Am I missing something - Women and Money

[MatureDJ]

... a girl that said “I just clicked with him” and got married, but I know her very well and believe me the $20m he had, had I lot to do with that “clicking” and not that he was short without much hair.

I love how "chemistry" works with women.

 

[Jeffst1980]

What else strikes me as interesting is that all her boyfriends, I am probably the least materialistic and unwilling to spend like its 1999...yet she gave it up much quicker than she did with all the others.

This is key. The guys that believe you need money to attract girls have it right but also horribly wrong. It works, but that is AFC thinking. If a relationship is based SOLELY on a man's ability to provide, it's easy for the woman to dissociate and view the man as an easily replaced object.

If you attract a woman and refuse to spend outside your means, you give her the litmus test as far as intentions are concerned. You may lose a couple but only the ones you wouldn't want to keep anyway.

The power of attraction is such that it allows women to rationalize away any misgivings they have about you. When you stick to your convictions, it's attractive as well. But, if you allow yourself to be bullied into spending money on her, it may make her temporarily happy but you'll be punished for it in the long run.

I don't buy my girlfriend much outside of birthdays, xmas, etc. I don't take her out to extravagant dinners. We split bills more often than not, even though I earn more than her. All her previous boyfriends spoiled her, and she reminds me of this often. However, she still wants to be with me and not them.

Now, if I couldn't support myself or had no ability to generate a comfortable income, I'd have a problem at some point. Women eventually reach a point where they care more about settling down and raising a family than even feeling ATTRACTED. But, I do reasonably well and have good prospects for the future; I just don't spend money extravagantly.

For every guy that empties his wallet out of fear of losing his woman, another guy is getting laid for free. Emotional currency is stronger than the US dollar.

 

[jophil28]

For every guy that empties his wallet out of fear of losing his woman, another guy is getting laid for free. Emotional currency is stronger than the US dollar.

A classic statement!

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Its a weak statement based on wishful thinking.

Maybe what separates those with money from those who dont have it is that they understand the value of time and personal emotional investment too. Time spent chasing pvssy is time not spent earning. Wage slaves are rarely wealthy people! If you have a typical 9-5 job with a good paycheck the chances are you are never going to understand the dynamic of wealth and women because you are not wealthy.

Your money makes her horny in the same way that your good body or good looks would. Its a biological driver. Money is attractive. Women seek out men that can provide. End of story. That does not mean that you run out and buy her jewellery or a brand new car! It does not mean you have to treat her to fancy dinners! Your ability to provide is not for her alone, its for her potential offspring. They are hard wired to find god providers because raising children from conception to adulthood is a massive drain on resources that she cannot acquire on her own! They are physically driven to seek out men like this.

It is AFC to spend money ON women thinking they will like you more for it. That is weak behaviour and its important not to confuse the two. Women are attracted to traits. Dominance, power, wealth, confidence, good looks. Normally if you are wealthy you possess four out of five of those traits off the bat. Thats 80% of the checklist fellas. If you are in decent shape and fairly good looking with some money in your pocket? If you are not wealthy but are given enough time to display the traits women look for you will be successful with women. The problem is without the fat wallet this requires a TIME INVESTMENT AND AN EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT. Which is often not going to happen unless she finds you physically attractive in the first place.

I sound like a stuck record on this forum at times. But I am dead serious when I say that if you want to see what effect wealth has on women go to a country where the average man cant provide what you can. Women unaffected by feminism and the "modern day sickness of materialism" (ya, as if people wanted to live like peasants 200 years ago) who are traditional in every sense of the word, will walk over hot coals just to spend time with you. They are almost mercenary in the way they go about it.

Its also important to make the distinction between women when you discuss wealth. You will rarely find an ugly gold digger. You get the delusional ones, who are the product of feminism and its sense of entitlement more than anything else, but they are almost always smoking hot. A 7 is not going to have the stringent requirements that a 10 will have because she does not have the same bargaining power. It really is that simple.

The hotter the women, the more traits you need to posses that women find attractive. The hotter the women, the better those traits need to be relative to the other men that are available to her.

 

[Jeffst1980]

Its also important to make the distinction between women when you discuss wealth. You will rarely find an ugly gold digger. You get the delusional ones, who are the product of feminism and its sense of entitlement more than anything else, but they are almost always smoking hot. A 7 is not going to have the stringent requirements that a 10 will have because she does not have the same bargaining power. It really is that simple.

The hotter the women, the more traits you need to posses that women find attractive. The hotter the women, the better those traits need to be relative to the other men that are available to her.

This is only true on a very large scale with a very large sample size. Individually, though, every 10 is different and every 7 is different. I know some 10s that are sleeping with my poor derelict artist friends, and 7s that are engaged to rich dudes. To make it seem like there's a direct correlation at the individual level is wayy reductionist, and, after all, we live our lives at the individual level.

If women subconsciously evaluated each and every guy on the sum of the traits you speak of and calculate a verdict of attraction based on those traits, they would be the most logical beings on the planet. Hell, just being on this forum will show you that MEN fail to think logically about these things. Otherwise, we wouldn't have guys desperately trying to get back with their solid 6 ex single mom gf.

On the individual level, women are going to be attracted to guys that stimulate them emotionally. Attraction is a visceral thing. Sure, all those traits will be typically FOUND in the guys that women find attractive, but they aren't as necessary as one might initially think. Also, once a women has high interest in a guy, she is essentially off the market for others until her interest in him wanes. You don't see women with high interest in a guy suddenly 180 when they see another man in a Porsche. Interest level does not drop overnight or instantaneously. The women that constantly chase wealth tend to be women dissatisfied with their current situation, nothing more.



Being sick on a weekend= too much sosuave for me! What's the post limit these days?

 

[jophil28]

They are hard wired to find god providers because raising children from conception to adulthood is a massive drain on resources that she cannot acquire on her own! They are physically driven to seek out men like this.

Nice theory, and widely believed, no doubt, just like the 'best genes' theory.
But like most pop theories that emerge from evolutionary
psych, it is only true of some woman some of the time.

Look around the social landscape and observe how many young women who have married recently, have done so to "good providers"..Very few I would suggest. It is much more common that women marry men for other reasons than his demonstrated wealth or his ability to guarantee provisions for her and her future offspring.
Women just 'fall in love' and get married, many times to functionally unsuitable men who never fulfil their own potential and ultimately perform poorly as husbands, and even worse fathers. Perhaps there is another pop psych theory to explain why so many women make such awful choices.

Furthermore, I can report, from personal dating experience, that women in their 40s and older , are just as materialistic, greedy and grasping as some younger women are.
These older woman are hardly seeking "good providers" to guarantee supply for their future children.
Many of these older woman are wealthy in their own right ( thanks to a generous Family Law court ) and then often seek relationships with older men tp "take care of them" , These woman frequently seek to leech off the guy and have him pay her expenses while she quarantines her own money.

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Nice theory, and widely believed, no doubt, just like the 'best genes' theory.
But like most pop theories that emerge from evolutionary
psych, it is only true of some woman some of the time.

Jophil, its not that I dont respect your point of view, I just think that to discount basic human biology and drivers based on what you know about women is incredibly misguided. People WISH women were not attracted to wealth and look for anecdotal examples of cases where wealth played no part in a womans attraction. The only women who dont care about the size of your wallet OR the ability you have to provide for her one day are the average looking women who dont have as many options.

Women are attracted to specific traits in men. The entire premise of "game" is to create the the illusion of those traits which women find attractive. Women are attracted to high status men and money is one of the largest indicators of status. Its just the way it is. Wealth is by no means the ONLY trait women find attractive, but wealth does display many of the traits that women find attractive in men, over and above just our ability to provide.

We are attracted to beautiful women because they are fertile. They are attracted to good looking men because they are healthy and virile. More so, they are attracted to men who can provide! Its why you often hear how woman will share a successful man while they ignore a single chump. It why even in this day and age, men still keep harems. We dont call them harems anymore, we now call them "plates"

Look around the social landscape and observe how many young women who have married recently, have done so to "good providers"..Very few I would suggest. It is much more common that women marry men for other reasons than his demonstrated wealth or his ability to guarantee provisions for her and her future offspring.

Women just 'fall in love' and get married, many times to functionally unsuitable men who never fulfil their own potential and ultimately perform poorly as husbands, and even worse fathers. Perhaps there is another pop psych theory to explain why so many women make such awful choices.

And yet with that comes a 50% divorce rate of which 70% who file first are women. Clearly they marry for love, clearly they are not happy when the feel good chemicals dissipate and their is no substance to their attraction bar infatuation. But Im going to come back to this in a second...

Furthermore, I can report, from personal dating experience, that women in their 40s and older , are just as materialistic, greedy and grasping as some younger women are.

These older woman are hardly seeking "good providers" to guarantee supply for their future children.

Many of these older woman are wealthy in their own right ( thanks to a generous Family Law court ) and then often seek relationships with older men tp "take care of them" , These woman frequently seek to leech off the guy and have him pay her expenses while she quarantines her own money.

The assumption that women are attracted to wealthy men BY CHOICE is exactly why we disagree on this. Just like I cant help looking at a nice pair of tits, they cant help but swoon when a wealthy man chats them up.

Its not a concious decision. Its not a psychological preference. Its an outright base instinct. Its why even a 40 year old hag is chasing the man with money. Its in them like its in you to look at that hot 18 year old that walked past you.

Once again, only in fvcked up western cultures do you see young women marrying young men in larger numbers then younger women marrying older men. Almost every other culture in the world you are going to find the same situation. Young, hot women marrying older men. Why? Because older men are more stable and can provide for them. Again, not a conscious decision that they make, its just the way it is.

If it was a concious decision, then NO MAN over 40 in any western culture is going to be fvcking women under 25. Yet this still happens doesnt it? Why is that? Why are hot young women going to **** older men in the first place?

Because those men posses the traits which they find attractive. We just need her to be hot. They have a laundry list.

Do you honestly think that a 30 year old woman is going to fvck a 52 year old man because he is well read? Because he is witty? Because he has kept himself in decent shape? Give me a break. She fvcks you because you have your sh1t together. Chances are, you have a little more money in your pocket, you dont tolerate as much of her crap, you lead, more people respect you as an authority because of your age.

Traits that she finds attractive.

 

[synergy1]

This is a great line so I will post it again for posterity.

For every guy that empties his wallet out of fear of losing his woman, another guy is getting laid for free. Emotional currency is stronger than the US dollar.

My room mate has been sort of dating on and off a women. She isn't from this country, but has the same expectations as women here. In fact, one could surmise that she came to the states in order to meet the AFC many of us speak of so she can be taken care of for the rest of her days. My room mate sees eye to eye with me on many matters discussed here, including splitting the bills for women you barely know.

They decided to buy some food for a BBQ and split the bill just this past weekend and was called out for it. He stood his ground despite her temper tantrum though. Its amazing watching the dream world meet reality for some of these women in the 21st century. feminism preaches equality, but its amazing how that equality doesn't involve splitting the bills for a night out. its all expected that the guy does this. My room mate was rather furious at the girl, and has no intentions of ever really starting a relationship ( he gets laid frequently enough).

My girlfriend knows where I stand financially, and we have discussed this extensively. I know as a women, she will continue to prod and pry, but I continue to stand my ground. This has done nothing to diminish, and might actually amplify her attraction for me. She buys me drinks when we go out, she covers some of the food when we go out and the like.

this all makes me wonder if this would be a different scenario if we were married. Right now there is nothing to lose by staying with me because my money will be mine if I have a job or do not. If I was married, she would have more to lose since "our money" would no longer be what it once was. This dynamic is largely unknown to me, but I postulate that her attraction for me would not maintain similarly to what it is now as a single couple.

 

[jophil28]

The assumption that women are attracted to wealthy men BY CHOICE is exactly why we disagree on this. Just like I cant help looking at a nice pair of tits, they cant help but swoon when a wealthy man chats them up.

Its not a concious decision. Its not a psychological preference. Its an outright base instinct.

MY point was that the pop theory, that you expressed strongly, that women seek out men with resources to provide for future offspring is just too "pop" . And it is not true. I have known a woman to pass up a wealthy guy who wanted to marry her and instead she married the mechanic down at Tires R Us.

I wish I could force-feed some of you guys another twenty five years of intense life experience in one day so that you could speak from your own evidence rather than sermonise us here with someone else's simplistic pulp.

How do you KNOW that "they can't help but swoon?"
I don't know any such thing and I have been around a lot more women for a whole lot longer.

I have seen a group of women in a casino walk away in revulsion when a wealthy man tried to "buy" them drinks and gifts. Those women were in the casino to have some fun..no swooning there.

I have seen a woman pass up a black mercedes C320 rather than date the guy who offered it to her to go to Fiji for two days with him.
NO swooning there either.

I had a woman follow me across three states (and we have BIG states down here ) when I was twenty two and playing rock music and pretending to be studing engineering. She had an older guy who wanted to marry her because she was the local beauty queen and he wanted a trophy wife. She dated him occasionally to fill in the gaps, or when I was neglecting her.
I treated her like crap for six years, never wined and dined her, cheated on her many times, and she still calls me every couple years and cries on the phone even though she has been married twice.

NO swooning over money there Harry.

 

[jophil28]

Jophil,

All things equal, I would bet a woman would choose a rich one over a poor one.

Nobody said it was the single determinant, but it is a factor. Like it or not.

I agree, but all other things are never equal - NEVER.

 

[Unprez]

Its not money guys.. its power , but that usually occurs when u have money..

 

[sodbuster]

All I know is how big their eyes get when we've been talking for awhile and then they find out I'm a Dentist. Now if I lead with that and didn't have the basic attraction at first,it might be different. BUT it does lead to another level of interest on her part.

 

[Colossus]

Not to belabour the point, but on an individual level women are attracted to men who stimulate them emotionally, primarily. On a population level, you start to see different patterns emerge and that's where you get the "benchmark" traits of men who attract a lot of women.

The problem is guys see some semi-fat, well-to-do bald dude with an HB 9.5 and they make all these correlations based purely off that scenario. "Well, she's obviously after his money. See? Guys with money get the hottest women." This is easy to do and we all do it from time to time, but it's also a logical fallacy.

Very good-looking men will attract a lot of women if they carry themselves confidently, more so than your average joe; and the same goes with guys who outwardly convey wealth and power. BUT---this doesnt necessarily mean they're getting the lion's share of hot women. The hallmark characteristic of an AFC is he tries to emulate what traits he perceives women find attractive, not realizing that in doing so he is actually taking a step backwards.

You'll notice, if look at the sexes from sort of a bird's-eye philosophical perspective, that men are the ones who are radically individual, and women are more socially cohesive; less-likely to stray from the herd. Radical individuality is a masculine trait, which is why you find hot women the world around who are seemingly attracted to "types" that you would find preposterous in terms of pulling hot as$.

The point here is that painting all women as (as I coined it) unilateral provision-seekers is really oversimplifying the phenomenon of attraction.

I WILL say that your ability to generate a comfortable income--reliably---is a rate-limiting step when it comes to KEEPING a woman. This goes back to the very biologically masculine trait of a man being able to produce--to be resourceful and generate survival--when the chips are down.

Allegorically speaking I try to think of myself--a Man--as a solid object; an Oak if you will. Women are very fluid and always changing. If you try to conform to their moods and whims you are really undermining what is to be a MAN.


/pulpit speech.

 

[jophil28]

Not to belabour the point, but on an individual level women are attracted to men who stimulate them emotionally, primarily. On a population level, you start to see different patterns emerge and that's where you get the "benchmark" traits of men who attract a lot of women.

And THAT is the point and the truth in one simple sentence. However the complications set in when you realise that the 'mix' of male attractants varies widely from one woman to the next.
The only constant (and it is not really a constant because this is not science) is that women love to be emotionally excited by a man in some way. Collossus said it best in the quote above.

 

[jophil28]

Allegorically speaking I try to think of myself--a Man--as a solid object; an Oak if you will. Women are very fluid and always changing. If you try to conform to their moods and whims you are really undermining what is to be a MAN.

THis is a good point.

And to continue on from this point -
I have seen woman fall for guys who 'conform' to her frame, and convince themselves that they have met Mr Wonderful. Some of these women then marry that guy and live life on a pedestal. Other women exploit the same kind of guy and then drop him in the FriendZone six months later when her attraction tanks. Still others never get to a second date.

There is no universal female response.

 

[Guoy Darko]

I know this might be splitting hairs, but its not so much a reaction as it is a state of mind. She just goes off talking about things I should be doing ( which require money) without thinking about it.

Like what?

 

[countermart]

Do my Porsche test.

How many ugly girls do you see in a Porsche? Believe me it is not many.
As the saying goes, “Money does not buy you love, but it puts you in a strong bargaining position.” You could really also say from the girl’s side, “Looks do not buy you money, but it puts you in a strong bargaining position.”

Working in the financial world perhaps gives you a warped view, blood attracts sharks, monetary environments attract a certain type of shark woman, you cannot just lump all girls into the same basket, but as someone else said, all other things being equal they will run with the money, and believe me the, “I don’t care about money, I only care about love” becomes “I’m going to court to get as much money as possible” in the divorce.

Really, it’s been said over and over again on SS, but the longer I go on with life the more I believe that what a woman says is absolute rubbish most of the time, young guys do not listen to women because they have better things to do, older guys do not listen to women because they have learnt that most of what comes out of their mouth is complete rubbish. All that matters is what they do, how they act, it is the only indicator, the rest is noise. The funny thing is that women are always going on about not being listened to by men, well if their actions matched what they say that might change.

Secondly, the reason that women do not make as much money as men is because they are not natural risk takers. Men naturally take more risks, thus you will see a divergence of rich and lucky risk takers at the top, and at the bottom a mix on broke non-risk takers, or unlucky risk takers. All the talk about lack of opportunity for women is complete crap, women just do not take the same level of risk as men, thus their results end up more in the middle or average strata.

If women are going to get to the same earnings level as men then they are going to have to take more risks and that means dealing with the pain of losing, rejection, of coming back from failure, and all the rest of it. Most women cannot take it, so they wine about how society is so sexist, and set up benefitial legal structures to obtain money that has not been earned by the application of risk or skill/talent (and we let them).

Women are commonly seeking what we would term in the finance sector as a "free carried interest".

Countermart

 

[Zonder]

My girlfriend, while supportive, does not seem to grasp the concept of living within my means. She continually brings up things I should be doing , but don't have the money for.

You've made your original post and 3 follow ups and noone has any clue what you're talking about. Does she make you go to an expensive gym? Does she make you take up expensive hobbies like golfing? Does she want you to go to spas every day? Does she make you hire different hookers three times a week for a threesome? That's the kind of stuff that maybe you should be doing but can't afford to if you're on a tight budget.

It's a whole different story if she wants you to buy stuff for her. You just can't make a generalization that includes all of that and expect an useful answer other than some general woman-bashing.

I just can't see how such an argument that is so "common" could come up. Like if some chick I'm dating suddenly starts a fight about me paying for her trip to Paris or something dumb like that. jophil is right that unless you're married that's more out of line than just about anything I could imagine.