Agreed. I wasn't myself because I let it get to me that i was interested. Regardless I should be myself with every girl. I have a date with an absolutely gorgeous girl tomorrow thats all over me, but I really don't care and thats probably why. This one kind of hurts, a lot of build up for nothing.
Opinion..
- Thread starter drf408
- Start date
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
As odd as this will sound there is a natural "flow" to a date that escalates to intimacy. Much of what the mPUAs teach is really emulation of behaviors that follow this flow. Damn near every PUA technique (tools in the toolbox) is a behavior most men in the seminars have never figured out on their own either by way of fear of rejection or simply no opportunity. Kino, C&F, peacocking, open ended questions, conversational skills, isolation, escalation, etc. are all part of this flow. When a guy gets stuck at a particular stage in this flow the date breaks down. This may be him, it may be her, often a combination of both, but the flow stalls out and intimacy is not arrived at.reset said:
It's not a drug, it's an insecurity. For a guy used to rejection (and at some point this is ALL guys) and deprivation, the natural impulse is to blather out as much information as possible in the shortest amount of time for fear that he wont get another stab at girl who accepted his approach. He disrupts the flow and ceases to intrigue the woman. As counterintuitive as this seems (and contrary to the popular belief that women want full disclosure and complete honesty) women want to read a Man chapter by chapter, each chapter being a new reward for her interest. But the AFC rattles off his book's summation from the back cover and feeds her the cliff notes all in the course of a 2 hour date, vomiting it out all over the restaurant table and mistakenly believes it's just a necessary step to intimacy and familiarity. He loses the initiative, his sense of mystery, his challenge and his attention is too easily given - and is therefore worthless because she didn't have to earn it.reset said:
I'm not saying this is the OPs case, but the guy who successfully escalates is the Man who's conscious of this flow and isn't afraid to halt it in order to leave her wanting more - then restarting it, should it hang. The Man who's got options isn't afraid of keeping his own mystery and challenge about him. The guy who does this communicates confidence subconsciously in that she picks up on the fact that his attention (and personal information) is to be earned. I haven't used this term in a while, but it's the 'breadcrumb' ideal that maintains flow. Give her just enough tidbits, breadcrumbs, about yourself to pick up the next one and lead her where you (and she) want her to be.
The sad thing is I am aware of this as well, yet I seem to only get a little better each time I'm in this situation. This one though feels a bit more unusual to me, ive been on many, many dates and I was never as sure that I'd have another one with this girl as I was after the second date..and a very strange way for her to act when she sees me.
Everytime we go out...we have to bring our "A" game. Even with my years of experience, I have repelled a few by over doing it...or saying something that would have work with someone else, but not with this one. Or simply said something that trigger some bad past experience on that woman.
It is life.
It is life.
Well said, i can think of plenty of things i did wrong. And sadly the things I should have done were the things I wanted to do, I second guessed myself right out of it. Especially when she expressed her attraction towards me when she first saw me, I wanted to go in that direction and just wimped out.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
YEs, it is like a drug because the pleasureable feelings of being with an attractive vibrant woman for a few hours are similar to the heady effects of a recreational drug. Brain chemicals are altered, your emotions atre tumbling, your adrenalin is pumping and you are in a high state of arousal and stimulation. The sexual tension builds as you lay the foundations and guide her forward to the target zone.. IT is human nature to want MORE of such a rewarding experience and to prolong the experience .reset said:
To call it an "insecurity " misses the essence of this whole experience.
It ain't insecure at all it is just great fun.
RT, sometimes a banana is just a banana.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
dupe post
Last edited:
Wait. Try this first...next time you see her...simply wink at her and smile. Do it with confidence. If she is with friends...still do it, but do it in such a fashion the others don't see you.drf408 said:Oh..and I am going to take a hail mary pass at her, one very direct shot..at this point i do not have anything to lose. And she is hot
If she found you VERY attractive in the past...she might find you attractive again, because that move implies that you know she has the hots for you...and that you are confident she is going to be yours.
If that does not work...then go for broke at a later day.
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
Granted, I'll give you the chemical aspect of such an experience, but then, by this definition, would you also agree that a person can develop a 'tolerance' to the drug if exposed to it often enough? And by the same definition would not a person so deprived of it or unexperienced with the effects of it be more susceptible to it, thus making a guy prone to insecurities or altered perceptions? And, much like a junkie, would a guy so deprived, be more apt to seek out a "fix" by compromising his own interests and identifying as much as possible with a woman in order to facilitate the effects of the drug?jophil28 said:
I'll be the first to point out the biochemical flush of hormones and endorphins in such an instance, but I'm less concerned about the rush than I am the results of, and the application of, what's going on in the instance. Human beings have a natural impulse to avoid conflict, yet we can train ourselves to fight (martial arts for example) and thereby confidently hold our ground in the face of conflict when our natural self-preservation impulse prompts us to avoid a dangerous situation. We can do the same with the nervousness that comes from public speaking and I'm sure there a lot of other examples where the adrenaline would have us avoid an uncomfortable situation.
Often times conditioning ourselves to do what's best for us seems counterintuitive. Remember your driver's ed class in high school when they taught you that if you ever find yourself in a skid to turn into the skid rather than slam on the brakes? Every part of you wants to stand on the brakes to stop the car, it seems logical and you want to exit a life-threatening situation, but this only makes the skid worse. However, when you force yourself to do the opposite of what seems will work and turn into the skid the car rights itself and straightens out.
Using this example, it would seem that the right idea would be to do the intuitive and perpetuate the good feeling rush of the date by rattling off as much detail about yourself in the shortest amount of time to get to intimacy. It seems to make sense since every guy's been told the way into a woman's pants is to make her feel comfortable with you, to be her friend, be sensitive, listen to her, etc. So he can't appreciate the necessary anxiety that comes from sexual tension in attraction. The attraction phase is uncomfortable and the natural, predictable response is to avoid the discomfort. So while he may be high on endorphins at the time, his rationale is still deductive - how does he get from point A to point B to point C?
She actually replied this morning...it was length but very dry... i did notice that she did not return the sentiment of "it was nice to see you" from my email after seeing her at lunch. However she has been that way from the start, i think she overdoes the "im such a busy girl" routine. I need to respond but not in a way thats going to make he confrontational..
I believe its more the emails..she really seemed excited at the end of the date, but im sure my passiveness didnt help but at least i kept her entertained. She had responded to my email from Friday on Monday..asking me how my weekend was...i got it right before I saw her at lunch..which was awkward for both of us, mostly due to her poor communication, but i made point to go up to her as I am the man here..she said she sent me an email i told her i just got it before heading out. So i went back and replied, told her about my weekend, asked her a few things about hers (based on what she told me)..started it off with ..it was nice to see you at...of course. She replied today with "Sorry for the delay.." and then went into very dry outline of her weekend..that was it..
I'm thinking my only hope is to come be decisive and direct with her and take one more shot. She was clearly very interested and who knows whats going on in her mind..she is still at least replying..and in all honesty I have done nothing..but the lame emails and put the ball in her court..as already pointed out in this thread..
Oh and as for specifics in my emails Friday..it was bad, worst part I knew it. I pretty much worded as "if you have time to do ..let me know"..I then called her Sunday afternoon and left the lame message, which she seems to think was left Sunday night.