Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

LR: Group Orgy in a Bathtub

Jay Fiedler

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First I am not echo1212. Just a longtime lurker and former poster. The mods can check my email and address if they wish.


It is you gangster of love that everytime there has been a slight diss of pap has come running to his defense. You have already admitted that he is a friend of yours.

I don't know much about pap other then his stories sound very longwinded, made up, and I have no idea how he can relate these supposed conversations he has ver batum. I mean what does he have a tape recorder or is he writing everything down? I don't even care what his motives are for being here.

But I do know that early this spring while I was under another name echo1212 gave me very sound, very thoughtful, mature advice. He helped me out alot with a problem I was having with my ex. I was acting like the biggest tool in the world and he helped me see that and to get over it. Then he was banned because of pap. A guy who just offers these FR's with no advice or help to other posters. And the reason he was banned as far as I know is because pap is in with all the mods and the guys who make money off of afc's like me with their get togheters.

You can all believe what you want.
 

drixsa

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ok jay fiedler is echo, its just the sort of immature thing that he would do.

echo, if you have nothing positive to add to paps or anyones posts just act like a man and dont reply

you just come off childish every time u try and insult someone
 

Jay Fiedler

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Drixa, as I stated you can believe what you wish. I have no quarrel with you, or anyone on here for that matter. If you don't believe me, ask the mods to check my computer address and see if its from echo's. I will gaurantee you it isn't.
 

drixsa

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Originally posted by Jay Fiedler
Drixa, as I stated you can believe what you wish. I have no quarrel with you, or anyone on here for that matter. If you don't believe me, ask the mods to check my computer address and see if its from echo's. I will gaurantee you it isn't.
just curious what was your old handle?
 

CLOONEY

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Originally posted by Jay Fiedler
First I am not echo1212. Just a longtime lurker and former poster. The mods can check my email and address if they wish.


It is you gangster of love that everytime there has been a slight diss of pap has come running to his defense. You have already admitted that he is a friend of yours.

I don't know much about pap other then his stories sound very longwinded, made up, and I have no idea how he can relate these supposed conversations he has ver batum. I mean what does he have a tape recorder or is he writing everything down? I don't even care what his motives are for being here.

But I do know that early this spring while I was under another name echo1212 gave me very sound, very thoughtful, mature advice. He helped me out alot with a problem I was having with my ex. I was acting like the biggest tool in the world and he helped me see that and to get over it. Then he was banned because of pap. A guy who just offers these FR's with no advice or help to other posters. And the reason he was banned as far as I know is because pap is in with all the mods and the guys who make money off of afc's like me with their get togheters.

You can all believe what you want.
GOLD. Just what I said, here to give advise and help people out sincerely, not here to, as it seems, "brag" about my stories. And also if that is the truth about pap and echo, no more respect for him!
 

DEKKA

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Originally posted by drixsa
go to FS.com or search this forum for Pap's FR's

hes written hundreds of FRs.

it is not BS.

PAP-

i only wish that with all your FR's youd show how each of your so called "tools" work
if i was shamlessly self-promoting i'd write hundreds of FRs too.

hundreds are better advertisement for his workshops than one or two is.

either way his storys are bullsh!t.
 

Imbrondir

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Papa is well known to have met alot of people in real life from FS.com. I don't see how you can fake that. I do suspect that these FR's are geared to advertise their workshops tho, which I don't have much problem with.

Even if the FR's were fake, I still see value in them. Hey, I find value seeing a james bond movie too. Even tho I doubt there is actually a guy, who has even close to this guy's character.

Go ahead, post that you think the story is fake. But when attempting to argue that it is fake, untill everybody agree, you are just insecure!
 

CLOONEY

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Originally posted by Imbrondir

Go ahead, post that you think the story is fake. But when attempting to argue that it is fake, untill everybody agree, you are just insecure!
I think that word insecure gets thrown around a bit much! It has nothing to do with being insecure thinking a story is fake, it has to do with you thinking the story is fake. Do you even know what that word means? Or do you just like to use it...................!?!
 

CLOONEY

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Oh and I dont think seeing a James Bond movie is any comparison to one of paps "fake" stories!
 

Jay Fiedler

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My main problemo with all of this is echo, who was a well known and respected poster on here for a long time was banned because he said what many of you are saying now. While pap who has been on here for a short time and who offers nothing but those long, fake, or at least embellished fr's and who said stuff right back to echo, is still allowed to post.


Perhaps echo was right in the fact that the only reason he was banned was because pap is friends with the mods and other people like him who run those how-to seminars.
 

Jay Fiedler

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I just did a little research on some previous pap posts. You're not gonna believe this, but pap actually carries around a tape recorder when he goes on dates to record things, at least acoording to one of his friends who came to his defense.

Can you even imagine?

"Hey, uhhh, Daniell, could you speak up a little louder please? I have to study my techniques for later."

What a gay ass.
 

drixsa

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DEKKA- why dont you go to FS.com and post a question how many people have seen papa in action>? and then ask them if any one of the FR's that they have been around with him at are false.

ok first off papa
hasnt advertised anything

i am the one who mentioned FS.com

2nd off hes out there sarging all the time, maybe you dont agree with his methods or his morals but you can learn something from him. personally i am not a big fan of his method or his mindset but he gets results so even if you dont like him you can pick something up from him.

if you dont like what he has to say, act in a mature fashion and blockk him or dont respond to his posts, something echo1212 could do echo, thus his rightful banning, end of echo discussion.

its funny how once you have to take back the fact that his posts are legit you have to insult his charecter
 

Gangster Of Love

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Jay Fiedler,

First of all, I am not a defender of Pap, or anyone else's methods/business, I am a defender of situations. I find it very ironic that the more and more you post, the more you sound like echo1212 in your attitude towards papa. I mean, I am not trying to say you are echo, errrrrrrrrrrr, yes I am, but you sure have started to talk $hit for no apparent reason. Echo kept it up, and got his ass banned. History repeats itself. Just play it cool echo, I mean Jay Fiedler.
 

Pap

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I've just gotten back to LA and now have internet access. It sounds like this board is starting to get quite a bit of drama. I didn't have any involvment in the removal of echo from this board, and also, I post on this board as I love the Game and want to let people know about what I do. I also love teaching and giving advice. I've met with close to 1000 people in the community and I am the president of a local fraternity of pick-up artists in Los Angeles of over 100 people called the LA List. Almost all of my closest friends are PUAs and the game really shaped my lifestyle and I love sharing with the community as it's given so back to me. If anyone wants to chat with me or give me a call to meet up or wing, I am willing to meet. Now, a lot of people have sent me emails privately or responded to this post of mASF so for the guys that have had questions about the report, I'm crossposting here.

First off, when I opened the set, the brunette was sitting on the couch alone, while the other 2 girls were on the opposite couch. So as Joe engaged the other 2 girls, I immediately isolated the brunette simply by opening over the shoulder with the jealous girlfriend opener and then sitting down with a 30 second false time constraint. After the jealous girlfriend opener, I went into the IDV of Us Vs C's with the mini-cold reads and some future adventure projections. She started shooting out IOIish questions to find out about me pretty quickly so I went into the Evolution Phase Shift Kiss Close routine fairly quickly. I hang out with pseudo-celebs and celebs in Hollywood because I network in Hollywood (however, I was in NYC at the time so running into pseudo-celebs in NYC was purely coincidence). I do have plans to enter show biz soon though as I'm starting Project Hollywood on Jan. 1, 2004. The LR takes place in NYC. ManagerOfNineInchNails mentions that he loves Baltimore as a flirtatious glib remark because the girls mentioned to me that they were from Baltimore. However, I expect to have plenty similar events as soon as I move to the Hollywood Hills with Mystery, Style, etc.

Second, when other AMOGs of AFCs enter the set, I occupy them with random logical questions to shut their game down and have them focus on boring fluff (ie. Dude, where you from? Me too. Do you know X Y Z? Wow. Cool. You don't like X Y Z? Good. Then you're cool. Hey are you X Y Z?). They eventually talk so much fluff that they bore themselves out of the set or you'll just suddenly and sharply shift your attention from the AFC/AMOG to the girl and continue gaming the girl while using your body language to totally ignore the dude (which the girl will totally follow because the guy bored the set).

Next, the ManagerOfNIN was a great wing and continually helped me to unlock and game my girl while I was at the crib of the girls. I created social proof with higher value DHV routines. I'm not a particularly rich/famous guy, but I do have a pretty wealthy family. However, I didn't talk about this before I starting biting on HBOExec's neck. I starting spinning social-proofed stories about traveling and people I know only when I was in isolation and focusing on commonalities back in the bathtub and crib of the girls as I know that they have flow too. When I talk to much about social proof-ed stories, I can blow myself out of the set as girls will sometimes react poorly (ie talking Hollywood-talk to hippie-ish girls will blow you out of the set). The quick phase shift I did on HBO-Exec was something just because she shot IOIs at me quick too.

The NIN guy had massive game. That’s why I wasn’t able to blow him out of the set and why he was able to demonstrate enough value and get enough comfort to close. We went from being adversaries to being wings because we went back to the girls’ crib together and by that time, it’s impossible to blow the other AMOG out and at that time, it just made sense that we might as well help each other to get laid.

In the future, I plan to post P.Hollywood reports in the Lounge and PLAY List only in the future and to only post certain reports on the mASF for confidentiality. I also will leave out details of names and places on the public forum if I post FR/LR’s in the future as I want to secure the anonymity of events, people, etc. for Cliff’s List and mASF.

Project Hollywood involves Mystery, Style, and I getting a house in the Hollywood Hills. We recently got the involvement of FX, Steve (from NYC Workshop), and Herbal. The project circles around developing a lifestyle that is conducive to our relationships with women, wealth, and social life. We have secured all financing and are claiming the place today. The project officially launches January 1, 2004.

Some of you want some nightclub access tips and advice. Getting into TopNotch venues is pretty simple. All you have to do is dress well and get there on early in the night OR have hot girls come to the clubs with you. Another thing that Sickboy does is that he will tell the bouncers and promoters at the door that he is entertaining some really important people from out of town and that they should be hooked up, and then he asks for a table to get in. Befriend the door staff for easy access.

Finally, I know many of you are especially interesting in wing tactics and I am too. Psylock was not a student (he was a workshop assistant instructor and close friend from the Lounge). Also, this story takes place after workshop time as I do not close girls during the workshop. The workshop officially ends after 2:30am so the instructors are free to game up and close any girls they want after this time. This report starts SUN 3:30am. During workshop, Tyler, Sickboy, and I will often open sets and accomplish introduce guys into sets so they stay in set or we will go into the set afterwards and help the student maintain the set. Often, I will even isolate a hottie and then bring the student wing in the set and have him engage the target and I’ll occupy the ****blocks. I teach proper winging and often open mixed sets with students to occupy guys while students game girls. The reason why I told Tyler that it was my set is because according to our wing rules, whoever opens the set or enters the set first will gain control of the set (meaning whoever opens the set chooses the target and your wing will not be allowed to steal the target). This ensures satisfaction and regulation over the set and also encourages our wings to open the set so that they can choose the target. We will never steal the sets from our students. Students often wing in short and long sets during the workshop and this takes place throughout different venues so that students can experience both.

In summary, the best wing rules involves the person who opens the set choose the target, and the wing who comes in second needs to occupy the obstacles to help the set stay alive. Another thing that is important is that if you want to do the opposite, you talk about it in advance. For example, my wing Alphamale and I have different kinds of targets as he likes Asian girls more so he may often open the set by occupying and then have me enter the set so that it’ll be easy to open the blondes and brunettes, which is my preference. When you have a lair list in your city, you are able to train lots of wings to help you do this so I recommend that people meet as many other wings in their respective cities so they can help each other wing because having a good wing for me now is one of the most powerful assets. Plus, I love winging with new people as it’s massively fun.

Tyler and I wing with guys and meet openly with guys anytime and everyday we can. I do so everyday with new guys. I wing with guys both in and outside of workshops for fun. If I am not doing workshops, I wing with anyone for free to hang out as I love meeting others; however, it's to wing and have fun not class.

I look forward to meeting guys from the forum as I've met quite a few and winged with a bunch of you guys recently so I look forward to meeting more guys cuz it's been a lot of fun. I also recommend anyone who is not yet part of a Lair List to contact Cliff, get of Cliff's List, and join a free list to meet wings IRL.
 

drZaius09

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I immediately isolated the brunette simply by opening over the shoulder with the jealous girlfriend opener and then sitting down with a 30 second false time constraint. After the jealous girlfriend opener, I went into the IDV of Us Vs C's with the mini-cold reads and some future adventure projections. She started shooting out IOIish questions to find out about me pretty quickly so I went into the Evolution Phase Shift Kiss Close routine fairly quickly.


You've really turned this into some perverted kind of science, haven't you?

I feel so sad when I read sh*t like this. You're really no different than a typical hardcore drug-addict, alcoholic, or degenerate gambler-- you just have a more unusual fix (pu$$y, as it seems, or perhaps a need to feel loved and accepted). I sincerely hope you get help for your problem before a sexually-transmitted disease sweeps the life out from under you.
 

Jay Fiedler

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"I immediately isolated the brunette simply by opening over the shoulder with the jealous girlfriend opener and then sitting down with a 30 second false time constraint. After the jealous girlfriend opener, I went into the IDV of Us Vs C's with the mini-cold reads and some future adventure projections. She started shooting out IOIish questions to find out about me pretty quickly so I went into the Evolution Phase Shift Kiss Close routine fairly quickly."

--------------------------------

Uhhhhhh....you're a geek pap.
 

Gangster Of Love

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Echo, I mean Jay Fiedler,

Stop it. You're obssesed dude! Yeah, that last post of pap was kind of goofy! Haha.
 

xblitz44x

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Yeah and what's even more amazing about that paragraph, is that even without the "jealous girlfriend opener, 30 second false time constraint, INV, mini-cold reads, phase-shifter routines", the girls still wanted to fvck him. All this hocus-pocus did was give him some form of 'direction', thus the confidence to start the dynamic at all.....and a false sense of control.

The bad news is, his routines and methods didn't do a damn thing. The good news is, the girls still wanted to fvck Pap.
 
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