Decided To Get A Divorce

[samspade]

Sorry to hear that.

Just out of interest, what were your feelings when you went into the marriage? Did you honestly want to marry her or was it more a case of 'I don't want her to leave'?

Do you think you'd ever marry again?

Good luck man.

I wasn't gung ho about getting married at the time. I just didn't want the relationship to end and took the only means available at the time to continue it. Sounds reckless, I know, but it was a calculated risk. As of now I don't regret it.

 

[evan12]

when you dont have kids there is no point for staying with a woman

 

[5string]

My only advice is that when all said and done, take a break from women. Do what you want to do and concentrate on yourself. Seriously, just don't even get involved with them for awhile.

Regardless of how amicable this is, it's still emotional for you. Don't go there with other women and don't get sucked back in by your ex.

You'll know when the time is right.

 

[samspade]

My only advice is that when all said and done, take a break from women. Do what you want to do and concentrate on yourself. Seriously, just don't even get involved with them for awhile.

Regardless of how amicable this is, it's still emotional for you. Don't go there with other women and don't get sucked back in by your ex.

You'll know when the time is right.

That is a great point. It's funny you say that. My wife makes allusions to the "next girl" I'll date, and I think to myself, there won't be anything serious for a long time. She thinks I'm going to branch swing or at least find some new girl, but for me, anything more than a meaningless fling won't do. And even then I'm not thinking of that right now.

 

[5string]

That is a great point. It's funny you say that. My wife makes allusions to the "next girl" I'll date, and I think to myself, there won't be anything serious for a long time. She thinks I'm going to branch swing or at least find some new girl, but for me, anything more than a meaningless fling won't do. And even then I'm not thinking of that right now.

They do say some of the strangest things. Mostly motivated by emotions.

Although my marriage is great, Mrs.5string says sh!t like "you should be married to a 35 yr old." She says stuff like that all the time and it's most always after I pound her really good! :crackup:

 

[AlphaGhost]

OP, do you think one will ever reach a point where that desire goes away?

I find I get those feels everytime I get into a relationship, that feeling of wanting to explore and feeling stuck when I would like to be free... I always blamed it on being young.. Does a man every reach a point where he is content with what he has?

 

[samspade]

OP, do you think one will ever reach a point where that desire goes away?

I find I get those feels everytime I get into a relationship, that feeling of wanting to explore and feeling stuck when I would like to be free... I always blamed it on being young.. Does a man every reach a point where he is content with what he has?

It's difficult to say. My only advice is to take care of the feelings and desires you have RIGHT NOW. If it's exploration, then explore. If it's to settle and have kids, then do that. It doesn't make any sense to plan for how you might feel 30 years from now. Tomorrow is guaranteed to no one. Choose the option that will give you the most happiness. Your desires may change with time; change along with them.

 

[AlphaGhost]

Thanks for that

 

[DMSR76]

I'm sorry to hear about your split, Sam. I've always enjoyed reading your insight and advice on the forum, so I especially empathize with the situation. I'm not married, but I often experience similar feelings in my LTR.

I think it helps quite a bit that your wife is Brazilian. She comes across as having a maturity that is almost unheard of in American-born women.

 

[AW1983]

Sam,

Wow man! I have always seen you as one of the more level-headed insightful posters here, so I'm sure you gave this a lot of thought and are doing the right thing.

I did the same thing a few years back, and she was an exemplary wife, but it had to be done. I got married real young and was feeling suffocated and it slowly but surely started breeding resentment. It was one of the hardest choices I ever made and I labored over it for months, almost a year. But I knew the restlessness would only get worse. Now I'm a few years out, and no regrets man. Everyone I knew was shocked when I did it, but only you know what's best for you man.

The guilt might catch up to you though, so make sure you've got some good friends or family on standby. I mercilessly smashed the heart of a good woman and it haunted me for a while...

 

[samspade]

Sam,

Wow man! I have always seen you as one of the more level-headed insightful posters here, so I'm sure you gave this a lot of thought and are doing the right thing.

I did the same thing a few years back, and she was an exemplary wife, but it had to be done. I got married real young and was feeling suffocated and it slowly but surely started breeding resentment. It was one of the hardest choices I ever made and I labored over it for months, almost a year. But I knew the restlessness would only get worse. Now I'm a few years out, and no regrets man. Everyone I knew was shocked when I did it, but only you know what's best for you man.

The guilt might catch up to you though, so make sure you've got some good friends or family on standby. I mercilessly smashed the heart of a good woman and it haunted me for a while...

You sound a lot like me, except that I didn't get married young (34). Also, although the wife is sad, she insists that I not think of her as a victim, and she says she doesn't see me as bad for what I did. Still - it was difficult.

 

[Boilermaker]

Have to be a tough time. I don't have anything to say, but to reassure you that as your invisible friends, we are here to support you.

Your point about being happy "right now" is a very deep one,

best of luck...

 

[romanticman]

Man I envy your strength to do what you did instead of spending a whole lifetime with someone who does not make you want to stay married. It is a huge admission and wow I admire your guts. Good luck brother

 

[Aristippus]

samspade,

I can understand where you're coming from. Even if you're married to a good woman, the very nature of marriage limits your freedom and women are very dependent. Even the so-called independent women are very dependent on a man in just about every area. Couple this with a strong desire for solitude and marriage can become constricting. You can also begin to feel a bit "crowded".

The thing is, for me, the paradox is, I'm extremely affectionate with my woman and at the same time, I also need my space and alone time. It's like 2 extremes. We will continually display affection to each other and I enjoy that. The affection part I enjoy and can't get enough of. At the same time, when I need to be alone, I NEED to be alone.

I think part of it is the fact that women tend to become annoying and go into an emotional roller coaster, so the highs are nice but then she will inevitably freak out over something and although the affection part is nice, you get tired of the drama that is woman, and you need to get the f*ck away and breathe. You enjoy the affections and go from that, to the polar opposite of "get the f*ck away from me". And that negative extreme is usually because the woman starts doing or saying or acting in ways that get on your nerves. I'm talking about even the good women.

It's like when a baby cries. Babies cry. Babies get emotional. You have to feed babies and clean up after them. You have to watch them and make sure they don't hurt themselves. You're responsible for them. They're not evil. They are what they are and you might love the baby. But it's f*cking tiring, draining, and it limits your freedom. To have a woman, even a good one, is demanding and time-consuming. She might love you and you might lover her, but in the end you're responsible for her. And you'll have to deal with her irrational emotions and her fickle nature. You'll have to tell her "no" a lot. The other option is to simply do whatever she wants all of the time. And that's no way to live.

Sure, the sex might be great. Sure, the affections are wonderful. Sure, you might love each other. But the constant demands put on the man to manage the household, to keep his woman's behaviors in check, the constant need to steer things in the direction they need to go and the constant bombardment of requests to do or have things that are not feasible to do at the time, is draining. I'm not even talking about wanting extravagant things. I'm talking about being nickled and dimed into a worse financial situation the way you would be if you bought every little cheap, shiny object that caught a toddler's eye. And most of the time when that toddler grabs an object you have to tell him no and put the item back on the shelf. Just the act of hearing the request and going through the motions of putting the object back and saying "no." gets old. It's not always about love. Sometimes it's about whether or not you want to be depended on so much all of the time.

 

[samspade]

samspade,

I can understand where you're coming from. Even if you're married to a good woman, the very nature of marriage limits your freedom and women are very dependent. Even the so-called independent women are very dependent on a man in just about every area. Couple this with a strong desire for solitude and marriage can become constricting. You can also begin to feel a bit "crowded".

The thing is, for me, the paradox is, I'm extremely affectionate with my woman and at the same time, I also need my space and alone time. It's like 2 extremes. We will continually display affection to each other and I enjoy that. The affection part I enjoy and can't get enough of. At the same time, when I need to be alone, I NEED to be alone.

I think part of it is the fact that women tend to become annoying and go into an emotional roller coaster, so the highs are nice but then she will inevitably freak out over something and although the affection part is nice, you get tired of the drama that is woman, and you need to get the f*ck away and breathe. You enjoy the affections and go from that, to the polar opposite of "get the f*ck away from me". And that negative extreme is usually because the woman starts doing or saying or acting in ways that get on your nerves. I'm talking about even the good women.

It's like when a baby cries. Babies cry. Babies get emotional. You have to feed babies and clean up after them. You have to watch them and make sure they don't hurt themselves. You're responsible for them. They're not evil. They are what they are and you might love the baby. But it's f*cking tiring, draining, and it limits your freedom. To have a woman, even a good one, is demanding and time-consuming. She might love you and you might lover her, but in the end you're responsible for her. And you'll have to deal with her irrational emotions and her fickle nature. You'll have to tell her "no" a lot. The other option is to simply do whatever she wants all of the time. And that's no way to live.

Sure, the sex might be great. Sure, the affections are wonderful. Sure, you might love each other. But the constant demands put on the man to manage the household, to keep his woman's behaviors in check, the constant need to steer things in the direction they need to go and the constant bombardment of requests to do or have things that are not feasible to do at the time, is draining. I'm not even talking about wanting extravagant things. I'm talking about being nickled and dimed into a worse financial situation the way you would be if you bought every little cheap, shiny object that caught a toddler's eye. And most of the time when that toddler grabs an object you have to tell him no and put the item back on the shelf. Just the act of hearing the request and going through the motions of putting the object back and saying "no." gets old. It's not always about love. Sometimes it's about whether or not you want to be depended on so much all of the time.

Excellent points.

A big part of the initial guilt I felt was because my wife is terrific. Of course there were moments when I wanted her as far away from me as possible, but as you said that's part of marriage. She, however, is not into solitude. She grew up in a more traditional (family-oriented) setting in Brazil. Adults stay with their parents until they marry there, as an example. I like that kind of old-world mentality, but all the same, I'm an American, and we grow up here with a lot of personal space. Check out a baby alone in his crib in his huge bedroom some time and you'll see what I mean. (Just make sure the baby belongs to someone you know or you may be arrested.)

In some ways I thought I'd hit a jackpot. Voluntary cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. Plenty of sex. All of this without question. Stays hot and in shape. And she isn't extravagant. She saves coupons and shops at thrift stores. Heck she got ME to curb my spending.

There were differences, of course. I won't go into them, since I don't mean to sound like I'm trashing her, and they were minor. But they were sufficient to change me a little - to restrain me. I admit it, I felt a little tamed and domesticated. Not henpecked, just boxed in, by my own doing, really. I wasn't "out there" any more - and I don't mean seducing. I mean just being out there - my own man, meeting my own challenges.

Your analogy on babies crying is spot on. I realize a man has to be 100% invested in marriage just like he has to be 100% invested in children. I wasn't 100%. So if i can't give everything, I feel like I'm cheating her and the marriage, when she's giving what seems like her all. She deserves a guy who'll reciprocate. And I deserve to pursue my own happiness.

 

[samspade]

I think it helps quite a bit that your wife is Brazilian. She comes across as having a maturity that is almost unheard of in American-born women.

I know the American women vs. foreign women topic has been done to death, but I do believe if I ever marry again (way down the road), I'll do my harvesting in a country like Brazil again. The women do have a certain maturity and desire to please men, worn on their sleeves. It's charming. That and there's an amazing sexuality to them. In fact at some point I will go back there just to explore the country (and women) more, but for now I need a break from Brazil.

 

[Colossus]

Yo Sam,

Great to read this thread and your progress. I'm actually surprised how cool everyone has been. I half-expected a storm of "i-told-you-so's".

I'm really learning a lot from you guys who have a few years on me. Your experience Sam has sort of confirmed some of my misgivings on entering into marriage, and Aristippus' post blew my mind. The grass really isn't greener on the other side, and you really need to be 100% invested and committed to a marriage for it to prosper.

Regarding the Brazilian thing, you probably knew I was in an LTR with Brazilian woman before grad school. She used to say to me all the time how isolated Americans made themselves. It's just a different culture down there, very communal and family-focused. She thought it was odd how we would eat alone, or need "alone time", or have social gatherings for an hour or two then go home. With them it's an all-day or all-night affair. But they were all really happy people, her and her friends.

The thing I learned from being with her is that yes, there are some differences that set South American women apart from ours, in a very good way. BUT---a woman is a woman the world over. I dont care how much lip service she pays to her "independence" or what magical country she is from, every single woman on earth wants to belong to someone at the end of the day, and they are largely dependent creatures. Even when all their needs are met they can be annoying, and when they arent they can make your life downright miserable. I think this is why we feel stifled in relationships sometimes. I know I do. I love the affections, but fvck man, sometimes I just cant abide having someone constantly at my side, talking and planning and needing. I need to breathe and center myself.

I think until a man is 100% ready to give up certain freedoms and be needed most of the time, he should remain single. And all relationships go down this road eventually, but as a single guy you have more leverage and can bail without serious consequences.

 

[zekko]

In the end, it all came back to this: I felt happier about being single than about being married.

This is a good example of what happens with women when they decide to get divorced, except from the male perspective.

When they get married, it seems like a good idea. It fits well with where they are at that point in their lives. Then time goes on, and they get bored. They get restless. They wonder what else is out there. They wonder what they might be missing. What once seemed like a good idea has now become a trap. Maybe they've met someone new, maybe they're listening to their friends who go out clubbing every week, or maybe they just want a change.

But women file for divorce more than twice as often as men. Why that is I'm not sure. Maybe it's because they are more likely to listen to their emotions. Maybe it's because they are more used to having options. Maybe it's because they tend to have stronger social support systems. Maybe it's because they are rewarded for it financially rather than penalized. Maybe it's a combination of all of the above.

Seems to me we can't be demonizing women for being quick to abandon their husbands while at the same time saying "Good for you, Sam, only you know what's right for you".

I can't advocate marriage in this day and age because of the disposable nature of what it has become. My solution, rather than the plate spinning and pump and dumping this forum usually promotes, has simply been to shack up, since I live in a state with no common law marriage. Ten years on, and so far so good on that account. I can see that might not be for everybody, however.

 

[AW1983]

Aristippus, man what a post, repped. These are all things I realized from my recently ended LTR. Sure it feels a little empty in your place on some nights, but the other 23 hours of the day I feel like I'm walking on air without that constant "presence" (don't want to say burden, but that too at times).

Seems to me we can't be demonizing women for being quick to abandon their husbands while at the same time saying "Good for you, Sam, only you know what's right for you".

You know, I thought about that too when I first read the OP. But you know what? Some guys are just bitter they got left on their azz and let themselves get there (emotionally/financially vulnerable). If I married someone and eventually they don't want to be with me anymore: there's the door. There would already be a prenup in place and another girl is right around the corner. Not one tear shed for spilled milk. That's who I am, and when you know who you are and what you're about, it really doesn't matter what some impulsive creature does because you're good either way.

 

[zekko]

Some guys are just bitter they got left on their azz and let themselves get there (emotionally/financially vulnerable). If I married someone and eventually they don't want to be with me anymore: there's the door. There would already be a prenup in place and another girl is right around the corner. Not one tear shed for spilled milk. That's who I am, and when you know who you are and what you're about, it really doesn't matter what some impulsive creature does because you're good either way.

Well, I tend to agree with your basic attitude. If you don't want to be with me, there's the door. But if that's the case, why would anyone ever get married in the first place? If you want children I could see it, I guess, although that just creates more risk for financial punishment.

On the other hand, I don't care for how marriage has become such a disposable arrangement either. Seems like anyone can now opt out on a whim, and they go into it knowing that. That's why I always say I don't believe marriage exists anymore, not in the form that I knew it growing up anyway. Seems like someone should bear some responsibility for killing it, but maybe it's just one of those things.

Regarding Aristippus' post, that woman he's describing sounds very high maintenance. I like my solitude and private time also, but my wife/girlfriend and I have always worked different enough hours to provide me with enough time to myself to keep me satisfied.