Fighting /Boxing/ Martial Arts

[DJintheworks]

How long does it take to get decent enough to defend yourself confidently from a non-pvssy. Im not looking to become mortal combat. I used to weigh 180 fvcked up my elbow doing skull crushers and 8 months later I weigh 150. Id rather train hard to fight than train to get back my 30 pounds of bulk. I was thinking kickboxing. I know their are a million threads out there arguing which one is better. I just want something that I can become capable in (without training with monks) and is practical in a real fight (no swan kicks). So how long?

 

[Abnigh9]

I'm not sure if that's the swan kick you're talking about, where you turn your waist, land your back leg up on your opponent's face. If that's the case, then yes swan kick is not effective for you. It's very effective for me, I used it and knocked opponents out before, but I've also knocked out people with regular straight punch to the temple and jumping side-kick. All those flashy kung-fu DO work but you just got to practice (hint hint: at least 20 years to be truly effective in a particular art; otherwise jump around and see what you like).

Now as for what system to take, well, here's my best advice: try all of them.

I tried almost every single art (except the ones in the army reserve and so forth, I couldn't touch em; can't join, they won't allow me) known possible and I have to say my favorite are boxing and sambo. Well more like mixed.

Ok that's my 2c.

 

[Abnigh9]

Originally posted by thechineseGQ
there is no "set" amount of time in which you can master an art form.

Gung Fu... translated....Time and Effort.

Are you Cantonese? Cause that may be how it is translated. In Mandarin it's "Perfection Through Effort".

There is no "set"? I highly doubt you went up in the mountain to see some of the monks as I have. Maybe if you're rich enough or maybe if your parents are willing to lend you some cash, go up there. Train with them.

You don't immediately learn all the fancy moves after you pay them. There's a lot of things they make you do, even if you don't want to cause it doesn't seem right. Like cleaning the toilet or floor.

Then there's BJJ, you can learn all the BJJ in 90 classes and you get all the tech.

But if you mean to MASTER it, now that's different. I'm just talking about regular learning since this kid just want to LEARN to defend himself and see what he likes, not what he devote his life to.

 

[DJintheworks]

yeah i don't want to train with monks. I just want to defend myself easily. I don't want to compete or master anything. If my roomate and I have the same level of fight experience now...how long till I can kick his @ss without breaking a sweat. (note, I don't even have a roomate....just giving an example)

 

[Nightwing]

BJJ and muay thai are the most readily applicable arts out there. you might also consider boxing too.

Dont worry too much about kung fu and karate, most of those schools dont teach you properly anyway for the type of fighting you want to do--unless youre trying to fight in a point contact match.

 

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by thechineseGQ
That is an ignorant statement. That is not true at all. You are stereotyping these styles as ineffective for actual combat!

You can learn all sorts of styles you want... but if you don't know how to apply it, someone is going beats the crap out of you.

You're statement disgusts me. It's plain ignorance.

LOL!!! Say what you want to say, but from my years of experience, that's how most of the martial art schools here in the USA teach a student. It's not so much about strereotyping, it's just about what I've seen from these types of schools and instructors in general, not to mention experiences told to me by other people wherever I go in this country.

The problem with the teachings of a lot of these systems is that they get too much theory and try to plug it into reality -which is why consequently why some practioners say that their techniques didnt work or you have the stories of a martial art black belt getting their azz kicked by some punk on the street.

Secondly, MOST MARTIAL ART SCHOOLS ARE OUT TO MAKE MONEY!!! They're trying to market thier product out to the children and, in turn, get the parents in there as well to make $$$$. So what most martial art schools will do is talk about how the training they provide will help with confidence, patience, disipline, self esteem and fitness. However you never notice that most of these schools will never discuss the other aspect of martial arts in that they can also teach thier students to maim, cripple or kill if they have to at a moments notice. To the average person looking for a martial art school to go to, that last statement scares a lot of people and gives them the idea that martial arts is something violent and barbaric, so they leave that aspect out when they're marketing thier product, and in thier training curriculm as well.

...and in this day of political correctness and feminization of society, if a martial art school focused on the dynamics and true nature of what makes up a real fight, and how to handle the situation, most schools wouldnt last very long. Not to mention, you would have only a handful of students who would actually be dedicated. Want proof?? Look at how much hell mixed martial artists and event like UFC have caught here in the USA by people who dont have no understanding about the sport.

So what do a lot of martial art schools do?? Instead of making martial artists, they make MARTIAL ATHLETES. They focus all your training on point contact tournaments and busting boards that dont hit you back so that you can win a plastic trophy and get you to believe that you're the shyt when youre really not. Don't get me wrong, if youre joining a martial art school for that type of competition that's fine, but if youre looking for a schoo that deals how to handle a real fight situation, taking full contact shots...etc then the martial artist that wants to focus on the mortal combat aspect of their style is shyt out of luck because breeching the topic of the reality violence and aggression to defuse a situation is shunned by most people in our society nor is it pollitically correct.


...that's what I mean when I say that most martial art schools dont teach their students properly....

 

[Abnigh9]

thechineseGQ

You make it sound like you have a lot of experience in both ring AND street. Mind sharing us your experience and stories?

Otherwise, keep it low. Nightwing seems to know and I know from experience, fought in several rings and over 47 street fights.
Never lost... except in rings but street fights all perfect.

Enough to prove I can join a team.

Btw, I'm not sure if I can do this but wanna meet up? I have a small ring setup in my house near London and maybe you can go there if you want. We'll fight (I got three pairs, three size boxing gloves and a whole set of equipment) and I want you to show me how effective these art you advocate are.

Rules:
No kicking in balls or killing. If one of us go limp, stop. The rest, you can TRY hit wherever else you want.

In my opinion, I'll rip you to bloody shred in under 1 minute or 15 seconds.

 

[Abnigh9]

Originally posted by thechineseGQ
Abnigh9

I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else.

My ****yness got you huh?

Well I don't have much to prove anyway, I've proved most of them already anyway.

I'm just implying that what you advocate is mostly useless whether it's someone else's (ignorant) statement or not. Nightwing, on the ugly side, is 100% right, I can dearly say all kung fu and karate that are taught are usless. But I know I'll be wrong so I'm also generalizing like you are except bringing up the cause where I can setup a ring so maybe me and you can meetup and you can prove to me where I'm wrong at. Usually the only thing that is useful is carrying a gun or having fast legs and long lasting lungs.

Edit: If you tell me Kung-Fu is more than 50% useful, I'll give you this, try to kick me in the balls and you lose your heart. I'll pull the trigger and if I can, most criminals, without a second thought will.

 

[Ian1983]

Just jumping in to say;
Abnigh9, don't go around 'challaging' people over the net, not even jokingly, not big. (btw street fights are a 1 hit wonder, no skill needed, just suitably drunk opponents-which is usually the case in street fights).
....How close to London are you?
Personally I'm a MT guy and KB'er (if all goes to plan fighting in bethnul green on the 28th March I think it is, nothing big though)

To the thread maker, I suggest you find a good gym and train there. Good means they have fighters that get some where in the rankings. This could be any style, system, as long as they get out and try and use what they got, instead of staying in their own little cocoon and saying their styles the best and most deadly which is why they don't compete (which usually happens with the self defense stylists...WC could be one example), thats just generally BS.

Oh, and someone look up Kyokoshin Karate and tell me you can get away with generalising easily.
(I didn't bother reading all of the thread, hopefully I didn't tread on any toes).

 

[Abnigh9]

So then read all of the thread. You're repeating most of what Nightwing and I said.
I didn't go around challenging everybody on the thread, only thechinesegq because I'm trying to tell him that most of the school (typically in NY) sucks.
And I'm not joking neither, I'm serious about inviting him if he can.

You need to read the thread before you start calling out names. It's very irritating and ignorant even if you state it that you didn't read the entire thing.

Well if you mean my gym, it's in Sutton.
Kyokoshin Karate is good but consider this, you know how many other style of karate there is? There's no Kyokoshin Karate (at least not good ones) in NY or GA. Those are the two areas where I attend school when I can. Now as for DJintheWorks, he wants to DEFEND HIMSELF, not learn to fight in rings. No doubt he can be conditioned, but not against knife or guns. You are NO WAY In hell gonna do a clinch or get in a guard when a guy wants to stab you to death.

I'm moving out back to Germany. So make it this week or I'm gone. Mm... the smell of gunfires..

About the street fights, not all are one hits. How many street fight have you had? 1 or 2 don't count. And skills are needed. Imagine two people, one with some boxing skills, hits pretty hard. The other one with no skill at all, hits hard too.

Who would you bet your money on? Obviously the first one I mentioned, with skills.

And not all street fight are the case of drunkards. Some are out of anger, stealing gfs, gang warfare, whatever you can think of.

I think you should go out more, travel out to the world more. Go somewhere to.. say Brazil. See the crimes for yourself.

Edit1: Don't make this on a personal level but.. please spell "challenging" correctly. And what do you mean "not big"??

Edit2: About the KKarate, I've beaten some of the black belts, so they're not too good neither. The only people or mostly the people I have problems with are people who are BJJers or hardcore wrestler. They're either too strong in grip or too slippery.
Imagine Royce Gracie... how slippery would that be.. oh boy lol.

 

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by thechineseGQ
Nightwing

I agree with you about most schools in this day of age are out there just for marketing... that little extra cash in their pockets. Although I can understand your statement based on your own personal experiences...one still can't make a statement like that..generalizing all kung fu or karate schools as impratical. There are schools that do teach techniques for combat. Although not to condole violence, but rather for the purpose of self defense if a situation ever comes up that one can't walk away from.

I dont think that martial arts like Kung Fu and Karate are impractical, I just think that the mindset in regards to how the schools are ran are based more from a marketing and business standpoint that is centered around money that takes away from the true essense of the art of many martial art styles. That's my primary gripe when I make blanket statements like that.

Martial arts anymore just seems more so as a "martial arts industry".

 

[Make-A-Way]

Look DJinthemaking...... I practice a style of kungfu that is very practical. How do I know? Because it doesn't deal with a lot of bull shyt that's why. Whenever I would fight with my friends(never seriously) I would use my moves. I've been practicing for 3 years from my teacher who goes to the university as I. It's a very long story on how I use my moves but lets just say that you can take boxing and still get the shyt beat out of you. In fact if you dont have the right teacher, the right method, or even the right training you won't get great results.
On a final note.... do your research(try out different styles that fit your body type and personality), realize that it takes time and MUCH MUCH MUCH practice to get really good at systematic fighting(you can can get good at street fighting, but I believe its best you save yourself some painful memories and bad times by learning from someone who's been there.) If you want more details just ask and I'll gladly give you more. Until next time.....this is your friendly neighborhood Make A Way saying peace out.

 

[Ian1983]

sorry about that, been/am busy, final year of uni and all.
Still kinda haven't read the thread, looks like it'll take a while, just saw what I thought was a internet warrior and jumped to conclusions (thats crap happens a lot, both the internet thing and me jumping). Sorry about that.

The KKarate boys are usually very good, but as with a lot of things, generalisations are bad, I generally go to gyms that have a good national and international reputation and spar with them, so I assume a lot. Generally if they have a belt (and wear the thing like its a trophy), in my experience, their crap...fighters anyway, don't get me wrong, some of the guys have good personalities. I base everything on the MT philosophy, even if your a international fighter, you don't go around saying anything about it, your just A fighter.

Spent a LITTLE time in ecuador trekking around, slums and rainforest. The fighting thing always depends on the situation, but the guy was saying something along the lines of self defense, I didn't think gang warfare would have come into it for him, generally a drunk starting something while he's having a night out would be more applicable.

Not taking anything personal....I'm studying physics BECAUSE I can't spell .

Not big as in its a waste of time.....stupid to do it

 

[tactic]

Strenght is nothing compared to speed and reflex.

 

[Knockout King]

Originally posted by tactic
Strenght is nothing compared to speed and reflex.

Yeah, so I guess boxing has weight classes for every 6 lbs and MMA has them for every 15-20 because the heavy weights wouldn't stand a chance against the light weight's speed and reflexes right?

 

[Tareef]

speed and reflex are nothing compared to timing.

Every area of a martial artist should be honed. What most people fail to realise is that when a martial art is created it was used in combat, And there for the art in question would have been more well rounded in the past. The Martial artist would have had to know grappling, striking, and internal exercises(chi/ki) which I don't think anyone has mentioned.

For whatever reason some of these styles eventually focused on certain aspects of a pre-existing style and "refined" them into a brand new style to suit their needs. This is great for the master and perhaps the first couple of generations after. Slowly and surely the emphasis on the other aspects of the style fade.

So if you had a grappling striking internal kungfu to begin with for example, you end up with a teacher who was really good with striking, and decided to focus on that. He and his students would have still known about how to use grappling and internal aspects because this master would have taught his students "effective" ways to combat grappling or internal aspects of martial arts.

Because he understands the basic mechanics of the other aspects he can freely discard them. Because he can still use them if he needs to.

Most schools today maintain that focus of striking or grappling or internal nature, with out considering the other aspects to be a well rounded style.

So when you fight someone who grappels and you're blocks are somehow caught and get you trapped and you ask why your style wasn't effective, it's probably due to the lack of understanding one would get from grappeling.

 

[tactic]

All that goes into the Reflex category. Speed IS timing. It's when you have quick reflex to block the moves.


Knockout King -

Erm, in boxing you need strenght and speed because that's how the games goes. To win, you gotta' take the guy out with your strenght but with speed you can dodge the punches and make them exhausted. How do you think Mike Tyson once defeated some dude easily without even trying in the first few rounds?

 

[Abnigh9]

Mike Tyson... ooh that brother is fast! Man you should've seen him in real life if you think the video is fast.

 

[alakazam]

I train in a non-profit Karate dojo, and the calibre of training is very high. We do practical training, stuff like being attacked by multiple oponents and so on. The main focus of the teaching is to be able to defend yourself in a real-life situation.

That being said, there are a LOT of McDojo's out there, but to call Karate and Kung Fu impractical is just silly. Why have the been arround for centuries if they are impractical? Perhaps the majority of the teaching today is poor, but the art itself has practical application if taught properly.

 

[Abnigh9]

Originally posted by tactic
All that goes into the Reflex category. Speed IS timing. It's when you have quick reflex to block the moves.


Knockout King -

Erm, in boxing you need strenght and speed because that's how the games goes. To win, you gotta' take the guy out with your strenght but with speed you can dodge the punches and make them exhausted. How do you think Mike Tyson once defeated some dude easily without even trying in the first few rounds?

You basically advocated against your own words by saying that. Just so you know Mike Tyson has actual knockout power along with speed that makes him great. In your other post, you're saying speed/timing/etc is everything. It's not.