Attribute vs Technique game, why some can't succeed

[DonRaul]

I heard a argument discussion about Attribute centric people (David D'angelo) vs Technique centric (Mystery) in one of Style's phone recordings. As I listen to it, it got me thinking a lot about the success I have seen in my self and in others. I realized how much of a connection these two really have. A revelation if you will.

Let me take you through a guide of how my game is developing. From the start I was pretty interesting person, not a bad looking guy, tall, sociable. My game though was running at a 1-10% efficiency. I played the numbers game and succeed somewhat but I think my looks and rhythm had more to do with it than my actual game. Out of my successes, 80% of them came from dancing. I then started to wonder, how the hell are these guys with practically no rhythm and many times no style getting with all these hot women. How come I am not the king of the jungle!? or in other words "How do these white guys do it!?"

I was on a mission. I had a lot of the attributes mentioned through Don Juan, books and other places online I had been reading since High School. I was ****y and funny before David did his first seminar on it. I was good at keeping a relationship thanks to this but only once I get a relationship going. I also failed at them once I gave in like most of us do. But why in the world was my success ratio so low? My answer was finally given when I discovered the likes of Mystery, and Style. The missing piece to my puzzle. The techniques! DHVs, Negs, Openers, Time constraints, gimmicks, gambits and so on.

Let me remind you of the 4 stages of learning:

1. Unconscious Incompetence
2. Conscious Incompetence
3. Conscious Competence
4. Unconscious Competence

To me, when I first started using techniques and routines, I was in the Conscious Incompetence stage. Once I learned these well enough I began the Conscious Competence stage of the techniques phase. However even though I know what I have to do there is still so much to remember and we can only keep around 7 things in our head at one time (proved through experiments, + or - 2). Eye contact, body language, smile, IOD, calibrate, routine, rinse and repeat. I'm now feeling that these techniques are becoming natural and automatic as they are engraved into my subconscious mind. The missing attributes required are now sinking in (funny, confident, of higher value, strength, adaptable etc...).

The key to attraction are most definitely the Attributes that make the Alpha male but the techniques are the drivers that not only demonstrate those sought out attributes but internalize them to what you call self, your automatic machine, the bottom part of the iceberg, the unconscious that represents thee. It has taken me years to try and become this attribute rich person but without techniques it's been a very long and painful process. Hopefully you don't repeat those same mistakes.

 

[DonGorgon]

Lol..

 

[Jukeboxhero]

Lol..

What? You don't agree with him?

 

[DonRaul]

Lol..

Thank you for your well thought out comment. After reading the rest of your comments here on DJ Forums, I must ask, are you 12?

 

[Nexus Polaris]

Good post. I'm still suck on 2. Conscious incompetence. It's frustrating as shìt.

 

[LostAndConfused]

Stage 1 for life baby.

 

[Maxtro]

What stage is knowing about the techniques (DHVs, Negs, Openers, Time constraints, gimmicks, gambits) but never using them? I never think, hey it's a hot girl I need to neg her, then do a palm read then leave with a false time constraint. I might try those things out later but they feel too phony and not me, at this stage.

Right now I only do what feels comfortable to me and my main focus is on improving inner game.

 

[DonRaul]

What stage is knowing about the techniques (DHVs, Negs, Openers, Time constraints, gimmicks, gambits) but never using them? I never think, hey it's a hot girl I need to neg her, then do a palm read then leave with a false time constraint. I might try those things out later but they feel too phony and not me, at this stage.

Well then your attraction (if you are highly successful with women) is coming from attributes you already have. These techniques may be embedded into you personality. For example, are you playful? do you tease women? These are techniques that become natural once you reach the 4th stage.

Right now I only do what feels comfortable to me and my main focus is on improving inner game.

This is the whole point of my post. I have been focusing on my inner game for years and my game has improved only moderately.

Here is a good comparison. Imagine trying to become a Master in Martial Arts. One teacher tells you the attributes of a Master is Speed, Confidence, Strength, wisdom etc.... Now go on and become this master!

Another more practical teacher tells you, Here are some techniques. Practice these exercises day in and day out. After you have mastered these and they are part of you subconscious then you will be a master!

Both provide you with theory of course.

The student who follows the latter path will succeed at a much faster rate. It is easy to sit there and say this is what you should aim to have (as most so call experts advertise), it is a lot harder to come out with techniques that demonstrate that attribute. The student that follows the first path is doomed to a slower learning curve as he develops his own techniques and wonders why his success is so poor.

 

[DonRaul]

Krazyboy,

To answer your point, let me first quote myself

The key to attraction are most definitely the Attributes that make the Alpha male but the techniques are the drivers that not only demonstrate those sought out attributes but internalize them to what you call self

You agree with me that the attributes are the key. However you misunderstand what Techniques really are. Techniques are the exercises. When you say a person who develops speed and strength but how did he develop these attributes? Did he run after chickens and lift weights? Well guess what? running after chickens and lifting weigths are techniques not direct fighting techniques but techniques nonetheless.

The guy who perfected the techniques would have acquire the attribute, and with the right technique at a much faster rate. Therefore he would also be strong and fast. What I'm saying is that a lot of Gurus just give you attributes but you dont just magically gain them. You have to work them into yourself. You need the exercises. You can come up with your own but that is wasteful as others have already done the work for you. Many here even in DJForums have taken years and years and have still not mastered it. I myselft read so many books on attraction, communication and influence but have only recently seen the light. If I go to a Kung Fu master, he will give me his own drills and exercises which he believes will improve my attributes. He will give me the techniques that will seem to give me wisdom in the fighting arena.

I agree that when a person with no attributes tries these techniques, he will fail miserably. Why? Because he in the Conscious Incompetence stage. An attribute you already have is one attribute you do not have to worry about. If you are confident then you may not need to watch your tone or body language but you still need to watch what you say and do. Where you move your hands. How fast you escalate kino. etc. I myself tend to be overly aggressive with women without noticing but I try to correct it. Is hard to keep track of all of these but only if you are self correcting can you improve them and store them into your subconscious as they become attributes.

 

[DonRaul]

Just heard a few of D'angelo's Mastery tapes. It seems he's own the same path but he sounds too much like a Self Help guru and spends hours speaking about your senses and unconscious.

 

[Poonani Maker]

I just shift my d1ck with my inner thighs when in the presence of a woman. Believe me, they can sense peripherally my balls shifting to the forefront of my legs. I know that when I leave, they subconsciously will begin to visualize what was underneath my pants when they were looking down. Very subtle.

 

[potato]

Perhaps the reason some fail while others succeed wonderfully is that elements beyond the techniques is what is really behind attraction and everything else. To me, guys that can’t get women either have low self esteem, are socially inept, and or physically unattractive.

Take an average guy with low self esteem and he will say, “I can’t get a woman, I don’t know what to say.” Give him something to say and he’ll do fine, his self esteem will rise.

But take someone who is physically unattractive and socially inept and they will be seen as annoying and any techniques you teach them incapable of surmounting their shortcomings.

Nature has a way of filtering out the less desired mutations of organisms while building up its more beneficial variables. Sometimes nature is stronger than any techniques.

 

[DonRaul]

Poonani Maker, you should write a book on this. Just image "Ball Shifting for dummies: get any women you desire" in Barnes and Nobles everywhere.