I don't really see staying absolutely on the exact topic of the original post being a practical goal. As a conversation flows (especially a more involved conversation) the original topic is going to be expanded and broadened to a varying extent. I don't think that's a bad thing. What I DO think is bad for a thread is arguments, pissing contests and anything that takes the conversations to a place that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at all. If the original post is about when to call and it evolves into how to handle potential issues during the phone conversations, in my opinion, that is still a part of the same topic and is a natural progression of the discussion. That's not bad in my opinion. As long as the thread grows in a GOOD direction, there's really nothing wrong with that. It's when it goes from a healthy and mature debate and discussion into the personal attacks and insults that halts all decent discussion or the "Don't confuse the newbies!" posts that frustrate anyone who want to go deeper than the surface that really causes the problems.
How about an Advanced DJing forum?
- Thread starter Wyldfire
- Start date
Well. I'm not sure anyone really cares, but I'll chime in here.
Since I've been lurking and posting here for a while, I have naturally progressed from AFC to a semi-respectable DJ status. In that time, I've become accustomed to seeing certain topics repeated. I always try to help out newbies to some extent, because they have the most to learn.
Some newbies are a pain in the a$$, but that's to be expected. They simply are here to cause problems and have no intention of contributing to the forum or taking the advice given. Given the technology we're working with here, it's just going to have to be expected to a certain degree.
As far as advanced topics are concerned, of course I would like to see more of that. I think the basic DJ principles have benefitted me to an incredible degree. Topics that have a little more "meat" to them interest me a great deal. Whether or not that can be accomplished at this site is the question.
DeepBlue presented a very interesting concept with the "glass window (or door)" forum, but I don't know if that can be implemented here. That's up to Allen, I suppose.
I guess one thing I have a problem with is when someone supposedly presents an "advanced" topic, which, in fact, is merely a soapbox to present a skewed (incorrect) view of the DJ principles.
It's no secret that I've had conflicts with certain posters here who I believe aren't contributing information in the "spirit" that this site has intended. The purpose of this site is:
To help MEN learn how to properly pick-up, seduce, date and possibly enter a relationship with the women of their dreams.
Now, that's the Gipper definition, but I don't think it's too far off from Allen's vision.
That being said, the advice given here has to be presented in a certain way. This is because, yes, you CAN confuse the newbies! If they view a thread that offers something that is completely contrary to what experienced DJ's know works, they WILL be confused and they will continue to suffer in their interactions with women. No one wants that, because we've all been that newbie AFC at one time or another.
I take it as a personal responsibilty to make sure the newbies aren't confused. They need to see the basics, and they need to see them often.
An advanced topic might not be appropriate for a newbie. To use a poor analogy, you wouldn't give a child a loaded gun. Similarly, you shouldn't present an advanced topic to a newbie. They probably wouldn't understand the complexities of a flexible scenario.
Now. How do we know when they're ready to learn the "advanced" stuff? An excellent question that I don't know the answer to. How did I know I was ready? Hmmm. I just did. I think you can read the responses to some posters and know they are "ready".
Take DeepBlue for example. The first time I saw one of his posts, I knew immediately he was mature, intelligent, and knew what he was talking about. Sixpaki GQ? Well, you know.
I know I didn't solve a damn thing here; that wasn't my intention. I just wanted to get my opinion out there.
You folks have a nice day.
Gipper
------------------
"There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know you're money, and that you want to party.
-Trent, from "Swingers"
"Keep your girlfriend away from me,
Just advice I’m giving you for free,
Wanna have every thing I see,
So keep your girlfriend away from me..."
-Local H, from "Here Comes The Zoo"
Since I've been lurking and posting here for a while, I have naturally progressed from AFC to a semi-respectable DJ status. In that time, I've become accustomed to seeing certain topics repeated. I always try to help out newbies to some extent, because they have the most to learn.
Some newbies are a pain in the a$$, but that's to be expected. They simply are here to cause problems and have no intention of contributing to the forum or taking the advice given. Given the technology we're working with here, it's just going to have to be expected to a certain degree.
As far as advanced topics are concerned, of course I would like to see more of that. I think the basic DJ principles have benefitted me to an incredible degree. Topics that have a little more "meat" to them interest me a great deal. Whether or not that can be accomplished at this site is the question.
DeepBlue presented a very interesting concept with the "glass window (or door)" forum, but I don't know if that can be implemented here. That's up to Allen, I suppose.
I guess one thing I have a problem with is when someone supposedly presents an "advanced" topic, which, in fact, is merely a soapbox to present a skewed (incorrect) view of the DJ principles.
It's no secret that I've had conflicts with certain posters here who I believe aren't contributing information in the "spirit" that this site has intended. The purpose of this site is:
To help MEN learn how to properly pick-up, seduce, date and possibly enter a relationship with the women of their dreams.
Now, that's the Gipper definition, but I don't think it's too far off from Allen's vision.
That being said, the advice given here has to be presented in a certain way. This is because, yes, you CAN confuse the newbies! If they view a thread that offers something that is completely contrary to what experienced DJ's know works, they WILL be confused and they will continue to suffer in their interactions with women. No one wants that, because we've all been that newbie AFC at one time or another.
I take it as a personal responsibilty to make sure the newbies aren't confused. They need to see the basics, and they need to see them often.
An advanced topic might not be appropriate for a newbie. To use a poor analogy, you wouldn't give a child a loaded gun. Similarly, you shouldn't present an advanced topic to a newbie. They probably wouldn't understand the complexities of a flexible scenario.
Now. How do we know when they're ready to learn the "advanced" stuff? An excellent question that I don't know the answer to. How did I know I was ready? Hmmm. I just did. I think you can read the responses to some posters and know they are "ready".
Take DeepBlue for example. The first time I saw one of his posts, I knew immediately he was mature, intelligent, and knew what he was talking about. Sixpaki GQ? Well, you know.
I know I didn't solve a damn thing here; that wasn't my intention. I just wanted to get my opinion out there.
You folks have a nice day.
Gipper
------------------
"There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know you're money, and that you want to party.
-Trent, from "Swingers"
"Keep your girlfriend away from me,
Just advice I’m giving you for free,
Wanna have every thing I see,
So keep your girlfriend away from me..."
-Local H, from "Here Comes The Zoo"
Gipper, I don't think that MOST of the newer posters would really have as big of a problem as a lot think they would with being able to comprehend deeper subjects. The way I see it is that most of the newbies are probably having some confidence and self esteem issues. That means they have likely already been reading the stuff here for quite awhile before actually posting. Confidence doesn't come quickly to a person who is constantly hearing stuff like "don't confuse him" and being treated like they don't know their arse from their elbow. Maybe there are SOME who are really that bad...but it's not many. And those particular ones who ARE bad don't seem to "get" even the most basic of concepts. When the elevated discussions are shut down with these pissing contests over what is and isn't suitable for newbie eyes it doesn't help the guys on here to learn that there are times when it's okay or even better to adjust the methods used to suit their situation or even their personality. It boils down to censorship and sending the new guys the message that although everyone here tells them to go out and gain confidence, some of the guys actually inhibit their ability to BE confident. Personally, I think they deserve more credit than they are given on here.
Although many would argue that my opinions on some things here differ from the methods of this site...the majority of the time, my advice for specific situations and questions is essentially the same as what the rest of the people here give. The main difference is that I present it a bit differently and I am a real stickler for taking responsibility and holding oneself accountable rather than blaming. That's very important in the "better yourself" aspect of things.
It's good that you want to help the new guys that come on here, and that's very admirable. At the same time, in some ways that helpfulness can be both harmful and destructive to the confidence of guys who are already struggling. I think the newbies' confidence will grow faster and stronger if the other guys on here showed more confidence in them. I still think that the different kinds of discussions should be separated, though. And personally, I find the new guys a lot less of a problem for more in depth discussions than those who are trying so hard to protect them.
Although many would argue that my opinions on some things here differ from the methods of this site...the majority of the time, my advice for specific situations and questions is essentially the same as what the rest of the people here give. The main difference is that I present it a bit differently and I am a real stickler for taking responsibility and holding oneself accountable rather than blaming. That's very important in the "better yourself" aspect of things.
It's good that you want to help the new guys that come on here, and that's very admirable. At the same time, in some ways that helpfulness can be both harmful and destructive to the confidence of guys who are already struggling. I think the newbies' confidence will grow faster and stronger if the other guys on here showed more confidence in them. I still think that the different kinds of discussions should be separated, though. And personally, I find the new guys a lot less of a problem for more in depth discussions than those who are trying so hard to protect them.
By now I am with Allen on this: It makes my head hurt.
I enjoy giving advice to anyone, newbie or otherwise, if I feel like I have something of value to say.
I also enjoy the various fun threads you have going here.
The site has been, and still is wonderful for those two things.
There are two other things that I'd like to be able to do here, but maybe this site just isn't set up for that. They are:
1. It would be nice to have some serious discussions on things like how to best find "the woman of your dreams" as Gipper put it, without having everyone accuse you of "one-itis" and diss you for failing to accept a lifelong diet of brief encounters with new conquests as THE ONLY TRUE PATH.
2. It would be an interesting challenge to explore the limitations of existing DJ concepts without having to deal with those people who just learned the concepts and are still trying to defend it in their own minds, rather than question it. For instance the idea that women like jerks. Is it the jerkiness they like or the challenge? Would women respond the same way if guy were to be more challenging in a nice way? Are some women conditioned to be drawn to true jerks, just as some women get conditioned to pursue abusers? If so, is there an easy way to recognize such women? Etc, etc, etc.
If anyone figures out a way to make the latter two types of discussions feasible here, let me know! Till then I will post every once in a while, enjoying the site for the things it does offer, rather than lamenting the fact that it could be offering something more.
DeepBlue
I enjoy giving advice to anyone, newbie or otherwise, if I feel like I have something of value to say.
I also enjoy the various fun threads you have going here.
The site has been, and still is wonderful for those two things.
There are two other things that I'd like to be able to do here, but maybe this site just isn't set up for that. They are:
1. It would be nice to have some serious discussions on things like how to best find "the woman of your dreams" as Gipper put it, without having everyone accuse you of "one-itis" and diss you for failing to accept a lifelong diet of brief encounters with new conquests as THE ONLY TRUE PATH.
2. It would be an interesting challenge to explore the limitations of existing DJ concepts without having to deal with those people who just learned the concepts and are still trying to defend it in their own minds, rather than question it. For instance the idea that women like jerks. Is it the jerkiness they like or the challenge? Would women respond the same way if guy were to be more challenging in a nice way? Are some women conditioned to be drawn to true jerks, just as some women get conditioned to pursue abusers? If so, is there an easy way to recognize such women? Etc, etc, etc.
If anyone figures out a way to make the latter two types of discussions feasible here, let me know! Till then I will post every once in a while, enjoying the site for the things it does offer, rather than lamenting the fact that it could be offering something more.
DeepBlue
As per usual, I disagree.
Most of the newbies here, quite evidently, fail to read very much before posting a question or seeking advice. Even fewer than that read the DJ Bible before posting.
And I never meant to imply that that the newbies can only handle simplicity. They can handle many concepts, some complex, but they must be taught with some consistancy. The "pissing contests", as you call them, are the epitome of inconsistancy. That's the confusing part for them.
And since you mentioned the "pissing contests", let's discuss them. How do most of them start? Think about it.
Most of these pissing contests/extended posts begin when someone posts something that the majority of us know is wrong. It may be an opinion (the merits of dating single moms, or how soon to call after getting the number), or some kind of outrageous statement.
And Wyldfire, I think you know that you tend to make statements that elicit a "Bullsh!t" response from a great deal of us here. You also post opinions that are correct; some are right out of the DJ Bible. To a newbie, that's where a lot of the inconsistancy (confusion) takes place.
They think, "Well, if a woman says it's OK to call the same day you get the number, then maybe it's OK. Everyone agreed with her about that 'Confidence' post." *Note: I know you didn't say this; I used it for illustrative purposes.*
See my point?
I would be the last one here to promote any kind of censorship. I welcome differing opinions; that's where progress is made. But by the same token, there have to be some concrete guidelines to follow. Just because I think I should be able to speed through a school zone at 100 mph, doesn't make it a good idea.
You have to learn to walk before you run; you have to learn the alphabet before you write a novel. And the newbies here need to learn their equivalent of the alphabet (the DJ Bible) before they tackle anything harder. And the truth is, most of the newbies don't have the basics down before jumping into "advanced" discussions. In other words, you have to know the rules before you can know when to break them.
Gipper
------------------
"There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know you're money, and that you want to party.
-Trent, from "Swingers"
"Keep your girlfriend away from me,
Just advice I’m giving you for free,
Wanna have every thing I see,
So keep your girlfriend away from me..."
-Local H, from "Here Comes The Zoo"
Most of the newbies here, quite evidently, fail to read very much before posting a question or seeking advice. Even fewer than that read the DJ Bible before posting.
And I never meant to imply that that the newbies can only handle simplicity. They can handle many concepts, some complex, but they must be taught with some consistancy. The "pissing contests", as you call them, are the epitome of inconsistancy. That's the confusing part for them.
And since you mentioned the "pissing contests", let's discuss them. How do most of them start? Think about it.
Most of these pissing contests/extended posts begin when someone posts something that the majority of us know is wrong. It may be an opinion (the merits of dating single moms, or how soon to call after getting the number), or some kind of outrageous statement.
And Wyldfire, I think you know that you tend to make statements that elicit a "Bullsh!t" response from a great deal of us here. You also post opinions that are correct; some are right out of the DJ Bible. To a newbie, that's where a lot of the inconsistancy (confusion) takes place.
They think, "Well, if a woman says it's OK to call the same day you get the number, then maybe it's OK. Everyone agreed with her about that 'Confidence' post." *Note: I know you didn't say this; I used it for illustrative purposes.*
See my point?
I would be the last one here to promote any kind of censorship. I welcome differing opinions; that's where progress is made. But by the same token, there have to be some concrete guidelines to follow. Just because I think I should be able to speed through a school zone at 100 mph, doesn't make it a good idea.
You have to learn to walk before you run; you have to learn the alphabet before you write a novel. And the newbies here need to learn their equivalent of the alphabet (the DJ Bible) before they tackle anything harder. And the truth is, most of the newbies don't have the basics down before jumping into "advanced" discussions. In other words, you have to know the rules before you can know when to break them.
Gipper
------------------
"There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know you're money, and that you want to party.
-Trent, from "Swingers"
"Keep your girlfriend away from me,
Just advice I’m giving you for free,
Wanna have every thing I see,
So keep your girlfriend away from me..."
-Local H, from "Here Comes The Zoo"
Hello DeepBlue!
My head hurts too, but it's because I had too many malted adult beverages last night.
I would like to discuss the topic regarding how to find the woman of your dreams any time you're ready. How could I get in touch with you?
Also, I think the "jerk" question has been beat to death, but I suspect you may have some new ideas about it. If you want to discuss that, let me know.
Gipper
------------------
"There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know you're money, and that you want to party.
-Trent, from "Swingers"
"Keep your girlfriend away from me,
Just advice I’m giving you for free,
Wanna have every thing I see,
So keep your girlfriend away from me..."
-Local H, from "Here Comes The Zoo"
Gipper...I have talked with several guys in chat who have only recently begun to post but have read here for up to 2 years. That's what I was going on.
You have NEVER heard me advise anyone to call the next day. I consistently say that it is my opinion that the 3rd day is the best overall bet unless you are too nervous, or the woman was really biotchy, then 5 or more is best. I spelled out my reasoning for that and it's 100% rational reasons.
The main thing that elicits the pissing contests that I'm involved in is when I point out that someone is contributing to their own problems or are doing something pretty harsh for no reason. Those are the in general discussions. The specific advice I give is pretty consistent with everyone else here. I don't sidetrack threads by myself and I do not set out to piss anyone off.
You have NEVER heard me advise anyone to call the next day. I consistently say that it is my opinion that the 3rd day is the best overall bet unless you are too nervous, or the woman was really biotchy, then 5 or more is best. I spelled out my reasoning for that and it's 100% rational reasons.
The main thing that elicits the pissing contests that I'm involved in is when I point out that someone is contributing to their own problems or are doing something pretty harsh for no reason. Those are the in general discussions. The specific advice I give is pretty consistent with everyone else here. I don't sidetrack threads by myself and I do not set out to piss anyone off.
Giovanni Casanova
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2002
- Messages
- 5,550
- Reaction score
- 18
- Age
- 44
- Location
- Hiding in Penkitten's Linen Closet
It would be nice if newbies all had the correct assumptions and ideas and opinions in their heads when they first come onto this site, and a few of them actually do, but a great majority don't. It's not going to do any good to go ahead and just reinforce their misconceptions by telling them to just trust their instincts and go with whatever they believe because a great deal of their beliefs are ill-conceived. They will become more confident over time as they begin to understand and apply the concepts, but those concepts are not just granted overnight. It's like learning anything else... like algebra. When you give a kid a problem... "9+X=13" and the kid says "8", you don't say "GREAT JOB... WAY TO TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS... WHATEVER YOU FEEL IS RIGHT IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO!" No. The correct answer is "4", not "8". You might build up their confidence by telling them that "8" is right, but it's just going to make them confident in the WRONG ANSWER. Once they learn how to solve the problems, they will become confident.
------------------
CASANOVA
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
Lazarus Long
"Woman was God's second mistake."
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)
------------------
CASANOVA
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
Lazarus Long
"Woman was God's second mistake."
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)
Wyldfire wrote:"You have NEVER heard me advise anyone to call the next day. I consistently say that it is my opinion that the 3rd day is the best overall bet unless you are too nervous, or the woman was really biotchy, then 5 or more is best. I spelled out my reasoning for that and it's 100% rational reasons."
Geez. Would you at least read what I wrote before going off...
"They think, "Well, if a woman says it's OK to call the same day you get the number, then maybe it's OK. Everyone agreed with her about that 'Confidence' post." *Note: I know you didn't say this; I used it for illustrative purposes.*"
She also wrote:
"The specific advice I give is pretty consistent with everyone else here."
In your earlier posts, I agree. Later on, well, maybe not so much...
And finally, she wrote:
"I don't sidetrack threads by myself and I do not set out to piss anyone off."
I never said you sidetracked them yourself. It take two to tango, but you are consistantly one of the two.
Gipper
------------------
"There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know you're money, and that you want to party.
-Trent, from "Swingers"
"Keep your girlfriend away from me,
Just advice I’m giving you for free,
Wanna have every thing I see,
So keep your girlfriend away from me..."
-Local H, from "Here Comes The Zoo"
[This message has been edited by Gipper (edited 04-04-2002).]
Geez. Would you at least read what I wrote before going off...
"They think, "Well, if a woman says it's OK to call the same day you get the number, then maybe it's OK. Everyone agreed with her about that 'Confidence' post." *Note: I know you didn't say this; I used it for illustrative purposes.*"
She also wrote:
"The specific advice I give is pretty consistent with everyone else here."
In your earlier posts, I agree. Later on, well, maybe not so much...
And finally, she wrote:
"I don't sidetrack threads by myself and I do not set out to piss anyone off."
I never said you sidetracked them yourself. It take two to tango, but you are consistantly one of the two.
Gipper
------------------
"There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know you're money, and that you want to party.
-Trent, from "Swingers"
"Keep your girlfriend away from me,
Just advice I’m giving you for free,
Wanna have every thing I see,
So keep your girlfriend away from me..."
-Local H, from "Here Comes The Zoo"
[This message has been edited by Gipper (edited 04-04-2002).]
Gipper wrote:
I would like to discuss the topic regarding how to find the woman of your dreams any time you're ready. How could I get in touch with you?
Well I'm glad to hear you're interested in discussing it, that's cool. What I'm really hoping we can do is to get a thread going on it to solicit LOTS of input on it.
Unfortunately, this is a topic where I have much more to learn than I have to offer. That is partly why I am interested in it.
However, once we get a good discussion going with a nice variety of ideas thrown onto the table I know that I will begin to see some patterns emerging and my mind will start coming up with some new ideas and fresh insights on the topic.
Also, I think the "jerk" question has been beat to death, but I suspect you may have some new ideas about it. If you want to discuss that, let me know.
That was just the first example that easily came to mind of a topic where non-newbies might want to explore the limitations of currently held rules of thumb.
I agree that it has been beat to death, but most of the beating consists of going back and forth between reasons why women are attracted to jerks versus claims that they're not. Very little of the material on it is aimed at really "dissecting" jerk behavior to definitively isolate the "active ingredient".
I just thought of a funny sig:
"I AM the active ingredient"
DeepBlue
"A man's sig file should never be longer than his post."
I'd like to see this discussion. I probably wouldn't have any insights to add to it, but I'd like to see it. I like to learn from the older guys (Gipper I know is a good bit older than me), or at least see what they are thinking about, even if I don't participate.
Outstanding. Ready when you are, DB.Originally posted by DeepBlue:
Gipper wrote:
I would like to discuss the topic regarding how to find the woman of your dreams any time you're ready. How could I get in touch with you?
Well I'm glad to hear you're interested in discussing it, that's cool. What I'm really hoping we can do is to get a thread going on it to solicit LOTS of input on it.
Unfortunately, this is a topic where I have much more to learn than I have to offer. That is partly why I am interested in it.
However, once we get a good discussion going with a nice variety of ideas thrown onto the table I know that I will begin to see some patterns emerging and my mind will start coming up with some new ideas and fresh insights on the topic.
Also, I think the "jerk" question has been beat to death, but I suspect you may have some new ideas about it. If you want to discuss that, let me know.
That was just the first example that easily came to mind of a topic where non-newbies might want to explore the limitations of currently held rules of thumb.
I agree that it has been beat to death, but most of the beating consists of going back and forth between reasons why women are attracted to jerks versus claims that they're not. Very little of the material on it is aimed at really "dissecting" jerk behavior to definitively isolate the "active ingredient".
I just thought of a funny sig:
"I AM the active ingredient"
DeepBlue
"A man's sig file should never be longer than his post."
Gipper
------------------
"There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know you're money, and that you want to party.
-Trent, from "Swingers"
"Keep your girlfriend away from me,
Just advice I’m giving you for free,
Wanna have every thing I see,
So keep your girlfriend away from me..."
-Local H, from "Here Comes The Zoo"
Ha! Kodak, I'm a good bit older than most everyone here. Thanks for the thought.
And you are more than welcome to participate. I hope you read this entire thread to see where I'm coming from. I love the newbies; I just don't want you guys to go through the same crap I did.
Gipper
------------------
"There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know you're money, and that you want to party.
-Trent, from "Swingers"
"Keep your girlfriend away from me,
Just advice I’m giving you for free,
Wanna have every thing I see,
So keep your girlfriend away from me..."
-Local H, from "Here Comes The Zoo"
Gipper wrote:
Outstanding. Ready when you are, DB.
Okay, I'll give it shot. First in the main forum. I'll start a thread containing some ideas to get things started. The thread will probably get bogged down with guys telling us to not get hung up on finding "that special woman" but we may also get some input from other guys who share an interest in this issue. At some point we can always invite those people to continue the thread in the "Anything Else" enclave.
I want to put some thought into it first so that I have some good starter stuff to get it rolling, and I'll post the thread at some point in the next couple of days. Maybe over the weekend if I don't get to it sooner.
How does that sound?
DeepBlue
Damn Gipper...I wan't even remotely annoyed when I made that post. Why did you think I was "going off"? I seriously wasn't. I'm just a blunt person.
Yes, I'm quite often one of the people involved in those derailed threads. It doesn't happen because I start posting off topic. It happens because other people can't handle opinions that differ from their own and feel compelled to attack me personally rather than what it was I said. I'm human, and when someone does that it is very hard not to respond to that. I have made an effort to stop the bickering many times. And just like it takes two to start the problem it takes two to end it.
Now I'm off topic, but I felt I needed to answer your post. (See how it happens.)
Yes, I'm a bit more hardened since I took a break. You can read my "Pet Peeves" on the Main Forum to find the clues as to why that is the case.
Okay, let's just end this off discussion before it leads out in left field.
I'm not angry at all.
Yes, I'm quite often one of the people involved in those derailed threads. It doesn't happen because I start posting off topic. It happens because other people can't handle opinions that differ from their own and feel compelled to attack me personally rather than what it was I said. I'm human, and when someone does that it is very hard not to respond to that. I have made an effort to stop the bickering many times. And just like it takes two to start the problem it takes two to end it.
Now I'm off topic, but I felt I needed to answer your post. (See how it happens.)
Yes, I'm a bit more hardened since I took a break. You can read my "Pet Peeves" on the Main Forum to find the clues as to why that is the case.
Okay, let's just end this off discussion before it leads out in left field.
I'm not angry at all.
Gipper, I didn't name any names in my post. Hell, the post wasn't even made to you.
You misunderstood the point I was trying to make about newbies learning to make their own choices...and perhaps I could have spelled it out a little clearer.
Providing the information for the guys is good. Deciding for them which information they can and can't read, listen to or be exposed to is not helpful in their quest for confidence. If less of that is done there would be less cases of those somewhat annoying "HELP! What do I do NOW?" posts. These guys would better benefit from an environment that didn't encourage them to NEED that kind of help. Sheltering the newbies, protecting them...whatever anyone calls it...it teaches them to rely too much on the other people on this site and too little on themselves. I don't see that as a good thing.
I DID say that I know this treatment of the newbies is WELL-INTENDED. I just don't think the down side of it is being recognized.
Gip & Wyld
How come you guys constantly get into arguments with each other? I don't get it.
I'm as opinionated as anybody, and you've probably seen that I will argue my points into the ground if I have to. And in spite of that, I never get into arguments with EITHER of you.
So how can it be that you guys are always getting into arguments with EACH OTHER? I can't figure that out.
I don't mean to say that it's a problem or anything, I'm just curious. It's like some kind of puzzle.
DeepBlue
How come you guys constantly get into arguments with each other? I don't get it.
I'm as opinionated as anybody, and you've probably seen that I will argue my points into the ground if I have to. And in spite of that, I never get into arguments with EITHER of you.
So how can it be that you guys are always getting into arguments with EACH OTHER? I can't figure that out.
I don't mean to say that it's a problem or anything, I'm just curious. It's like some kind of puzzle.
DeepBlue
With Gipper it stems back to a debate about single mothers. I am a single mother. Some of the guys on the thread were referring to children as "baggage" and I took issue with that. From there it led to a heated debate about the perceptions of the whole "don't date single mothers" rule. I argued that it was fine to not want to date single mothers but that it was out of line to disguise ones own preferences by claiming that all single mothers have "baggage". And that in reality, she has a child and the guy has the issue with it. I think I also said that I don't want an uncircumcised man, but I don't go around calling his foreskin "baggage". Anyhow, it went over about as well as an elephant pissing on a flat rock. It turned into a bit of a riot and Gipper blew a fuse over how active and heated the thread got and essentially chewed only my arse out for it. He's been snippy towards me eversince, when he even posts directly to me. Usually he just says "Ignore Wyldfire. She derails every thread she posts on."
I don't dislike him or anything and I do try to be courteous. I think sometimes he takes what I say to mean something that it doesn't.
[This message has been edited by Wyldfire (edited 04-05-2002).]
I don't dislike him or anything and I do try to be courteous. I think sometimes he takes what I say to mean something that it doesn't.
[This message has been edited by Wyldfire (edited 04-05-2002).]
Gipper...
1) That particular post you made upset me enough to leave this site for a couple of months.
2) I ALWAYS make my initial post on topic. Things go off on a tangent after another poster insults me personally rather than argues the point. I take more flack on this forum than any other poster, and the fact that I sometimes respond to those attacks is pretty natural. Most men here would react the same way I have under the same circumstances. Overall I believe I have exhibited a tremendous amount of restraint.
3) I don't like conflict or try to create it. I do, however, like to debate. I was a competitive debater many moons ago in high school, winning several state level competitions. I enjoy debate, not conflict. There is a difference.
With that, I will no longer respond to anything off topic you say on this thread from here on out.
1) That particular post you made upset me enough to leave this site for a couple of months.
2) I ALWAYS make my initial post on topic. Things go off on a tangent after another poster insults me personally rather than argues the point. I take more flack on this forum than any other poster, and the fact that I sometimes respond to those attacks is pretty natural. Most men here would react the same way I have under the same circumstances. Overall I believe I have exhibited a tremendous amount of restraint.
3) I don't like conflict or try to create it. I do, however, like to debate. I was a competitive debater many moons ago in high school, winning several state level competitions. I enjoy debate, not conflict. There is a difference.
With that, I will no longer respond to anything off topic you say on this thread from here on out.