life and dancing to the beating of the drum. I would do the same thing. Do NOT consider me the enemy here. I am giving you my honest opinion.

I will try my best to explain why I believe this and I encourage a debate on this topic so dont hesitate to disagree with me.

You tell me to not "hesitate to disagree with" you on this subject, but then tell me that I am basically the bad guy of sosuave. When in reality, I am the opposite of the bad guy, I am the great guy that is giving these guys a different way to become the "ladies man." My way is much harder and actually looks like it is the opposite way of getting the ladies. I say, forget women entirely, go improve yourself to the point that you are the man of your dreams and at the same time becoming the man of her dreams. Women are to add to your life, not become them. This way that you are doing your own path to DJ-ism seems like you will have that and your career as the only things in your life. Branch out, as on point stated, that friends are supposed to add to your life.

I believe that we are having misunderstanding because we have different mindsets on how to get to the same ending. We just offer a different way of doing it. Much different, but each way has its pro's and con's. Neither is right nor wrong.

comic_relief

 

[FutureSpartan]

no, you said earlier in your post that you would be happy if you could get one HB per month, then you are telling me that it is based on no one but you. On Point makes a very good point about your falacy in that arguement. Do not take this as an attack.

I am also proud that you are taking control of your life and dancing to the beating of the drum. I would do the same thing. Do NOT consider me the enemy here. I am giving you my honest opinion.


You tell me to not "hesitate to disagree with" you on this subject, but then tell me that I am basically the bad guy of sosuave. When in reality, I am the opposite of the bad guy, I am the great guy that is giving these guys a different way to become the "ladies man." My way is much harder and actually looks like it is the opposite way of getting the ladies. I say, forget women entirely, go improve yourself to the point that you are the man of your dreams and at the same time becoming the man of her dreams. Women are to add to your life, not become them. This way that you are doing your own path to DJ-ism seems like you will have that and your career as the only things in your life. Branch out, as on point stated, that friends are supposed to add to your life.

I believe that we are having misunderstanding because we have different mindsets on how to get to the same ending. We just offer a different way of doing it. Much different, but each way has its pro's and con's. Neither is right nor wrong.

comic_relief

Point taken, and I apologize for lashing out like that. Its good that we can respect each other's opinions without necessarily having to agree with it.

On Point...I agree with what you said about having friends as "Activity buddies" and good friends as emotional support. I have my "poker buddies" and my best friend to give me emotional support. You and I on the same level there.

Im just warning guys here to not try and make friends for the sole purpose of trying to hook up with their female friends or thinking it will help them get laid, like I used to think.

 

[comic_relief]

Im just warning guys here to not try and make friends for the sole purpose of trying to hook up with their female friends or thinking it will help them get laid, like I used to think.

I agree with that, the only way to get laid is to take action. You can have all the social proof, riches, and everything else. Without action it is useless.

comic_relief