Looks are more important than you think! Merged [Official thread]

[Serialized3]

Depends on the level of attractiveness, in my opinion. Men who are 7's and 8's may enjoy a very slight advantage over other men, but anything over that, and you're looking at a major disadvantage, regardless of what some of these guys are turning red in the face are trying to get us to believe.

However, being nicely dressed will give you a much bigger advantage than facial structure ever could. This is why these looks-matter guys are obsessed. They chose something completely irrelevant, something so insignificant to what really matters in the dating world and chose to focus almost EXCLUSIVELY on this one aspect...even going so far as to keep making threads devoted to this one aspect, in spite of the fact that these such threads are banned.

Seems like we're sort of on the same page here, that being better looking than average gives you an advantage when you first meet a woman. Like some say, I believe looks get you the interview, but personality gets you the job.

I don't know if being better looking than a 7 or 8 (as I'm no higher than an 8 myself) would give you a disadvantage though. It would seem very possible that most girls would see you as 'hot', but the girls with lower self-esteem could find you somewhat intimidating. I guess that would make it easier to qualify women with high self-esteem as they would be the ones that would be more obviously comfortable talking to you. But then you would just have to adjust your game to make them feel more comfortable around you.

As for the clothes thing, I've experimented with wearing both dressy clothes and clothes that fit my style. It seems to me that the dressy clothes attract a wide range of women, while my style attracts a few types of girls (why my take on the skater/snowboarder look attracts mostly "good" girls, preppy girls and hippie chicks I'll never understand, you would think it would attract skater chicks...) But women are attracted no matter what I wear. I haven't taken any Gallup polls about which style attracts numerically more women, but I don't have problems with attracting them. I guess what I took away from it is that as long as you have a sense of style and are confident in what you wear, you can pull girls.

 

[ricorico]

According to Deus,

The guy who played Screech has just as much chance of getting lucky with HB's as mario Lopez or the guy who played Zach. Funny Screech has attitude and confidence, yet he ends up with fuggs and rejects of the other 2. Lopez was married to that hot Landry chick but cheated on her on his honeymoon with one of the gazillion wome willing to get together with him.

 

[ricorico]

Deus,

Camaron Diaz is UGLY!! Pugg nose,crocodile mouth.6 strands of hair without those extensions. Never understood what JT saw in her.

OK Deus, now let me humor you and say you are good looking.
Here's a scenario.

Deus sees good-looking girl. Girl sees Deus and like Deus. Waits for Deus to show interest, give eye contact,start talking to her. Deus does none of the above. The girl knowing guys will usually go up to talk a girl if he is interested thinks Dues may not find her attractive,Deus has a girlfriend or Deus is gay.Deus instead of using his advantage does not. Deus thinks looks don't matter cause if it did she would have run up to talk to him because we all know girls make the first contact all the time. Deus would you do this in business? Let's say you have a great resume and get lots of interest from companies. Do you go to your interviews and do nothing to sell yourself and show your assertiveness. Then say a great resume is not important? It gets you in the door!!! What you do with that advantage is completely up to you!!!It will be a hell of a lot easier to get into a great company with a great resume and a great sense of self ,and verbal skills. We already know this guy has the intelligence proven with his resume, but they are looking for more. But a guy with a so-so resume who had a much harder time getting interviews may get the job if he is smart enough to use his use his intelligence and great verbal skills to get in.

Scenario #2. Deus sees cute girl. Girl sees Deus and thinks him attractive. Deus goes up and talks to her. She is receptive because she has noticed him and was hoping he would come talk to her. Deus ask her for her phone number so he can take her out. Girl gives it. Glad Deus approached her because otherwise,she would not have approached him unless she has ultra high self esteem ,which unfortunately many women do not have. Good-looking men scare 70% of women who prefer them, but think they cannot get a guy with good looks and keep him interested.

 

[Ripper]

Excessive exclamation points aside, your scenario is fundamentally flawed. You're equating looks with "a great resume", when personality, confidence, and presenting yourself well would be a much more appropriate fit.

No. He's correct to draw the analogy he has. The whole essence of the 'resume-job' analogy is that employers reject some people based on their resumes solely. This is analogous to people who reject members of the opposite sex based on their looks (without waiting to see what their personalities/confidence are like).

 

[ricorico]

Deus,

If you are looking for a job with a top firm everyone wants to get into, beleive me they pick their prospects from resume. Then they interview to see who from the X amount of prospects has it all overall.

 

[ricorico]

Nice.


Easy. He makes himself available, and is viewed as approachable by women. I've interacted with women before on MANY ocassions, with not so much as a smile...let alone an "approach". I don't smile, initiate conversation, or look anywhere but straight ahead when I walk. Sometimes, I'll later find out that said woman wanted my come on their face. Too bad for us, I suppose...because some douchebag with confidence and game that stumbled in from off the street after finishing his last 40 is the one giving her the pearl necklace. It's all an illusion, man. We're barely out of the jungle, here. Humans still operate on a very primal level, regardless of the celebrity magazines, cell phones, and the Internet.



.

Deus, yopu don't do anything to show women interest. You walk around like a robot and then think they are all supposed to run up and talk to you because you are Deus? yes, some guys are lucky enough to have women come up and talk to them. But those women are usually very confident and that is not common.
You remind me of some guy who wants to win the lottery,complains but will never play. YOU have to initiate 95% of the time with women. Otherwise they think you are not attracted to them,have a girl or are gay.

I don't know how many times I have heard a girl claim a guy to be gay because she thinks he is cute, but he showed no interest in her. So therefore something must be wrong with him. Easy answer to a girl is that he MUST be gay. They never assume the guy is shy or has LSE if he is good-looking. You seriously need people skills when it comes to women. Walking around like a robot is not going to get you laid. Get help for your HB phobia. Join a class where there are lots of women and a few guys and start talking. I suggested before you get a dog or borrow one. DO SOMETHING!!!!

You know, if the shoe was on the other foot and there was a HB who walked around staring straight ahead,no smile, no interaction I'm sure a lot of guys would not approach her either. You have to allow people to want to get into your space. make them comfortable.

Many of the good-looking guys I know say they always have to approach a woman first with a friendly attitude. They have learned to be less intimidating and more open with facial expressions and body language.

Women are suspicious of them immedietly because of their looks and think they must have lots of girls and must be conceited and full of themselves. So they have to down-play the attitude. In the very same way a HB who you may initially think a snob when you see her looks comes off as a very friendly and genuine person. Because of that attitude that HB will have a hell of a lot more guys approaching her than the one who acts like a robot with her body language and every guy assumes is just a snob. But she may actually just be shy. But in the real world a good-looking guy and girl with little people skills will always get less approaches than an average guy or girl who knows to be open and friendly with the opposite sex.

You act like it's just guys who get the low end of the deal when they have no ooposite sex skills. It happens to women too. 2 girls together one a 9, the other a 7 may see that the not so hot friend gets a lot more play then HB does. because HB will not look at guys,will not approach, smile ect. Then whine about how the great guys will ignore her and talk to the average one because in her mind he wants an easy lay.

It's not that all the guys want an easy lay and talk to the average one as opposed the the better looking one. It' s that the average one is approachable and has learned to maxime her chances at getting men with her personality . The beautiful one has not learned to maximize her chances . She thinks her looks alone should do it all. Then she tells herself the plainer girls get approached more because all guys want an easy lay . She is in denial her personality is what makes them approach her less than her friend,preferring to beleive it's not her. It's them. Which girl is the smart one???

 

[ricorico]

[QUOTE



Finally something we can agree on! It's true. Women are self-absorbed airheads, for the most part. This mindset is absolutely pathetic in my opinion.[/QUOTE]


Deus, yes women are self absorbed and insecure. they need all of their girlfriends to go shopping with them because on their own, they cannot tell what looks good. They form oppinions on guys who do not hit on them as being gay. Then they will complain "How come all the good-looking guys are gay"? Women tell themselves all sorts of stuff in order to make themselves feel better. remember there are few with high self esteem.

The girls with high self esteem will go up to the guy they think is good-looking and initiate contact. that is if this guy is not going around like a robot and at least smiles at her. Women are SCRARED of good-looking guys because they think he will definately cheat on the, Many would preffer an AFC boyfriend who behaves like a damned puppy and flatters her all day long.

 

[ricorico]

deus does'nt seem to get the fact we are saying looks are not a guarentee for anything if you act like a robot.

case in point. Hot girl who does'nt get approached because she gives no eye contact,does'nt smile and does'nt appear friendly with her body language.

cute girl perhaps a 7. She initiates eye contact,smiles and tells guys with body language she is interested.

Now honestly,which girl do you think will get hit on more. Ms. Ice Queen or the one who is warm and makes guys feel good about approaching?

Yes guys care about looks. But we also care about the personality. Girl #1 would not get my attention at all. Why try to get to know someone who looks like she will be a lot of work?.


Girl #2 would get my attention. Probably might ask her out even if she is just cute and won't get other guys to do a double take. Why? She is open, friendly and if nothing comes from it I will at least have a good time with her. I'll trade a couple of notches in looks for someone who has both looks and personality.

 

[ricorico]

Superchill,

I used an analogy of the HB9 with robotic attitude who does'nt smile, give eye contact,or positive body language.Hence she rarely has guys going up to her because they think she is conceited or a snob or just a *****!!

That same girl will watch her friend who is a 7 pull guys because she is confident,smiles, uses her personality and body language to let guys know she is interested.Now we all know guys care about looks. But we also care to know someone is receptive to us.

The Hb89 girl tries to tell herself 1 of 3 things to feel better.

#1, Guys are intimidated by her beauty(never thinking it's her attitude which makes people uncomfortable to approach)
#2. Guys like ugly chicks because they are easy. Sure, all guys like easy for 1 night stand. But guys like women who give them positive feedback who are easy to talk to. We don't like a cold fish.
#3. He must be gay. Greatest self-excuse ever invented by a woman when a guy she is interested in shows no interest.

Now none of these reasons she thinks of is actually what is going on. The Hb9 is blaming everything on why guys are not approaching. Meanwhile her attitude is what is keeping guys away. But she thinks her beauty is what should be the 100% lure and thinks she does'nt have to do anything at all to enhance her chances with men.

EVERYONe has to use every advantage they have in order to get to lure top dog they want. Even hot women have to compete with each other through personality,sex or whatever it takes in order to get the attention of Top Dog. Look at the girls vieing for NBA players or other young sports stars. they know they can't just look good if they want to marry this guy. They use skills to hook him!! Not just merely good looks. If you see some Sports players wives, sure they're pretty. But most are not the most gorgeous girls these guys could get. The girls who usually hook them use their looks and game as an advantage.Girls with just looks get used like ho's. There are plenty of good-looking empty headed girls for these guys to "play with" all day long! It takes more than just good looks to get a great mate even for women.

Any man or woman who thinks "Let me just stand there and have people come up to me even if I am not giving any positive insentive because I look good". Is in for a rude awakening as they will have to settle for a lot lower than what they could have had.These sort of people are dillusional in their own mind. Though they refuse to admit it. They are socially backwards and try very hard not to confront themselves to the fact that is the MAIN reason they are not approached as much as their average friends.they have an advantage and do not know how to use it. Just like the guy with the gun, who had a great advantage, but did'nt know how to use it out of fear or self-doubt and let the guy with the sword take him out!!

 

[FutureSpartan]

Why even bother arguing with Deux. He's too busy analyzing your post sentence-by-sentence like some literary critique paper to see the big picture

 

[Ripper]

Why even bother arguing with Deux. He's too busy analyzing your post sentence-by-sentence like some literary critique paper to see the big picture

Quite. I had some sympathy for the guy when I first came here but from the evidence here he's done nothing to change.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

I thought it's been decided time and again that looks and personality are both important.

Yes, this has been decided already, by the looks matter crowd. THey Both matter, and are both very important. Neither can be neglected if you want to be successful with hot women.

However, the looks DONT matter fools beleive either you can neglect the 'looks' or that it just doesnt matter at all. They are very wrong in this beleif. LOOKS ARE NOT NEGLIGABLE IF YOU WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL WITH HOT WOMEN. HOT WOMEN REQUIRE GOOD LOOKS.

No one on the looks matter side talks about personality mattering becuase this is evident on both sides, so why bring it up?

This discussion is about looks being a pre-requisite for success versus those who say its not.

Looks will get you ATTENTION from chicks and will help you make a good FIRST IMPRESSION. But after that, you need PERSONALITY to pull them and attract them. If you are retarded or a complete weirdo, then most girls will not sleep with you even if you are good looking. Likewise, if you are hideous, you are not going to get good looking chicks.

If she thinks you are really hot, and your personality is average, youll do fine. You should have no problem fvcking her. YOU JUST CANT HAVE A BAD PERSONALITY, then she might reject you even though she thinks you are hot.

And looks are more than just getting her attention. The looks create that fire and that lust inside her that makes her want to fvck you. It works the same way in men.

Most hot guys fvcking the HBs have average joe personalities!

GOGL, the problem with your argument is that you're basically saying that in order to get some pvssy from a girl, she has to immediately feel physically attracted to you.

No, I said that she must see you as good looking. She must looks at you and think either "ooh, hes cute" or "damn, he's soo hot!". Works the same way with guys if you need an example that makes sense to you. If she doesnt see this. then she's thinking "uh, you do nothing for me" or "ewwwww". and thats when you dont stand a chance no matter your personality (statistically speaking)

It'd be more accurate to say that she just can't be REPULSED by you, and that would mean looks only matter if you're HIDEOUS.

nope, she must see you as atleast cute. She cant see you as ugly, and she cant see you as plain average. (again, if shes a hot babe)

But you can't say it's rare that an AVERAGE looking guy is with a HOT girl. Women's tastes aren't as weird as you think, it's very easy to spot when a girl that is clearly model quality is with a guy that looks just like your average joe.

Yeah, its very easy to spot couples like this. But the thing is, that average looking guy is actually good looking in her eyes. What is rare are couples where even she will admit hes not good looking or couples where the guy is clearly disgusting looking.

You see, alot of good looking guys appear average looking to other men. MEN ARE POOR JUDGES OF MALE ATTRACTIVENESS. Its very common for a woman to see a guy and blurt out "ohhh, hes hot!", and then her male friend looks over and sees him and thinks "uhh, okay, that guy is average looking". see what I mean? I mean, women think Scott peterson (the murderer) is good looking when I think most guys would rate him as average.

Not to mention women's taste varies. One woman's ugly is another's hot guy.

All this explains the hot girl-average joe observations perfectly. much better than a "looks dont matter" explanation.

I highly doubt that in all cases, the HB is just somehow extremely physically turned on by the average joe's features.

I never said this is the case ALL OF THE TIME. youre putting words in my mouth. But remember, MEN ARE POOR JUDGES OF MALE ATTRACTIVENESS. most guys who are good looking to women, you will probabily rate as average! Men are usually poor judges. we are accurate some of the time, but hardly all of the time.

Also, your forgetting now, women's tastes are subjective. For example, Some women actually think a kind of big nose is actually hot to them. they get turned on by it. Again, women's tastes are not objective. One woman's ugly guy is anothers hottie.

Maybe it is rare that an UGLY guy is, but if a chick looks at you and you look at least acceptable (key being that she doesn't have to immediately be PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED to you) then you have a shot to win her over with your game.

yes, this is true IF the girl is NOT an HB. average looking chicks have lower standards, so do the "cute" ones. But we are talking about the really hot babes here. the playboy playmate look alikes. THese ones, she must see you as alteast cute.

Tell me, do you think it's impossible for someone whose not initially physically attractive to a woman to turn a woman on with his words and personality?

yes, again, if the woman is ugly or average, anything is possible. ANd there do exist some anomalies in the Hot babe population, but they are rare.

Think about it the other way around. If an average looking girl who you weren't really attracted to started acting real sexy, touching you, teasing you (not DJ/CNF teasing, sexual teasing), you'd probably be eventually willing to hook up with her.

Well Im a good looking guy. I can do way better than that, so no. but you being a not so good looking guy, youll probably do it. See your own "demand" to the opposite sex actually effects your standards or your "price", works the same way with women.

If you're just ugly, then oftentimes you'll just be disqualified right away because they probably won't want to sleep with someone they are physically repulsed by. But you will still be able to pull chicks by turning them on with your WORDS and with your PERSONALITY.

If you are ugly and repulsive, and shes a hot babe, theres like a 1/200 chance that youll be able to turn her on with your words and personality, otherwise it aint gonna happen.

Now if shes ugly or average looking......you have a good chance.

Sexual attraction for females CAN BE CREATED BY PERSONALITY. You can turn a woman on with words and make her feel the same way she does when she sees a hot guy.

Not if shes a hot babe AND she doesnt think your atleast cute (statistically speaking)

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

I could talk about 9/10 of the main ideas, but I would then be accused of dodging arguments.

Still havent posted your source for that poll you speak of.

EVERYONE, DONT LISTEN TO DEUS, HE LIKES TO MAKE UP PHONY BULLSH!T EVIDENCE!!!

So wheres your credibility Deus ex pianoforte?

 

[ricorico]

Men and women are the same. Some have weird taste as I have shown. Some decent looking guys who are in shapw love fat girls. Others are chubby chasers. Some guys like redheads with freckles ect. I have seen guys call a girl hot,which made me wonder what the hell they were smoking! Good looks is in the eye of the beholder.

Also a lot of guys are forgetting women will date men simply because they think he has potential or money. Men don't do that cause we can't fake attraction. Go to any women's honest forums and they will honestly admit they fake it a lot.So many times you may see a woman with an ugly guy how do you know it's not money she is after?

I know a girl who is married to a real doofus. Chick is hot with a great body. His parents insisted she sign a pre-nup because tehy are filthy rich . She would not do it and he eventually came around and literally begged his parents to let the issue go. Now they are married and the "newlyweds" live in a 2 million dollar(not that big in Los Angeles) home. If you saw those two walking down the street, you would think this guy is a player who has game. But reality is, he is whipped and if he did not work in his paren'ts business and stand to inherit a boatload of money, she would not be around. I really don't think she's attracted to him at all cause she brings up her bad-boy non-commitment ex all the time.

I also know a guy who is a doctor but looks retarded. I'm not kiding. Pale skin,limp hands,chinless and thin. But he marrried the first girl he got a date with. This is serious. He was in his 30's before he asked a girl out and she accepted. Anyway girl is not a 10, but about a 7.5 or 8 with a huge rack and skinny body. She barely gave him a peck at the wedding and even folks who were invited were joking about this couple.

Also, don't even get me started on low self esteem girls who can't keep a good looking guy so they lower their standards,therefore having no competition. Girls don't have to have sexual attraction to a guy to date him. They just have to think they are getting something out of it. Money,a doormat to boss around and worship them,whatever. They will Fkk the guy they think is hot on the side. Anyone who still thinks girls are so virtous, they need to have feelings for a guy to fkk him either does'nt go out much or is living in a muslim country.

 

[Cash37]

If you cold approached and properly macked 100 women with an average body you may end up sleeping with 20.

If you cold approached and properly macked the same 100 women with a lean muscular physique you may end up sleeping with around 50.

So yes, they do matter with regards to your odds. Approach and game will get you laid regardless and if only everyone here believed that, they would be getting laid more often

Where are your numbers coming from?

 

[S.S.N. 318]

Women are self-absorbed airheads, for the most part. This mindset is absolutely pathetic in my opinion.

So True cuzz...Verry pathetic at that...

 

[ricorico]

One of my friends lead me to this website. She says this is how girls really talk about guys. Yep, just as shallow. Just more in denial about their wants and willing to sell their sould to the guy with the most cash, or the doormat who will put up will all their BS and hold their purse while they spend his money!
Caution: Nude guys alert! This is what some women do in their spare time. And they think we are shallow!!!
http://www.hollywoodrag.com/index.php?/forums/viewthread/132/

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

One of my friends lead me to this website. She says this is how girls really talk about guys. Yep, just as shallow. Just more in denial about their wants and willing to sell their sould to the guy with the most cash, or the doormat who will put up will all their BS and hold their purse while they spend his money!
Caution: Nude guys alert! This is what some women do in their spare time. And they think we are shallow!!!
http://www.hollywoodrag.com/index.php?/forums/viewthread/132/

great link, youre good at doing your homework rico.

Is it me, or am I the only one noticing that evidence just keeps mounting and mounting and mounting that points to women caring about looks as much as men, being as shallow as men, and basically demonstrating mate selection behavior identical to that seen in men? I know Im not crazy.

yet you poor little "looks DONT matter" (Deus et al.) fools cant seem to produce sh1t. Speaking of inability to produce evidence...Deus, now wheres your poll source again? :crackup:

yep, looks matter, get over it.

 

[DJmindTricks]

^^^i totally agree that women care about looks just as much as men(or rather almost as much as men), they are just a little more subtle about it around men. On the other hand, i do agree that Women are easily swayed by personality (so long as the man passed with at least a "C" on the looks test), moreso than men are swayed by personaily.

So in essence women may actually be the ones that get the short end of the stick, because looking fantastic is pretty much a requirement for them

whereas men can bang real hotties(most of the time) by looking average or above average and by having a great personality and good game...no such luck for most women that are trying to attract CONFIDENT hot guys(not the insecure ones).

I also totally agree on the perception thing you posted, Men ARE NOT a good judge of other men's looks. There are just as many good-looking guys as there are good-looking women.

Some ppl might not like this, but i think men are too harsh on themselves as far as how they look, or how other men look. There are guys that most men think are average-looking that women think are "flaming-Hawt". Just like the scott peterson example. So just being confident in your looks can really take you a long way, not to mention taking care of yourself.

Looks definitely give a good impression, and get the woman to open up to you, now they are not EVERYTHING, but i think looks DO matter, i'd give looks a good 30-40% of the equation.

 

[ricorico]

Just read the whole link. Those girls are more brutal than men. Ever see a girl break up with a guy then start poking fun at his member? She will laugh about it with all of her friends. But when she was with him she would probably lie and tell him how big it is. Girls love to BS guys so they can keep them around to be doormats or ATM's. That's the truth.