Got into big fight with the wife.

[Trader]

Women cheat on feelings, they even emotionally cheat without sex. Men place much less feelings in sex.

True, but this is irrelevant

I guess I cant really say which one is worse. Its all relative. But in the old school premiss of the man being the provider I would think its much more acceptable for a man to cheat than a woman.

A man is a leader, and leaders set the bar. That's why when men cheat (thus failing to lead), the relationship is irreparably damaged. The leader has fallen, and when the leader falls, the marriage, business, or sports team rolls over.

Obviously the repercussion of a *follower* (the girl) cheating is smaller.

This does not justify cheating on either side, but to believe that when men cheat it is less damaging is naive at best, and completely self-delusional at worst.

Note, if you are not a man, but just a boy like the OP, then I really don't expect much, I don't really expect you to get it. After all, you are just a boy.

 

[1 Bad Dude]

Trader, you are wrong here. If you(the husband here) are the great catch it doesn't matter how much muscles or looks a co-worker of hers has. She won't touch him. She's already got the best at home. You'll drop her off at the airport or kiss her goodbye when she leaves the house and she'll be missing you before she boards the plane. Obviously she didn't have very much confidence in her own great-catch-ness if she was threatened by a plane ride. Actually, now that I think about it, this goes to show just how easily women can be seduced. She knows this and doesn't trust her husband not to seduce and screw the co-worker.

His(the OP) only issue was that he didn't immediately react to his wife with the same intensity she "LOST IT ON" him with. He had to take control of that outburst and immediately put her back in her place. Of course, the childish insecure outburst described is the direct result of the poor marriage and should never happen in a healthy one. These insecurities should have been gotten over long before any vows were taken.

Don't even get me started on your absurdly foolish views on cheating and which gender doing it s more damaging.

 

[Stagger Lee]

But still even if the male was the leader, that doesn't necessarily mean that his behavior has to be x,y, and z and not a, b and c. Just because a man does something or fails to do something does not make it worse for him to do so than for a female to. when a man cheats (not saying it is right) it can be just for sex. when a woman cheats usually she is about to branch swing or may cuckold the husband. Leader or follower its worse for a woman to cheat.

 

[Trader]

Trader, you are wrong here. If you(the husband here) are the great catch it doesn't matter how much muscles or looks a co-worker of hers has. She won't touch him. She's already got the best at home. You'll drop her off at the airport or kiss her goodbye when she leaves the house and she'll be missing you before she boards the plane. Obviously she didn't have very much confidence in her own great-catch-ness if she was threatened by a plane ride. Actually, now that I think about it, this goes to show just how easily women can be seduced. She knows this and doesn't trust her husband not to seduce and screw the co-worker.

What you have said is completely irrelevant to what I was talking about, and is not even remotely related enough to be called a *tangent.*

Don't even get me started on your absurdly foolish views on cheating and which gender doing it s more damaging.

You should get started, because so far you have said absolutely nothing.

But still even if the male was the leader, that doesn't necessarily mean that his behavior has to be x,y, and z and not a, b and c. Just because a man does something or fails to do something does not make it worse for him to do so than for a female to. when a man cheats (not saying it is right) it can be just for sex. when a woman cheats usually she is about to branch swing or may cuckold the husband. Leader or follower its worse for a woman to cheat.

I understand what you are saying that a man may just cheat only for the physical sex, but a girl usually cheats to branch swing.

We disagree on the *weights* assigned to the particular arguments - in other words, our value systems differ greatly.

I agree with your argument in principle, but I place very little weight to it.

I place heavy weight on the leadership argument - which I have delineated above.

At first, I was surprised that you placed such little *weight* on the leadership argument, but then I realized there was nothing surprising about it at all. After all, girls have kept echoing: 'There are few *real men* to be found.'

Turns out they were right.

 

[SoldMySoul]

This thread has gotten crazy!!! It was a legitimate post, but some are really getting into a pissing contest about it.
IMO, and I did not tell leftyloosey this at first, is to REALLY think about the situation from all angles. Deep down if his wife would have done it, he would have been a little mad about it.

It would not make him less of a man to be mad about it. I am thinking there is more going on than what is being told. Let's do the math: Attractive co worker and wife has met her; He goes out of his way to get seating arrangements for the two of them; Lefty did not seem to discount the fact at a hint that he wants to hit it.
It all seems very suspicious to me...

Cheating is a bad thing period!!! I am ashamed to admit that I have done it and it is pretty awful to do. Sure some say you are man and do not take crap from her (wife) about it and I can get that. I do not see this ending well at all.

Maybe that plane ride alone or without wife knowing would have been better. Seems to me something is wrong. Someone pointed out that even some buff dude were going with her on a plane ride she should still be faithful because you are her man.... something along those lines; I am not agreeing to that at all. GIVEN the right circumstances she will be just as faithful/ unfaithful as you.

Just maybe Lefty plans on being a good fellow and not helping the demise of his marriage and his wife was OVER reacting in a serious way. That is something OP will have to decide on his own because he lives with her and knows their history better than we do.

 

[1 Bad Dude]

What you have said is completely irrelevant to what I was talking about, and is not even remotely related enough to be called a *tangent.*

My mistake. I got your posts confused with SoldMySoul's posts. It's be nice if we had avatars here.

You should get started, because so far you have said absolutely nothing.

Then I will. The psychological aspects of cheating should be far more devastating to women than men, yes. We don't really want to commit to one women anyway. But, the real world aspects(not the in your head stuff) of cheating are actually more devastating for men and his genetic offspring with the wife. If a man impregnates a women who is not his wife, he can drop her like a hot potato and there really isn't anything the mistress can do. If, however, the woman he committed to came home pregnant with another mans child and deceived the husband into believing it was his. He now diverts/devotes resources to this child, which essentially robs them from his true(genetic) offspring.

 

[jophil28]

Lefty- why the F didn't you make the seating arrangements with your coworker at the the office when you wife was not around.

The way you did it was guaranteed to rankle the missus.

A little forethought next time perhaps ?

 

[1 Bad Dude]

Lefty- why the F didn't you make the seating arrangements with your coworker at the the office when you wife was not around.

The way you did it was guaranteed to rankle the missus.

A little forethought next time perhaps ?

I was thinking the same thing myself when I was reading SoldMySoul's last post. It's likely he was making this arrangement on the down low in the basement/garage/bathroom away from the wife if she overheard it. Seriously, just do this stuff out in the open right in front of them and you'll have much less trouble.

 

[Chromeo]

I really dont see any problem sitting next to your coworker you are going on a business meeting with. Obviously you will want to discuss business.

But keep it in the office. Basically you showed off your hot coworker to your wife then seemed over anxious to "sit next to the pretty girl on the bus" so to speak.

Trader, as for what your saying I understand a leader leads by example. I think most cheating inevitably destroys a committed relationship, jealousy trust issues ect. But I dont understand how you say a womans cheating has less repercussions.

do you mean a man will drop a cheating wife and move on? or Men place less emotion into sex so it is not such a big deal? Where as a woman would be emotionally distraught by a cheating husband.

I just dont see it, followers are supposed to be loyal to the leader, a leader makes decisions and sticks by them right or wrong as they may be, and followers should obey to that decision.

I dont even really agree with calling women followers of man, I do not expect to marry a woman who is nothing more than a follower.

 

[samspade]

The reason why is because a girl looks up to her man, and when the man she reveres does something so low and crass, it breaks the spell he has on her.

LMAO. Where did you get this, Loveshack?

Note, if you are not a man, but just a boy like the OP, then I really don't expect much, I don't really expect you to get it. After all, you are just a boy.

Special pleading/shaming.

LL - like jophil said, you should have made the arrangements at the office.

Personally I would prefer to sit alone and relax on the flight. You sit together, then you're just going to talk about work some more.

 

[Trader]

The reason why is because a girl looks up to her man, and when the man she reveres does something so low and crass, it breaks the spell he has on her.

LMAO. Where did you get this, Loveshack?

So if you disagree, then you must believe that it is the man who looks up to the girl. What a sorry state of affairs your life is in.

 

[Trader]

Trader my friend,

I really believe you are misguided here.

I absolutely agree that men should be the leader. But that does not mean that the man is at "greater fault" for cheating than a woman would be should she start cheating. You would have every feminist in the world cheering you on for saying that.

I did not use the term *greater fault.* I simply stated that the *repercussions* of a man cheating are greater because girls look to him as a role model.

The fact of the matter is, a leader's actions (both good and bad) have a much more powerful effect than a follower.

That's why in the golden days, a general would often fight on the front lines instead of hiding in the rear and directing action. The general knew that by setting a courageous example for other soliders to see, they would be inspired to fight harder.

By the way, feminists would not cheer for that, since a leader not only has extra responsibility, he also has extra decision making power (which feminists hate)

All Men should be leaders in their relationships, but never forget that not all women are capable of healthy relationships, and certainly many of them are not capable of being a respectful competent follower.

Agreed, and a leader also has discernment. If a girl cannot be *fixed* he leaves her

 

[Trader]

What we have here is a fundamental value difference.

You basically argue that a man's "honor" has more value than his DNA does.

This is based on your alluding that the repurcussions of his actions hurt the woman's perception, while the repurcussions of her actions hurt his genetic line.

My own values are that cuckolding is a far greater crime, simply because it is the equivalent to micro-genocide.

Is a man's life and his DNA the most important thing in this world?

To the coward yes.

To the courageous, no, since he is willing to put his life on the line for higher causes.

Yes, you have your own value system, and I have mine. We'll see who is right in the end.

 

[Trader]

Is a man's life and his DNA the most important thing in this world?

To the coward yes.

To the courageous, no, since he is willing to put his life on the line for higher causes.

Ok, I was willing to entertain your value system until you reached the insults.

It's not personal

A coward is someone who will never put his life on the line for anything other than himself. It is what it is. I am just the messenger, the fact that you are a coward, that's on you.

The lines you are using are the same type of weaponry used by religious zealots. Your "higher cause" is a lame crutch for your inability to attack my reasoning in comparing the two value systems.

If you believe there are no *higher causes* that is your personal belief.

I assigned the cost to violating my value system and you respond not by showing the cost to an individual when your values are violated.

Of course there is a cost to violating my value system, which is failing to be a leader, this was implicit in our discussion. I believe the cost to violating my value system is so great, I refuse to violate it.

But instead you respond by attacking me personally

It's not about you per se.

and using nebulous responses such as "higher causes". Such wording is the weapon of choice for those who run through life on emotions as opposed to reason.

A higher cause in this example would be: 'to fulfill your role as a leader and to be a role model' again, this was implicit in our discussion

If this is your reasoning process, then you are much more like a woman than you realize.

Far from it. A girl would never sacrifice herself for a higher cause, after all it's all about her. Your values are the ones that are most in line with that of a girl.

 

[Trader]

You have a gross miscalculation that if someone believes their legacy is important, then they must be a coward.

I never said that. I said:

Is a man's life and his DNA the most important thing in this world?

To the coward yes.

To the courageous, no, since he is willing to put his life on the line for higher causes.

I never said that a man's legacy is unimportant per se, I said the error lies in making your legacy the MOST important the world. When you make your legacy the most important thing in the world, then you will never sacrifice your legacy for anything else, even if that *anything else* is much more valuable, which makes you a coward.

The problem with your "higher cause" value is that ANY statement can be boxed up and packages with that label.

True, that's why it is important to figure out what is worth dying for, and what is not - this is called wisdom.

My "Higher Cause" is to populate the earth with intelligent reasonable people most like myself. <---- See how easy it is to do that? Guess that means I am not a coward after all. Hell I'd even die for it, that makes me even more courageous.

Then you are no longer a coward, but you still don't have any wisdom.

 

[samspade]

So if you disagree, then you must believe that it is the man who looks up to the girl. What a sorry state of affairs your life is in.

That's a false dichotomy, over-presumptuous, and a little immature, Trader. Try using logic and reason to make your arguments.

Anyway this thread isn't about the OP cheating, so enough platitudes. The bottom line is he should have taken care of the arrangements away from his wife, or accepted sitting alone on the flight.

 

[Trader]

The reason why is because a girl looks up to her man, and when the man she reveres does something so low and crass, it breaks the spell he has on her.

LMAO. Where did you get this, Loveshack?

So if you disagree, then you must believe that it is the man who looks up to the girl. What a sorry state of affairs your life is in.

That's a false dichotomy, over-presumptuous, and a little immature, Trader. Try using logic and reason to make your arguments.

It's not even close to a false dichotomy. In every human interaction, there is a leader who is looked up to, and a follower. Thus we talk about things such as *holding the frame.* One person has the frame (the leader), the other person submits to the frame (follower).

I really don't think that you are that stupid (but I could be wrong). My guess is that you just want to argue for the sake for your ego.

 

[maqnetik]

women mirror their man-- if you cant control yourself shell soon follow suit. practice what you preach because you cant have your cake and eat it too. thats part of being a MAN. if you wanted to be single you should have been HONEST about it right from the beginning and NOT gotten MARRIED.

 

[samspade]

It's not even close to a false dichotomy. In every human interaction, there is a leader who is looked up to, and a follower. Thus we talk about things such as *holding the frame.* One person has the frame (the leader), the other person submits to the frame (follower).

I really don't think that you are that stupid (but I could be wrong). My guess is that you just want to argue for the sake for your ego.

You misunderstood me. I agree with you on the frame notion. The false dichotomy is "if you disagree, then you must believe..." This is the same kind of b.s. that feminists engage in - "if you don't agree with us, you must be a misogynist." See also, "Either you are for us, or against us."

That, in addition to this nugget,

I don't really expect you to get it. After all, you are just a boy.

are examples of weak tactics when trying to prove your point.

It's okay to disagree with someone, but acting like you have the moral and intellectual high ground when you cannot otherwise support your opinions, seriously weakens your point of view.

 

[frivolousz21]

I have not posted here in a long time.

and now I remember why.

I am no where close to perfect..and this website was a true blessing for me.

And I think after I left...I realized the purpose of this place.

I also realized that getting a real life answer to a problem is hard to come by..the amount of lies and KBJing is a lot more then I realized years ago.

As far as the OP.

to say that you would not care...would mean you do not love your wife....or that your some super hard ass that is not attached to human emotions.

You think getting jealous makes you some beta male? WTF are you talking about. Your a human being you will get jealous..

there is a difference in getting jealous and stating your boundaries then getting jealous and acting like a controlling teenager.

there is nothing wrong with letting your wife know you get jealous..a lot of times healthy jealousy will affirm to her that you do love her and she is your woman.

Of course that also comes with you being a man and leading by example.

if you act like a chump and then are jealous, yeah we all know.

but you are a strong willed man..and get jealous over things that people get jealous over..its not a big deal.

Your wife has every reason to get jealous there.....you should look at it like she gives a ****...

if you wanted to have the hot co-worker sit by you, even if it was for business purposes then you need to do that behind closed doors.

if you want her to sit by you becuase you want to bang her..then you should have the self control to not sit by her and not put yourself in that situation.

now if you say F it to that....then why are you married?

good luck man