I built it, they didn't come

[patb]

Yes, the only persons who are capable of loving you unconditionally are your parents.

With everyone else, affection is ultimately transactional - people like you for being funny/high status/good-looking/industrious etc. As soon as you stop displaying something that made people like you, people leave.

And here's the thing: displaying desirable traits is directly connected to wealth and status. Wealth buys you freedom, which leads to better health, self-care, interesting hobbies, events etc.

And yes, friendships are still true friendships (or as true as they can be). It's just that people want to be with other people who are on the same level. It's the game of life, where we all unconsiously want to be associated with people who are similar to ourselves or better.

Some women, for example, only want to spend time with high status men because they view themselves worthy. High status men behave in a certain way, talk about different topics than low status men etc. Some only want to spend time with people who are fit and work out.

Imagine two scenarios:
1) Ask a friend to go on a skiing trip with you. Both pay their own share and spend time frugally. In general, there is hesitation to go on a trip like that.
2) Ask a friend to go on a skiing trip with you, your treat. You pay for an upper class hotel, promise nice dinners and fun time. See their face light up, with a big smile they instantly like you more (genuinely even). Now you are a fun person with a nice lifestyle, instantly more attractive to 99% of people.

I didn't invent this, it's how the world works.

I'd argue the intra-sex dynamic is a little different -- men actually prefer friends that are a little lower than them, and don't like to be indebted. But generally yes.

 

[allergictobs]

This is the third or fourth time in a row I broke my own no-fap no-porn thing today. It looks like any discussion of escorts are bewitching. It's like a trigger word in and of itself. You know, I got the location of like 6 different incalls, can just literally drive out and visit an escort (average drive is less than 12 minutes away, and cost is at least $ 80/ hh), and then I went hey-wire lookign at escort pics and ended up fapping on the whole thing. Now I feel sick. This is the third time today and frankly I don't think I can't handle discussions involving escorts without it turning into a fap session.

I think you should not read this thread anymore if it causes such a reaction.

By the way, note that I live in Europe where escorting is not illegal. And, I say this not to brag but to clarify, $80 per hour is not a high quality escort and I would never see anyone like that. The going rate where I live is 5-10 times that and they don't do short visits. Again, not to brag but to make a clear distinction between high-end escorts and something I'd stay far away from.

 

[corrector]

I think you should not read this thread anymore if it causes such a reaction.

By the way, note that I live in Europe where escorting is not illegal. And, I say this not to brag but to clarify, $80 per hour is not a high quality escort and I would never see anyone like that. The going rate where I live is 5-10 times that and they don't do short visits. Again, not to brag but to make a clear distinction between high-end escorts and something I'd stay far away from.

I thought you could at least cop a feel (ie if you want to grope in public but dont get into trouble) with a low end one if you just want to grope a woman's a$$?

I used to grope mannequins until I met the first "low end" escort. I danced together with her completely nude and I kept my underware on the whole time. She even offered her a$$ and I could not get hard (even in my underware). However since that time, I lost the desire to grope women or mannequins because she satisfied that craving forever. In this sense to get rid of a desire to publically grope women was worth the $60. The second escort visited was a different experience.

 

[Solomon]

OP did everything right, may be your location OP I would recommend traveling as much as you can
I got a buddy in a similar situation as you he became a millionaire still couldn't get women
He came to my town for a weekend and cleaned up
Now he's gotton super rippped so he has no problem but yeah OP maybe go on more holidays

 

[Fruitbat]

My guess is social skills.

I’ve managed to attract women being plenty overweight. Silver tongue works a charm.

killer lines? None. No such thing. You just gotta be fun and have imagination.

if you have all of the above it has GOT to be your social interactions because at 36 and tubby I could still go get laid if I put a bit of work in.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

this is a good point, I wouldn't downplay location. In some locations, women are actually looking for a man, in some they are "take it or leave it" at best. It doesn't seem like it should make that much of a difference, but it makes pretty much all the difference in some cases. Have seen many friends go from de-facto incel to doing well simply by moving. Women need to have a little scarcity introduced into their surroundings to be able to acknowledge high value in one person.

I had attractive women paying to fly to see me when I was in one of the worst dating markets in the US, while I couldnt get a date locally with someone half as attractive. My SMV would drop or increase 50% every time I got on a plane to leave or return from there.

Where was "there"?

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Pac NW

Traditionally, the fruits and nuts who didn't fit in and weren't attractive migrated there instead of California

 

[Gamisch]

Just trying to understand you based on your threads and posts, and from what I gather, it's textbook MGTOW.

I think you are viewing this very differently from the way I see it (and you should probably accept that people can view things differently).

I have accepted that I didn't succeed in the dating game, for whatever reason. I mean, I'm soon 40 years old and it would require almost a miracle to find a much younger woman who would want to date me long-term.

So I look at it like this: I will probably be sexually active for many years to come and I can either
a) have sex with lingerie models, go on vacations and spend unforgettable moments with them
b) not use escorts and hope that I get lucky occasionally (which, given my lifestyle is extremely rarely)
Which of these two scenarios leads to more happiness? I guess it depends on the person.

Now, I haven't completely stopped playing the dating game, but I have stopped actively pursuing women because it is very unproductive. I will only approach someone if the situation arises naturally and there are signs of attraction. If I didn't see escorts, I might be much more nervous in a situation like that (because men tend to be that way if they rarely get laid).

So in essence, I have separated sex life from the dating game. I think it is somewhat similar to a FWB situation.

That's not what a fwb situation really looks like. There's flirting, the banter, innuendo ect. Genuine interest. The build up and eagerness from a woman to see you is someting you cant buy. The wish for a healthy relationship with a woman is normal, why would you step away from that?

I agree with @corrector , you are just coping . You make the thread, and conclude within the same thread you are fine with this lifestyle. Great if found the answers you were looking for, it's just a shame you accept this defeatist mindset.

Hookers offer you a service. Don't ever be fooled their interest is sincere. I understand most men try to stay away from this lifestyle. It's an absolute last resort, and after the post nut clearity a man must have hard think. To me its almost like doing drugs, a absolute low point . It's hard to describe the feeling of emptiness when you're done with a prostitute and leave.

Both hooker and client are equally damaged. Both will have multiple people wishing things could be different for them. OP is unable to realize that this lifestyle is creating a negative perpetual loop. By becoming a regular visitor you constanly damage your self esteem.

You'd be surprised how easy it can be to build real relationships with women. You are on the right path by starting the thread , now you should just be open to learn new ideas. You wouldn't be the first man to do it.

 

[European-DJ]

That is why self improvement can be sick advice. You end up with attention from undesirable women that are 4 points below you and you feel ripped off. The fact that you are escortcelling shows me you have to pay for the company of women (that in a normal and functional society ) that you would otherwise deserve. At least you can afford that hobby. How often are you escortcelling?

I firmly believe that for people who experience lack of results this is driven by:
A) they think to highly of themselves (I.e. that 4 point difference is more likely to be 1);
B) they don’t put the required level of effort in.

I have never dated as many beautiful women as I have over the past 6 months: all thanks to 12 weeks of dedicated (HARD) effort and genuinely being a caring person to the women I see. That’s how little it took; all while managing a 1HR workout routine and a 10-12hr work day. It’s about being creative.

I am at a point now where I am breaking it off with girls that I never thought would give me a chance - and THEY are super sad about it when I break it off and desperately try to fix things.

@corrector, did you stick to the routine we spoke about 2-3 months ago? Am genuinely curious to know whether you’re seeing any tangible results

 

[corrector]

I firmly believe that for people who experience lack of results this is driven by:
A) they think to highly of themselves (I.e. that 4 point difference is more likely to be 1);
B) they don’t put the required level of effort in.

I have never dated as many beautiful women as I have over the past 6 months: all thanks to 12 weeks of dedicated (HARD) effort and genuinely being a caring person to the women I see. That’s how little it took; all while managing a 1HR workout routine and a 10-12hr work day. It’s about being creative.

I am at a point now where I am breaking it off with girls that I never thought would give me a chance - and THEY are super sad about it when I break it off and desperately try to fix things.

@corrector, did you stick to the routine we spoke about 2-3 months ago? Am genuinely curious to know whether you’re seeing any tangible results

I have another thread devoted to the subject on the Health Section called Emotional Eating. There is allot of personal issues where I am a shared caregiver for my mother along with my dad, and am glued together with my folks (ie the set-up here is too tight to accomodate any new women without turning this set-up upside down), and this has lead to allot of emotional eating (ie not necessarily binging, but eating the wrong types of foods with insufficent sleep and exercise). At this time I have visited my doctor and I'm being assigned a dietician (she refused to prescribe any weight loss prescription meds until natural remedies of losing weight are tried first). There was a work-out routine, but the local gym I went at closed due to a sprinker system malfunction that damged all the equipment. I'm looking into other gyms to resume a work-out routine during for the remaining winter months.

 

[patb]

I firmly believe that for people who experience lack of results this is driven by:
A) they think to highly of themselves (I.e. that 4 point difference is more likely to be 1);
B) they don’t put the required level of effort in.

There were people that firmly believed the Earth is held aloft by a giant turtle, too.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I would consider NorCal part of the same ilk. San Jose through Seattle are absolute dating wastelands.

No love for the Redding Methheads or the Willow Creek Sasquatches?

 

[corrector]

There were people that firmly believed the Earth is held aloft by a giant turtle, too.

You are talking to a successful red-piller with such contempt? Honestly, what is wrong with you dude?

 

[patb]

You are talking to a successful red-piller with such contempt? Honestly, what is wrong with you dude?

I wasn't aware I was in such exalted company. I just really have no patience for the whole just world fallacy schtick. It's just non-falsifiable nonsense that makes the advocate feel good about themselves but doesn't actually explain reality.

 

[corrector]

I wasn't aware I was in such exalted company.

You are indeed privileged.

 

[Ricky]

This thread is a few years old but has continued up until last month. I am kind of bookmarking it for reading but I know alot of guys that are in a similar position as the OP.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This thread is a few years old but has continued up until last month. I am kind of bookmarking it for reading but I know alot of guys that are in a similar position as the OP.

The key is understanding that building something is great but you still have to be able to have a social presence and carry and conduct yourself in an attractive way.

Also, building something does nothing if you aren't putting in any effort and expecting women to suddenly fall out of the sky. That's not going to happen. You still have to actively be putting work in and putting forth an effort.

 

[BMX]

Keep building yourself up. You have to. I just did what our mod TheProspect said to do with spring cleaning of your friendships. It helped me tremendously in cutting out the crappy friendships that wasted a lot of my energy and time (think 40 minute phone calls) talking over and over about useless, narcissistic bullsh it. Now I can hit the gym and study for my certs stress and guilt-free, not worrying about these fools calling or texting. Get your happiness right on your own and keep it up, because you are the one dealing with yourself the most of all.

 

[Fruitbat]

[

genuinely being a caring person to the women I see.

This is the full circle. Many start being supplicating simps. Then come the years of being an ******* (it’s better than being a simp)

eventually you realise women are people too. Once you have abundance you can be kind. Someone once told me to stop seeing women as prey and start treating them more like you treat your friends. This actually was great advice. This allows you the honesty too. If a friend acted like a flaky jerk you would call it out. It’s not to treat them like you’re their GIRL friend but to de pedestalise them and just treat them like anyone else

 

[SW15]

It's possible to build it and women not come. @sangheilios is a great example of this. He was genetically blessed and made it to 6'4". Beyond that, he worked in the gym and built a desirable physique. 6'4" with muscles is the foundation of a top tier man. This is the man that women are supposed to be chasing on swipe apps and in the real world.

@sangheilios just addressed this topic in a separate thread.

The issue with telling men to work on self improvement

I've been seeing an interesting trend with mainstream media and youtube, where there is a lot of content recently discussing the issues that young men are experiencing with the modern dating market. There was one piece on CNN saying that over 60% of men were single while around 1/3 women were in...

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