Girl prefers the AFC?

[Mr. Goods]

Last month, I went on a date with a HB 7.5 from a class we share. I did a solid job building attraction before the date and felt good about the date itself, but we never went on a second date. I was getting very wishy-washy reactions from her, so I decided to move on. It wasn't a big deal for me, I wasn't crazy about her; we had very little in common. Sharing a class and (of course) having to sit next to her, I couldn't put up the proverbial iron curtain. I play nice for the sake of keeping things normal, but I don't put much effort into the interaction.

Today, my friend wants to take her out to a quick food stop after our class. He knows I don't have a class afterwards, so I was urged into going as well by both of them. My friend is in an LTR and would never cheat, but likes befriending girls for whatever reason (he has several girl friends). However, he is a bit dense and thinks I'm still interested in this girl even though I have clearly stated otherwise countless times, and I act uninterested around her.

So we're eating and talking, and my friend is an extremely straight-shooter. Asks her who she's dating these days. She told us she has been on two dates with a guy from a nearby school. (He goes to one of the top schools in the country, is focusing on a doctorate, and is four years older than us). That's fine...until we caught the description she gave us of him:
-"Nice guy"
-Socially awkward
-"He's sweet"
-Shy
-"Nice guy" (repeated because she said this many times)
-Could be boring at times.

Perhaps it's just me, but she's casually dating an AFC. I'm not at the DJ level yet, but I'm definitely no AFC. My friend felt the same way about this girl's new guy, and wanted to know what makes him so "nice." She said he calls her if he's going to be late. The thing is, most guys do this! It's not unique! Naturally, my friend and I are having a fun time picking away at her for this. We were then surprised to find out she has never been in a relationship (and trust me, she doesn't "get around" either). While I have been on a handful of dates but never been in a real LTR, she might have less dating experience than I do!

While I am not interested in her anymore, I am puzzled at how I couldn't get a second date with a girl with seemingly low standards. It's not what you would call a boost of confidence. It seems she doesn't have much experience (so me being somewhat not experienced either is not a problem...though she doesn't know that). She is casually dating a guy because he is "nice" and "sweet." While I'm a little closer to being more nice than being more of a jerk on the spectrum (I'm closer to the middle), this guy might be the extreme nice guy. He is what this forum scorns against!! At least I feel I have some game, make myself a little bit of challenge and have very good wit/sense of humor.

The scariest part? This wasn't an April Fool's joke.

 

[zekko]

It's a dirty little secret that the pickup gurus don't want you to know: a lot of women do prefer the AFC. And they tell you upfront that the AFC will get the girl in the end. After they are done fvcking and being screwed around by the "jerks" they usually end up marrying the AFC. The gurus will tell you that this is because they settle, but I think it's more because they've gotten smarter, or wiser and more mature.

Think about it, would a girl really want to end up with one of the guys on this forum that post about how they hate women and spend all their time fvcking random girls in clubs? Does that make them alpha?

The other thing I would say is you don't know if this guy is AFC or not. Most girls I know describe their boyfriends as "nice guys", so I wouldn't put much stock in that. "Nice guy" doesn't have the stigma for women that it does here. I don't know if the guys are really nice or the girls are lying or just deluding themselves. Maybe all of the above. In any case, the guy may have qualities that make him valuable. He might be good looking, talented, or whatever.

Anyway, you said yourself you're not very experienced so it's not like she passed up Mystery or Jay Z for this guy. There's probably a lot you can learn yet to up your game.

 

[GetOveIT]

...because they've gotten smarter, or wiser and more mature.

Older and with 13 babies from the jerk too. :rock:

 

[zekko]

Older and with 13 babies from the jerk too.

In which case I won't be dating them.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

Hey bud. That's interesting to say the least. But here's something you should know.

1) An AFC isn't what we think

When a guy is being polite, considerate and easy going, that's not AFC. Average Frustrated Chump is someone who's a flat out coward. A guy can be nice, its just as long as he has fortitude and doesn't take crap, that will be the winner. I can take myself as an example. A lot of women comment that i'm so nice and feel comfortable. But then I'm also dominant with them. I pull them toward me. When we're about to go sit down, i'll place her down. If a random girl asks me to buy them a drink, i'll decline and tell them that they're going to have to earn it.

So maybe the guys who the girls call sweet and nice, aren't AFCs. Maybe they're just easy going.

2) Don't be so concerned if you don't get her

Here's the thing. So what if that particular girl likes chodey, chump guys? She's only one girl. Thats what you got to remember, only ONE girl who isn't special. Remember: There's a million of her, but ONE of you. Find someone who likes the edgier you

3) Girls deep down want a non-AFC guy

I'll take this an example of my own life. Alright, i go up to this girl....i'm being playful, being myself, letting her know i'm into her in a non-platonic way, taking her through the bar...her friends ****block and eventually she plays hard to get. Ok, then this guy has safe conversation, being very nice. Buying her drinks, her friends are having great conversation. He even isolates her and they talk. But guess what? Things die down. But wait a second. Didn't she like him? The thing is, yes...she liked him, but she was attracted to me. The reason is, later on when I was talking to another girl, she looked pretty jealous and didn't care about the other guy. And when i talked to her again, her demeanor changed, she was excited to see me.

But I digress. Women deep down want the guy with edge, not the AFC. I think as long as a guy doesn't take crap from a girl...then he's not an AFC. He's only an AFC if he's a doormat.

It's a dirty little secret that the pickup gurus don't want you to know: a lot of women do prefer the AFC. And they tell you upfront that the AFC will get the girl in the end. After they are done fvcking and being screwed around by the "jerks" they usually end up marrying the AFC. The gurus will tell you that this is because they settle, but I think it's more because they've gotten smarter, or wiser and more mature.

Nah, alot of women DON'T Prefer the AFC deep down. They do indeed settle with him, because they figure "I won't feel hurt or he won't cheat on me" But notice at bars and what not, they're bored as anything or will cheat on him. I think what they're looking for is the thrilling guy who is as stable as the AFC. I think pook said it best. There are three categories, the AFC, the Jerk and the Great Guy. The Great can be as thrilling as the jerk but as reliable as the AFC. Even when women are smarter, wiser and more mature...they want that thrilling guy but who she relax and settle down with. The issue with the AFC is that she gets bored of him, even in marriage.

Think about it, would a girl really want to end up with one of the guys on this forum that post about how they hate women and spend all their time fvcking random girls in clubs? Does that make them alpha?

Actually, sure. Why not? I think a woman would respect a guy more if he admits he is a pickup artist. AFC Adam is a PUA and his wife knows all about what he does, and guess what? While they were dating, they actually grew closer. She was that much more attracted to him cuz of that, but she liked the fact that he was also the "I won't hurt you" type. I think he was seeing multiple girls while he was dating her long distance, and guess what? He let her know and she was cool with it. And in a sense, it is Alpha if you don't care to lose her if she finds out. Women want a player, not a loser. And a player can be a good guy, as long as he's not a lying womanizer.

The other thing I would say is you don't know if this guy is AFC or not. Most girls I know describe their boyfriends as "nice guys", so I wouldn't put much stock in that. "Nice guy" doesn't have the stigma for women that it does here. I don't know if the guys are really nice or the girls are lying or just deluding themselves. Maybe all of the above. In any case, the guy may have qualities that make him valuable. He might be good looking, talented, or whatever.

Exactly. There are some guys who do really with women and they are called Very nice but its only because the guy is fun, easy going and seems fun but at the same time he knows when to be that badass. lol.

Anyway, you said yourself you're not very experienced so it's not like she passed up Mystery or Jay Z for this guy. There's probably a lot you can learn yet to up your game.

So true! Plus, who cares if she likes a chumpish guy if he is. There are alot of more women who deep down prefer the guy who is more thrilling but will settle with a chump only cuz they fear if they date a player, they'll feel hurt. BUT, if your a player and let her know ahead of time that you'd like an open relationship with her, if she's down for it...I think you'll get the best of both worlds. Just a thought .

But back to the matter, most likely...she's just attracted to the outcast type guys. Just find the women who are attracted to the type of guy you are. There's a chance that there are 3% of women in this world who are attracted to your type....thats still ALOT of women, even in a big city! Def look out for them!

 

[Ronnie Poleman]

Completely agree with DonJoseCantosie. Girls NEVER prefer an AFC over someone higher than an AFC. Being polite and gentlemanly are qualities which are rare these days but very desirable. That's not the same as being a clingy, insecure, needy pvssy. A dude who calls a girl if he is going to be late is being polite, as it lets her know he remembers the date, and is still showing up. A dude who calls a girl 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times a day is being an AFC.

Great guys beat jerks hands down, as they are polite and considerate, yet able to stand up for themselves. My roommate who is polite and gentlemanly got a girl in a club who was being pursued by a jerk, who was exposed for being a brainless brute with no manners, the jerk couldn't even hit my roommate because that would prove my roommate's point further, plus a group of girls were won over by my roommate's logic arguments against the jerk.

The guy that the OP talks about is described as being "socially awkward" and "boring", yet she doesn't mind those things because he is polite. Having said that, she would prefer a guy who was socially good as well as charming and polite, so it sounds like she may be settling for an low-standard guy. That again is not a preference for an AFC, that is lowering her standards in a " Socially awkward boring guy is better than no guy" approach.

Focus on being the great guy that Pook talks about on this very website, and you won't need to worry about AFCs, nice guys, or jerks.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

^Exactly. A Great guy would win over the jerk because he's got more skill than the Jerk overall. Most guys who are deep down jerks, they have had past bitterness with women and getting it out of their system. The girls who call the guys "Jerks" aren't necessarily jerks. You know how girls are, they'll say they hate a guy but then be all up on him. Or they'll say "You won't be doing anything with me..." Just mental retardness on their part. lol.

 

[Pathgen]

I believe this:

Girls want to replicate themselves with guys who have the most desirable traits and traits that would cause her offspring to survive. She has to invest a considerable amount of time in a baby (9-months at least) but a man can fuk around for those 9 months and have tons more children.

Because of this they gravitate to men who show powerful traits. Successful jerks tend to be strong, confident, and maybe financially backed up. They show the girls that if they were to get with them their offspring would survive. Jerks are also more exciting, and that is a trait that is good for survival because who wants to associate with boring individuals?

Now of course there are jerks that get no *****. Plenty of them in fact. It is just that nobody really cares. When a nice guy finishes last everyone feels bad for him because he is the nice guy. When a jerk finishes last, who cares he was a jerk?

This guy that she is dating sounds like he is successful in life. He is going to one of the top schools in the country and stuff like that. However, she is giving you a major clue into what is missing. He is boring, shy, and socially awkward. I believe when she said he was nice repeatedly, she really was trying to convince herself that she wanted to date him. I believe that the nice guy doesn't finish last, but in this case he will probably lose the girl to a guy who can prove or front like he is equally successful and leads and exciting life.

You can be a nice guy and show dominate traits. How? By doing whatever you want. If you genuinely are a nice guy, you will still have some limits. If something is bothering you in the relationship you will speak up. If something is bothering you in life you will speak out against it. You will be appreciated as a nice guy, if and only if you genuinely take pleasure in being a nice guy. You aren't doing it to be nice at all.

You can still be exciting if you are nice guy. How? For starters you make your life interesting. You make the sex life interesting. You make her life exciting. Your not afraid to tease her. Your not afraid to touch her. You won't jump at a drop of a hat to what she asks you to do, but you do it for her because you want to do it for her.

You take a look at these PUA type fellas who tell you to be a jerk all the time. They make it seem that you can't get a girl if your a nice guy because it works well for their business model. The truth is there are people who are happily married and the men were never jerks in the relationships.

Don't guys want a girl who can behave herself to the outside world, but are naughty in bed? It is just that the type of men who can do it all are few and far between. They are either on one-end of the spectrum or the other.

 

[zekko]

Actually, sure. Why not? I think a woman would respect a guy more if he admits he is a pickup artist.

I don't think your average woman wants a pickup artist. She wants a guy who's desireable and masculine, a guy who could get other women, but a pickup artist? That's going too far. Even Tyler Durden said a pickup artist is a pretty pathetic thing to be because he takes his identity and validation from being able to pick up random women.

I agree women do not want pvssies. I think we may differ on how we define what an AFC is. Perhaps I confuse the "average guy" with the "average frustrated chump". Because if you define the AFC as a coward and a pvssy, then honestly, I don't see very many of them around. I see a lot of the average guy who has some qualities that are desireable to women, women will like them, but they may also have some AFC qualities in there too, where they try to be romantic or maybe even have a touch of the oneitis. They're quality guys that are attractive to girls but they get hung up on their girlfriends. So are they AFCs?

I see waaaaay more of these guys out and about than the stereotype milquetoast AFC sometimes depicted on this board. And some here think the whole male population outside of the DJs who know "the secrets" are AFCs (probably 90% of all men). So it depends on how you define AFC I guess. But I don't think your dream guy for most girls is a pickup artist.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

I don't think your average woman wants a pickup artist. She wants a guy who's desireable and masculine, a guy who could get other women, but a pickup artist? That's going too far. Even Tyler Durden said a pickup artist is a pretty pathetic thing to be because he takes his identity and validation from being able to pick up random women.

Average looking woman, probably. A HOT woman,I gotta disagree with that. I doubt thats going too far. If the girl can sense that the guy is very good with women, she'll want to pursue him more even if he is a pickup artist.

I remember out in field one time this girl asked if I was a PUA and what not, then she asked which company and then tried to act like "Where gonna try to mess with them" But when i was doing my normal stuff, she was acting just like any other girl. Course sh1t testing the PUA stuff but then feeding it back to her. I didn't get with her by the end of the night but i learned a good deal from that encounter. lol.

Sure, she can try to tell alot of people "I aint going for a pickup artist" Girls say one thing, but do another. Here's the thing, thats what Tyler's problem was. Taking his identity and validation. A pickup artist doesn't have to share that same fate. A PUA can have those same desirable and masculine traits. But i'm talking about more so a PUA who's got his life together and doesn't do such more magic crap lol. I'm talking about a PUA who seems like a natural eventho course the PUA's got the edge because he can "Explain" what he did, while most naturals don't know how to explain or limited in one area. On this forum, we are all pickup artists. A DJ is a pua. We be proud of it. Some guys can be like "I above all that PUA crap!" BS. Your in the community, embrace it...don't deny your birthright in this game unless you don't want to approach random women .

I agree women do not want pvssies. I think we may differ on how we define what an AFC is. Perhaps I confuse the "average guy" with the "average frustrated chump". Because if you define the AFC as a coward and a pvssy, then honestly, I don't see very many of them around.

Go to the club and look at how many guys just stare at hot girls not doing anything. Looks like those are the cowards . I don't buy the "They're not trying to get women and only having fun" Deal.

I see a lot of the average guy who has some qualities that are desireable to women, women will like them, but they may also have some AFC qualities in there too, where they try to be romantic or maybe even have a touch of the oneitis. They're quality guys that are attractive to girls but they get hung up on their girlfriends. So are they AFCs?

I should rephrase my definition. But until they step over...the women won't know that. If you can't go up to a girl, you are a coward in a sense, if you want to talk to her. Even guys in Fraternities outside of a frat house are scared to go up to a little girl. Are they AFCs in general? Probably not but they are still being cowardly in a sense. If a guy did the cold approach route, wasn't for him...and wanted to stick with Social Circles or connections, then sure. Are guys who are able to go up to women ABOVE others though? Absolutely not.

I see waaaaay more of these guys out and about than the stereotype milquetoast AFC sometimes depicted on this board. And some here think the whole male population outside of the DJs who know "the secrets" are AFCs (probably 90% of all men). So it depends on how you define AFC I guess. But I don't think your dream guy for most girls is a pickup artist.

I agree, i see the average joe who's out with friends. Most women WANT a guy who's good with women. A PUA who gets results IS good with women. Even to date them and settle down with. The only issue is Many players are lying womanizers. Now if you take a guy who isn't a lying womanizer but is great with women, that's gold for a woman.

Women flock over celebrities, rock stars, and atheletes because they know other women want them.

Now are ALL women attracted to players? Absolutely not. But a good majority of them want a guy who's good with women. Girls are flip flop so much they don't know what they want half the time to where today's dream can be tomorrow's hell no.

 

[zekko]

Average looking woman, probably. A HOT woman,I gotta disagree with that.

If you're talking about at or near an HB9, you're probably right. Honestly, I've never met a woman who was at or near the HB9 level who was worth anything other than maybe a quick bang. All the ones I've met were clearly ruined from all the male attention they've received. Blame the AFC orbiters if you like.

But i'm talking about more so a PUA who's got his life together and doesn't do such more magic crap lol

Tyler teaches the natural method now, he doesn't do that canned lines/Mystery Method type stuff anymore. I haven't read The Game yet, I want to eventually, just to see what was so "villainous" about him.

Go to the club and look at how many guys just stare at hot girls not doing anything.

I don't go to the club, haven't been to one in years, so you probably see different things than I do. I'm more than twice your age, so it's no surprise we have a different perspective. I've been living with the same girl for the last seven years. But the vast majority of the guys I know who are your age are getting women.

See, the thing is, girls don't stay 23 forever. They grow up and their priorities change. You think just because some guy from this forum goes up to some woman and throws a few negs at her she's going to drop her husband and father of her children just for a quick roll in the hay with the DJ? Yes, a lot of girls will. But a lot of girls won't.

People, including women, are individuals. Pickup gurus would lead you to believe attraction is like a scientific forumula - say the secret words to the girl and she'll follow you anywhere. You can optimize your chances, but there is no formula that will work on every single girl. And that is why I say, yes, some girls will prefer the AFC (or rather, what guys here might call the AFC. A lot of guys here think that if you're not on the DJ forum that automatically makes you AFC).

Now are ALL women attracted to players? Absolutely not. But a good majority of them want a guy who's good with women.

Good with women, yes, but I still don't think most women want a pickup artist. But now we will likely quibble over the definition of a PUA. Not every guy who has the guts to approach a woman is a pickup artist. Guys have been initiating contact with women for years, it's the natural way.

 

[CoolBlue]

Let's see. This guy she's dating is 4 years older than you, is in a top school and is getting a doctorate.

He's probably more mature and level headed than you, more confident as he knows he's one of the top students in the country and also probably has more money or will get more money and power than you in the future.

That's hardly AFC. Not saying he's a master don juan, but he's probably more DJ than you. Being a DJ is not about acting like a childish jerk.

 

[zekko]

He's probably more mature and level headed than you, more confident as he knows he's one of the top students in the country and also probably has more money or will get more money and power than you in the future.

Good point, I missed the part where he was going for his doctorate. Sounds like the guy has a boatload of potential - talk about self improvement. Of course, if you listen to some people on this forum, none of that matters. They think if some guy with "swagger" walks up, she will run off with him and forget all about this guy who has a solid future. Even if the swagger guy has nothing else going for him - because it will make her "gina" tingle.

I'm just being contrary lately because I've been getting a little fed up with the BS side of the community. There's a lot of really good principles and advice here, but there's a lot of garbage too. You have to pick the diamonds out of the mounds of coal.

Anyway, how many times have you seen a post like this? Some girl chooses some other guy, and the poster automatically considers him the AFC, and himself the DJ, just because he reads this forum (nothing against the original poster by the way).

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

If you're talking about at or near an HB9, you're probably right. Honestly, I've never met a woman who was at or near the HB9 level who was worth anything other than maybe a quick bang. All the ones I've met were clearly ruined from all the male attention they've received. Blame the AFC orbiters if you like.

I agree with this. Sadly only a minimal few are worth more than that.

Tyler teaches the natural method now, he doesn't do that canned lines/Mystery Method type stuff anymore. I haven't read The Game yet, I want to eventually, just to see what was so "villainous" about him.

Yea, he's more on the natural side now. He wrote the Blueprint which seems to be quite good. I have to check more of it out. He was villainous in a sense because he tried to get Mystery's students against him cuz of his powerhungryness to be as great as Mystery was. Style used the "Master vs Student" rivalry plot device and it really worked quite well.

I don't go to the club, haven't been to one in years, so you probably see different things than I do. I'm more than twice your age, so it's no surprise we have a different perspective. I've been living with the same girl for the last seven years. But the vast majority of the guys I know who are your age are getting women.

Usually the social connections way. I agree.

See, the thing is, girls don't stay 23 forever. They grow up and their priorities change. You think just because some guy from this forum goes up to some woman and throws a few negs at her she's going to drop her husband and father of her children just for a quick roll in the hay with the DJ? Yes, a lot of girls will. But a lot of girls won't.

That's true but i'm also saying that women want a guy they can settle down with but from time to time want some thrills even as they get older. Problem is the priorities are there but sexually, some women are bored and want things spicened up.

People, including women, are individuals. Pickup gurus would lead you to believe attraction is like a scientific forumula - say the secret words to the girl and she'll follow you anywhere. You can optimize your chances, but there is no formula that will work on every single girl. And that is why I say, yes, some girls will prefer the AFC (or rather, what guys here might call the AFC. A lot of guys here think that if you're not on the DJ forum that automatically makes you AFC).

Definitely not...hell, your not gonna get most of the girls you go up to because of so many factors. I agree, some girls would good for the symp. I should redine my definition: an Average Frustrated Chump is someone who's not doing anything about his life with women and is frustrated about it.

Good with women, yes, but I still don't think most women want a pickup artist. But now we will likely quibble over the definition of a PUA. Not every guy who has the guts to approach a woman is a pickup artist. Guys have been initiating contact with women for years, it's the natural way.

But a playboy can truly do it. Most guys do it half assed. Look at the bar or outside, a guy will just look at a girl but not do anything if he's single and definitely wants to meet her.

I define a Pickup Artist is a guy who sees women and goes up to them in a consistent basis and gets some sort of success in a confident and assured way who learned his knowledge from the "Community" who always doesn't use some big crutch 24/7.

Also, lastly...most women SAY they wouldn't go for one...hell the movie HITCH tried to put that out there but most women deep down I don't think would care ALL that much unless the guy is a boneified liar with her.

And to Zekko and CoolBlue, that doens't matter all THAT much. Too many guys in the USA these days have GREAT credentials but suck when it regards to meeting women. I don't consider them "DJ's". Just cuz the guy has all that stuff doesn't make him more DJ than the topic poster. If the topic creator is Player Hating or hating on the guy cuz he's got the girl, then I would agree. She just so happens to like the guy who may be a little bit on the chumpier side. Thats just what she's probably attracted to.

 

[Scars]

Girls do not prefer the AFC by any means. They just get fvcked over by the jerks, so they go through periods of feeling inadequate, unwanted, unspecial etc..That's where the nice guy comes in and changes these feelings and makes them feel special for the moment. But that's the thing, it's only temporary. As soon as her ego is inflated again she will fvck you over. You may get lucky in this time period, a kiss, perhaps even a lay. But the feelings are only temporary. She still doesn't see you as a man, or the datable type. You're just a temporary convenience for her.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

^+1 REP! Its just a temporary thing and sure, she might still be dating him but she wants something new and better. That's where we come along

 

[Falcon25]

If you're good looking you can get any girl you want. Doesn't matter if you are AFC. They will get rid of you later but you always have an advantage because you are a handsome man.

 

[Jitterbug]

AFC this chap may be, but he's a Bigger Better Deal than you: going to a top school & working on his PhD. IOW, he's the best she can get right now.

If another BBD comes along, she will ditch that guy the same way she ditched you.

Girls don't think Don Juan/AFC or Alpha/Beta like we do here. They think "what's the biggest fattest fish I can catch with what I have?".

 

[CoolBlue]

And to Zekko and CoolBlue, that doens't matter all THAT much. Too many guys in the USA these days have GREAT credentials but suck when it regards to meeting women. I don't consider them "DJ's". Just cuz the guy has all that stuff doesn't make him more DJ than the topic poster. If the topic creator is Player Hating or hating on the guy cuz he's got the girl, then I would agree. She just so happens to like the guy who may be a little bit on the chumpier side. Thats just what she's probably attracted to.

I totally disagree. Being a pickup artist just means you're better at playing the game and making things work on your favor. But if you have better tools you definitely have the advantage in getting girls. Guys with great credentials just have zero game and don't know how to play his pieces.

I liken it to playing chess. Guys with great game like Mystery are like chess grandmasters. This guys are so good at playing chess they can beat you on equal grounds if you don't know what you are doing. I'm sure Garry Kasparov can beat you even if he gives you a Bishop advantage. But if you give me 2 extra queens I'll probably be able to beat him. Hence you need to acquire material as well as game too.

 

[Heyjose25points]

I totally disagree. Being a pickup artist just means you're better at playing the game and making things work on your favor. But if you have better tools you definitely have the advantage in getting girls. Guys with great credentials just have zero game and don't know how to play his pieces.

And I believe thats what makes the person a good DJ. He went out there, took the needed effort and figured out what to do. Many PUA's already got those tools so its a moot point. Mystery and the like it was their job. Most other guys have got other things going for them. Even if they knew how to use them, the PUA would still beat them because he's got the field experience unless that other guy has been out there as long unless he was in her social circle which would indeed give him the advantage for that particular girl.

This is DonJosecantosie, i reached the post limit for the day on the other account.

And I believe they are DJ's in that sense.